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Topic: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region
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Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 5/25/2020 11:43 PM
I'm against it.
ohio9704
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Posted: 5/26/2020 12:06 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I'm against it.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Grab
roger
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Posted: 5/26/2020 6:33 AM
I’m with Jeff!
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 5/26/2020 7:53 AM
Everyone keeps saying it's about money, but it was a proposal from the coaches' association. They're the ones who wanted it.

That said, I have mixed feelings about it. I know the reason they wanted it is because there have been a couple of really good teams get left out of the playoffs in loaded regions (undefeated Gibsonburg this past year in a region where there were eight teams that were 9-1 or better plus 8-2 Coldwater), but at the same time, I don't think those teams were so good they could have won a state title.

Especially in Division I, because there are significantly fewer teams to begin with, a lot of really mediocre or worse teams are going to qualify. About two-thirds of Division I teams will get into the playoffs. It'll be closer to two-fifths in other divisions.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/26/2020 8:56 AM
ohio9704 wrote:expand_more
I'm against it.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Grab
Actually it’s not a money grab. This proposal was brought to the OHSAA by the Coaches Association, and supported by the Principal's of the member schools. The OHSAA is run by the member institutions, and after over a year of study and discussion this is what they said they wanted. As for increased revenue, past expansions and creation of the 7th division has not greatly increased revenues.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/26/2020 8:56 AM
UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Everyone keeps saying it's about money, but it was a proposal from the coaches' association. They're the ones who wanted it.

That said, I have mixed feelings about it. I know the reason they wanted it is because there have been a couple of really good teams get left out of the playoffs in loaded regions (undefeated Gibsonburg this past year in a region where there were eight teams that were 9-1 or better plus 8-2 Coldwater), but at the same time, I don't think those teams were so good they could have won a state title.

Especially in Division I, because there are significantly fewer teams to begin with, a lot of really mediocre or worse teams are going to qualify. About two-thirds of Division I teams will get into the playoffs. It'll be closer to two-fifths in other divisions.
+1
Alan Swank
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Posted: 5/26/2020 11:29 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I'm against it.
Why?
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 5/26/2020 11:59 AM
Waters down the competition and takes away prestige of making the playoffs. Also, byes sometimes turn out to be a disadvantage.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 5/26/2020 12:08 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Waters down the competition and takes away prestige of making the playoffs. Also, byes sometimes turn out to be a disadvantage.
So why is football the only sport that doesn't include everybody? A basketball team can go 0 - 20 and get in. Have you seen some of the first round district tournament scores?
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Posted: 5/26/2020 12:48 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I'm against it.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Grab
Actually it’s not a money grab. This proposal was brought to the OHSAA by the Coaches Association, and supported by the Principal's of the member schools. The OHSAA is run by the member institutions, and after over a year of study and discussion this is what they said they wanted. As for increased revenue, past expansions and creation of the 7th division has not greatly increased revenues.
Coaches job security - "made the playoffs three years in a row."
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/26/2020 4:29 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Waters down the competition and takes away prestige of making the playoffs. Also, byes sometimes turn out to be a disadvantage.
So why is football the only sport that doesn't include everybody? A basketball team can go 0 - 20 and get in. Have you seen some of the first round district tournament scores?
And everyone loves when 1st round of basketball is 99-3
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 5/26/2020 9:38 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
I'm against it.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Grab
Actually it’s not a money grab. This proposal was brought to the OHSAA by the Coaches Association, and supported by the Principal's of the member schools. The OHSAA is run by the member institutions, and after over a year of study and discussion this is what they said they wanted. As for increased revenue, past expansions and creation of the 7th division has not greatly increased revenues.
Coaches job security - "made the playoffs three years in a row."

Sort of like bowls on the FBS level.
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 5/26/2020 9:41 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Waters down the competition and takes away prestige of making the playoffs. Also, byes sometimes turn out to be a disadvantage.
So why is football the only sport that doesn't include everybody? A basketball team can go 0 - 20 and get in. Have you seen some of the first round district tournament scores?
All sports have distinctive characteristics. Not having everyone make the playoffs is one thing I appreciate about football.

In basketball, volleyball and baseball, teams can play multiple games in the same week, making it more feasible to have all teams in the playoffs. In football, not so.
Bobcat1996
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Posted: 5/27/2020 8:50 AM
I'm with JeffM on this, as it waters down the sport. In Ohio D1 Region 2 all schools last season finishing in the 9-12 spots were 4-6 on the season. In D1 Region 3 the 12th seeded team Gahanna was 3-7. D1 in Ohio 12 of the 18 teams in each region would make the playoffs. Come on, this is ridiculous. OHSSA can say what they want, but it is a money grab in some sort of way.
Last Edited: 5/27/2020 8:52:15 AM by Bobcat1996
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/27/2020 4:10 PM
Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
I'm with JeffM on this, as it waters down the sport. In Ohio D1 Region 2 all schools last season finishing in the 9-12 spots were 4-6 on the season. In D1 Region 3 the 12th seeded team Gahanna was 3-7. D1 in Ohio 12 of the 18 teams in each region would make the playoffs. Come on, this is ridiculous. OHSSA can say what they want, but it is a money grab in some sort of way.
I challenge you to show me the facts it’s a money grab? Again, it’s what the coaches association and schools wanted.
Bobcat1996
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Posted: 5/27/2020 9:22 PM
If OHSSA is in the charitable mood, then maybe the office can donate all the money that is made back to the schools? Every single cent. As it stands now 8 teams qualify in D1 in an 18 team region. This decision may have been made by the coaches association, but OHSSA won't complain as they will be seeing some profits. Take a poll throughout the state of Ohio. I am guessing many fans don't want to see the 12th seed in an 18 team region with 3 wins qualify for the playoffs?
Alan Swank
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Posted: 5/27/2020 10:02 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I'm with JeffM on this, as it waters down the sport. In Ohio D1 Region 2 all schools last season finishing in the 9-12 spots were 4-6 on the season. In D1 Region 3 the 12th seeded team Gahanna was 3-7. D1 in Ohio 12 of the 18 teams in each region would make the playoffs. Come on, this is ridiculous. OHSSA can say what they want, but it is a money grab in some sort of way.
I challenge you to show me the facts it’s a money grab? Again, it’s what the coaches association and schools wanted.
I know where you're coming from Billy but as a former multi-term VP of the state volleyball coaches association, there were many times that we put forth proposals in the best interests of the kids and they were shot down by the men in Columbus.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:49 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I'm with JeffM on this, as it waters down the sport. In Ohio D1 Region 2 all schools last season finishing in the 9-12 spots were 4-6 on the season. In D1 Region 3 the 12th seeded team Gahanna was 3-7. D1 in Ohio 12 of the 18 teams in each region would make the playoffs. Come on, this is ridiculous. OHSSA can say what they want, but it is a money grab in some sort of way.
I challenge you to show me the facts it’s a money grab? Again, it’s what the coaches association and schools wanted.
I know where you're coming from Billy but as a former multi-term VP of the state volleyball coaches association, there were many times that we put forth proposals in the best interests of the kids and they were shot down by the men in Columbus.
Well, key words are “former” which is past (almost 25 years past), New sheriff in town, entirely new administration, and new times.
Last Edited: 5/28/2020 4:50:28 PM by BillyTheCat
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 5/29/2020 9:54 AM
I think the OHSAA will make a minimal amount of money from this. As noted, the whole idea was not from the OHSAA, though the fact that it is an idea that is even slightly positive for finances I'm sure helped the OHSAA approve it.

The whole idea is to give more teams an opportunity. Every team makes the playoffs in Indiana. Teams with winning records make it in Michigan. It's more exclusive in Ohio and still will be (with the exception of Division I). I don't necessarily agree, but I get it. It was done with good intent.
Bobcat1996
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Posted: 5/29/2020 2:41 PM
Other schools with four or less wins in 2019 that would have qualified. D7 Conotton Valley, D6 East canton, D5 Chesapeake, D4 Cardinal Mooney and Field. D3 Archbishop McNicholas at 3-7. Say what you want, but getting in the football playoffs with three wins, just does not seem right?
OUcats82
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Posted: 5/29/2020 3:18 PM
Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
Other schools with four or less wins in 2019 that would have qualified. D7 Conotton Valley, D6 East canton, D5 Chesapeake, D4 Cardinal Mooney and Field. D3 Archbishop McNicholas at 3-7. Say what you want, but getting in the football playoffs with three wins, just does not seem right?
It does to me but the wild thing is some of those teams might actually win a first round game, considering the top 4 seeds get byes. Two of the teams that McNick beat went on to go 15-5 in the regular season. 5 of their 7 losses were to playoff teams so they were battle-tested. But they may be more of an outlier I think.
Ohio-The State University

Buckeye to Bobcat
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Posted: 5/29/2020 9:05 PM
I say it is a money grab along with a security thing.

Money Grab: 4 more schools will get to host another playoff game. Another week of ticket sales for local sites that will be home games that go to OHSAA. Allows for officials to work another week of football. Allows for schools to take advantage for concessions and parking revenue.

Security: Like someone else said, can't fire a coach if they make the playoffs. Waters down the damn thing. At this point, go back to six 11-man divisions, and make Division VII 8 man football.

As someone else also mentioned, I bet within 3 years they're going to argue for a system similar to basketball, where the seeds place themselves on the bracket. That bye week does no one favors and to tell a team to go from playing games to having two weeks off could very easily kill the mojo of teams in a hurry. If betting were allowed on HS football, I would take the best of the 5-8 seeds more often than a Top 4 seed to get to the Final Four of the playoffs due to staying in rhythm. Only way I'd elect to take a bye is if I had a boatload of injuries/suspensions that would need to be taken care of.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 5/29/2020 10:39 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
I say it is a money grab along with a security thing.

Money Grab: 4 more schools will get to host another playoff game. Another week of ticket sales for local sites that will be home games that go to OHSAA. Allows for officials to work another week of football. Allows for schools to take advantage for concessions and parking revenue.

Security: Like someone else said, can't fire a coach if they make the playoffs. Waters down the damn thing. At this point, go back to six 11-man divisions, and make Division VII 8 man football.

As someone else also mentioned, I bet within 3 years they're going to argue for a system similar to basketball, where the seeds place themselves on the bracket. That bye week does no one favors and to tell a team to go from playing games to having two weeks off could very easily kill the mojo of teams in a hurry. If betting were allowed on HS football, I would take the best of the 5-8 seeds more often than a Top 4 seed to get to the Final Four of the playoffs due to staying in rhythm. Only way I'd elect to take a bye is if I had a boatload of injuries/suspensions that would need to be taken care of.
Not sure many districts allow placement on the bracket any longer. It was that way in Akron for many years but down here in the SE district it's get seeded and you go to your assigned spot on the bracket.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/29/2020 11:04 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I say it is a money grab along with a security thing.

Money Grab: 4 more schools will get to host another playoff game. Another week of ticket sales for local sites that will be home games that go to OHSAA. Allows for officials to work another week of football. Allows for schools to take advantage for concessions and parking revenue.

Security: Like someone else said, can't fire a coach if they make the playoffs. Waters down the damn thing. At this point, go back to six 11-man divisions, and make Division VII 8 man football.

As someone else also mentioned, I bet within 3 years they're going to argue for a system similar to basketball, where the seeds place themselves on the bracket. That bye week does no one favors and to tell a team to go from playing games to having two weeks off could very easily kill the mojo of teams in a hurry. If betting were allowed on HS football, I would take the best of the 5-8 seeds more often than a Top 4 seed to get to the Final Four of the playoffs due to staying in rhythm. Only way I'd elect to take a bye is if I had a boatload of injuries/suspensions that would need to be taken care of.
Not sure many districts allow placement on the bracket any longer. It was that way in Akron for many years but down here in the SE district it's get seeded and you go to your assigned spot on the bracket.
Only the SE uses pre slotted brackets.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/29/2020 11:08 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
I say it is a money grab along with a security thing.

Money Grab: 4 more schools will get to host another playoff game. Another week of ticket sales for local sites that will be home games that go to OHSAA. Allows for officials to work another week of football. Allows for schools to take advantage for concessions and parking revenue.

Security: Like someone else said, can't fire a coach if they make the playoffs. Waters down the damn thing. At this point, go back to six 11-man divisions, and make Division VII 8 man football.

As someone else also mentioned, I bet within 3 years they're going to argue for a system similar to basketball, where the seeds place themselves on the bracket. That bye week does no one favors and to tell a team to go from playing games to having two weeks off could very easily kill the mojo of teams in a hurry. If betting were allowed on HS football, I would take the best of the 5-8 seeds more often than a Top 4 seed to get to the Final Four of the playoffs due to staying in rhythm. Only way I'd elect to take a bye is if I had a boatload of injuries/suspensions that would need to be taken care of.
I’m sure you’ve seen all the financials then, I mean you are making the claims, have you actually seen what expansion has brought in? Everyone talks about how the OHSAA is all about the money, he’ll the secretaries at the OHSAA took a 10% pay cut (just like Frank and Jeff), Sport Admins 20% and the Executive Director took a 25% cut. I mean if we are going to lay out how greedy they are, let’s put all the facts out there.
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