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Topic:  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums

Topic:  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/13/2018 4:11:48 PM 
I'm wondering if the move to ESPN+ will provide more opportunities to play on Saturdays, like the Sun Belt did this past season. I think the midweek games for 2018 were scheduled before ESPN+ really got ramped up and put MAC games on that platform.
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/13/2018 4:26:21 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
...
I think the MAC might be the worst football league in FBS in terms of national perception.

I don't think the midweek games help.

Playing in front of empty stands on novelty nights for half your season isn't helping in my opinion.
...

I think the mid-week MACtion does raise the awareness of the MAC. It also gives people the perception that the stadiums are always empty. The combination is what got them on this list. If you ask yourself "who plays before mostly empty stadiums?", mid-week MACtion pushes some candidates into top-of-mind positions. There are no doubt some CUSA and Sunbelt schools that belong on this list, but the author may not know enough about them to know if they belong.


It raises awareness during weeknights when people are itching for football. I don't think for one iota it did anything to help people understand Buffalo was 9-1 at one point.

It's a promotional stunt that gets people to pay attention when there is nothing else going on.

I don't think it has any long-term value in raising the level of the league. I'm not saying the MAC is going to be the SEC someday ... or even the AAC. But I think it can elevate past the Sun Belt or CUSA in terms of quality?

CUSA is pretty bad .... I think we all agree. But they have weekend TV deals that I think the MAC can renegotiate into.

But I don't think they want to. I think they are all-in on the midweek stuff and they're content with being the CFB sideshow/freakshow. That's their thing. A novelty act.

To them ... that is what separates them from the pact. I think it's short-sighted and hurts the fan bases and the validity of some talented football being played in November.


I agree with this assessment, bshot44. I actually agree with every point. The part about hurting the fan base really hits home with my wife. She can launch into a 20-minute tirade any time I mention the weekday games. She keeps saying, "They don't give a damn about their fans. We should just stop buying season tickets and drop out of the OBC." So far I've resisted these pleas, but it is getting harder and harder. This year it was a bit easier because we were out of town for all the November games, and we enjoyed watching them in various sports bars across the fruited plain.


Where is the quantifiable evidence that the midweek games hurt the "fan base"? Are midweek games harder to attend? Sure, but how many more people are exposed OHIO football because of them? If this was as horrible as you people make it sound I am sure the University Presidents (starting with the coaches) would tell the MAC office NO.


I guess that depends on what you value more?

An alum in Wyoming that is able to watch Ohio on TV on a Wednesday ... in an empty Peden Stadium

Or a filled Peden Stadium with 20,000+ on a Saturday afternoon where you (hopefully) are building a fan base that will continue to support Ohio with money after graduation or as an alum who can actually attend games?

What happens in 10-15 years when the alum that didn't attend football are out in the world .... and they don't have any memories of attending Ohio football games or caring that much because Ohio/MAC didn't provide any sort of atmosphere to gravitate towards? For them, it was simply something that was on TV in the background on Wednesday night at The Pub for Aquarium Night (do they still do that?!!?)

Anyhow ... I just don't see the value in playing 4 or 5 midweek games a year. Two seems sufficient and is a healthy compromise.

It's a watered down promotional stunt when they flood the weeknights with three or four games a night sometimes. It used to be to showcase the league's best ..... but has turned into a cash grab. Plain and simple.


Problem is, what is convent for you or me is NOT what is convent for the larger fan base. Where is OHIO getting exposed to the most potential fans? Where are the most potential recruits and students being exposed to OHIO University and OHIO Football?


I think you need to look at the pro/con comparison to weeknight games:

The Pros:
An additional nearly $700K per year from ESPN directly to Ohio
Higher national TV audience
Better national sports highlights visibility

The Cons:
More difficult for in-person attendance
Less revenue for ticket sales/concessions
Increased TV/coverage competition from other schools

To me, it seems like the financial advantage is clear. From a fan perspective, you do lose that in-game advantage on Saturdays, which is not ideal. But there is an entirely different base of fans in other markets that can watch on TV, as well as non-Ohio fans that would watch on TV because they like football/have ESPN on. So you have to balance that out.

In my opinion, the MAC actually was ahead of the curve in working out this deal to get $700M each year for each school WHILE getting national primetime TV games. Had this not happened, we'd be cursing the MAC for not adapting and trying to compete on Saturdays with the other big schools.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/13/2018 4:53:51 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
...
I think the MAC might be the worst football league in FBS in terms of national perception.

I don't think the midweek games help.

Playing in front of empty stands on novelty nights for half your season isn't helping in my opinion.
...

I think the mid-week MACtion does raise the awareness of the MAC. It also gives people the perception that the stadiums are always empty. The combination is what got them on this list. If you ask yourself "who plays before mostly empty stadiums?", mid-week MACtion pushes some candidates into top-of-mind positions. There are no doubt some CUSA and Sunbelt schools that belong on this list, but the author may not know enough about them to know if they belong.


It raises awareness during weeknights when people are itching for football. I don't think for one iota it did anything to help people understand Buffalo was 9-1 at one point.

It's a promotional stunt that gets people to pay attention when there is nothing else going on.

I don't think it has any long-term value in raising the level of the league. I'm not saying the MAC is going to be the SEC someday ... or even the AAC. But I think it can elevate past the Sun Belt or CUSA in terms of quality?

CUSA is pretty bad .... I think we all agree. But they have weekend TV deals that I think the MAC can renegotiate into.

But I don't think they want to. I think they are all-in on the midweek stuff and they're content with being the CFB sideshow/freakshow. That's their thing. A novelty act.

To them ... that is what separates them from the pact. I think it's short-sighted and hurts the fan bases and the validity of some talented football being played in November.


I agree with this assessment, bshot44. I actually agree with every point. The part about hurting the fan base really hits home with my wife. She can launch into a 20-minute tirade any time I mention the weekday games. She keeps saying, "They don't give a damn about their fans. We should just stop buying season tickets and drop out of the OBC." So far I've resisted these pleas, but it is getting harder and harder. This year it was a bit easier because we were out of town for all the November games, and we enjoyed watching them in various sports bars across the fruited plain.


Where is the quantifiable evidence that the midweek games hurt the "fan base"? Are midweek games harder to attend? Sure, but how many more people are exposed OHIO football because of them? If this was as horrible as you people make it sound I am sure the University Presidents (starting with the coaches) would tell the MAC office NO.


I guess that depends on what you value more?

An alum in Wyoming that is able to watch Ohio on TV on a Wednesday ... in an empty Peden Stadium

Or a filled Peden Stadium with 20,000+ on a Saturday afternoon where you (hopefully) are building a fan base that will continue to support Ohio with money after graduation or as an alum who can actually attend games?

What happens in 10-15 years when the alum that didn't attend football are out in the world .... and they don't have any memories of attending Ohio football games or caring that much because Ohio/MAC didn't provide any sort of atmosphere to gravitate towards? For them, it was simply something that was on TV in the background on Wednesday night at The Pub for Aquarium Night (do they still do that?!!?)

Anyhow ... I just don't see the value in playing 4 or 5 midweek games a year. Two seems sufficient and is a healthy compromise.

It's a watered down promotional stunt when they flood the weeknights with three or four games a night sometimes. It used to be to showcase the league's best ..... but has turned into a cash grab. Plain and simple.


I think you might be forgetting something important: very few Ohio alums/students care about Ohio football. And that was the case back when every game was on a Saturday, too. Student attendance at football games has always been poor. When I was there (01-05) people were way more likely to be on Court Street or watching Ohio State than they were to be at Peden. Nobody really cares, and that's not because the games are on a Wednesday.

It's because the games don't matter even a little bit. Nobody at OU grew up watching OU football. They don't have any sense of the rivalries, or any real emotional attachment to it. It doesn't represent anything, and the team plays in a minor conference against unsexy teams, none of whom are eligible for a national championship. There are simply not stakes that anybody cares about. The best case scenario is you win a game in an empty stadium in Detroit for the right to play in an empty stadium in Mobile or Boise.

So that being the case, they should play the games whenever there's the most money to be made. Anytime OU's on TV, the vast majority of eyeballs come from gamblers. Very few people actually care about Ohio football. It's a tiny market that doesn't generate enough revenue to matter to anybody. And so, to drum up eyeballs they need to play when nobody else is so gamblers and football junkies choose to watch Eastern Michigan vs. Ball State because there's not a Big 10, SEC, or ACC game to be found.

It's been explained to me that logistically this isn't feasible, but you know what would actually garner student interest? If Ohio were an FCS powerhouse that competed for a championship. What do you think would be better attended? Or watched by more alums? Ohio in the national championship game against James Madison, Colgate, or North Dakota State or Ohio's bowl game against whoever we're playing wherever we're playing them?

Last Edited: 12/13/2018 4:59:10 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/13/2018 6:17:38 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
We have been on their list in the past


Again, since I will never click "next" on one of these, is there serious content from real research?



This article is not serious journalism.

They list Vanderbilt's stadium as the worst in college football? This is the one Tennessee State plays at five miles from Vandy. It's so bad that it is nicknamed "the hole" -
https://stadiumjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TSU...

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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/13/2018 7:55:30 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
...
I think the MAC might be the worst football league in FBS in terms of national perception.

I don't think the midweek games help.

Playing in front of empty stands on novelty nights for half your season isn't helping in my opinion.
...

I think the mid-week MACtion does raise the awareness of the MAC. It also gives people the perception that the stadiums are always empty. The combination is what got them on this list. If you ask yourself "who plays before mostly empty stadiums?", mid-week MACtion pushes some candidates into top-of-mind positions. There are no doubt some CUSA and Sunbelt schools that belong on this list, but the author may not know enough about them to know if they belong.


It raises awareness during weeknights when people are itching for football. I don't think for one iota it did anything to help people understand Buffalo was 9-1 at one point.

It's a promotional stunt that gets people to pay attention when there is nothing else going on.

I don't think it has any long-term value in raising the level of the league. I'm not saying the MAC is going to be the SEC someday ... or even the AAC. But I think it can elevate past the Sun Belt or CUSA in terms of quality?

CUSA is pretty bad .... I think we all agree. But they have weekend TV deals that I think the MAC can renegotiate into.

But I don't think they want to. I think they are all-in on the midweek stuff and they're content with being the CFB sideshow/freakshow. That's their thing. A novelty act.

To them ... that is what separates them from the pact. I think it's short-sighted and hurts the fan bases and the validity of some talented football being played in November.


I agree with this assessment, bshot44. I actually agree with every point. The part about hurting the fan base really hits home with my wife. She can launch into a 20-minute tirade any time I mention the weekday games. She keeps saying, "They don't give a damn about their fans. We should just stop buying season tickets and drop out of the OBC." So far I've resisted these pleas, but it is getting harder and harder. This year it was a bit easier because we were out of town for all the November games, and we enjoyed watching them in various sports bars across the fruited plain.


Where is the quantifiable evidence that the midweek games hurt the "fan base"? Are midweek games harder to attend? Sure, but how many more people are exposed OHIO football because of them? If this was as horrible as you people make it sound I am sure the University Presidents (starting with the coaches) would tell the MAC office NO.


I guess that depends on what you value more?

An alum in Wyoming that is able to watch Ohio on TV on a Wednesday ... in an empty Peden Stadium

Or a filled Peden Stadium with 20,000+ on a Saturday afternoon where you (hopefully) are building a fan base that will continue to support Ohio with money after graduation or as an alum who can actually attend games?

What happens in 10-15 years when the alum that didn't attend football are out in the world .... and they don't have any memories of attending Ohio football games or caring that much because Ohio/MAC didn't provide any sort of atmosphere to gravitate towards? For them, it was simply something that was on TV in the background on Wednesday night at The Pub for Aquarium Night (do they still do that?!!?)

Anyhow ... I just don't see the value in playing 4 or 5 midweek games a year. Two seems sufficient and is a healthy compromise.

It's a watered down promotional stunt when they flood the weeknights with three or four games a night sometimes. It used to be to showcase the league's best ..... but has turned into a cash grab. Plain and simple.


I think you might be forgetting something important: very few Ohio alums/students care about Ohio football. And that was the case back when every game was on a Saturday, too. Student attendance at football games has always been poor. When I was there (01-05) people were way more likely to be on Court Street or watching Ohio State than they were to be at Peden. Nobody really cares, and that's not because the games are on a Wednesday.

It's because the games don't matter even a little bit. Nobody at OU grew up watching OU football. They don't have any sense of the rivalries, or any real emotional attachment to it. It doesn't represent anything, and the team plays in a minor conference against unsexy teams, none of whom are eligible for a national championship. There are simply not stakes that anybody cares about. The best case scenario is you win a game in an empty stadium in Detroit for the right to play in an empty stadium in Mobile or Boise.

So that being the case, they should play the games whenever there's the most money to be made. Anytime OU's on TV, the vast majority of eyeballs come from gamblers. Very few people actually care about Ohio football. It's a tiny market that doesn't generate enough revenue to matter to anybody. And so, to drum up eyeballs they need to play when nobody else is so gamblers and football junkies choose to watch Eastern Michigan vs. Ball State because there's not a Big 10, SEC, or ACC game to be found.

It's been explained to me that logistically this isn't feasible, but you know what would actually garner student interest? If Ohio were an FCS powerhouse that competed for a championship. What do you think would be better attended? Or watched by more alums? Ohio in the national championship game against James Madison, Colgate, or North Dakota State or Ohio's bowl game against whoever we're playing wherever we're playing them?



You raise a good point, BLSOS. Yes, I’d have to say that 99% of Ohio students and alumni don’t care about Ohio football. But I don’t think it’s because the games don’t matter. I think it’s because most just don’t care, period. Students didn’t care when I was there in the early-mid 80’s like they don’t care now. And students left after the Marching 110 played at halftime then too. Ohio’s just not a football school. We BAers are the outliers. And if Ohio went FCS even fewer people would attend games or even care.

Last Edited: 12/13/2018 7:59:07 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/14/2018 12:45:39 AM 
Wasn't that long ago Peden was 22k+ for every home game. Poor scheduling, no championships & midweek overkill has been a recipe for waning interest.

I would think that is a nice accomplishment to average a true 20k+ per game.

I agree the ESPN money is vital ... but why there can't be a compromise to keep a couple weeknight games and give back some Saturday games is beyond me.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/14/2018 2:05:04 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Wasn't that long ago Peden was 22k+ for every home game. Poor scheduling, no championships & midweek overkill has been a recipe for waning interest.

I would think that is a nice accomplishment to average a true 20k+ per game.

I agree the ESPN money is vital ... but why there can't be a compromise to keep a couple weeknight games and give back some Saturday games is beyond me.


Averaging 20k per game would still put us in the bottom quarter of FBS teams. That we consider that an accomplishment is kind of the point. Our fan support maxes out at filling the 10th smallest stadium in the country.

Given that lack of interest, 700k from ESPN is a god send. I'm sure the AD would play at 4am on Christmas morning if ESPN asked them to.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/14/2018 2:38:38 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Wasn't that long ago Peden was 22k+ for every home game. Poor scheduling, no championships & midweek overkill has been a recipe for waning interest.

I would think that is a nice accomplishment to average a true 20k+ per game.

I agree the ESPN money is vital ... but why there can't be a compromise to keep a couple weeknight games and give back some Saturday games is beyond me.


Averaging 20k per game would still put us in the bottom quarter of FBS teams. That we consider that an accomplishment is kind of the point. Our fan support maxes out at filling the 10th smallest stadium in the country.

Given that lack of interest, 700k from ESPN is a god send. I'm sure the AD would play at 4am on Christmas morning if ESPN asked them to.


bshott44 harping "no championships" as a cause for decreasing attendance. Yet NIU with all there championships averaged 10.4k to Ohio's 16.2. Still their is cause for alarm as only two seasons ago Ohio was at 21.2k.

Last Edited: 12/14/2018 2:39:28 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/14/2018 3:01:38 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Wasn't that long ago Peden was 22k+ for every home game. Poor scheduling, no championships & midweek overkill has been a recipe for waning interest.

I would think that is a nice accomplishment to average a true 20k+ per game.

I agree the ESPN money is vital ... but why there can't be a compromise to keep a couple weeknight games and give back some Saturday games is beyond me.


Averaging 20k per game would still put us in the bottom quarter of FBS teams. That we consider that an accomplishment is kind of the point. Our fan support maxes out at filling the 10th smallest stadium in the country.

Given that lack of interest, 700k from ESPN is a god send. I'm sure the AD would play at 4am on Christmas morning if ESPN asked them to.


bshott44 harping "no championships" as a cause for decreasing attendance. Yet NIU with all there championships averaged 10.4k to Ohio's 16.2. Still their is cause for alarm as only two seasons ago Ohio was at 21.2k.



Yes ... because NIUs commuter campus is just like Athens. Your ability to look past the context is great.

NIU fan base so incredibly different than Ohio's. But you wouldn't notice.

Applaud the competition. Both fan bases should hold their head up high.
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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/14/2018 4:15:06 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Wasn't that long ago Peden was 22k+ for every home game. Poor scheduling, no championships & midweek overkill has been a recipe for waning interest.

I would think that is a nice accomplishment to average a true 20k+ per game.

I agree the ESPN money is vital ... but why there can't be a compromise to keep a couple weeknight games and give back some Saturday games is beyond me.


Averaging 20k per game would still put us in the bottom quarter of FBS teams. That we consider that an accomplishment is kind of the point. Our fan support maxes out at filling the 10th smallest stadium in the country.

Given that lack of interest, 700k from ESPN is a god send. I'm sure the AD would play at 4am on Christmas morning if ESPN asked them to.


bshott44 harping "no championships" as a cause for decreasing attendance. Yet NIU with all there championships averaged 10.4k to Ohio's 16.2. Still their is cause for alarm as only two seasons ago Ohio was at 21.2k.



Yes ... because NIUs commuter campus is just like Athens. Your ability to look past the context is great.

NIU fan base so incredibly different than Ohio's. But you wouldn't notice.

Applaud the competition. Both fan bases should hold their head up high.

Curious: Have you been to DeKalb? I hadn't until our midweek game there a couple years ago, and my friend, DeKalb is A LOT like Athens regarding proximity to a major metro area, as in...it is roughly the equivalent distance from the Loop as Athens is from Cowtown...and there are a lot of dorms on campus.

DeKalb is in the middle of nowhere, and by extension, a commuter campus it is not. The one thing DeKalb has as an advantage over Athens is that there are exponentially more people living within a 1h30m drive of DeKalb than there are living in proximity of Athens, but most of them are still a hefty drive through miles and miles of corn and soybean fields.

And as for fan bases, NIU's loyal fans (a la Attackers) HATE Rod Carey despite the fact he has won multiple MACC's, so I wouldn't use number of championships won as a barometer for likability or success of a football coach, nor would I use winning championships as a barometer for what drives attendance. If that were true, NIU would CRUSH others in the MAC, however they have lagged in attendance for years.

Last Edited: 12/14/2018 4:18:39 PM by D.A.

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And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/15/2018 12:22:25 AM 
D.A. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Wasn't that long ago Peden was 22k+ for every home game. Poor scheduling, no championships & midweek overkill has been a recipe for waning interest.

I would think that is a nice accomplishment to average a true 20k+ per game.

I agree the ESPN money is vital ... but why there can't be a compromise to keep a couple weeknight games and give back some Saturday games is beyond me.


Averaging 20k per game would still put us in the bottom quarter of FBS teams. That we consider that an accomplishment is kind of the point. Our fan support maxes out at filling the 10th smallest stadium in the country.

Given that lack of interest, 700k from ESPN is a god send. I'm sure the AD would play at 4am on Christmas morning if ESPN asked them to.


bshott44 harping "no championships" as a cause for decreasing attendance. Yet NIU with all there championships averaged 10.4k to Ohio's 16.2. Still their is cause for alarm as only two seasons ago Ohio was at 21.2k.



Yes ... because NIUs commuter campus is just like Athens. Your ability to look past the context is great.

NIU fan base so incredibly different than Ohio's. But you wouldn't notice.

Applaud the competition. Both fan bases should hold their head up high.

Curious: Have you been to DeKalb? I hadn't until our midweek game there a couple years ago, and my friend, DeKalb is A LOT like Athens regarding proximity to a major metro area, as in...it is roughly the equivalent distance from the Loop as Athens is from Cowtown...and there are a lot of dorms on campus.

DeKalb is in the middle of nowhere, and by extension, a commuter campus it is not. The one thing DeKalb has as an advantage over Athens is that there are exponentially more people living within a 1h30m drive of DeKalb than there are living in proximity of Athens, but most of them are still a hefty drive through miles and miles of corn and soybean fields.

And as for fan bases, NIU's loyal fans (a la Attackers) HATE Rod Carey despite the fact he has won multiple MACC's, so I wouldn't use number of championships won as a barometer for likability or success of a football coach, nor would I use winning championships as a barometer for what drives attendance. If that were true, NIU would CRUSH others in the MAC, however they have lagged in attendance for years.


miles for a midweek game?i guess the midweek stuff isn’t really a problem, if people really want to go they will.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/15/2018 12:32:58 PM 
A I recall, NIU's attendance peaked in the Novak years. Novak coached a long time, and built that program up from nothing, but he won no championships. After he left, NIU started winning championships, but also, their attendance started falling, and is now perhaps half or less of what it was.

I'm not tying those two factors together, by the way. I don't claim to understand the dynamics of NIU's attendance issue. I do know that they have tried a lot of things, some of which have been pointed out on this board. They have won championships. They have scheduled good teams, and released the names in a teasing promotion, where they revealed one future foe a day, as I recall, for a week. They had a promotional contest to design the logos for their new turf. Nothing seems to have worked. Their attendance just keeps sliding.

Maybe it's just that they are a parakeet in the coal mine, for the the whole decline we are now seeing in college football attendance as a whole, and they just started a little earlier. The only other guess I have is that about the time their attendance peaked, they started scheduling big games in Soldier Field, and as I recall, had attendance of about 60k at some. It's possible that when they did that, they burned bridges with some of the local merchants. Bars and restaurants in DeKalb no doubt benefit from home games, and taking those games to Soldier Field presumably cost them some dollars.

Last Edited: 12/16/2018 2:47:15 PM by L.C.

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/15/2018 8:57:59 PM 
L.C. wrote:
A I recall, NIU's attendance peaked in the Novak years. Novak coached a long time, and built that program up from nothing, but he won no championships. After he left, NIU started winning championships, but also, their attendance started falling, and is now perhaps half or less of what it was.

I'm not tying those two factors together, by the way. I don't claim to understand the dynamics of NIU's attendance issue. I do know that they have tried a lot of things, some of which have been pointed out on this board. They have won championships. They have scheduled good teams, and released the names in a teasing promotion, where they revealed one future foe a day, as I recall, fore a week. They had a promotional contest to design the logos for their new turf. Nothing seems to have worked. Their attendance just keeps sliding.

Maybe it's just that they are a parakeet in the coal mine, for the the whole decline we are now seeing in college football attendance as a whole, and they just started a little earlier. The only other guess I have is that about the time their attendance peaked, they started scheduling big games in Soldier Field, and as I recall, had attendance of about 60k at some. It's possible that when they did that, they burned bridges with some of the local merchants. Bars and restaurants in DeKalb no doubt benefit from home games, and taking those games to Soldier Field presumably cost them some dollars.


Paying the penalty, ticket buybacks, to bring sales to 15K per will cost em some more dollars.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/17/2018 1:32:34 PM 
D.A. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Wasn't that long ago Peden was 22k+ for every home game. Poor scheduling, no championships & midweek overkill has been a recipe for waning interest.

I would think that is a nice accomplishment to average a true 20k+ per game.

I agree the ESPN money is vital ... but why there can't be a compromise to keep a couple weeknight games and give back some Saturday games is beyond me.


Averaging 20k per game would still put us in the bottom quarter of FBS teams. That we consider that an accomplishment is kind of the point. Our fan support maxes out at filling the 10th smallest stadium in the country.

Given that lack of interest, 700k from ESPN is a god send. I'm sure the AD would play at 4am on Christmas morning if ESPN asked them to.


bshott44 harping "no championships" as a cause for decreasing attendance. Yet NIU with all there championships averaged 10.4k to Ohio's 16.2. Still their is cause for alarm as only two seasons ago Ohio was at 21.2k.



Yes ... because NIUs commuter campus is just like Athens. Your ability to look past the context is great.

NIU fan base so incredibly different than Ohio's. But you wouldn't notice.

Applaud the competition. Both fan bases should hold their head up high.

Curious: Have you been to DeKalb? I hadn't until our midweek game there a couple years ago, and my friend, DeKalb is A LOT like Athens regarding proximity to a major metro area, as in...it is roughly the equivalent distance from the Loop as Athens is from Cowtown...and there are a lot of dorms on campus.

DeKalb is in the middle of nowhere, and by extension, a commuter campus it is not. The one thing DeKalb has as an advantage over Athens is that there are exponentially more people living within a 1h30m drive of DeKalb than there are living in proximity of Athens, but most of them are still a hefty drive through miles and miles of corn and soybean fields.

And as for fan bases, NIU's loyal fans (a la Attackers) HATE Rod Carey despite the fact he has won multiple MACC's, so I wouldn't use number of championships won as a barometer for likability or success of a football coach, nor would I use winning championships as a barometer for what drives attendance. If that were true, NIU would CRUSH others in the MAC, however they have lagged in attendance for years.


NIU's campus situation is very similar to Athens. One advantage that NIU has over OU is that it doesn't need to compete for fans with a Big Ten team the way OU has to compete with OSU. Northwestern is good, but doesn't have a rabid fan base outside of Evanston. And Illinois is...well...Illinois. Still, there's not been an attendance bump at NIU due to their continued success in the MAC.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/18/2018 12:04:25 PM 
OhioStunter wrote:
D.A. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Wasn't that long ago Peden was 22k+ for every home game. Poor scheduling, no championships & midweek overkill has been a recipe for waning interest.

I would think that is a nice accomplishment to average a true 20k+ per game.

I agree the ESPN money is vital ... but why there can't be a compromise to keep a couple weeknight games and give back some Saturday games is beyond me.


Averaging 20k per game would still put us in the bottom quarter of FBS teams. That we consider that an accomplishment is kind of the point. Our fan support maxes out at filling the 10th smallest stadium in the country.

Given that lack of interest, 700k from ESPN is a god send. I'm sure the AD would play at 4am on Christmas morning if ESPN asked them to.


bshott44 harping "no championships" as a cause for decreasing attendance. Yet NIU with all there championships averaged 10.4k to Ohio's 16.2. Still their is cause for alarm as only two seasons ago Ohio was at 21.2k.



Yes ... because NIUs commuter campus is just like Athens. Your ability to look past the context is great.

NIU fan base so incredibly different than Ohio's. But you wouldn't notice.

Applaud the competition. Both fan bases should hold their head up high.

Curious: Have you been to DeKalb? I hadn't until our midweek game there a couple years ago, and my friend, DeKalb is A LOT like Athens regarding proximity to a major metro area, as in...it is roughly the equivalent distance from the Loop as Athens is from Cowtown...and there are a lot of dorms on campus.

DeKalb is in the middle of nowhere, and by extension, a commuter campus it is not. The one thing DeKalb has as an advantage over Athens is that there are exponentially more people living within a 1h30m drive of DeKalb than there are living in proximity of Athens, but most of them are still a hefty drive through miles and miles of corn and soybean fields.

And as for fan bases, NIU's loyal fans (a la Attackers) HATE Rod Carey despite the fact he has won multiple MACC's, so I wouldn't use number of championships won as a barometer for likability or success of a football coach, nor would I use winning championships as a barometer for what drives attendance. If that were true, NIU would CRUSH others in the MAC, however they have lagged in attendance for years.


NIU's campus situation is very similar to Athens. One advantage that NIU has over OU is that it doesn't need to compete for fans with a Big Ten team the way OU has to compete with OSU. Northwestern is good, but doesn't have a rabid fan base outside of Evanston. And Illinois is...well...Illinois. Still, there's not been an attendance bump at NIU due to their continued success in the MAC.



Except you miss the fact that Chicago as a whole is a Big10 city, with more Big10 alums than any other city in America. So maybe Northwestern does not cast a huge shadow, 10% of 6 Big10 teams alumni live there. Only 2 schools in the Big10 have fewer than 1% of their graduates in their market. So Northern has to compete against, Wisky, UofM, OSU, IU, IL,.
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/18/2018 1:21:12 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


Except you miss the fact that Chicago as a whole is a Big10 city, with more Big10 alums than any other city in America. So maybe Northwestern does not cast a huge shadow, 10% of 6 Big10 teams alumni live there. Only 2 schools in the Big10 have fewer than 1% of their graduates in their market. So Northern has to compete against, Wisky, UofM, OSU, IU, IL,.


Living in Chicago, I'm fully aware of what a B10 city it is. There are specific bars for every college team here, which is fantastic.

But my point is that when it comes to going to a OU football game, if the Buckeyes play at the same time, there are a lot of Bobcats that prefer to watch/root for the Buckeyes vs. OU.

At NIU, I'm sure there are B10 fans there, but I don't think there are as many students that are impacted by what another single college football team is doing.

OSU football conditions young football fans around the state of Ohio. In the state of Illinois, there is no such conditioning to contend with.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/18/2018 2:13:54 PM 
OhioStunter wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


Except you miss the fact that Chicago as a whole is a Big10 city, with more Big10 alums than any other city in America. So maybe Northwestern does not cast a huge shadow, 10% of 6 Big10 teams alumni live there. Only 2 schools in the Big10 have fewer than 1% of their graduates in their market. So Northern has to compete against, Wisky, UofM, OSU, IU, IL,.


Living in Chicago, I'm fully aware of what a B10 city it is. There are specific bars for every college team here, which is fantastic.

But my point is that when it comes to going to a OU football game, if the Buckeyes play at the same time, there are a lot of Bobcats that prefer to watch/root for the Buckeyes vs. OU.

At NIU, I'm sure there are B10 fans there, but I don't think there are as many students that are impacted by what another single college football team is doing.

OSU football conditions young football fans around the state of Ohio. In the state of Illinois, there is no such conditioning to contend with.



Nope, they will not compete with just 1 dominate program in their fan base, they have a LOT of schools with in that fan base that carves them up. Not hard to understand.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/18/2018 5:04:16 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
So Northern has to compete against, Wisky, UofM, OSU, IU, IL,.


Not to mention Notre Dame.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/18/2018 5:52:05 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioStunter wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


Except you miss the fact that Chicago as a whole is a Big10 city, with more Big10 alums than any other city in America. So maybe Northwestern does not cast a huge shadow, 10% of 6 Big10 teams alumni live there. Only 2 schools in the Big10 have fewer than 1% of their graduates in their market. So Northern has to compete against, Wisky, UofM, OSU, IU, IL,.


Living in Chicago, I'm fully aware of what a B10 city it is. There are specific bars for every college team here, which is fantastic.

But my point is that when it comes to going to a OU football game, if the Buckeyes play at the same time, there are a lot of Bobcats that prefer to watch/root for the Buckeyes vs. OU.

At NIU, I'm sure there are B10 fans there, but I don't think there are as many students that are impacted by what another single college football team is doing.

OSU football conditions young football fans around the state of Ohio. In the state of Illinois, there is no such conditioning to contend with.



Nope, they will not compete with just 1 dominate program in their fan base, they have a LOT of schools with in that fan base that carves them up. Not hard to understand.


I can't stand those "dominate" programs.
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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/18/2018 8:24:19 PM 
Given that lack of interest, 700k from ESPN is a god send. I'm sure the AD would play at 4am on Christmas morning if ESPN asked them to. [/QUOTE wrote:


That was one of the funniest things ever posted here.


That was one of the funniest things ever posted here.
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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/18/2018 8:34:17 PM 
For what it is worth, I think Peden is nice. Of course there are some really easy improvements that the university should make. Spruce the place up, a couple coats of paint, new wood at certain places and redo some bricks. It has a cool feel to it and the region around is stunning.

I know there were a lot of doubters but the Sook Center is awesome. They did a great job with it and I am proud of the design and thought put into it.

Peden is just the size we need and a few times a year it is packed and looks great. Sure the mid-week games suck for in person experience but the TV it brings is an overall positive. If we were undefeated or near it, there would be a bigger crowd but sadly, we have lost games we should not have each year for years and years. If we were rocking, the narrative would be that students "need to go."

One thing that I suggest each of you season ticket holders is to do what I do and what one of my mentors did. Reach out to current students that are at OU that you have a connection to. Reach out to your former fraternity, the college or graduate program you attended, a club or organization you belonged to and see if there is any motivated young kid that would be interest in sharing a meal or a beer before the game and would attend the game with you. But their ticket and take them with you. The concept is not hard, kids enjoy it and you feel good for giving back. I have found it to really help my professional and personal network.

Just a few thoughts.

Last Edited: 12/18/2018 8:37:40 PM by WishIWasAtLuckys
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/18/2018 11:46:19 PM 
WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
. . .One thing that I suggest each of you season ticket holders is to do what I do and what one of my mentors did. Reach out to current students that are at OU that you have a connection to. Reach out to your former fraternity, the college or graduate program you attended, a club or organization you belonged to and see if there is any motivated young kid that would be interest in sharing a meal or a beer before the game and would attend the game with you. But their ticket and take them with you. The concept is not hard, kids enjoy it and you feel good for giving back. I have found it to really help my professional and personal network. . . .


I kind of like this idea. Thanks for sharing.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/19/2018 5:18:36 AM 
Sense of Shame....you are exaggerating your points. Student attendance has been respectable in recent years. And you speak of empty stadium in Detroit for the title games, but the last time Ohio was there, the attendance was right at 50,000.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/19/2018 9:06:25 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Sense of Shame....you are exaggerating your points. Student attendance has been respectable in recent years. And you speak of empty stadium in Detroit for the title games, but the last time Ohio was there, the attendance was right at 50,000.


I dunno, man. I'm not sure I'm exaggerating, honestly. Here's the MAC Championship game attendance by year:

2018 -- 10,255
2017 -- 16,255
2016 -- 46,615
2015 -- 16,425
2014 -- 15,110
2013 -- 21,106
2012 -- 18, 132

That one year's game was well attended doesn't negate the fact that basically every other time the game was played, it was in a stadium that was 1/5th full. Especially given that the attendance for that game was driven by the fact that a team two hours away was 12-0 and with a win was headed to a New Year's Day bowl. 2016 was clearly statistically anomalous and driven by a series of events that are unlikely to repeat themselves.

As for student attendance, it's fine by our standards. But I think we'd all agree that the OU student body isn't exactly bursting with excitement over Bobcat football.
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davepi2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Worst CFB Stadiums
   Posted: 12/30/2018 11:25:36 AM 
Even though gone The Rubber Bowl should still get honorable mention, nothing could be that bad.
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