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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade (tm)
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 12/2/2024 2:32 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
Numbers don't lie, but there are qualitative aspects that you can only see by watching the game that are important to consider. There's no statistic for rebounds not gained despite getting two hands on the ball. Should we view an illegal screen differently than we view getting the ball stolen from your dribble? I think you can. By high school varsity you should have the hand fundamentals to hold onto the basketball if you get two hands on the ball, especially if you're the biggest guy on the floor. By high school varsity, or earlier, you should have legal screen fundamentals down. These problems proved to be repetitive.

For kicks, here are Vic's turnovers vs Robert Morris

-Held ball on a blocked shot. I thought this was a soft call and the ball came out of his hands.
-Bad dump off pass in the post when he should have completed the shot attempt.
-Defender smacked the ball out of his hands and off Pav on a handoff.
-Off ball offensive foul trying to get position in the post
-Travel

So really, two that were mistakes. I'm more forgiving on the others.
No doubt that some turnovers are more frustrating than others. And to some extent, Searls should have a higher turnover rate than Wiz did specifically because some of the offense actually runs through him. And a lot of Wiz's turnovers were "off ball" turnovers (like moving screens, etc).
M.D.W.S.T
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Posted: 12/2/2024 2:47 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Numbers don't lie, but there are qualitative aspects that you can only see by watching the game that are important to consider. There's no statistic for rebounds not gained despite getting two hands on the ball. Should we view an illegal screen differently than we view getting the ball stolen from your dribble? I think you can. By high school varsity you should have the hand fundamentals to hold onto the basketball if you get two hands on the ball, especially if you're the biggest guy on the floor. By high school varsity, or earlier, you should have legal screen fundamentals down. These problems proved to be repetitive.

For kicks, here are Vic's turnovers vs Robert Morris

-Held ball on a blocked shot. I thought this was a soft call and the ball came out of his hands.
-Bad dump off pass in the post when he should have completed the shot attempt.
-Defender smacked the ball out of his hands and off Pav on a handoff.
-Off ball offensive foul trying to get position in the post
-Travel

So really, two that were mistakes. I'm more forgiving on the others.
No doubt that some turnovers are more frustrating than others. And to some extent, Searls should have a higher turnover rate than Wiz did specifically because some of the offense actually runs through him. And a lot of Wiz's turnovers were "off ball" turnovers (like moving screens, etc).
Excellent points, gentleman.
FearLeon
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Posted: 12/2/2024 4:55 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
Numbers don't lie, but there are qualitative aspects that you can only see by watching the game that are important to consider. There's no statistic for rebounds not gained despite getting two hands on the ball. Should we view an illegal screen differently than we view getting the ball stolen from your dribble? I think you can. By high school varsity you should have the hand fundamentals to hold onto the basketball if you get two hands on the ball, especially if you're the biggest guy on the floor. By high school varsity, or earlier, you should have legal screen fundamentals down. These problems proved to be repetitive.

For kicks, here are Vic's turnovers vs Robert Morris

-Held ball on a blocked shot. I thought this was a soft call and the ball came out of his hands.
-Bad dump off pass in the post when he should have completed the shot attempt.
-Defender smacked the ball out of his hands and off Pav on a handoff.
-Off ball offensive foul trying to get position in the post
-Travel

So really, two that were mistakes. I'm more forgiving on the others.
No doubt that some turnovers are more frustrating than others. And to some extent, Searls should have a higher turnover rate than Wiz did specifically because some of the offense actually runs through him. And a lot of Wiz's turnovers were "off ball" turnovers (like moving screens, etc).
Excellent points, gentleman.
Something that hasn't been discussed yet with numbers. +/-

#TheUpgrade (tm) was +25 in the Robert Morris game. I'd like to know what the best +/- The Whiz ever posted against a Division-One opponent. I am genuinely curious.

You give me +25 for a game and I can handle five turnovers from #TheUpgrade (tm).
#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT #NoMissesAllowed #NoOtherTeamInAmericaFlexesLikeOhio #11Months
Last Edited: 12/2/2024 8:50:34 PM by FearLeon
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 12/2/2024 6:31 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Something that hasn't been discussed yet with numbers. +/-

#TheUpgrade (tm) was +25 in the Robert Morris game. I'd like to know what the best +/- The Whiz ever posted against a Division-One opponent. I am generally curious.

You give me +25 for a game and I can handle five turnovers from #TheUpgrade (tm).
If anybody knows a source that makes per-game +/- numbers available, I'm happy to do the research. The box scores I can find for Ohio don't have +/-. I use sports-reference.com for the most part, and they use BPM because they consider it to be more meaningful and less messy than an individual game +/-.

Searls' BPM vs. Robert Morris was 3.1. Wiz had 7 games for Ohio where he played 14+ minutes and had a BPM of more than 3.1. His highest BPM was vs. Austin Peay & next highest was 13 vs. Marshall.

But they're pretty different stats, because it's not just about points. It's trying to measure impact based on box score stats and also takes into account fg%, rebounds, blocks, steals, fouls, etc.
greencat
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Posted: 12/2/2024 7:56 PM
My favorite Wiz memory was his back-to-back dunks vs Fiami.

Is Searls going to have back-to-back dunk? Or any dunks?
FearLeon
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Posted: 12/2/2024 8:58 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Something that hasn't been discussed yet with numbers. +/-

#TheUpgrade (tm) was +25 in the Robert Morris game. I'd like to know what the best +/- The Whiz ever posted against a Division-One opponent. I am generally curious.

You give me +25 for a game and I can handle five turnovers from #TheUpgrade (tm).
If anybody knows a source that makes per-game +/- numbers available, I'm happy to do the research.
https://www.statbroadcast.com/events/archive.php?gid=ohio
#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT #NoMissesAllowed #NoOtherTeamInAmericaFlexesLikeOhio #11Months
100%Cat
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Posted: 12/3/2024 8:59 AM
I'm just waiting on the "Big Vic Energy" t-shirts...
FJC31
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Posted: 12/3/2024 9:00 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
I'm just waiting on the "Big Vic Energy" t-shirts...
Honestly, brilliant.
FJC31
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Posted: 12/3/2024 9:07 AM
At the end of the day, this is less about Wiz vs Searls and more about roster construction deficiency as discussed in the bigs thread.

Neither should be looked at as THE solution, but complimentary pieces to the solution. We're starting two stretch-4's who can get outrebounded by our guards any given night.

Regardless if we see continuation of how we rebounded against RMU, hopefully this season is a wakeup call for the staff on paint presence.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 12/3/2024 10:13 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Something that hasn't been discussed yet with numbers. +/-

#TheUpgrade (tm) was +25 in the Robert Morris game. I'd like to know what the best +/- The Whiz ever posted against a Division-One opponent. I am generally curious.

You give me +25 for a game and I can handle five turnovers from #TheUpgrade (tm).
If anybody knows a source that makes per-game +/- numbers available, I'm happy to do the research.
https://www.statbroadcast.com/events/archive.php?gid=ohio
Thanks. Not sure why, but it seems like this is missing games. I just kind of spot checked a few of Wiz's better games/games we won by a lot.

See he was +14 against Stetson. That's the highest plus minus I've found, but I only spot checked 4 of Wiz's better games.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 12/3/2024 10:20 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Finally, without doing too much research (none, actually), I doubt Wiz ever had team highs in points and rebounds at the halftime break like Vic did today.
Without looking too hard, Wiz led the team in points in the second half (he scored all 15 of his points in the second half) against Marshall in 2022. DWIII outrebounded him 6 to 3, but Wiz was +9 in a game we lost by 14 points.

Which is all just to say, small sample sizes basically tell you nothing about a player's actual impact.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 12/3/2024 10:56 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Which is all just to say, small sample sizes basically tell you nothing about a player's actual impact.
Yeah. Or it tells you that one person has more time on his hands or is more motivated (or both) than another.
MonroeClassmate
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Posted: 12/3/2024 10:59 AM
"It sure would have been nice to have Searls" or "Dreamin, I'm always dreamin"

No, it sure would have been nice to have Freeman for four years as a Bobcat. You know, the under recruited walk-on POY.

Searls is a grad transfer, a more proven commodity experience wise. Wiznitzer was a young transfer from a BIG TIME program--a gamble. It paid little dividends.

Searls was an Ashland Eagle, true to his school going all four years there, graduating and having an extra year comes to OHIO. Welcome Vic. We love having you.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 12/3/2024 11:44 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Which is all just to say, small sample sizes basically tell you nothing about a player's actual impact.
Yeah. Or it tells you that one person has more time on his hands or is more motivated (or both) than another.
I had no idea you were so busy. It's an honor that you devote what little free time you have to following me around on this site trying to pick fights.
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