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Topic: Ohio State Nuts at it again
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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 8/16/2019 9:35 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Its not just OSU who seems a bit carried away with trademarking things.

There's an article in today's paper that Rutgers has "asked" a Louisiana high school to change their logo.

Seem Ruston High School used the same now trademarked block "R" as Rutgers.

The article says the school got a "cease and desist " letter about the logo.

First off,Rutgers doesn't exactly set the world on fire with merchandise
sales.
Second,its a high school far removed from RU.

I know a bunch of die hard RU fans.
They all think this is a bit much.
What’s wrong with that? It is the property of Rutgers! Wisconsin Sent same letter to Warren several years ago. IMO, we should do more to protect our Mark as well, we paid a lot of money to design that mark to just give it away.
Rutgers did the right thing in sending that letter. I spent a third of my corporate career at TRW. We were a global, Fortune 500 company with 95,000 employees. We learned of a Manhattan towing service that was calling itself TRW. We wrote a cease and desist letter.

Why? Because trademark law tells us that we need to demonstrate "zealous protection" of trademarks for them to remain enforceable in any litigation.
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BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/16/2019 9:40 AM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
Its not just OSU who seems a bit carried away with trademarking things.

There's an article in today's paper that Rutgers has "asked" a Louisiana high school to change their logo.

Seem Ruston High School used the same now trademarked block "R" as Rutgers.

The article says the school got a "cease and desist " letter about the logo.

First off,Rutgers doesn't exactly set the world on fire with merchandise
sales.
Second,its a high school far removed from RU.

I know a bunch of die hard RU fans.
They all think this is a bit much.
What’s wrong with that? It is the property of Rutgers! Wisconsin Sent same letter to Warren several years ago. IMO, we should do more to protect our Mark as well, we paid a lot of money to design that mark to just give it away.
Rutgers did the right thing in sending that letter. I spent a third of my corporate career at TRW. We were a global, Fortune 500 company with 95,000 employees. We learned of a Manhattan towing service that was calling itself TRW. We wrote a cease and desist letter.

Why? Because trademark law tells us that we need to demonstrate "zealous protection" of trademarks for them to remain enforceable in any litigation.

Exactly, and I’m sure RP’s company would feel the same way if their logo and mark was being used by another business.
OUcats82
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Posted: 8/16/2019 9:53 AM
What's interesting in all of these logo struggles with high schools/other amateur groups and college/pro teams is I know of at least one school that allows for the legal use of their logo or at least did at one time.

I worked as an administrator at a school that is the Cougars. They use the Kansas State power cat as their primary athletic mark.

At the time, K-State actually has an application process for schools to request permission for use. They have since revamped their website so I am not sure where the application/information is located and/or if it's still in place.

Gosh I bet 75% of the teams in Ohio use some variation of a college or pro logo.

My high school was in a conference that had versions of the Louisville Cardinals, Florida Gators (F), Dallas Cowboys, Wisconsin Flying W, Minnesota Vikings, Michigan State.

The school my kids go to uses the LA Ram helmet, logo and word markings on all their logos/uniforms/spirit wear.

Not saying any of this is right, but it consumes a lot of resources I am sure to keep track and shut them down.

The worst instance I have ever heard was when Susan G. Komen came after a little girl in Minnesota who did a Kites for the Cure or something to raise money for breast cancer research. It was a grassroots effort that probably would have yielded a few hundred dollars.
Ohio-The State University

rpbobcat
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Posted: 8/16/2019 11:23 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Exactly, and I’m sure RP’s company would feel the same way if their logo and mark was being used by another business.
I have a small engineering/surveying firm.

We've never had a logo,going back to when my grandfather founded
the company in 1928.

The only thing that is "protected" is our corporation name.

Under New Jersey Law,unless we give up the rights to it,New Jersey will not
allow another company to incorporate with the same name.

In fact,one of the things that's come up with potential buyers of my firm are the rights to the corporate name.

Its never come up with us.
But I always wondered just how "close" they'd allow another company's
name to be to someone else.
Last Edited: 8/16/2019 11:37:27 AM by rpbobcat
rpbobcat
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Posted: 8/16/2019 11:36 AM
OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
What's interesting in all of these logo struggles with high schools/other amateur groups and college/pro teams is I know of at least one school that allows for the legal use of their logo or at least did at one time.

I worked as an administrator at a school that is the Cougars. They use the Kansas State power cat as their primary athletic mark.

At the time, K-State actually has an application process for schools to request permission for use. They have since revamped their website so I am not sure where the application/information is located and/or if it's still in place.

Gosh I bet 75% of the teams in Ohio use some variation of a college or pro logo.

My high school was in a conference that had versions of the Louisville Cardinals, Florida Gators (F), Dallas Cowboys, Wisconsin Flying W, Minnesota Vikings, Michigan State.

The school my kids go to uses the LA Ram helmet, logo and word markings on all their logos/uniforms/spirit wear.

Not saying any of this is right, but it consumes a lot of resources I am sure to keep track and shut them down.

The worst instance I have ever heard was when Susan G. Komen came after a little girl in Minnesota who did a Kites for the Cure or something to raise money for breast cancer research. It was a grassroots effort that probably would have yielded a few hundred dollars.
What bothers me is if,as I posted,the news reports are correct that this high school was using the logo long before Rutgers trademarked it.
Last Edited: 8/16/2019 11:42:58 AM by rpbobcat
gedunkman
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Posted: 8/16/2019 10:30 PM
Maybe they should try to trademark "State." We could support that one, right?
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/16/2019 10:35 PM
gedunkman wrote:expand_more
Maybe they should try to trademark "State." We could support that one, right?
If someone begins selling thousands of Red and Grey shirts with the word State on it, why shouldn’t they get a cut. Same for us if it’s Green and White with OHIO
gedunkman
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Posted: 8/16/2019 10:45 PM
No problem with them getting a cut. Just that they would then be using a name we could approve. Down here in the Carolinas we have both USC and UNC calling themselves, "Carolina." And, NC State sells shirts saying just, "State." They don't try to call themselves "Carolina" like Ohio State calls themselves "Ohio." I once met the great Vern Alden at an alumni event prior to a football game and he spoke a lot about protecting the "Ohio" name. Just suggesting we follow his lead. That's all.
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Posted: 8/17/2019 1:18 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Maybe they should try to trademark "State." We could support that one, right?
If someone begins selling thousands of Red and Grey shirts with the word State on it, why shouldn’t they get a cut. Same for us if it’s Green and White with OHIO
I can name a number of schools that can sell grey t-shirt’s and sweatshirts with a red (even scarlett) “State” on them and no one else is getting a cut. And there is nothing OSU can do about.
Last Edited: 8/17/2019 2:02:14 AM by cc-cat
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/17/2019 6:11 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Maybe they should try to trademark "State." We could support that one, right?
If someone begins selling thousands of Red and Grey shirts with the word State on it, why shouldn’t they get a cut. Same for us if it’s Green and White with OHIO
I can name a number of schools that can sell grey t-shirt’s and sweatshirts with a red (even scarlett) “State” on them and no one else is getting a cut. And there is nothing OSU can do about.
Schools should get a cut, Jim Bob making T’s in his basement and making money off of selling any schools likeness should be paying the school. I don’t care who it is, a brand has value, and that value needs protected.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 8/17/2019 6:17 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Maybe they should try to trademark "State." We could support that one, right?
If someone begins selling thousands of Red and Grey shirts with the word State on it, why shouldn’t they get a cut. Same for us if it’s Green and White with OHIO
I can name a number of schools that can sell grey t-shirt’s and sweatshirts with a red (even scarlett) “State” on them and no one else is getting a cut. And there is nothing OSU can do about.
Schools should get a cut, Jim Bob making T’s in his basement and making money off of selling any schools likeness should be paying the school. I don’t care who it is, a brand has value, and that value needs protected.
Btw, used to be that schools' royalty on sales of licensed merchandise was about 7.5 percent of retail price. I don't know if that has changed.
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cc-cat
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Posted: 8/17/2019 7:05 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Maybe they should try to trademark "State." We could support that one, right?
If someone begins selling thousands of Red and Grey shirts with the word State on it, why shouldn’t they get a cut. Same for us if it’s Green and White with OHIO
I can name a number of schools that can sell grey t-shirt’s and sweatshirts with a red (even scarlett) “State” on them and no one else is getting a cut. And there is nothing OSU can do about.
Schools should get a cut, Jim Bob making T’s in his basement and making money off of selling any schools likeness should be paying the school. I don’t care who it is, a brand has value, and that value needs protected.
Let's hold aside some loser making shirts in his basement - which I did not mention.

I said there are other schools (who have Scarlett and other reds as a color and "State" in their name) that can make shirts and OSU can do nothing about it - because the color and the world "State" are not in anyway "owned" by OSU. Now the issue is if the color and word "State" can not owned, there is a case that your loser in the basement could indeed make shirts - as long as they do not use the name or mark,

And if "State" and the color ar not owned, how can "The" be owned?
Last Edited: 8/17/2019 7:10:33 PM by cc-cat
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/18/2019 7:39 AM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Maybe they should try to trademark "State." We could support that one, right?
If someone begins selling thousands of Red and Grey shirts with the word State on it, why shouldn’t they get a cut. Same for us if it’s Green and White with OHIO
I can name a number of schools that can sell grey t-shirt’s and sweatshirts with a red (even scarlett) “State” on them and no one else is getting a cut. And there is nothing OSU can do about.
Schools should get a cut, Jim Bob making T’s in his basement and making money off of selling any schools likeness should be paying the school. I don’t care who it is, a brand has value, and that value needs protected.
Let's hold aside some loser making shirts in his basement - which I did not mention.

I said there are other schools (who have Scarlett and other reds as a color and "State" in their name) that can make shirts and OSU can do nothing about it - because the color and the world "State" are not in anyway "owned" by OSU. Now the issue is if the color and word "State" can not owned, there is a case that your loser in the basement could indeed make shirts - as long as they do not use the name or mark,

And if "State" and the color ar not owned, how can "The" be owned?
I you and everyone else knows what the focus of those State shirts would be. It’s the intent. Same thing with “THE”, the application is not a blanket trademark on a word, but rather specific in focus. To appeal that depicts OSU.
Bobcat110
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Posted: 9/4/2019 10:27 AM
mf279801
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Posted: 9/4/2019 10:45 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Its not just OSU who seems a bit carried away with trademarking things.

There's an article in today's paper that Rutgers has "asked" a Louisiana high school to change their logo.

Seem Ruston High School used the same now trademarked block "R" as Rutgers.

The article says the school got a "cease and desist " letter about the logo.

First off,Rutgers doesn't exactly set the world on fire with merchandise
sales.
Second,its a high school far removed from RU.

I know a bunch of die hard RU fans.
They all think this is a bit much.
What’s wrong with that? It is the property of Rutgers! Wisconsin Sent same letter to Warren several years ago. IMO, we should do more to protect our Mark as well, we paid a lot of money to design that mark to just give it away.
Legally,there's absolutely nothing wrong with.

Just seems a bit petty for a New Jersey University to be that concerned that a local public high school in a small Louisiana town is using their trademarked logo.
Especially since,if the news stories are correct,they've been using the
logo since before RU trademarked it.
I'm not a lawyer, so I might be wrong about this, but if said High School started using the block R logo before Rutgers, AND if they can provide evidence of this, doesn't that give them a pretty strong case to tell Rutgers to get bent, in legal-speak?

(Not that that would prevent Rutgers...or a lawyer...from throwing a cease and desist order around as a monkey at the zoo might throw its poop)
west side cat
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Posted: 9/5/2019 7:04 AM
So I'm terrible at technology and somebody even a little better than me can probably find this and post it, but my son sent me a video from Barstool Cincinnati/Instagram.......essentially some UC fans going to Ohio State and putting UC tape over all of the "The" on Ohio State signs around campus, calling it An Ohio State University. Pretty funny, my brother is a buckeye so moving forward that's how I'll refer to them, an ohio state university.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/5/2019 8:02 AM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
Its not just OSU who seems a bit carried away with trademarking things.

There's an article in today's paper that Rutgers has "asked" a Louisiana high school to change their logo.

Seem Ruston High School used the same now trademarked block "R" as Rutgers.

The article says the school got a "cease and desist " letter about the logo.

First off,Rutgers doesn't exactly set the world on fire with merchandise
sales.
Second,its a high school far removed from RU.

I know a bunch of die hard RU fans.
They all think this is a bit much.
What’s wrong with that? It is the property of Rutgers! Wisconsin Sent same letter to Warren several years ago. IMO, we should do more to protect our Mark as well, we paid a lot of money to design that mark to just give it away.
Legally,there's absolutely nothing wrong with.

Just seems a bit petty for a New Jersey University to be that concerned that a local public high school in a small Louisiana town is using their trademarked logo.
Especially since,if the news stories are correct,they've been using the
logo since before RU trademarked it.
I'm not a lawyer, so I might be wrong about this, but if said High School started using the block R logo before Rutgers, AND if they can provide evidence of this, doesn't that give them a pretty strong case to tell Rutgers to get bent, in legal-speak?

(Not that that would prevent Rutgers...or a lawyer...from throwing a cease and desist order around as a monkey at the zoo might throw its poop)
In an administrative court proceeding, for said High School to prevail over Rutgers it likely would have to show that it had registered the R as a trademark and subsequently had zealously protected it. (We could hope that common sense would prevail, but that can be in short supply in a court.)
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rpbobcat
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Posted: 9/5/2019 8:41 AM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
In an administrative court proceeding, for said High School to prevail over Rutgers it likely would have to show that it had registered the R as a trademark and subsequently had zealously protected it. (We could hope that common sense would prevail, but that can be in short supply in a court.)
One of the attorneys I work with does patent and trademark work.

He's also a Rutgers grad and die-hard fan.

We were talking about this last week.

He said the same thing that was posted on this thread about "vigorously defending" a trademark.

But he also said that,in this case,Rutgers' position, created very bad "optics".

He wondered why Rutgers didn't just grant the high school a License to use the logo.

That would maintain the integrity of the trademark and let Rutgers look good in the process.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/5/2019 11:17 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
In an administrative court proceeding, for said High School to prevail over Rutgers it likely would have to show that it had registered the R as a trademark and subsequently had zealously protected it. (We could hope that common sense would prevail, but that can be in short supply in a court.)
One of the attorneys I work with does patent and trademark work.

He's also a Rutgers grad and die-hard fan.

We were talking about this last week.

He said the same thing that was posted on this thread about "vigorously defending" a trademark.

But he also said that,in this case,Rutgers' position, created very bad "optics".

He wondered why Rutgers didn't just grant the high school a License to use the logo.

That would maintain the integrity of the trademark and let Rutgers look good in the process.
Yes, but that would mean exercising common sense - with a dash of compassion.
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Posted: 9/5/2019 11:28 AM
I hope you guys know that OHIO has asked schools to quit using the Attack Cat logo. Logo's are trademarked, costed money and are a brand identity.
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Posted: 9/5/2019 12:12 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Maybe they should try to trademark "State." We could support that one, right?
If someone begins selling thousands of Red and Grey shirts with the word State on it, why shouldn’t they get a cut. Same for us if it’s Green and White with OHIO
I can name a number of schools that can sell grey t-shirt’s and sweatshirts with a red (even scarlett) “State” on them and no one else is getting a cut. And there is nothing OSU can do about.
Schools should get a cut, Jim Bob making T’s in his basement and making money off of selling any schools likeness should be paying the school. I don’t care who it is, a brand has value, and that value needs protected.


Hey, I am not making t shirts in my basement!
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/5/2019 12:15 PM
Jim Bob wrote:expand_more
Maybe they should try to trademark "State." We could support that one, right?
If someone begins selling thousands of Red and Grey shirts with the word State on it, why shouldn’t they get a cut. Same for us if it’s Green and White with OHIO
I can name a number of schools that can sell grey t-shirt’s and sweatshirts with a red (even scarlett) “State” on them and no one else is getting a cut. And there is nothing OSU can do about.
Schools should get a cut, Jim Bob making T’s in his basement and making money off of selling any schools likeness should be paying the school. I don’t care who it is, a brand has value, and that value needs protected.


Hey, I am not making t shirts in my basement!
LMAO
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/5/2019 12:16 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I hope you guys know that OHIO has asked schools to quit using the Attack Cat logo. Logo's are trademarked, costed money and are a brand identity.
Yes, am aware. Cost to register is modest. Back when the OSU/OU spat surfaced, I shared thinking with OU's law dept. They sent me a copy of the registration for the arched OHIO. I suggested an additional trademark: Ohio - First & Finest. Don't know if it was registered.
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BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/5/2019 12:38 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
I hope you guys know that OHIO has asked schools to quit using the Attack Cat logo. Logo's are trademarked, costed money and are a brand identity.
Yes, am aware. Cost to register is modest. Back when the OSU/OU spat surfaced, I shared thinking with OU's law dept. They sent me a copy of the registration for the arched OHIO. I suggested an additional trademark: Ohio - First & Finest. Don't know if it was registered.
And the cost of the design of the artwork was where the real expense was.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/5/2019 2:05 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I hope you guys know that OHIO has asked schools to quit using the Attack Cat logo. Logo's are trademarked, costed money and are a brand identity.
Yes, am aware. Cost to register is modest. Back when the OSU/OU spat surfaced, I shared thinking with OU's law dept. They sent me a copy of the registration for the arched OHIO. I suggested an additional trademark: Ohio - First & Finest. Don't know if it was registered.
And the cost of the design of the artwork was where the real expense was.
Not necessarily, especially if the client approaches design strategically. During my corporate career I led the creation of Corporate Identity and Branding systems for two global Fortune 500 comps. In meeting with the chosen designer, I would provide two "hints." First, I would articulate the objectives of the design. Then I would provide what I termed operative words. One such example: After articulating the objectives, I related these operative words: Bold. Simple. Elegant.

Then as the designer - a man in one case, a woman in the other - developed a first iteration, he/she would keep asking self: Is it Bold? Is it Simple? Is it Elegant? Does it meet the stated objective?

This process kept iterations to a minimum and avoided costly re-works.

BTW, With regard to my books, I employed the same approach when discussing dust jacket designs with the publisher's design teams. They usually "nailed it" with the first iteration.
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