My two favorite posters (TT and Flomo) going head to head, and I feel like I must interject with some levity and my own straight honesty.

Frankly, I'm disgusted, disillusioned, and downright frustrated that we are even having this argument

1. We are talking about a $500,000 ledger entry here. While still a large sum of money to many individuals, we are talking about a pittance in the world of college athletics, donors, boosters, television revenues, merchandise, and licensing. I know this is a fictional figure being used for the sake of argument, but if we can't make one phone call to drum up that $500,000 from an individual or group of boosters - there is a serious problem.

2. The fundraising arm of the athletic department and university, while much improved over the past 5-7 years is still far behind where it needs to be. If you start at square 1 and get to square 5, it's an excellent jump - unfortunately we need to be at square 20 right now. The upside down pyramid that makes up the Ohio Bobcat Club tier structure is woefully short of people in the top tiers, which is ridiculous as I'm fairly certain the majority of our alumni base are not paupers begging for spare change on the side of the road.

I'll say it again, we've done a horrendous job getting people into the athletic fold and keeping them there. The amount of money flowing the wrong way on US-33 would make Gordon Gee's head explode...yet nobody can stem the tide.

3. We have Alan Swank and co. continually bitching about the measley $600-$1199 required Bobcat Club contribution when other schools would hit him for a $5k minimum to enjoy the benefits he enjoys. Seriously, give it up. Welcome to 2011, this is how things work now. While Alan and I are at the same level in giving, I ask for program improvements instead of continually bitching about the required donation and throwing some garbage decoy excuse out that it's taking away from your ability to support volleyball. 

If you want to sit 7 rows up mid court at a D-1 basketball game - then dammit you need to pay for it. All of you. No exceptions. If Schaus and Co come to me tomorrow and say the number is $2,000 to keep my perks...then I'll sit down and make an informed decision, and either continue or bank the money. But this should not be treated like the airlines where losing money and creating 80% of your budget from the general fee is accepted. Charge what you need to charge and move the hell on.  You can't please everyone.

Listening to the Athens Mafia Clowns has kept these prices depressed while the demands and expectations have risen exponentially. It's reminiscent of the Federal Government keeping tax revenue woefully short of spending and then trying to say that lower taxes creates more economic activity. DUMB!!!!

Part of this falls on Schaus, Joke-Cutt, Boeh, etc for listening to the local clowns. Set the prices where you can appease the faculty, administration, students, etc and yet still perform up to expectations while managing your budget numbers. Don't give me this cry-baby "we're in a depressed area" and "it's hard to drive down on 33" and all the b.s. excuses we're so prone to hearing. It's 2011, college sports is a business, and Ohio University needs to act accordingly - across the board. It's amazing. Generally smart people come to Athens from the outside world - and become stupid when they encounter the backwards groupthink that is Athens, Ohio.

Here's a simple question....would any other school tolerate the mediocrity put forth by Bob Cooley and Joe Carbone for this long? Nope. Check the records for these two storied programs over the past 5-10 years. Nobody would tolerate this garbage, but we do everything on the cheap and b/c the locals like having "their boys" around. Same went for Larry Hunter. Well look what happened when we canned his mediocre ass after he got soft - TOS and Groce pulled in the same number of NCAA bids that Hunter did - In a far shorter amount of time. Athens Mafia - stop listening to these clowns immediately!!! If you want a list of the people riding in the clown car - I can probably produce one via PM.

4. The MAC is effing terrible. Across the board. Pick your category. The conference stinks. Management, academics, donors, athletics, faculty, research, blah blah blah. Awful. Ohio and Miami are like Cindy Crawford and Elle Macpherson showing up to a Star Trek convention about 10 years ago. Completely out of place and being there because they feel like they have to.

It's ridiculous to keep arguing about it. The conference is dogsh!t. Everyone knows it including the other members.  The academics are awful. The cities and towns are falling apart. It's like Fukushima-Daiichi every time there is an athletic competition.

I know we've been in the league for eons...but really....it's ok to make a move. It's not your fault Will. Will, are you listening to me? It's not your fault. It's not your fault son. It's ok. It's not your fault.

The league fell apart and we need to adapt accordingly. Maybe I see it with rose colored glasses but Miami and OU should be sick and tired of being the prettiest girl at the ugly party.

5. If you gave our Athletic Administration $500,000 would they even spend it correctly? I feel a tad better about it with Schaus at the helm, but lets look at some of the recent projects that have been embarked upon:

1. Bob Wren stadium built to replace Trautwein Field - Worst move in the history of Ohio University
2. Tim O'Shea 7 year extension - 2nd Worst Move.
3. Kirby Joke-Cutt - Ok, worst move ever.
4. Elimination of sports.
5. Procurement Card Scandal
6. 20 Game Home Basketball Schedule
7. Light Debacle at Bob Wren stadium
8. CBI pay to play
9. LCPB pay to play

Honestly, I know I'm just throwing stuff out there, but there has been some awful financial decision making that has taken place in the Athletic Department. Just awful.

It's heinous watching Butler and VCU in the Final Four when I know we can bring the exact same thing to the table with just some simple attention to detail and effort. But it's the same old thing - over and over again. Round and round we go with the circle of mediocrity.

Legendary.

I agree with "Love" and that scares me.  I will continue to pony up for seats, FB, BB, Baseb and probably VB this next year and still give as I see fit for other areas.    I love the OBC and what Shaus is doing. Although,  I really don't care about points. 

Until the university development fund(ODF) gets out of the prehistoric ways of giving, the athletic department has their hands tied. Hell they were not even equipped to take credit card gifts.  (I understand that this might change this year)   No AD has had  the right to seek major funds ($250,000+) without the permission of the ODF.  On two occassions the AD was not permitted to make a major donation contact just for athletics as it interfered with the major campaign.. It was my understanding that those gifts were lost.with no intention to allow further involvement by those individuals. These individuals were not OU grads. and did not want to be a part of the campaign.  This has been ongoing for thirty years

Panda-, if what you alliege is true, that is bad stuff--losing contibs due to turf wars be stupid.

Love--pretty good post.  But you're still gonna turn off a lot here and/or draw heat from them for the way that you phrase things.  Good billhunting reference but getting semi-extreme (calling out Swank, cursing, etc). isn't helping your argument.  It's not logical but you lose people because of how you say what you say.  Logically, your message and its strength should stand despite the extreme stuff but the best arguments carry emotion, also.  The way that you said your say here puts emotion against you somewhat.

I know you don't like what I put up but I try to self-deprecate and use humor.  Might help you, might put people more on your side.

I'm quite distant.  But I, too, imagine that there are many (most?) who are comfortable with what we have and don't see what we can be.  And that becoming bigger and better means we all gotta give a little bit more.  Gotta break out of the same-old-Athens mindset.  That will upset some.  But some people are always upset.  More people will be pleased if we can bring it off.  The 'upset' will be forgotten.

Love,


you have a funny way of saying thngs but I appreciate the honesty and fully support everything you put up there. The product is moving forward. The cusp is alive. The Fanbase would be well served to get their collective *stuff* together if they really want what they demand from the kids in Green and White.

.......on that note. I truly beleive the coaches and athletes have to do a much better job of being out and selling themselves and the programs...... but I do not want to threadjack. More later in a different thread

Yes Love, your postal tones are too harsh. You need to channel your inner Warren Swain so you can deliver something friendlier that appeals to the Midwest sensibilities of Bobcat county.

Don't assume the persona of a firebrand delivering damnation from the altar of a place of worship. Instead assume the persona of that hypothetical firebrand at his news conference after confessing his dalliance with prostitutes. Be humble. You won't scare away the skittish and your post might just be the Sprint call of the game.

After all, who wants to hear the truth when it said by a meanie-bo-beanie. Harsh tones make baby Rufus cry... and drive away potential recruits... and scare off the locals... and...

In all seriousness, Love, don't ever change your tone.

I don't have any problem with the tone of Love's post.  He's not really calling out anyone in particular, though we know who many of them are.  I'm just disappointed that the infamous Kilarney Bowl game didn't make his list of all-time fiascoes. I was a victim of that one. 

Furthermore, I'd like to commend him for his take on the "Athens Mafia."  I'm a pretty motivated Bobcat supporter (both financially and effort-wise), and when I first joined the Green & White Club in the late 1980s I made some inquiries into the process for running for a board seat.  Never got a response.  I asked again in the mid-90s and was told they'd never consider someone who lives more than 45 minutes away. I think that speaks volumes about the tunnel vision of some.

I don't have a problem with Love's post.  As a matter of fact, that post and SBH's post are both great.  Preach on brothers!

This relates to my post about someone telling me (please) where the money goes now...which nobody has.  So, let's say we give basketball $500,000.  What do they spend it for that they can't right now?  And don't just say a coaches salary.  I think posters have pointed out that the VCU coach is "MAC-paid.

I do not think additional money would be needed for scholarships (fixed number by NCAA). So, how much more do we need to spend on recruiting (I tghink I read somewhere Kentucky spends about $300,000 on recruiting, seriously?)?  Or, would we put the funds into traveling to more exotic places for away games/tourneys?  Would we pay it all out in guarantees to get big names?  Or would game day operations change dramatically.

It's one thing to ask for a half million bucks.  It's another to have a plan and say here is why we need the money  and this is what we would do with it? 

Any dreamers out there? 

Strength Coach not shared with multiple sports ( have you noticed every team in the convo has a guy running around with bands and things conducting warm ups) Ours is shared with Volley, womens ball etc.

Vidoe co ordinator (an additional coach in disguise) to help with the player developement like big time programs use them

Nutritionist ...you want to get weight on kids then feed them correctly and have them  monitored regularly.


That is a couple of things I can think of on the way from the hospital to the office ...Just a start with a view of what I would have liked my kid to have.
 

Love,

Thank you for jumping on the 'Go away or shut up, Swank' Train! I think this was a great post.  I don't necessarily agree with everything, but everything stated has validity and I can understand your perspective on.  Completely agree that the fundraising for athletics is at step 5 when we need it to be at step 20, but I have to acknowledge that I never would have expected it to be a step 5 now 2 years ago.  I think that area is drastically improving right now.

For the record, since I know Swank won't provide his research findings because it will keep him from being able to complain, here are some other schools seat donation requirements.

Kent State - $75 per seat for BLEACHER seats and $250 per seat for chairback seats
                      Required donation for parking at football $250 and $2,500 for basketball

Let me know if you want more examples of how good us Ohio fans have it.

The problem with the posts on here is that the consensus for Ohio athletics is that it all starts and ends with fundraising, boosting contributions to the Ohio Bobcat Club ect. That is later in the process. Ohio really needs to work on scheduling in football and men's basketball to build the fanbase that will then lead toward more support. When I first had a look at basketball schedule for this season I thought "Don't tell me Solich is now making the basketball schedules too!" We are playing too many games against small time conferences like the MEAC and NEC. The way to look at the basketball schedule is this; if Ohio has 12 non-conference games there is no reason why at least 4 major money games can't be played against a UCLA or Texas type program. Then with the other 8 games schedule 4 one and ones with other mid majors that have like Ohio made recent runs in the NCAAs. I am talking here Western Kentucky, George Mason, Creighton, Butler for example. The final four games try to get lower tier Horizon and A10 schools in the house like Duquense or a Youngston State. That would give Ohio 4-6 non-conference games at home while giving the fans 2 solid matchups to see like a WKU or a Creighton. The fans responded well to Temple at home and they are a successful mid major program. I think taking 4 shots a year at a UCLA, Texas type program may result in 4 losses but from a recruiting and RPI standpoint that is a lot better than losing to a MEAC on the road. Then is far as MAC play this program needs to aim for finishing at least in the top 4 every season. That is why Kent has made it to about 10 combined NCAAs and NITs over the last decade, they are never less than #4 out of the conference. Within time the idea would be to build in Athens a program that wins 25+ a year and either in the NCAAs or on the verge resulting in better seeds in the NCAAs, NITs when they make it. This will then drive attendance numbers up, then leading to more OBC members and increase the likelyhood of landing the big pocket donors to make this a destination program rather than a stepping stone. 

Sorry VOR, according to the Miami site there is no seat donation except for courtside seats and if you've ever watched a game from down there, those seats are horrible - close to the action and you look important but very bad sight lines.

Again you continue to miss the point - it's not a matter of black and white but an area of grey for what is appropriate.  Also, who exactly is in this Athens Mafia?  

If we hire those people, which I agree should have been done a long time ago, don't we have students that can help out?  Wouldn't it be a good resume add to have been the Student Assistant Strength coach for Ohio University's Mens Basketball Program?  Probably students studying in that field that would do it reletively cheap (free) under the guidance of someone.  Same with the other areas of need.  

Sorry for the threadjack, carry on.

Good stuff, Love. 

Are there Title IX laws that make it so that if the men's team gets it own type of coach/specialist, then a similar position must be available for the women's teams? So in order to have them not share coaches you need to get three coaches, one for each team?

I don't know Title IX laws and need someone to educate me if I'm wrong (likely). But if this is so, I can see why costs can go up dramatically.

Alan,

Keep looking.  Thanks for the Vedder, Ridpath research specialty.  Confirmation bias much?  Keep searching MAC schools, MAAC schools, Missouri Valley schools, CAA schools, etc., etc., etc.  Miami is just about the only school without it, even though they do have it courtside, and i think the crap that is Millet and their crowd can explain that!

The first two MAAC schools I checked Canisius and Fairfield don't.  My bet is that there are more than I think and less than you think that require the contribution.  My gut feeling is that unless we have a dramatic run of success, season ticket orders for premium seats will continue to go down as prices go up.  Not sure what the break point is but there is one.  For those of you in the platinum section ($100 per seat per year contribution - at what price would you give up those seats for less expensive ones?  That would be a good poll since you can vote anonymously.

Excellent points Love,

I agree that college sports, particularly football and basketball are more like businesses now and days. And instead of complaining about prices either find a way to pony up the extra money or sit somewhere else and donate the same amount of money they have been.

The other option?
Play nothing but regional body bag games like Buffalo did a few years back..

The pros? Higher competition, playing teams such as OSU, Kentucky, Louisville, Indiana, Purdue, etc. where fans could still go to the games, a few would be capable of winning (Indiana, UK, UL) and Ohio gets some nice pay checks to pay the bills.

The Cons? Getting beaten up four weeks in a row before conference play, loss of home games, loss of a tune up game. But if nobody wants to make a few sacrifices this is what we might have to look at.

I agree that if a balance is found in the basketball games it might peak interest. I know a while ago it was brought up that Georgetown wanted a rematch with us. Could there be a possibility that if Georgetown was desperate enough to basically save face, could Ohio find a way to have that game played in the Convo? I know I can't speak for people but I'm sure fans would be more likely to make the drive down 33 to see the Bobcats play Georgetown then someone like Norfolk State.