Bobcat Attack - Ohio Basketball - Project Next Year's Starters

Ohio Basketball Topic

Topic: Project Next Year's Starters

Page: 2 of 2

Steve

General User

Member Since: 12/1/2005

Post Count: 713

mail

Steve

mail

Posted: 3/24/2011 5:22 PM

For those who have seen Smith play, what can we expect? He's listed at 6-7, 190. Is he strong enough to be a presence inside? Can he score in the lane?

crackerbaby00

General User

C00

Member Since: 3/8/2007

Post Count: 442

C00

mail

crackerbaby00

mail

Posted: 3/24/2011 8:22 PM

I see a lineup of the following next year:

PG - DJ
SG - Nick

SF - Offut/Mitchell

PF - Baltic

C - Keely

I see Smith getting a lot of minutes off the bench with Goard getting a few here and there (and more if Keely/Baltic get in foul trouble). I hope Jacobs can work his way into the rotation as well to add some needed height. It would be great if we could have 5 solid bigs able to step in and play a certain role depending on the game. Adding a physical player down low with our last scholly would be a great asset as well, although I am not sure how many of those you will find this late in the game.

The backcourt is a little more fuzzy. Obviously DJ is going to see a lot of minutes, but I think his minutes go down from what we have seen now that Mr. Taylor will be around to spell him. Also, it seems to me that DJ shoots the 3 better when he is spotting up, so having another true PG on the team could allow him to play off the ball for a few minutes a game (also saving some energy for the end of the game). At the wings, I see a battle all year long for minutes. I really like the idea of having DJ, Nick, and Mitchell on the court at the same time as they all can handle the ball and can all put the ball in the basket. We will be able to show a number of looks, including 3 and 4 guard looks. I really hope that we use all of our guards to our advantage by pressing on defense and forcing turnovers.

Monroe Slavin

General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004

Location: Oxnard, CA

Post Count: 9,121

mail

Monroe Slavin

mail

Posted: 3/24/2011 9:39 PM

The question of size and toughness must be answered.

Is it answered by having three guards on the court who between them average a shade over six feet?

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

Wilson Hall Record Holder

General User

WHRH

Member Since: 11/13/2010

Post Count: 154

WHRH

mail

Wilson Hall Record Holder

mail

Posted: 3/24/2011 10:00 PM

Steve wrote:expand_more

For those who have seen Smith play, what can we expect? He's listed at 6-7, 190. Is he strong enough to be a presence inside? Can he score in the lane?

I have not seen him play against the size he will have to encounter as a collegian but it would be an absolute shock to me if he is any type of "physical" presence. He is very athletic though perhaps not as much as Washington. That is also a very misleading statement since in my opinion Washington had no clue how to use his leaping athleticism to his advantage other than by catching an alley oop. Smith will get a lot more out of his gift in this area.

That being said, if you have not yet seen Smith in a uniform be prepared to see someone that is arguably thinner than DJ (scary thought isn't it?) and we're talking 5'11 DJ being as thick of a build as 6'7 Smith. I see him being bullied by Kent St. and anyone else that has real beef in the paint. Unfortunately he isn't as long Zeke Marshall to compensate.

Offensively, he does have at least adequate ball skills but again I have no idea how he will fair against someone with beef while trying to execute his moves. He blew out his knee early in his high school career so that has always been a concern even though he obviously overcame that to land a division one scholarship and several other D-1 offers.

To sum up, if you're thinking or hoping he will be the physical presence we all realize the Cats need, don't hold your breath. I fully expect him to be in the top 5 (in the MAC) in blocks though assuming his minutes are plentiful. the problem is that blocks shots still have to be gathered by one team or the other and often it comes down to strength and physicality as in rebounding so we'll have to see how it plays out.

Last Edited: 3/24/2011 10:03:40 PM by Wilson Hall Record Holder

Chicken George

General User

Member Since: 1/2/2005

Post Count: 766

mail

Chicken George

mail

Posted: 3/24/2011 10:27 PM

My guess is that the only version of a "big manz" for OHIO next year will be Keely and Ethan (if he is allowed off the bench). If it's the Keely we saw most of the season, then we don't have a "big manz." If it's the Keely we saw most of last year and the last two games of this year, that may be somewhat adequate against most team we'll face.

Still waiting on the next Brandon Hunter , Leon Williams, or Gary Trent to walk through the Convo doors.

Wilson Hall Record Holder

General User

WHRH

Member Since: 11/13/2010

Post Count: 154

WHRH

mail

Wilson Hall Record Holder

mail

Posted: 3/24/2011 10:39 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more

The question of size and toughness must be answered.

Is it answered by having three guards on the court who between them average a shade over six feet?

Well given that Offutt and Nick are both listed t 6'3 --- I would have no problem with those two starting alongside DJ as long as they make up the best 5 man unit to start the games with. I don't think of Villanova, I think of Marquette with Wes Matthews, Dominique James and the 3rd guard whose name escapes me. It's not as though we would have to be fretting other teams posting up their small forwards against us.

Conversely, on offense and in transition we would have 3 players that can initiate the offense from any position on the floor. You have to think that if we can isolate our "3" against theirs then we will force several "help" situations for the defense that would not only lead to ball rotations to an open 3 point shooter but also dishes to unguarded post players and even more important better offensive rebounding opportunities as our post players will often find themselves not being boxed out due the the help situations and resulting scrambling by the defense.

The number 1 key will be the pace of the game not how big our "3" will be in my opinion. As long as we can have at least 2 active post players in terms of rebounding then we should be better than I expect the media to project us to be.

Although I think it should be pointed out that Goard does have the ability to bring the ball up the court even at 6'7 but I'm not sure he's ready to make the jump in competition level playing where he played in West Virginia. It may take him a year

Last Edited: 3/24/2011 10:53:08 PM by Wilson Hall Record Holder

JSF

General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005

Location: Houston, TX

Post Count: 6,599

mail

JSF

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 1:02 AM

Smith is skinny, but he's stronger than he looks and he's not afraid to get in there. Sure, he can be pushed around a bit, but he'll also get into the fray. I think a lot of people will like him. He's also very long... he has a 7'2", 7'3" wingspan or something crazy like that. His arms are long.

Offutt is a guard. Don't see him at the 3, but Groce thinks a lot of him. He'll see a lot of time.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

Wilson Hall Record Holder

General User

WHRH

Member Since: 11/13/2010

Post Count: 154

WHRH

mail

Wilson Hall Record Holder

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 1:34 AM

I agree that Offutt is a guard but that doesn't stand in the way of him or Kellogg playing the "3" as a starter anymore than not having any other center besides Jacobs prevented Washington or Keeley or Baltic from playing the "5" this year as starters

Attack U

General User

Member Since: 11/15/2010

Location: Canfield, OH

Post Count: 33

mail

Attack U

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 2:11 AM

For the majority of the year, I see this as the starting lineup with (backups)...

PG - Cooper (Taylor)
SG - Offutt (Mitchell) (Goff)
SF - Hall (Johnson)
PF - Baltic (Smith) (Goard)
C - Keely (Jacobs)

This will probably be the starting lineup for the year. This gives the most versatility in my mind. You can go small/athletic or big/physical with this lineup. Bringing Kellogg off the bench will be a great asset and the ability to spell Coop and Offutt with Taylor/Kellogg/Mitchell will be huge. Hall can start at the 3 with the ability to go small or big (Goard). Smith can come in and spell Baltic at the 4. Keely can rotate between the 4 and 5. Hopefully Jacobs can provide some minutes at the 5 this year to have Keely rotate between 4 and 5.

I like this lineup because you can go small with moving Offutt or Kellogg to 3, or go big with Hall at 2 and Goard/Smith at 3. I like the versatility of next years team and can't wait to see how Groce utilizes the rotation. The biggest question mark in my mind is if Jacobs can come in and contribute big minutes.

I'm excited to see Offutt and Smith along with Stevie and Goard. Hopefully we can get another big body to provide depth at the 4/5 (JUCO possibly???).

Wilson Hall Record Holder

General User

WHRH

Member Since: 11/13/2010

Post Count: 154

WHRH

mail

Wilson Hall Record Holder

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 3:03 AM

Attack U wrote:expand_more

You do realize that you have Hall starting and Kellogg completely out of the 12 man rotation :-)

I'm guessing that you intended to list Kellogg as the starting 5 instead of Hall. From what I have seen Goard is a 3 due to his ability to handle the basketball -- he played the post merely because where else are you going to put a 6'7 high schooler that plays on the team that he was on. He played often on the perimeter and is no stranger to grabbing a defensive rebound and then leading the fast break himself rather than looking for an outlet pass.

Those skills combined with his wiry build is why I have him as a 3 and not a post player like Smith.

Obviously we are of the same mind when it comes to the last available scholarship as my initial posting in this thread mentions my belief that it will go to a Juco post player. Unless Alex Kellogg returns.

Last Edited: 3/25/2011 3:15:49 AM by Wilson Hall Record Holder

UpSan Bobcat

General User

Member Since: 8/30/2005

Location: Upper Sandusky, OH

Post Count: 3,820

mail

UpSan Bobcat

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 9:38 AM

JSF wrote:expand_more

Jon Smith averaged 10.5 minutes as a freshman on a pretty good St. Louis Bilikens (23-13, 11-5 A-10) team as a freshman last year. Two years later in the MAC, I think he should project to be a pretty good player. He averaged 2.8 rebounds and shot 58 percent. He also averaged close to 1 block per game. I think people are making too much of his lack of weight. He'll rebound and block shots, which is something we need.

Monroe Slavin

General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004

Location: Oxnard, CA

Post Count: 9,121

mail

Monroe Slavin

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 10:56 AM

Someone posted about Cooper and Taylor being on the court together with Mitchell or Offut or Kellogg. There's your 3 at an average of six feet. Less if you use real--not roster-stated--heights.

We beat in the MAC and Georgetown in the NCAA because we got 3-pointer hot. Isn't that how most of the MAC sees us--long shot shooters who win if we're on? When was the last Ohio team that you could point to that hat two tough guys? One?

We'll have talent next year. I'm still not convinced that we'll have the ideal mix of ballplayers, though.

Last Edited: 3/25/2011 10:56:44 AM by Monroe Slavin

OUVan

General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004

Location: Bethesda, MD

Post Count: 5,580

mail

OUVan

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 11:14 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more

When was the last Ohio team that you could point to that hat two tough guys? One?

Has Leon Williams been gone that long?

71 BOBCAT

General User

71B

Member Since: 12/20/2004

Post Count: 1,974

71B

mail

71 BOBCAT

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 11:44 AM

With Washington gone we are thin & weak on returning centers. We must find someone to help in that regard or we will have great difficulty next year.
My concern has always been whether Groce can recruit a good big man. He seems to do better @ the guard position.

GO BOBCATS

anorris

General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010

Location: Bristol, CT

Post Count: 2,262

mail

anorris

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 11:57 AM

From what I've seen of Smith at practice (admittedly not a ton), he is definitely thin, but appears to be nothing but muscle, and doesn't seem too averse to mixing it up inside.

He made several plays while I watched him that were very impressive athletically, and his arms, as JSF pointed out, are looooong.

Doc Bobcat

General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004

Post Count: 4,437

mail

Doc Bobcat

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 12:10 PM

anorris wrote:expand_more

The reincarnation of Patrick Flomo.

Monroe Slavin

General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004

Location: Oxnard, CA

Post Count: 9,121

mail

Monroe Slavin

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 12:28 PM

Van, yes, Leon has been gone a while. And while we all loved him, was he known as a tough guy, a guy who'd assert a physical presence (significantly seen in board dominance or near-the-rim defense)?

Plus...and on not so much about toughness, but about winning...how many games did the player you all love win for us this year?

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead

General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006

Location: Cincinnati

Post Count: 1,926

mail

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 1:04 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more

What are trying to say about Leon?

He was known as a tough guy actually who did assert himself around the rim. He was top 100 in the country in Defensive Rebounding % all four years as a Bobcat, and he peaked his senior as #2 in the country in Offensive Rebounding %.

OUVan

General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004

Location: Bethesda, MD

Post Count: 5,580

mail

OUVan

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 1:40 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more

There was a thread on here in Leon's senior season that broke down how much lower the big men in the MAC scored under their averages against us. He was physically dominant down low. He wasn't a leaper or a shot blocker but he was dominant presence and nobody was tougher. He had serious lower body strength. He also took a beating every single night. The fact that he didn't win the MAC POY is a huge travesty.

OUVan

General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004

Location: Bethesda, MD

Post Count: 5,580

mail

OUVan

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 1:47 PM

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more

I'm at a loss as well. If you had to pick one word to describe Leon I think "tough" would be it.

Attack U

General User

Member Since: 11/15/2010

Location: Canfield, OH

Post Count: 33

mail

Attack U

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 2:22 PM

Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:expand_more

Attack U wrote:expand_more

Haha! I knew I was gonna get something wrong! Nice catch!

I actually see Kellogg as a possible 6th man of the year next year. First option off the bench at the 2 getting some big minutes. He and Offutt may split starts at the 2, but if Offutt can be as good as I think he can be, then Kellogg will be one of, if not the best bench option in the MAC.

You're right about Goard at the 3 as well. I put him at the 4 just because we are a little thin with bigs and he may get some time there when some of our bigs get into foul trouble. I do see him better at the 3 though.

Last Edited: 3/25/2011 2:33:41 PM by Attack U

JSF

General User

Member Since: 1/29/2005

Location: Houston, TX

Post Count: 6,599

mail

JSF

mail

Posted: 3/25/2011 10:57 PM

I think Nick would make a fantastic sixth man, but he seems to play better out of the starting lineup. We'll see if that changes.

Monroe Slavin

General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004

Location: Oxnard, CA

Post Count: 9,121

mail

Monroe Slavin

mail

Posted: 3/28/2011 12:25 PM

I don't deny that Leon was a tough guy in close on offense. I wasn't aware of his defensive effect. So, maybe I misunderestimated him. But I'm thinking more about the type of player who is physically intimidating defensively and sets a tone for his team. I'm not sure that Leon did that. I just don't believe that we've been a rugged challenge, a team that other squads physically dread facing. Lacking that, we give teams chances.