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Topic:  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?

Topic:  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/6/2020 1:59:48 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


Don't know what data you're referring to.

If you talk to the people who live here,you'll be hard pressed to find
many people who support how he's handling the reopening.

People are seeing his pulling the plug on indoor dining and opening of gyms and fitness centers as what it is,vindictive pay back.

Perfect example.
Another excuse he used to kill indoor dining,people being indoors,sedentary for a period of time.

Then he goes and allows casinos to to open.



Polling data about his handling of the Covid response. The same data referenced in this thread.

What I'm asking is if you have data to support your suggestion he's broadly unpopular now. I tend to doubt that his base on the Left views his not reopening indoor dining as "vindictive pay back."

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/6/2020 2:14:18 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


Don't know what data you're referring to.

If you talk to the people who live here,you'll be hard pressed to find
many people who support how he's handling the reopening.

People are seeing his pulling the plug on indoor dining and opening of gyms and fitness centers as what it is,vindictive pay back.

Perfect example.
Another excuse he used to kill indoor dining,people being indoors,sedentary for a period of time.

Then he goes and allows casinos to to open.



Polling data about his handling of the Covid response. The same data referenced in this thread.

What I'm asking is if you have data to support your suggestion he's broadly unpopular now. I tend to doubt that his base on the Left views his not reopening indoor dining as "vindictive pay back."


My data is anecdotal,based on living in the state and working with people
on all sides of the political spectrum.

I work with a number of Democratic Government officials (elected and appointed).
They all say they are extremely frustrated with the Governor's "snail's pace" of reopening and reversing his own policies, for no justifiable reason.

They also don't like his lack of transparency.
Things like refusing to release information on PPE distribution to hospitals as a protection against terrorism.

His covid task force,most of whose members haven't been made public,also doesn't keep minutes of their meetings and have been told NOT to send emails.
That came out in a newspaper article.

They also say they are constantly fielding calls from constituents who are upset about the governor's backtracking on things like indoor dining and
opening gyms.

Before covid there was widespread talk of Murhpy being "primaried".
The drum beat for that has gotten much louder based on how he's not opening the state.

Last Edited: 7/6/2020 2:16:46 PM by rpbobcat

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/6/2020 3:04:02 PM 
DeWine has been taking a hit from a fair amount (but not all) Republicans, both from within state government as well as the general public. Most of the Republican politicians criticizing his handling of the pandemic come from Southwest Ohio and the western part of the state.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/6/2020 7:34:52 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
I work with a number of Democratic Government officials (elected and appointed).
They all say they are extremely frustrated with the Governor's "snail's pace" of reopening....


folks in florida, texas and Arizona are not
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 6:41:28 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
DeWine has been taking a hit from a fair amount (but not all) Republicans, both from within state government as well as the general public. Most of the Republican politicians criticizing his handling of the pandemic come from Southwest Ohio and the western part of the state.


The same area that gave is Jim Jordan 🤦🏼‍♂️

Our local leader has not been happy either.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 7:02:55 AM 
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
I work with a number of Democratic Government officials (elected and appointed).
They all say they are extremely frustrated with the Governor's "snail's pace" of reopening....


folks in florida, texas and Arizona are not


The issue here is a lack of transparency by the governor when it comes to
reopening.

New York State set up specific "metrics" to be met, for each phase
of reopening.

So far,they haven't had any reopening issues.

Governor Murphy refused to do that.

As one person said "He does what he feels like when he gets up in the morning".

Towns/counties get little advance notice of what he's doing next.

For example,in the case of barber shops and salons,they were told an opening date,2 weeks in advance.
But,they weren't provided with any "rules" including PPE ,till about
a week later.

Then,after they put everything in place,including partitions,in some cases new
separate entrances/exits,every location required an inspection
and sign off by the town.

That delayed a number of places from being allowed to open on time.

Governor Murphy set up a 3 stage reopening plan.

Restricted indoor dining and reopening of gyms and fitness centers was in
phase 2.

He's now moving on to things that were supposed to be in phase 3, like massage parlors,casinos,arcades,bowling alleys,while not allowing indoor dining or gyms to reopen.
With no indication of a timeline for either.
Oh,I take that back,as I posted,on June 1 he said gyms and fitness centers
would be opening "soon".

Places like Martial Arts Schools,Dance Studios,Yoga Centers,etc. were not allowed to reopen.
Then late last week he said as long as their Certificate of Occupancy doesn't
say "Gym" or "Fitness Center" they are now exempt from his lock down.

A number of the Martial Arts Schools offer classes in things like "Zumba".
That makes them a Fitness Center.
So, even if they don't hold those classes,if "fitness center" is on their
C.O.,they're out of luck and must stay closed.

Murphy got caught participating in a BLM protest that violated his own
executive orders on social distancing,masks and gathering size.

The next week,he amended his executive orders to exempt crowd size for
protests,while continuing to restrict thing like outdoor graduation
ceremonies.

Mean while local (municipal/county) officials got stuck dealing with the "blow black".


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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 8:32:30 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:


The issue here is a lack of transparency by the governor when it comes to
reopening.

New York State set up specific "metrics" to be met, for each phase
of reopening.

So far,they haven't had any reopening issues.


New York delayed in-restaurant dining at the same time New Jersey did so. The decision was based largely on the fact that the major banks were able to predict spikes in Covid based on restaurant spending in states allowing indoor dining.

rpbobcat wrote:

Towns/counties get little advance notice of what he's doing next.

For example,in the case of barber shops and salons,they were told an opening date,2 weeks in advance.
But,they weren't provided with any "rules" including PPE ,till about
a week later.

Then,after they put everything in place,including partitions,in some cases new
separate entrances/exits,every location required an inspection
and sign off by the town.


This exact thing happened in New York as it related to restaurants. I suspect the reality is that it's actually more complex than one might think to suddenly shift all restaurants to outdoor dining. That's not to excuse states from not thinking of potential hurdles and problems that might arise, but it's not like there's a playbook for these things. Everybody is making it up as they go along.

I get your gripes -- I still think it's basically a certainty that none of that shows up in actual polling numbers. As a state, New Jersey's faring quite well relatively -- given that other parts of the country that reopened too soon are now closing again, I don't think politicians are going to become broadly unpopular for cautious reopening plans. Even if they lack the transparency some would prefer.



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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 8:58:34 AM 
Looking at the data from New Jersey, the data looks odd. They are only reporting about 400 cases a day, but still are reporting 20 deaths a day. From the beginning, their reported deaths have been very high compared to the number of cases. The current consensus is that the true IFR is about 0.6%. Deaths are the best indicator of the true status of the spread, in my opinion. More testing leads to more detection of reported cases but more testing has no impact on deaths, since people so sick they are dying would always be detected. Working backwards from the number of deaths, the implied number of actual cases in New Jersey is about 3000 a day.

Looking at their total deaths, 15,302, that implies a total number of cases of 2.55 million, compared to their reported number of 177,384. 2.55 million infected would be about 30% of the population.

To explain the high number of deaths in New Jersey, some combination of the following must be true:
1. They managed to concentrate their cases into nursing homes, leading to a higher death rate
2. People from New Jersey have more co-morbidities than other areas
3. Health care in New Jersey is worse than average
4. They failed to detect an awful lot of cases

I suspect that the explanation is missed cases, and have no opinion on whether any of the first three are even factors. If you look at this Covid model, it is estimated that in April New Jersey actually had about 35,000 new cases a day, but reported only 4,000.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/n...

The good new, I guess, is that if 30% of the people in New Jersey have already had it, they might have a second wave in the fall, but it is unlikely to be as rapid as what they had in the Spring. The bad news is that most people know at least one person who has had it, perhaps more, so it's not an illness that is "out there", it is one that is proximate and real.

Looking at another state, Ohio is reporting about 800 cases a day, but only 5 deaths. Extrapolating backwards from 5 deaths, they probably are having actual infections of 833 a day. It looks like Ohio has a much better handle on the situation. and the numbers being reported come a lot closer to what is actually happening.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
.... That's not to excuse states from not thinking of potential hurdles and problems that might arise, but it's not like there's a playbook for these things. Everybody is making it up as they go along.
...


Yep, exactly. It is also why some polling numbers will shift as time passes. Some ideas may seem good at the time, but lead to negative results.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...

I get your gripes -- I still think it's basically a certainty that none of that shows up in actual polling numbers. As a state, New Jersey's faring quite well relatively -- given that other parts of the country that reopened too soon are now closing again, I don't think politicians are going to become broadly unpopular for cautious reopening plans. Even if they lack the transparency some would prefer.

Using "faring quite well" and "New Jersey" in the same sentence is not something I would do. To me there is one, and only one, indicator that tells you how well that a state has handled the crisis. That one indicator is "mortality per million" population. At the very bottom is New Jersey, with 1,723 deaths per million, higher than any other state, and 50% higher than any country in the world. The worst country in the entire world is the tiny country of San Marino, at 1,238 deaths/million. Thus, to report 1,723 deaths per million is quite an achievement.

Yes, Texas is having a lot of cases now, but they stand only at 94 deaths per million. In no universe I can think of is 94 deaths per million worse than 1,723 deaths per million.

Last Edited: 7/7/2020 9:08:14 AM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 10:30:16 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


The issue here is a lack of transparency by the governor when it comes to
reopening.

New York State set up specific "metrics" to be met, for each phase
of reopening.

So far,they haven't had any reopening issues.

New York delayed in-restaurant dining at the same time New Jersey did so. The decision was based largely on the fact that the major banks were able to predict spikes in Covid based on restaurant spending in states allowing indoor dining.


As far as I know,indoor dining was delayed in NYC only.

They continue to have indoor dining in other parts of the state,without any problems.

Last Edited: 7/7/2020 10:30:35 AM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 2:17:08 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


The issue here is a lack of transparency by the governor when it comes to
reopening.

New York State set up specific "metrics" to be met, for each phase
of reopening.

So far,they haven't had any reopening issues.

New York delayed in-restaurant dining at the same time New Jersey did so. The decision was based largely on the fact that the major banks were able to predict spikes in Covid based on restaurant spending in states allowing indoor dining.


As far as I know,indoor dining was delayed in NYC only.

They continue to have indoor dining in other parts of the state,without any problems.



It remains to be seen whether or not indoor dining is taking place "without any problems." The data suggests that indoor dining is a problem, even with limited capacities. And it makes sense that it's the case; you can't wear a mask and eat.

Currently, 21 states have paused or reversed course on parts of their reopening plans: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/30/cov... /

And again, my larger point still stands. Most recent polling shows that people largely support Murphy's handling of this. While you may feel otherwise, and may think his decision not to re-open restaurants is "vindictive pay back", that doesn't seem to be the prevailing opinion. Given what's currently happening nationwide, I'd be very surprised to see a Governor who is being cautious have poor favorability that's bipartisan.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 2:22:53 PM 
L.C. wrote:

Using "faring quite well" and "New Jersey" in the same sentence is not something I would do. To me there is one, and only one, indicator that tells you how well that a state has handled the crisis. That one indicator is "mortality per million" population. At the very bottom is New Jersey, with 1,723 deaths per million, higher than any other state, and 50% higher than any country in the world. The worst country in the entire world is the tiny country of San Marino, at 1,238 deaths/million. Thus, to report 1,723 deaths per million is quite an achievement.

Yes, Texas is having a lot of cases now, but they stand only at 94 deaths per million. In no universe I can think of is 94 deaths per million worse than 1,723 deaths per million.


This is fair. I should have been more clear -- I should have said that they're now seeing fewer cases and seem to have successfully flattened the curve. And given that, I don't expect the Governor's approval rating to suddenly crater amongst both Democrats and Republicans now that the situation is improving because of unclear reopening protocols.

As you mentioned, New Jersey had the worst mortality rate in the country. If that wasn't enough to crater their Governor's approval rating, delaying indoor dining by a few weeks certainly isn't going to do it.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 2:43:46 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


And again, my larger point still stands. Most recent polling shows that people largely support Murphy's handling of this. While you may feel otherwise, and may think his decision not to re-open restaurants is "vindictive pay back", that doesn't seem to be the prevailing opinion. Given what's currently happening nationwide, I'd be very surprised to see a Governor who is being cautious have poor favorability that's bipartisan.


First off,I haven't seen any polling done after his recent canceling of
indoor dining.

The article you posted says what he did was "a major blow to an industry that
has struggled . . ."

It also included one of his favorite cliches "it brings me no joy to do this,but we have no choice".

He said the same thing about gyms and fitness centers,which by the way have been open in Pa. ,since June,again with no spikes.

Now he's saying that a spike in covid cases,in other states that allowed indoor dining will keep restaurants closed in NJ "for weeks".

As I posted,Pa.,Conn. and NY State aren't seeing spikes since they allowed
indoor dining.

But that doesn't fit his narrative.

Murphy has also said the recent spike in positive tests in NJ was traced
primarily to out of sate travelers.

Again,how does that justify his rationale,or lack thereof,for keeping restaurants in lock down ?

Murphy's daughter is supposed to be married in N.J.,in a couple of weeks.
Going to interesting how they deal with this.

Maybe he'll call it a protest, or sign an executive order exempting Governor's Daughter's Weddings from indoor dining restrictions.




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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 2:52:48 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


And again, my larger point still stands. Most recent polling shows that people largely support Murphy's handling of this. While you may feel otherwise, and may think his decision not to re-open restaurants is "vindictive pay back", that doesn't seem to be the prevailing opinion. Given what's currently happening nationwide, I'd be very surprised to see a Governor who is being cautious have poor favorability that's bipartisan.


First off,I haven't seen any polling done after his recent canceling of
indoor dining.

The article you posted says what he did was "a major blow to an industry that
has struggled . . ."

It also included one of his favorite cliches "it brings me no joy to do this,but we have no choice".

He said the same thing about gyms and fitness centers,which by the way have been open in Pa. ,since June,again with no spikes.

Now he's saying that a spike in covid cases,in other states that allowed indoor dining will keep restaurants closed in NJ "for weeks".

As I posted,Pa.,Conn. and NY State aren't seeing spikes since they allowed
indoor dining.

But that doesn't fit his narrative.

Murphy has also said the recent spike in positive tests in NJ was traced
primarily to out of sate travelers.

Again,how does that justify his rationale,or lack thereof,for keeping restaurants in lock down ?

Murphy's daughter is supposed to be married in N.J.,in a couple of weeks.
Going to interesting how they deal with this.

Maybe he'll call it a protest, or sign an executive order exempting Governor's Daughter's Weddings from indoor dining restrictions.






It's clear you don't agree with his approach. None of that changes anything I've said. My point's pretty simple: I don't think your view is representative. I may be wrong -- the next round of polling will tell.

That said, I really doubt that with all that's going on, and the fact that New Jersey had the highest mortality rate in the country, that a slower than average re-opening plan is going to be what ultimately sinks his approval rating.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 2:54:50 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


As you mentioned, New Jersey had the worst mortality rate in the country. If that wasn't enough to crater their Governor's approval rating, delaying indoor dining by a few weeks certainly isn't going to do it.


New Jersey "flattened the curve" a while ago.
Then he moved the goal posts.
Murphy's new mantra is "rate of infection".
He's now stopped talking about hospitalizations,including ICU patients,patients on vents and number of deaths.

Again,those numbers don't fit his narrative.

"Delaying indoor dining by a few weeks",which, by the way, isn't what Murphy said,he said "indefinite" may not be a big deal to you.
But a lot of New Jersey residents work in the hospitality industry,including
the still shuttered casinos.
A number of those places already have "closed for good " signs.

See what they think of Murphy.









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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 3:04:17 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

It's clear you don't agree with his approach. None of that changes anything I've said. My point's pretty simple: I don't think your view is representative. I may be wrong -- the next round of polling will tell.

That said, I really doubt that with all that's going on, and the fact that New Jersey had the highest mortality rate in the country, that a slower than average re-opening plan is going to be what ultimately sinks his approval rating.


I don't agree with his approach (I do what I want,when I want) to reopening.

Personally,I don't put much value in polling.
You can manipulate your sample and questions to produce the result you
want.
Just like statistics.

As I posted,Murphy doesn't mention mortality,hospitalizations,vents etc.
anymore.
Now all he talks about is the "infection rate".
Again,move the goalposts.

My feeling is this.
If his poll numbers a valid,and he's doing such a good job,why are people in his own party going to "primary" him next year ?





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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 3:20:11 PM 
Just be glad y'all aren't here.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 3:26:43 PM 
JSF wrote:
Just be glad y'all aren't here.


From what I've heard,the weather in Houston is impossible,Covid or no Covid.

A friend on mine worked there as a med tech.

She always said they call it "the city that air conditioning built".

I can also tell you that,as an engineer,they always use Houston as
an example of how not to design drainage.

Of course you do have Joel Osteen. :-)



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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 4:00:59 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:

I can also tell you that,as an engineer,they always use Houston as
an example of how not to design drainage.


I don't agree. The retention and drainage system was an outright hero during Harvey. There's only so much you can do for a low-elevation swamp with a ton of concrete and no zoning. The biggest rain event in US history was limited to 14 deaths with no interruption to drinking water and sewer systems. I'd say that's pretty darned good.

Weather is just what you prefer. Heat doesn't bother me.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/7/2020 5:56:04 PM 
JSF wrote:
Just be glad y'all aren't here.


I hear ya - Please be safe and cautious.

Amazing that some (not just POTUS) are still dismissive of the virus and the damage it can and will do to the health of the American people.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/8/2020 6:30:20 AM 
JSF wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

I can also tell you that,as an engineer,they always use Houston as
an example of how not to design drainage.


I don't agree. The retention and drainage system was an outright hero during Harvey. There's only so much you can do for a low-elevation swamp with a ton of concrete and no zoning. The biggest rain event in US history was limited to 14 deaths with no interruption to drinking water and sewer systems. I'd say that's pretty darned good.

Weather is just what you prefer. Heat doesn't bother me.


Too much impervious material is the issue.

Seems there's a lot of "ponding" until the drainage systems catch up.

My friend that worked there used the old saying "its not the heat,its the humidity".
She said it was like living in a steam bath.

Last Edited: 7/8/2020 6:31:07 AM by rpbobcat

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/9/2020 8:39:54 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


As you mentioned, New Jersey had the worst mortality rate in the country. If that wasn't enough to crater their Governor's approval rating, delaying indoor dining by a few weeks certainly isn't going to do it.


New Jersey "flattened the curve" a while ago.
Then he moved the goal posts.
Murphy's new mantra is "rate of infection".
He's now stopped talking about hospitalizations,including ICU patients,patients on vents and number of deaths.

Again,those numbers don't fit his narrative.

"Delaying indoor dining by a few weeks",which, by the way, isn't what Murphy said,he said "indefinite" may not be a big deal to you.
But a lot of New Jersey residents work in the hospitality industry,including
the still shuttered casinos.
A number of those places already have "closed for good " signs.

See what they think of Murphy.











The US allegedly flattened the curve in April, Governor Murphy is doing an excellent job. The virus is airborne so you should avoid indoor dining. God bless you and your wife, stay safe


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/10/2020 7:22:56 AM 
allen wrote:


The US allegedly flattened the curve in April, Governor Murphy is doing an excellent job. The virus is airborne so you should avoid indoor dining. God bless you and your wife, stay safe


In my opinion,as someone who has lived in NJ his whole life,"excellent" and Murphy don't belong in the same sentence.

A few examples:

1.To date,he has refused to provide the criteria he uses to determine what constitutes an "essential" business.

2.Murphy said "flatten the curve" and the state would reopen.
N.J. did.
Didn't reopen,even though,based on published reports,of secretly recorded conversations, his own medical people were saying the state should.
Now its "rate of infection".
Based on what "metric".
He won't say.

3.He sent elderly Covid positive patients to nursing homes,instead of the USS Comfort or Javitz Center.
One reason,Federal money.
Close to 50% on N.J.'s Covid deaths are/were in nursing homes.

4.He participated in a BLM march that violated his own executive orders
for crowd size,mask wearing and social distancing.

A couple of days later he revised the executive order on crowd sizes for protests.

5.He got caught dining indoors with his wife.
His executive order specifically said outdoor dining facilities couldn't have a fixed roof.
This place did.
Other places with fixed roofs were not allowed to open.

This week he changed his executive order to allow places with fixed roofs.

6.He claims the problem with indoor dining is people being indoors and
sedentary for periods of time.
Yet,he allowed casinos to open.
Some haven't until they can have indoor food and drink service.
He also hasn't allowed MERV filters,like New York did.

7.He shut down all DMV offices for around four months.
Then was "shocked" that there were 8-10 hour long lines
when they reopened.

It was so bad that they cut off the line 2 minutes after they
opened.

His first response ?

Don't allow people to arrive until an hour before they open.

8.When he ran for office in 2017, one of his campaign platform "planks" was a promise to upgrade the state's DMV and unemployment computer systems.
(They still use COBOL,and need to use retired employees to fix the system).
So far he hasn't even mentioned it to the legislature.
(His term expires next year)
The problems with the system became front and center during the pandemic.
There are a number of people in NJ who filed for unemployment in the middle
of March,and still haven't had their claim processed.

9.Police are going to funeral homes to make sure there are no more then
15 people in the chapel,even if they are socially distancing.
More then 15,the funeral director can get a citation.

Last Edited: 7/10/2020 8:46:46 AM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,729

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/10/2020 9:23:03 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
allen wrote:


The US allegedly flattened the curve in April, Governor Murphy is doing an excellent job. The virus is airborne so you should avoid indoor dining. God bless you and your wife, stay safe


In my opinion,as someone who has lived in NJ his whole life,"excellent" and Murphy don't belong in the same sentence.

A few examples:

1.To date,he has refused to provide the criteria he uses to determine what constitutes an "essential" business.

2.Murphy said "flatten the curve" and the state would reopen.
N.J. did.
Didn't reopen,even though,based on published reports,of secretly recorded conversations, his own medical people were saying the state should.
Now its "rate of infection".
Based on what "metric".
He won't say.

3.He sent elderly Covid positive patients to nursing homes,instead of the USS Comfort or Javitz Center.
One reason,Federal money.
Close to 50% on N.J.'s Covid deaths are/were in nursing homes.

4.He participated in a BLM march that violated his own executive orders
for crowd size,mask wearing and social distancing.

A couple of days later he revised the executive order on crowd sizes for protests.

5.He got caught dining indoors with his wife.
His executive order specifically said outdoor dining facilities couldn't have a fixed roof.
This place did.
Other places with fixed roofs were not allowed to open.

This week he changed his executive order to allow places with fixed roofs.

6.He claims the problem with indoor dining is people being indoors and
sedentary for periods of time.
Yet,he allowed casinos to open.
Some haven't until they can have indoor food and drink service.
He also hasn't allowed MERV filters,like New York did.

7.He shut down all DMV offices for around four months.
Then was "shocked" that there were 8-10 hour long lines
when they reopened.

It was so bad that they cut off the line 2 minutes after they
opened.

His first response ?

Don't allow people to arrive until an hour before they open.

8.When he ran for office in 2017, one of his campaign platform "planks" was a promise to upgrade the state's DMV and unemployment computer systems.
(They still use COBOL,and need to use retired employees to fix the system).
So far he hasn't even mentioned it to the legislature.
(His term expires next year)
The problems with the system became front and center during the pandemic.
There are a number of people in NJ who filed for unemployment in the middle
of March,and still haven't had their claim processed.

9.Police are going to funeral homes to make sure there are no more then
15 people in the chapel,even if they are socially distancing.
More then 15,the funeral director can get a citation.


I sincerely hope that Americans hold all of the leaders who failed us so terribly during this Covid crisis accountable come November. And that it does not just fall on party lines. I think you have a lot of valid criticisms here. I hope you hold Republican leaders to the same standard.

We should basically clean house as a nation, at this point.

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rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 2,792

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/10/2020 10:15:40 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


I sincerely hope that Americans hold all of the leaders who failed us so terribly during this Covid crisis accountable come November. And that it does not just fall on party lines. I think you have a lot of valid criticisms here. I hope you hold Republican leaders to the same standard.

We should basically clean house as a nation, at this point.



I hold all people in office,R,D,I, to the same standard.

New Jersey has had a series of Governors,going back to Whitman,who seemed much more interested in themselves,then the state.

I'm sure you know all the issues McGreevey had.

Corrzine and Murphy had enough money to buy the Democratic nomination.
And in N.J.,were shoe ins in the general election.

Corrzine was so bad,there was an effort to recall him.
Chris Cristie was able to defeat his bid for reelection, in one of the deepest blue states.

I felt that,especially during his second term ,Christie was an embarrassment.
That includes his "hey,see what I can do" weekend at the Jersey Shore,when he had closed all the beaches.

That sunk any hope his Lt. Governor,Kim Guadagno had of becoming Governor.
I've been dealing with Ms. Guadagno since she was Monmouth County Sheriff.

Personally I think she would have made a better governor then Murphy
Given the fact that,as I posted,people in his own party plan to scuttle
any reelection bid,by primarying him says a lot.

Last Edited: 7/10/2020 10:23:20 AM by rpbobcat

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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 9,354

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 7/10/2020 2:12:05 PM 
allen wrote:
... The virus is airborne so you should avoid indoor dining. God bless you and your wife, stay safe

You stay safe, too, allen. Good advice. The WHO finally admitted that it is airborne today, so they are catching up to you.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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