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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Inexperience and bad coaching
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sargentfan
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Posted: 3/11/2011 9:18 AM
I really think those were the two things that really killed us tonight.  For some reason DJ and Groce just didn't know how to protect a lead smartly.  First off if you have a 9pt lead with 2:30 left start milking the clock, no need to rush anything.  Secondly if you are in the bonus start driving to the rim in the hopes of making contact or throwing it down into the bigs who can create contact too, thats way better than just taking bad shots.   I really wasn't that confident that we would win in regulation with DJ just having the ball, all I did was flash back to the Kent game and think of how ineffective that was.  Lastly Ivo's ineffective switching on defense really hurt us too at the end of that game, he just didn't seem to either know what to do or was always expecting something else from the player he was trying to help.

I really hope DJ and Groce use this game to grow and gain experience for next season, there is alot of potential in both of them they just don't seem to be living up to it fully just yet.
LoganElm_grad09
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Posted: 3/11/2011 9:45 AM
I think Coach Groce improved this season.  OUr run last season was due to Armon going supernova on every team we played; but this season we had no go-to scorer, little cohesiveness in the beginning of the season, and were last in the MAC East.

Then we reel off 10 of our last 13 (something like that) including a win @Kent and blowing out Akron.  The team started to gel as the season progressed and we learned what worked and looked like a team.

Next season will be good and if nobody leaves that year, the year after... watch out!
OUVan
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Posted: 3/11/2011 10:18 AM
sargentfan wrote:expand_more
I really think those were the two things that really killed us tonight.  For some reason DJ and Groce just didn't know how to protect a lead smartly.  First off if you have a 9pt lead with 2:30 left start milking the clock, no need to rush anything.  Secondly if you are in the bonus start driving to the rim in the hopes of making contact or throwing it down into the bigs who can create contact too, thats way better than just taking bad shots.   I really wasn't that confident that we would win in regulation with DJ just having the ball, all I did was flash back to the Kent game and think of how ineffective that was.  Lastly Ivo's ineffective switching on defense really hurt us too at the end of that game, he just didn't seem to either know what to do or was always expecting something else from the player he was trying to help.

I really hope DJ and Groce use this game to grow and gain experience for next season, there is alot of potential in both of them they just don't seem to be living up to it fully just yet.


Sorry but you and Steve Mix apparently were watching a different game than me. Here are our possessions after we had the 9 point lead

1. Divo misses a layup with 12 seconds left on the shot clock.  Good look and probably should have gotten a foul call.

2. Ivo missed jumper with with 4 seconds left on the shot clock.

3. Ivo missed FT on the front end of a one-and-one.

4. D.J. missed jumper with 3 seconds left on the shot clock.  Open look but he just missed it.

How much farther do you want to milk the clock?   As for getting calls, you can't rely on the MAC officials getting anything right.  They were absolutely horrible last night but that is the norm.   I'm sure Ball State fans can tell you of plenty of bad calls against them but all I remember are the one against us.
Flomo-genized
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Posted: 3/11/2011 10:31 AM
The one play that stuck out to me was the decision to just let DJ hold the ball for 25 seconds and then create at the end of regulation.  That is our go-to last shot play, and I don't believe it's worked once all season.  We at least got a better look out of it today than at Kent, for instance, but we need to run a real play there.

DJ's decision-making needs to improve next year if he is going to become a legitimate POTY candidate.  For example, his decision to jack the 3 with 10 seconds left in OT was really poor in my mind.  He should have driven it to the hoop, taken the 2 (with a possible and one), to set up the quick foul and extend the game.  While he was open, he's a 31% 3 point shooter who was 1 of 5 from 3 on the night.  That's not the shot I want, even if open, with the season on the line.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/11/2011 10:39 AM
Flomo-genized wrote:expand_more
The one play that stuck out to me was the decision to just let DJ hold the ball for 25 seconds and then create at the end of regulation.  That is our go-to last shot play, and I don't believe it's worked once all season.  We at least got a better look out of it today than at Kent, for instance, but we need to run a real play there..


But that clearly isn't on DJ. That's on Groce. 
Flomo-genized
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Posted: 3/11/2011 10:41 AM
Agreed.  My post was a little disjointed.  Paragraph 1 was a criticism of the coaching staff, paragraph 2 was more an execution issue (which is coaching-related as well ultimately, but less so in the specific example).
bobcat28
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Posted: 3/11/2011 11:11 AM
LoganElm_grad09 wrote:expand_more
Next season will be good and if nobody leaves


Anyone taking odds on who might not be back next year? History says we will lose at least one. I'm hoping everyone will be back, but I'm going to say either Hall or Jacobs will transfer.
MedinaCat
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Posted: 3/11/2011 11:13 AM
I agree with the both of you....is the coaching staff incapable of drawing up a play that is something other than DJ standing at the point dribbling the clock down then launching up a 3?  
giacomo
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Posted: 3/11/2011 11:20 AM
It sounds to me like if Baltic's layup goes in and he makes at least one foul shot at the end, we win this game in regulation. Then this thread does not exist. Those are the bounces of the game. Look at Pitt losing at the end yesterday. Tell me Jamie Dixon can't coach.
GoCats105
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Posted: 3/11/2011 11:31 AM
bobcat28 wrote:expand_more
Next season will be good and if nobody leaves


Anyone taking odds on who might not be back next year? History says we will lose at least one. I'm hoping everyone will be back, but I'm going to say either Hall or Jacobs will transfer.


I actually wouldnt be suprised if it was a more "impactful" name, But I really, really hope I'm wrong and this team stays together like glue.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/11/2011 11:37 AM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
It sounds to me like if Baltic's layup goes in and he makes at least one foul shot at the end, we win this game in regulation. Then this thread does not exist. Those are the bounces of the game. Look at Pitt losing at the end yesterday. Tell me Jamie Dixon can't coach.


That's exactly right.  The fact is we needed one good thing to happen in the last four possessions but it didn't.  John Groce is all of a sudden a great tournament coach and these guys have guts.

I think part of the problem is that we were horrible trying to milk the clock all year.  It had nothing to do with taking quick shots. It had to do with that we stopped running the offense.  We stopped taking shots that we would normally take.  All of a sudden there are 10 seconds left on the clock and we are left with no one that can create their own shot other than DJ.  We end up with Ivo or Devo having 15 foot jumpers or Tommy and Nick having contested shots.  Our offense when run properly is very good. But it typically needs time to run. Sometimes we get open shots quickly but on many times we have to reset and rerun it. But most of the time we get good looks at some time during each possession. When we milk 20 seconds off the clock it makes for a much less effective offense particularly since we only have one player creating his own shot.  I think pulling up on the gas pedal also has negative effects on the defensive end.  We played an excellent aggressive defensive game in the second half until late.  All of a sudden you look up and the only guy playing aggressive defense is Kellogg.
bobcat28
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Posted: 3/11/2011 12:21 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Next season will be good and if nobody leaves


Anyone taking odds on who might not be back next year? History says we will lose at least one. I'm hoping everyone will be back, but I'm going to say either Hall or Jacobs will transfer.


I actually wouldnt be suprised if it was a more "impactful" name, But I really, really hope I'm wrong and this team stays together like glue.


I will throw Keely in the mix too
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Posted: 3/11/2011 12:38 PM
It just seems like we don't have a good way to get a great shot.  Has anyone seen us run a great set to get a shot other than an alley-oop or a ball screen?  I've only had the chance to watch 5 or 6 games this year so sorry in advance if I'm missing the boat here.

Honestly, with Ivo's options on the block, I'd throw it to him and let him work.  He has really improved the variety of his moves the past year.   He is developing into a true post presence for us.   Then, spot up the guards.  If they double off of DeVo, like they did last night, then you've got that option too.

Not having another guard like Bassett to create his own shot hurt us was well.  Did you see that stat on Freeman last night, "last 34 FGs were all 3's".  I love Tommy, he is everything about Bobcat hoops that I love.   Stevie Fresh and Kinney hurt us there, as someone already mentioned.
Ozcat
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Posted: 3/11/2011 12:53 PM
I saw the good and then the ugly last night.

The good:

The first 4 plays after the 8:00 timeout last night were a thing of beauty.  Perfectly executed, drawn up plays to get easy, wide-open looks.


The ugly:  Everything from 2:15 on.  Holy cow we looked lost.

I remember thinking to myself with 4:00 left, "Man, if Ball could make a layup, we'd be losing by 15 points."  Tough loss, but oh well.  Now I won't be tempted to drive to Cleveland tonight...
Casper71
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Posted: 3/11/2011 3:20 PM
I still say, offensively, I just don't get what we try to do.  Set some screens down low and get one uncontested shot.  Most of the criticism here is on the offense and I agree.  We just needed one shot to fall or for someone to make a free throw in the last two minutes and we win.  But, defensively, we stunk the place up the last 2+ minutes.  How can anybody weakly  foul guys shooting layups twice when you were ahead at that time of the game? Just let 'em make the dag gone layup but don't give them the free thros.  And, after you switch on their best outside shooter how can you look around to see where the guy who WAS guarding him went?

Bottom line is coaching and execution have to be better.

One other point...we seem to think our frosh were the best in the league this year and that our recruiting was far superior to anyone else.  After seeing this game, I am not so sure I wouldn't take the BALLS frosh over ours.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 3/11/2011 4:20 PM
I think we did fine on offense in the final two minutes, except that we didn't make shots. We worked the clock and got decent looks. That's what you want to do.

The problem was defense. You can't give up two three-point plays and a 3-pointer. When you're up that much, the only way a team can get back in it, without having to foul at the end, is if you give up more than two points a possession, and we did that three times.
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