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Topic: Ohio to the A-10
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djfornaismith2011
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Posted: 4/21/2011 6:57 PM
Since it has become vogue to join the MAC in only football, why not join the A-10 in all other sports (courtesy to Orlando Cat for the idea)? Our basketball prestige would skyrocket overnight and set up natural rivalries with Dayton and Xavier yearly. Hell, we can even invite Miami to come with us. If we're being honest, Ohio and Miami are head and shoulders above the rest of the conference in terms of academics, school pride and athletic tradition.

It is getting a bit old being (from what I once heard on here) the pretty girls at the fat girl party and the time has come to be proactive. With the athletic landscape shifting all over America, this is the time to make a move. The Atlantic 10 would be ready with open arms, given the fact that they've had expansion fever in recent years and that we'd be a top-half basketball school right away with our facilities and tradition. Travel would be a bit more of a stretch but would be off-set by the three- and four-bid NCAA appearance money spread throughout the conference, and the "minor" sports would benefit as well.
Tim Burke
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Posted: 4/21/2011 7:47 PM
djfornaismith2011 wrote:expand_more
Travel would be a bit more of a stretch but would be off-set by the three- and four-bid NCAA appearance money spread throughout the conference, and the "minor" sports would benefit as well.


Oh, yeah, that extra $50k a year would go far.
Ohio '99 EMU '00 USF '08(?)
Alan Swank
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Posted: 4/21/2011 9:25 PM
Not to mention that they have five sports that we don't even field.  I guess this is a 4 - 20 post.
JSF
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Posted: 4/22/2011 8:10 AM
The MAC has a number of sports we don't field, too.
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brucecuth
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Posted: 4/22/2011 2:58 PM
yeah, well, maybe when Athens' population gets to around 200,000... 
JAF
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Posted: 4/22/2011 6:07 PM
St, Bonaventure, NY, Kingston, RI and Amherst, MA are not exactly the population centers of the world.  Think outside of the box people...
brucecuth
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Posted: 4/22/2011 7:45 PM
UMASS (Amherst) is the flagship campus of the state university system.  URI Kingston is the main state university campus in Rhode Island.  Each gets the requisite media attention throughout the state, consideration in the legislature, etc.  They are not at all like Ohio in those respects.

St. Bony is a lot like Ohio.  It's in the middle of nowhere and gets virtually no statewide media coverage, unless something goes wrong.  My guess is the A-10 powers that be don't want another St. Bony...heck, for all we know they might be just as happy if St. Bony left and joined the MAC.

Of course, even if Ohio was invited to the A-10, and there is absolutely no indication on this board or anywhere else that such action is under consideration, there would be that pesky question about what do to with football.  A-10 football is not BCS football...'cuz they don't even have conference football anymore.      
Last Edited: 4/22/2011 8:06:36 PM by brucecuth
MedinaCat
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Posted: 4/23/2011 1:28 AM
UMass and URI are more like Kent State and Akron in terms of shelf space placement in the sports media store. Boston pro sports dominate with BC getting the next level of attention. I like adding UMass, but its apples and oranges in comparing "flagships."
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/25/2011 9:46 AM
JAF wrote:expand_more
St, Bonaventure, NY, Kingston, RI and Amherst, MA are not exactly the population centers of the world.  Think outside of the box people...


It doesn't take too long to run into millions of people when you drive away from Amherst or Kingston....

If I was the A-10 and was looking to expand into Ohio, I'd look at Cleveland State, Akron, and Kent State.  Ohio University is in a weak position.  The university is not interested in running a serious division I athletics program.  And, we bring nothing to the table in terms of expanding a conferences geographic reach.
Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....
Last Edited: 4/25/2011 9:48:49 AM by Ohio69
KyleWvr13
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Posted: 4/26/2011 11:09 AM

Last Edited: 4/26/2011 11:11:12 AM by KyleWvr13
JAF
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Posted: 4/26/2011 12:51 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
St, Bonaventure, NY, Kingston, RI and Amherst, MA are not exactly the population centers of the world.  Think outside of the box people...


It doesn't take too long to run into millions of people when you drive away from Amherst or Kingston....

If I was the A-10 and was looking to expand into Ohio, I'd look at Cleveland State, Akron, and Kent State.  Ohio University is in a weak position.  The university is not interested in running a serious division I athletics program.  And, we bring nothing to the table in terms of expanding a conferences geographic reach.


I understand the in some respects we are geographically challenged, but we do have pretty easy access to a major city/media market (Columbus).  I also understand that Columbus is mainly an OSU market as well, BUT Ohio has much to offer in terms of facilities, name recognition, academics, etc. and has a niche in any major media market in the State.  My point is that our institution is not a one trick pony and has many selling points.  I want our administration to challenge conventional wisdom because I am confident when stacked up with most A10 or C-USA schools, we would fair very favorably in many areas.  I want the increased visibility for my institution because in many ways, I think it enhances my degree on a national front and helps to garner support from potentially uninterested Alumni.  I don't see how we will do any of those things if we continue to be the shiniest trailer (or one of the two) in the park. 
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/26/2011 12:56 PM
JAF wrote:expand_more
St, Bonaventure, NY, Kingston, RI and Amherst, MA are not exactly the population centers of the world.  Think outside of the box people...


It doesn't take too long to run into millions of people when you drive away from Amherst or Kingston....

If I was the A-10 and was looking to expand into Ohio, I'd look at Cleveland State, Akron, and Kent State.  Ohio University is in a weak position.  The university is not interested in running a serious division I athletics program.  And, we bring nothing to the table in terms of expanding a conferences geographic reach.


I understand the in some respects we are geographically challenged, but we do have pretty easy access to a major city/media market (Columbus).  I also understand that Columbus is mainly an OSU market as well, BUT Ohio has much to offer in terms of facilities, name recognition, academics, etc. and has a niche in any major media market in the State.  My point is that our institution is not a one trick pony and has many selling points.  I want our administration to challenge conventional wisdom because I am confident when stacked up with most A10 or C-USA schools, we would fair very favorably in many areas.  I want the increased visibility for my institution because in many ways, I think it enhances my degree on a national front and helps to garner support from potentially uninterested Alumni.  I don't see how we will do any of those things if we continue to be the shiniest trailer (or one of the two) in the park. 


I don't disagree.  My view is that until the university is willing to spend more money on athletics, none of this can happen.
Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....
JSF
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Posted: 4/26/2011 1:42 PM
You make it sound like we have all this money we're simply refusing to spend on athletics.  That is not the case.
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Ohio69
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Posted: 4/27/2011 10:44 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
You make it sound like we have all this money we're simply refusing to spend on athletics.  That is not the case.


Well, I guess it could sound that way.  But, I think my opinion is still pretty valid.  All this talk of conference moves is not realistic unless the university decides to spend more on athletics.

I've said before that I think OU should spend about $3 million more on athletics.  But I also have crazy ideas like increasing enrollment, right sizing academics, and etc....
Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....
KyleWvr13
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Posted: 4/27/2011 1:39 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
But I also have crazy ideas like increasing enrollment, right sizing academics, and etc....


Increasing enrollment opens up a whole new can of worms.  Where do you put the new students in class rooms? dorms? dinning halls? If you wanted to increase enrollment to seriously help the athletic budget, you need to spend $30 million elsewhere to facilitate all of the new students.
Last Edited: 4/27/2011 1:39:43 PM by KyleWvr13
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/27/2011 3:28 PM
I wouldn't increase enrollment just for athletics...  but I hear you.  It can get complicated.  That's partly why I call it a crazy idea.
Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....
JSF
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Posted: 4/27/2011 3:41 PM
I thought we have been increasing enrollment.
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giacomo
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Posted: 4/28/2011 12:00 PM
It won't happen. They are comfortable in the MAC. I recall somebody years ago saying that Vernon Alden had big plans to expand the university. That's one of the reasons he pushed for the convo. Think about how ambitious that was in 1967 when Grover was only 6 or7 years old. I had heard he set his sights on getting bigger than Ohio State. It may sound silly, but he wanted to grow in a big way.
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Posted: 4/28/2011 2:08 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
It won't happen. They are comfortable in the MAC. I recall somebody years ago saying that Vernon Alden had big plans to expand the university. That's one of the reasons he pushed for the convo. Think about how ambitious that was in 1967 when Grover was only 6 or7 years old. I had heard he set his sights on getting bigger than Ohio State. It may sound silly, but he wanted to grow in a big way.


That is why I am calling for a challenge of conventional wisdom.  The jump to a little bit of a stronger basketball conferenece is not a stretch and to someone else's point, why can't we be football only in the MAC for a few years.  Seems like others have done it successfully and moved on to bigger and better things.  Think of it as an investment in the future of our University.  I have the audacity of hope.
Big Willy
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Posted: 4/28/2011 2:50 PM
What makes anyone think the A-10 wants to expand? I think most schools (if they told the truth) would like to get back to 12 teams. I haven't heard anything from the commissioner about expansion either.
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Posted: 4/28/2011 4:06 PM
Big Willy wrote:expand_more
What makes anyone think the A-10 wants to expand? I think most schools (if they told the truth) would like to get back to 12 teams. I haven't heard anything from the commissioner about expansion either.


FWIW---

When I stated that Ohio should stay MAC football and join the A-10 for all other sports, it was just a tongue-in-cheek comment about the recent trend of joining the MAC in football only with the (pretty) clear intent of moving on in a few years while to greener pastures, while keeping all other sports in a (most notably basketball) in another conference.

All that being said---

I do think if Ohio Athletics ever wants a real shot at becoming more prevalent on the 'national scene,' we need to look at the best way to help the basketball team.

NCAA Tournament Wins > GMAC Bowl Victories.
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Posted: 4/29/2011 1:36 PM
KyleWvr13 wrote:expand_more
But I also have crazy ideas like increasing enrollment, right sizing academics, and etc....


Increasing enrollment opens up a whole new can of worms.  Where do you put the new students in class rooms? dorms? dinning halls? If you wanted to increase enrollment to seriously help the athletic budget, you need to spend $30 million elsewhere to facilitate all of the new students.


On-campus enrollment at all schools is likely to stay the same or even drop over the next 20 years thanks to distance learning.  I think costs are likely to cause a lot of kids to learn from home.  That's really too bad...kids learn a lot about themselves and about life by being away from home.
We will get by.
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We will survive.

perimeterpost
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Posted: 4/29/2011 10:18 PM
In another thread someone posted the attendance numbers for the top 100 D1 bball teams last year, here's how OHIO stacks up against the A10-

27. Dayton 12,567
44. Xavier 10,098
84. St. Louis 6,299
87. Charlotte 6,069
89. Richmond 5,959
90. Temple 5,925
99. OHIO 5,599
101.+ Duquesne <5,524
101.+ Fordham <5,524
101.+ G Washington <5,524
101.+ LaSalle <5,524
101.+ UMASS <5,524
101.+ Rhode Island <5,524
101.+ St. Joseph's <5,524
101.+ St. Bonnaventure <5,524

It would be interesting to see what kind of boost we would get from a. playing in a higher profile conf., b. playing Dayton and Xavier every year, and c. keeping Miami, Kent and Akron on the OOC schedule. Unlike football where our current attendance and potential future attendance are a deal killer for moving to a bigger conf, our current and potential future attendance in bball would probably be seen as plus.

I would also add, instead of going to the A10 for all sports but football I think it would make more sense to be A10 for bball only. I almost think you could make a compelling case that swapping OHIO out for one of those teams would be a step up.  I know TV market seems to be the all mighty factor, but, for example, is Fordham really bringing in huge NYC numbers? Or would the Philly market really suffer if they lost LaSalle or St Joe? Does St Bonnie even have a TV market?

I'm not well versed on the academic standards of these schools but I would think OHIO would hold its own in that category too. When you ad up our attendance numbers, our facilities, our academics and our name recognition what seems like a crazy suggestion isn't completely crazy, hypothetically speaking.
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Last Edited: 4/29/2011 10:37:54 PM by perimeterpost
JAF
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Posted: 4/30/2011 6:53 AM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
In another thread someone posted the attendance numbers for the top 100 D1 bball teams last year, here's how OHIO stacks up against the A10-

27. Dayton 12,567
44. Xavier 10,098
84. St. Louis 6,299
87. Charlotte 6,069
89. Richmond 5,959
90. Temple 5,925
99. OHIO 5,599
101.+ Duquesne <5,524
101.+ Fordham <5,524
101.+ G Washington <5,524
101.+ LaSalle <5,524
101.+ UMASS <5,524
101.+ Rhode Island <5,524
101.+ St. Joseph's <5,524
101.+ St. Bonnaventure <5,524

It would be interesting to see what kind of boost we would get from a. playing in a higher profile conf., b. playing Dayton and Xavier every year, and c. keeping Miami, Kent and Akron on the OOC schedule. Unlike football where our current attendance and potential future attendance are a deal killer for moving to a bigger conf, our current and potential future attendance in bball would probably be seen as plus.

I would also add, instead of going to the A10 for all sports but football I think it would make more sense to be A10 for bball only. I almost think you could make a compelling case that swapping OHIO out for one of those teams would be a step up.  I know TV market seems to be the all mighty factor, but, for example, is Fordham really bringing in huge NYC numbers? Or would the Philly market really suffer if they lost LaSalle or St Joe? Does St Bonnie even have a TV market?

I'm not well versed on the academic standards of these schools but I would think OHIO would hold its own in that category too. When you ad up our attendance numbers, our facilities, our academics and our name recognition what seems like a crazy suggestion isn't completely crazy, hypothetically speaking.


Now THAT is the kind of thinking that I am talking about.  The A10 may not be thinking of new membership, but the Bobcats can get Athens on their mind with a creative enough campaign.
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/30/2011 10:48 AM
Not that it matters, but I know for a fact that Xavier number isn't correct. The may have reported that, but the actualy butts-in-seats numbers weren't that high. Maybe the year prior, but not this past season. Still nice to see how Ohio stacks up.
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