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Topic:  How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?

Topic:  How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 9:17:47 AM 
What countries mandate masks, and when?
Venezuela - March [in public], Deaths/1M=1
Vietnam - March 16th [in public], Deaths/1M<1
Czech Republic - March 18th [shopping, public transport], Deaths/1M=31
Slovakia - March 25th, Deaths/1M=5
Bosnia and Herzegovina - March 29th [in public], Deaths/1M=52
Columbia - April 4th [shopping, public transport], Deaths/1m=45
UAE - April 4th [in public], Deaths/1m=31
Cuba - April 6th [in public], Deaths/1m=8
Ecuador- April 7th [in public], Deaths/1m=239
Austria - April 6th [in public], Deaths/1m=77
Morocco - April 7th [in public], Deaths/1m=6
Turkey - April 7th [shopping, crowded places], Deaths/1m=59
El Salvador - April 8th [in public], Deaths/1m=16
Chile - April 8th [public transport only], Deaths/1m=236
Cameroon - April 9 [in public], Deaths/1m=12
Angola - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=0.3
Benin - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=1
Burkina Faso - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=3
Equatorial Guinea - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=23
Ethiopia - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=0.7
Gabon - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=18
Guinea - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=2
Kenya - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=2
Liberia - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=7
Rwanda - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=0.2
Sierra Leone - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=7
Zambia - Early April [in public], Deaths/1m=1.0
Israel - April 12 [in public], Deaths/1m=33
Argentina - April 14 [in public], Deaths/1m=24
Luxembourg - April 20 [where you can't distance], Deaths/1m=176
Jamaica - April 21 [in public], Deaths/1m=3
Germany - April 22 [shopping, public transport], Deaths/1m=107
Bahrain - April 22 [in public], Deaths/1m=39
Qatar - April 26 [Govt employees and workers and clients], then May 17 [full], Deaths/1m=37
Honduras - May 3 [in public], Deaths/1m=41
Uganda - May 5 [in public], Deaths/1m=0
Late additions to this list include France on May 10th, Spain on May 20th, Lebanon May 29th, and Pakistan on May 30th.

In most cases, deaths in countries that required masks early on are much lower than in the rest of the world. Ecuador is a glaring exception, and Chile as well, though Chile only required it on public transportation.

In addition, 7 US States now require masks in Public:
New Jersey, April 8th
New York, April 17th
Maryland, April 18th
Rhode Island, April 18th
Pennsylvania, April 19th
Connecticut, April 20th
Hawaii, April 20th
Interestingly, all of the above 7 show declining case rates, while much of the rest is showing significant case growth.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 9:53:23 AM 
The data seems pretty comprehensive in favor of masks.

It's pretty baffling to me how much the anti-mask propaganda has taken off. Not only is there misinformation out there about how masks actually "activate" the virus, but there's also a surprisingly large contingent of folks who see it as an infringement on constitutional rights.

I'm in Virginia at the moment, and have noticed dozens of bumper stickers that are anti-mask. The President, of course, has been very anti-mask. Many conservative politicians -- Nino Vitale in Ohio, for instance -- have railed against masks.

It's truly odd that such a simple solution exists, a solution that allows us to largely re-open the economy with only a minor inconvenience, and yet so many are vehemently opposed.

We're in truly odd times.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 10:13:43 AM 
All my life I've seen signs that say "No shoes, No shirts, No service". Those rules are in place as a sanitary restriction, to benefit public health. Where are the people protesting about their Constitutional rights to go barefoot and shirtless? What about the Constitutional right to poop in the street? We've just come to accept those rules as "normal", while masks are new, and therefore "not normal". Note, I do understand that for people with COPD there are issues with them wearing a mask, but rules can be made which accommodate them.

One of the most convincing pieces of evidence was the two hair stylists in Springfield, Missouri, who cut the hair of between 120-160 people while sick with Covid19. They wore masks, and their customers wore masks. Not one person was infected. I just thought it would be interesting to post the data on what the statewide and countrywide results have been in places that implemented it.

Personally, I wear a mask whenever I go into a place where I will be around anyone else. I have no reason to believe I'm infected, but I do it as a courtesy to others.

Last Edited: 6/24/2020 10:19:08 AM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 10:36:04 AM 
L.C. wrote:


In addition, 7 US States now require masks in Public:
New Jersey, April 8th

Interestingly, all of the above 7 show declining case rates, while much of the rest is showing significant case growth.


New Jersey's Governor's Executive Order "recommends" wearing a mask in public.

He found out that he can't legally require people to wear them in public.

That would require the State Legislature to pass a law.

They've shown no interest in even discussing it.

That may be because several lawyers have written articles that said they
don't think that kind of law could pass "Constitutional Muster".

I run through a local park a couple of times a week.

Earlier in the Spring, I'd estimate that less then 5% of the people had masks.

Last weekend,I saw 1 person total,Saturday and Sunday wearing a mask.

Haven't seen anyone walking on the street wearing one either.

So, at least in North Jersey where I live,the declining case rate isn't
related to people wearing masks in public.




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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 11:15:27 AM 
L.C. wrote:

What about the Constitutional right to poop in the street?



Don't know about "pooping",but under Mayor Diblazio, in NYC,its no longer
a crime to urinate in public,including in the street.

It also appears that authorities in cities like San Fran,don't have any
problem with the people living in the encampments on the streets,exercising their constitutional right to "poop" or do pretty much anything else
in the street.


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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 11:26:35 AM 
L.C. wrote:

Note, I do understand that for people with COPD there are issues with them wearing a mask, but rules can be made which accommodate them.

Personally, I wear a mask whenever I go into a place where I will be around anyone else. I have no reason to believe I'm infected, but I do it as a courtesy to others.



Its not just COPD.
My wife has Asthma.
We have a friend who gets claustrophobic wearing one.

Actually, there is a rule to accommodate anyone who can't,or for that matter
doesn't want to wear a mask.

Its called HIPAA.
All someone has to do is say they have a "medical condition" and can't wear a mask.
That's it.
Under HIPAA you can't even be asked what the condition is.

Personally,I wear a mask wherever its required,like
in a store.
I wear it as courtesy to the owner or other customers.

What I find annoying is a store owner requiring customers to wear a
mask,when he and other employees don't.

Last Edited: 6/24/2020 11:27:10 AM by rpbobcat

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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 11:47:01 AM 
Here in Illinois, it is required that you wear a mask. Many stores have not allowed people to opt out, claiming that you wear one or you shop elsewhere. Personally, I believe it is completely selfish of people to cause an issue over this because they're uncomfortable.

Our Governor yesterday announced that children and staff will be wearing face coverings when school resumes in August. Today, I have received so many angry messages from parents threatening to keep their child home in August unless we change the policy. However, it's not a local ordinance, it's a mandate from the Governor.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 11:49:16 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
L.C. wrote:


In addition, 7 US States now require masks in Public:
New Jersey, April 8th

Interestingly, all of the above 7 show declining case rates, while much of the rest is showing significant case growth.


New Jersey's Governor's Executive Order "recommends" wearing a mask in public.

He found out that he can't legally require people to wear them in public.

That would require the State Legislature to pass a law.

They've shown no interest in even discussing it.

That may be because several lawyers have written articles that said they
don't think that kind of law could pass "Constitutional Muster".

I run through a local park a couple of times a week.

Earlier in the Spring, I'd estimate that less then 5% of the people had masks.

Last weekend,I saw 1 person total,Saturday and Sunday wearing a mask.

Haven't seen anyone walking on the street wearing one either.

So, at least in North Jersey where I live,the declining case rate isn't
related to people wearing masks in public.






The majority of spread takes place inside -- the vast majority. So the way to determine how effective masks have been isn't through your anecdotal observations of people outside, but rather how people behave in enclosed spaces. In New York City, I see people walking on the sidewalks and in parks without masks, but 100% of people inside of stores, etc. are wearing masks. I think that has a huge role in the decline of cases here.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 12:04:49 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


The majority of spread takes place inside -- the vast majority. So the way to determine how effective masks have been isn't through your anecdotal observations of people outside, but rather how people behave in enclosed spaces. In New York City, I see people walking on the sidewalks and in parks without masks, but 100% of people inside of stores, etc. are wearing masks. I think that has a huge role in the decline of cases here.


L.C.'s post referred to wearing masks "in public".
To me, that's "outside"

Governor Murphy's executive order recommended wearing masks outside.

In N.J. we've been wearing masks in stores and similar places for months.

I have no idea how effective masks are.
It depends on a number of factors,including the type of mask and wearing it properly.

The "in thing" around here lately is for people to wear a mask,but to not cover their nose and in a number of cases their mouth.
Not very effective,but you are following the "letter of the law".

Its gotten so bad,some stores now say the mask must cover your mouth and nose.



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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 12:56:12 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
...
L.C.'s post referred to wearing masks "in public".
To me, that's "outside"
...

That is what it means to me, too, though it also implies that there are others around. If you are outside, but alone, are you "in public"? I would say, no.

I just collected the information on who requires a mask from various news articles, and the collected the data on the deaths from Worldometers. I haven't been to any of these locations, so I can't comment on how the mask rules are being applied in real life. Some places no doubt take them more seriously than others. That may, or may not, explain the differences in results.

rpbobcat wrote:
...
The "in thing" around here lately is for people to wear a mask,but to not cover their nose and in a number of cases their mouth.
Not very effective,but you are following the "letter of the law"....

Is it any wonder that the US leads the world in cases and deaths? Our freedom and independence is a great thing, but it does occasionally have downsides.


Last Edited: 6/24/2020 12:58:32 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 1:29:53 PM 
A lot of people have compared the mask requirement to motorcycle helmets, which aren't required in a lot of states, including Ohio. But if someone doesn't wear a helmet they put only themselves in danger. Not wearing a mask puts the health and safety of dozens of people at risk.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 2:31:27 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:

L.C.'s post referred to wearing masks "in public".
To me, that's "outside"


For the purposes of this conversation, that seems like a needlessly restrictive definition. It's also a definition that doesn't really holdup legally. You don't have to be outdoors to be arrested for public indecency. You can be in a private business, on a subway car, at a sporting event, etc.

And as mentioned, given what we know about how this virus spreads, it's indoor spaces that are much more relevant. I think policies (and general at-will adoption) as they relate to masks indoors are the real cause of the decline in cases in places like New York and New Jersey (coupled with, you know, the 3 month shut down).

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 6:24:29 PM 
I found a more complete list of states:
California - issued this month, mostly for indoor public places, public transportation
Connecticut - From April 20, public places, public transportation
Delaware - from April, public settings, public transportation
DC - from May, in public
Hawaii - From April 20 - stores
Illinois - from May 1, public places that can't have 6 foot distances
Kentucky - from May, in public
Maine - from April, in public
Maryland - in essential stores, and public transportation
Mass - in public
Michigan - Since June, while shopping
New Jersey - in public, public transportation
New Mexico - all public places
Oregon - indoor public places in 7 counties
Penn - from April - essential workers, customers of non-essential businesses
Rhode Island - employees at essential businesses, no one else
Washington - starting tomorrow, public places

All states exclude people with health issues and young children.

Looking at how the case rates have been in these states, Oregon, California and Washington are too recent to impact cases yet. For the others:

Connecticut - falling
Delaware - falling
DC - falling
Hawaii - very low
Illinois - falling
Kentucky - flat
Maine - falling
Maryland - falling
Mass - falling
Michigan - falling
New Jersey - falling
New Mexico - flat
Penn - falling
Rhode Island - falling

Last Edited: 6/24/2020 8:03:09 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/24/2020 10:33:55 PM 
North Carolina cases rising - staying in phase 2 for 3 more weeks and masks become mandatory Friday.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 7:50:28 AM 
Masks??? Mandatory???

That's a crime against humanity . . . it's against God's will. . .

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/24/mask-manda... /

You can't make this up.

Last Edited: 6/25/2020 8:03:32 AM by bobcatsquared

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SouthernCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 7:58:54 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
L.C. wrote:

Note, I do understand that for people with COPD there are issues with them wearing a mask, but rules can be made which accommodate them.

Personally, I wear a mask whenever I go into a place where I will be around anyone else. I have no reason to believe I'm infected, but I do it as a courtesy to others.



Its not just COPD.
My wife has Asthma.
We have a friend who gets claustrophobic wearing one.

Actually, there is a rule to accommodate anyone who can't,or for that matter
doesn't want to wear a mask.

Its called HIPAA.
All someone has to do is say they have a "medical condition" and can't wear a mask.
That's it.
Under HIPAA you can't even be asked what the condition is.

Personally,I wear a mask wherever its required,like
in a store.
I wear it as courtesy to the owner or other customers.

What I find annoying is a store owner requiring customers to wear a
mask,when he and other employees don't.


HIPAA only protects that information if you are going to transmit it electronically.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 8:45:32 AM 
SouthernCat wrote:


HIPAA only protects that information if you are going to transmit it electronically.


Not based on the doctors I've had to deal with with my dad.

They wouldn't even talk to me,until he signed letter saying they could
share his medical information with my wife and I.

My wife is a visiting nurse and runs into the same situation all the
time with new patients.

A few weeks ago I participated in webinar on how to deal with covid restrictions in your business.

One of the topics was requiring people to wear masks in your office.

The lawyer giving the webinar said that an employer could "require"
employees to wear one in the office.

But,if an employee says they have a "medical condition" ,that prevents them from wearing one,that ends the discussion.

He said that,under HIPAA,not only can't an employer request documentation of
the "medical condition",you can't even ask what it is.


Last Edited: 6/25/2020 8:46:55 AM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 9:12:12 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
SouthernCat wrote:


HIPAA only protects that information if you are going to transmit it electronically.


Not based on the doctors I've had to deal with with my dad.

They wouldn't even talk to me,until he signed letter saying they could
share his medical information with my wife and I.

My wife is a visiting nurse and runs into the same situation all the
time with new patients.

A few weeks ago I participated in webinar on how to deal with covid restrictions in your business.

One of the topics was requiring people to wear masks in your office.

The lawyer giving the webinar said that an employer could "require"
employees to wear one in the office.

But,if an employee says they have a "medical condition" ,that prevents them from wearing one,that ends the discussion.

He said that,under HIPAA,not only can't an employer request documentation of
the "medical condition",you can't even ask what it is.




You can require a Doctor's note. The Doctor's note doesn't have to provide details, but it's perfectly legal to make a doctor's note a required step in any accomodation made as an employer, particularly one that you deem to potentially put other employees at risk.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 9:37:01 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
SouthernCat wrote:


HIPAA only protects that information if you are going to transmit it electronically.


Not based on the doctors I've had to deal with with my dad.

They wouldn't even talk to me,until he signed letter saying they could
share his medical information with my wife and I.

My wife is a visiting nurse and runs into the same situation all the
time with new patients.

A few weeks ago I participated in webinar on how to deal with covid restrictions in your business.

One of the topics was requiring people to wear masks in your office.

The lawyer giving the webinar said that an employer could "require"
employees to wear one in the office.

But,if an employee says they have a "medical condition" ,that prevents them from wearing one,that ends the discussion.

He said that,under HIPAA,not only can't an employer request documentation of
the "medical condition",you can't even ask what it is.




You can require a Doctor's note. The Doctor's note doesn't have to provide details, but it's perfectly legal to make a doctor's note a required step in any accomodation made as an employer, particularly one that you deem to potentially put other employees at risk.


Lots of people throw up the privacy issue on a lot of things and most people just buckle and say ok. A perfect example are the colleges that are refusing to reveal general Covid information on athletes. Living in Athens I can tell you that if OU takes this position their will be a huge outcry.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 9:56:43 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:


You can require a Doctor's note. The Doctor's note doesn't have to provide details, but it's perfectly legal to make a doctor's note a required step in any accomodation made as an employer, particularly one that you deem to potentially put other employees at risk.

Lots of people throw up the privacy issue on a lot of things and most people just buckle and say ok. A perfect example are the colleges that are refusing to reveal general Covid information on athletes. Living in Athens I can tell you that if OU takes this position their will be a huge outcry.



The lawyer giving the webinar didn't go into anything more specific then what I posted.

No one asked any follow up questions about it.

I don't require masks in my office.
(We have enough room to anti-socially distance)

So it doesn't affect me either way.



Last Edited: 6/25/2020 9:57:03 AM by rpbobcat

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 5:23:37 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
Masks??? Mandatory???

That's a crime against humanity . . . it's against God's will. . .

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/24/mask-manda... /

You can't make this up.

Remember when people felt that way about having to wear shoes?
;)


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 5:31:28 PM 
L.C. wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Masks??? Mandatory???

That's a crime against humanity . . . it's against God's will. . .

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/24/mask-manda... /

You can't make this up.

Remember when people felt that way about having to wear shoes?
;)


Or send their kids to schools with the "negro"
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 6:06:09 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
L.C. wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Masks??? Mandatory???

That's a crime against humanity . . . it's against God's will. . .

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/24/mask-manda... /

You can't make this up.

Remember when people felt that way about having to wear shoes?
;)


Or send their kids to schools with the "negro"

There is nothing funny about racism, sorry. I definitely do not ever remember the latter. I do, however, remember people who thought it was unreasonable that they had to wear shoes to go into restaurants.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 6:22:36 PM 
L.C. wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
L.C. wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Masks??? Mandatory???

That's a crime against humanity . . . it's against God's will. . .

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/24/mask-manda... /

You can't make this up.

Remember when people felt that way about having to wear shoes?
;)


Or send their kids to schools with the "negro"

There is nothing funny about racism, sorry. I definitely do not ever remember the latter. I do, however, remember people who thought it was unreasonable that they had to wear shoes to go into restaurants.



And I'm not joking. I (and many on this board) very much remember the latter - we lived through its ugly history - To many (ignorant people) it was against God's will to mix races. And that view was not that long ago (and unfortunately still exists in some today)
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L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
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  Message Not Read  RE: How has it worked out in countries that have required masks?
   Posted: 6/25/2020 11:33:09 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
L.C. wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
L.C. wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Masks??? Mandatory???

That's a crime against humanity . . . it's against God's will. . .

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/24/mask-manda... /

You can't make this up.

Remember when people felt that way about having to wear shoes?
;)


Or send their kids to schools with the "negro"

There is nothing funny about racism, sorry. I definitely do not ever remember the latter. I do, however, remember people who thought it was unreasonable that they had to wear shoes to go into restaurants.



And I'm not joking. I (and many on this board) very much remember the latter - we lived through its ugly history - To many (ignorant people) it was against God's will to mix races. And that view was not that long ago (and unfortunately still exists in some today)

And so you're saying that refusing to wear masks is like refusing to segregate? I don't see the analogy.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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