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Topic:  RE: Nellis planning public input forums

Topic:  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/7/2017 1:12:34 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Interesting article. No doubt grade inflation is a real problem. However, I also have doubts about the value of standardized testing--how effective it is in predicting academic performance.

Then again, I frequently question testing methodologies. Many variables to consider, and those variables have a potentially huge impact on test takers. For example, I have read AP History questions that offer multiple choice answers that are nothing short of needless complexity, purposeful confusing language, even word games designed, apparently, to trip up the student. All of this is then put to some rather arbitrary time limit.

Someone, somewhere, has decided that these methods are the best for selecting academic excellence.

Again, I have my sincere doubts.


What amazes me is that with all the access to educational materials online and the helicopter parents that the average ACT score has remained unchanged. The real increase in ACT scores must have to do with hording the talent using merit aid.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/7/2017 1:37:56 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Interesting article. No doubt grade inflation is a real problem. However, I also have doubts about the value of standardized testing--how effective it is in predicting academic performance.

Then again, I frequently question testing methodologies. Many variables to consider, and those variables have a potentially huge impact on test takers. For example, I have read AP History questions that offer multiple choice answers that are nothing short of needless complexity, purposeful confusing language, even word games designed, apparently, to trip up the student. All of this is then put to some rather arbitrary time limit.

Someone, somewhere, has decided that these methods are the best for selecting academic excellence.

Again, I have my sincere doubts.


What amazes me is that with all the access to educational materials online and the helicopter parents that the average ACT score has remained unchanged. The real increase in ACT scores must have to do with hording the talent using merit aid.


Might have something to do with the expression - "just Google it." No need to store it between your ears any longer.
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/7/2017 2:10:35 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
Totally agree Uncle Wes 15,000-16,000 is a good figure. The branch campus model is definitely going to have come under some rethinking in the coming years. Lots of Ohio State main campus wannabees end up in Marion or Mansfield for a while and they may never be accepted into the college they want. Columbus State promises acceptance into any Ohio public university after completing two years. However, what they don't tell the students is that they won't automatically be accepted in that university's college that they originally desired.



I think this is an important point. The majority (I believe, but willing to be corrected) of OSU students start at a branch campus. If you did a survey of OSU juniors I guarantee the average ACT score is not nearly impressive as their freshman incoming class figure. In fact, I would venture a guess that the profile of the OHIO junior class and the OSU junior class is very similar. It seems that we have many more students that spend all four years on the main campus. If we sent more students to the branch campuses to start their education we'd be able to improve the look of our freshman class. However, I don't think that's something I'd be comfortable with. Living in the dorms on the Athens campus and making friends your freshman year is such an important part of the OHIO experience.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/7/2017 4:12:32 PM 
We've discussed this before. The majority of their students don't start at a branch campus. Their freshmen classes are around 6500-7000 each year in comparison to around 2,000 total transfers from branches and other sources. Ohio also takes in a large number of branch transfers, and it's easier to transfer within the Ohio system than within the OSU system.

I don't know what the junior class profiles would look like Keep in mind though that OSU is still bringing in 3200-3500 30+ ACT freshmen every year as opposed to around 300 at Ohio. I'm not sure that all washes away when you average in the transfers. In response to a question by OCF, I googled the requirements for HTC. The search also led me to a class profile for OSU's honors program from a couple of years ago. It was literally a mirror image in size and quality of the freshman class at Dartmouth. The issue shouldn't be trying to dismiss and negate everything that's gone right at OSU. It should be to use it as a measuring stick to evaluate what needs to be done better at Ohio.

Besides, I don't even like the idea of branch campuses. They're a redundant relic oF the 60s empire building and should be folded into a statewide community college system.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/7/2017 9:19:09 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:
Totally agree Uncle Wes 15,000-16,000 is a good figure. The branch campus model is definitely going to have come under some rethinking in the coming years. Lots of Ohio State main campus wannabees end up in Marion or Mansfield for a while and they may never be accepted into the college they want. Columbus State promises acceptance into any Ohio public university after completing two years. However, what they don't tell the students is that they won't automatically be accepted in that university's college that they originally desired.



I think this is an important point. The majority (I believe, but willing to be corrected) of OSU students start at a branch campus. If you did a survey of OSU juniors I guarantee the average ACT score is not nearly impressive as their freshman incoming class figure. In fact, I would venture a guess that the profile of the OHIO junior class and the OSU junior class is very similar. It seems that we have many more students that spend all four years on the main campus. If we sent more students to the branch campuses to start their education we'd be able to improve the look of our freshman class. However, I don't think that's something I'd be comfortable with. Living in the dorms on the Athens campus and making friends your freshman year is such an important part of the OHIO experience.


When OSU posts an average ACT of 29 because that freshman class is so large those it the bottom 10th percentile don't have nearly the scores. My guess that if anyone has a 25 on the ACT going to a OSU branch campus they likely didn't have the grades to earn a scholarship anywhere else. I don't think as many of those types even are sitting at OSU branch campuses at OUPride makes it to be. If they love OSU football that much they can go to Akron and watch them on TV in the dorms.

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2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/7/2017 10:07:30 PM 
OUPride wrote "Besides, I don't even like the idea of branch campuses. They're a redundant relic oF the 60s empire building and should be folded into a statewide community college system."

This is a discussion worth having. What is the purpose of a branch campus in 2017 compared to when they were originally built some 50+ years ago?

I may have made mention of this before but there was an apocryphal story floating around the Ohio State House when I was an intern during the summers of the mid and late 1980s. The story goes that Governor Rhodes was on his way to Mansfield in 1957 to announce the building of an Ohio State branch campus. He stopped first in Marion for a political event where he announced the building of a Marion branch campus. His stunned aides pulled hims aside to tell him that he must get back to the microphone and plead forgiveness for the branch campus is going to be built in Mansfield, not Marion. After all, at the time Mansfield was twice the size of Marion.

Governor Rhodes supposedly told his aides the hell with the apology, I will be damned if I am going to tell these people we aren't building a branch campus here; Marion's getting one too! (To be clear he wasn't Governor when he made these statements, he was the state's auditor but had his eye on the Governor's chair for some time!)

I didn't believe this story for the longest time, but I have heard a lot of people who claimed to have been privy to these events tell me it happened. Whatever the case, you can actually get four year degrees at both branch campuses. The question is how relevant is the branch campus model today and is it the same quality of a main campus education? Are their differences in the various state school branch campus models and the quality of education a student receives?

Last Edited: 8/7/2017 11:08:49 PM by cbus cat fan
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/7/2017 10:17:17 PM 
To throw some more info into the conversation I have the endowments of the University of California System. It's not necessary to have a 4 billion dollar endowment and be a 1st tier university. Of note, UC-Merced was started in 2005 (McDavis first year in office) and is already ranked 152 in the USWNR just behind OU. Funding in the Ohio state legislature is #1 OSU, #2 UC, #3 Ohio with Kent a close 4th. The next school is 50 million behind. With Kent's role in NE Ohio I think they should get in the top funding tier I've been talking about.

UC-Berkley $4.045 billion
UC-Los Angeles $3.53 billion
UC-San Francisco $2.3 billion
UC-San Diego $1.18 billion
UC-Davis $985 million
UC-Irvine $498.2 million
UC-Santa Barbara $273.7 million
UC-Santa Cruz $165.5
UC-Riverside $129.2 million
UC-Merced $38.6 million

Ohio St. $3.579 billion
Cincinnati $1.166 billion
Ohio $550 million
Kent State $110.7 million


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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/7/2017 11:15:47 PM 
OUPride wrote:
. . . I'm not sure that all washes away when you average in the transfers. In response to a question by OCF, I googled the requirements for HTC. The search also led me to a class profile for OSU's honors program from a couple of years ago. It was literally a mirror image in size and quality of the freshman class at Dartmouth. . . .


So what did you find out about the admission requirements of the OHIO HTC? How does our honors program match up against OSU's and Dartmouth's?

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/7/2017 11:19:53 PM 
Uncle Wes, interesting to note concerning endowments on the private side; Case Western Reserve is at nearly 2 billion, while Oberlin (undergrad around 3,000) and tiny Dennison (undergrad slightly more than 2,000) both have endowments that are around 300 million more than our beloved alma mater.

https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/En...
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 9:29:54 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Interesting article. No doubt grade inflation is a real problem. However, I also have doubts about the value of standardized testing--how effective it is in predicting academic performance.

Then again, I frequently question testing methodologies. Many variables to consider, and those variables have a potentially huge impact on test takers. For example, I have read AP History questions that offer multiple choice answers that are nothing short of needless complexity, purposeful confusing language, even word games designed, apparently, to trip up the student. All of this is then put to some rather arbitrary time limit.

Someone, somewhere, has decided that these methods are the best for selecting academic excellence.

Again, I have my sincere doubts.


What amazes me is that with all the access to educational materials online and the helicopter parents that the average ACT score has remained unchanged. The real increase in ACT scores must have to do with hording the talent using merit aid.


Might have something to do with the expression - "just Google it." No need to store it between your ears any longer.



I'm 5 years out from finishing my degree at Ohio and "just Googling it" has been the single largest driver of success in my career. I think critical-thinking and problem-solving skills have always been under-taught in educational settings compared to how important they are in the real-world, but that gap has grown significantly due to the wealth of easily-accessible information on the internet.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 12:35:10 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
OUPride wrote:
. . . I'm not sure that all washes away when you average in the transfers. In response to a question by OCF, I googled the requirements for HTC. The search also led me to a class profile for OSU's honors program from a couple of years ago. It was literally a mirror image in size and quality of the freshman class at Dartmouth. . . .


So what did you find out about the admission requirements of the OHIO HTC? How does our honors program match up against OSU's and Dartmouth's?



All I could find was the "suggested" requirements of 30+ ACT and top 10th of HS class. I never could find out what the actual profile of the 100 students admitted are. Maybe the person close the program might now. Overall, we're bringing 300 students in that are 30+ and 600-700 in that are in the top 10% each year, so the profile is probably higher than the minimum. The question is how high. Unfortunately, the common data sets only break down the 30+ catagory. They don't say how many 33-36 that we might be bringing in. The median ACT for the program could simply be 30 or it could be 32-33. Impossible to tell unless Ohio releases some more detailed info. For OSU, it was 1100 students that was just the entering 2014 freshmen) with a median ACT of 33 and a class rank of 98th percentile.

In any event, I don't think the way for HTC to market against them is simply on raw numbers but rather on the small size and tutorial structure of the program.

Last Edited: 8/8/2017 1:00:36 PM by OUPride
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 12:59:48 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:


When OSU posts an average ACT of 29 because that freshman class is so large those it the bottom 10th percentile don't have nearly the scores. My guess that if anyone has a 25 on the ACT going to a OSU branch campus they likely didn't have the grades to earn a scholarship anywhere else. I don't think as many of those types even are sitting at OSU branch campuses at OUPride makes it to be. If they love OSU football that much they can go to Akron and watch them on TV in the dorms.


Of course the bottom 10% doesn't have the scores. That's why they're the bottom 10%. The question is what the bottom 10% does have or conversely how large is the pool of low achieving students. At OSU last Fall, 6% were 18-23. Or in a freshman class of 7800, that's 468 students against 3822 with a 30+. At Ohio, 46% of the class is 18-23 and 1% is 17 or lower. That's 2021 students under 24 as opposed to 300 at 30+.

Looking at their branch campuses, there are a lot of kids who would be in the top half at Ohio that Ohio should be trying to recruit.

Newark: 38% 24-29 and 3% 30+ (????)
Mansfield: 36% and 3%
Marion: 38% and 3%

The issue is that right now Ohio is not competing against OSU for students. As hard as that might be to take, we're not. Our biggest competition is against the surging UC. We'll never match them as a grad/research school, but we've always been seen as a far, far superior undergraduate college with a statewide pull while they've been seen as a regional commuter school. If we lose that edge and that perception in the state, well I don't know. That's why I hate McDavis and his lost decade. And that's why I believe that it benefits Ohio to swallow its pride and start recruiting some of those 25-29 kids that are ending up at OSU branch campuses. Hell, maybe they can even be convinced to adopt Ohio sports over the school that Shaq'd them and sent them to a branch campus.

Last Edited: 8/8/2017 1:49:07 PM by OUPride
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 1:30:55 PM 
And when I mention McDavis' "Lost Decade," this is what I mean. And keep in mind that this was in a positive demographic period of increasing high school graduates both in Ohio and nationwide and also in a period when most selective schools were seeing consistent gains in freshman class quality.

2002 7% 30+ ACT & 18% top tenth of HS class
2003 7% & 19%
2004 7% & 17%
2005 6% & 16%
2006 7% & 15%
2007 7% & 18%
2008 8% & 15%
2009 8% & 16%
2010 9% & 14%
2011 7% & 15%
2012 9% & 16%
2013 8% & 17%
2014 7% & 15%
2015 8% & 16%
2016 7% & 15%
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OUs LONG Driver
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 2:30:54 PM 
Out of curiosity are numbers available for individual colleges within the university?
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 2:38:11 PM 
OUs LONG Driver wrote:
Out of curiosity are numbers available for individual colleges within the university?


+1

The PDF Alan posted on page one was from the Office of Institutional Research. They surely have the numbers but I'm skeptical they are publishing the raw data anywhere. Would like to see that for more detailed look.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 2:57:10 PM 
OUs LONG Driver wrote:
Out of curiosity are numbers available for individual colleges within the university?


It's on the 12th page. In descending order for colleges with more than 5% of the enrollment, the highest average ACT scores are in natural sciences>engineering>social sciences.


Those three along with computer science and English & Foreign language are above the average (24.1). Everyone else is below.

Last Edited: 8/8/2017 3:04:36 PM by OUPride
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 3:41:36 PM 
OUPride wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:


When OSU posts an average ACT of 29 because that freshman class is so large those it the bottom 10th percentile don't have nearly the scores. My guess that if anyone has a 25 on the ACT going to a OSU branch campus they likely didn't have the grades to earn a scholarship anywhere else. I don't think as many of those types even are sitting at OSU branch campuses at OUPride makes it to be. If they love OSU football that much they can go to Akron and watch them on TV in the dorms.


Of course the bottom 10% doesn't have the scores. That's why they're the bottom 10%. The question is what the bottom 10% does have or conversely how large is the pool of low achieving students. At OSU last Fall, 6% were 18-23. Or in a freshman class of 7800, that's 468 students against 3822 with a 30+. At Ohio, 46% of the class is 18-23 and 1% is 17 or lower. That's 2021 students under 24 as opposed to 300 at 30+.

Looking at their branch campuses, there are a lot of kids who would be in the top half at Ohio that Ohio should be trying to recruit.

Newark: 38% 24-29 and 3% 30+ (????)
Mansfield: 36% and 3%
Marion: 38% and 3%


What is the enrollment of the 3 branch campuses? Do you have a data source that also includes average GPA. Its ACT+GPA that decides if you are getting into college. The example where 6% are below 23 on the ACT. They probably had 3.8+ GPAs. If the average GPA at OSU branch campuses is a 3.5 you might be onto to something but I suspect its a 3.2 so you are talking about more of a BG student. Price is also a driver for some of those kids at Marion and Mansfield.

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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 3:51:50 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
Uncle Wes, interesting to note concerning endowments on the private side; Case Western Reserve is at nearly 2 billion, while Oberlin (undergrad around 3,000) and tiny Dennison (undergrad slightly more than 2,000) both have endowments that are around 300 million more than our beloved alma mater.

https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/En...


Ive said before that if OU was founded in Cuyahoga county instead of Athens county it would have been on a trajectory to be a Top 10 public university. An elite student profile that OUPride wants I dont think is realistic in SE Ohio. I would be happy with UC/SUNY type first tier branding and 26-27 ACT.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 4:16:34 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:


When OSU posts an average ACT of 29 because that freshman class is so large those it the bottom 10th percentile don't have nearly the scores. My guess that if anyone has a 25 on the ACT going to a OSU branch campus they likely didn't have the grades to earn a scholarship anywhere else. I don't think as many of those types even are sitting at OSU branch campuses at OUPride makes it to be. If they love OSU football that much they can go to Akron and watch them on TV in the dorms.


Of course the bottom 10% doesn't have the scores. That's why they're the bottom 10%. The question is what the bottom 10% does have or conversely how large is the pool of low achieving students. At OSU last Fall, 6% were 18-23. Or in a freshman class of 7800, that's 468 students against 3822 with a 30+. At Ohio, 46% of the class is 18-23 and 1% is 17 or lower. That's 2021 students under 24 as opposed to 300 at 30+.

Looking at their branch campuses, there are a lot of kids who would be in the top half at Ohio that Ohio should be trying to recruit.

Newark: 38% 24-29 and 3% 30+ (????)
Mansfield: 36% and 3%
Marion: 38% and 3%


What is the enrollment of the 3 branch campuses? Do you have a data source that also includes average GPA. Its ACT+GPA that decides if you are getting into college. The example where 6% are below 23 on the ACT. They probably had 3.8+ GPAs. If the average GPA at OSU branch campuses is a 3.5 you might be onto to something but I suspect its a 3.2 so you are talking about more of a BG student. Price is also a driver for some of those kids at Marion and Mansfield.


It's a safe bet that 6% at OSU have strong overall applications and probably are in a special category such as athlete, veteran, under represented minority, first generation collage student or family below the poverty line. If you're a white kid at St Ignatius or Chagrin Falls whose parents went to college and make over a 100K, you'd better be a 30+ ACT kid if you want to go to OSU.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 4:32:08 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:
Uncle Wes, interesting to note concerning endowments on the private side; Case Western Reserve is at nearly 2 billion, while Oberlin (undergrad around 3,000) and tiny Dennison (undergrad slightly more than 2,000) both have endowments that are around 300 million more than our beloved alma mater.

https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/En...


Ive said before that if OU was founded in Cuyahoga county instead of Athens county it would have been on a trajectory to be a Top 10 public university. An elite student profile that OUPride wants I dont think is realistic in SE Ohio. I would be happy with UC/SUNY type first tier branding and 26-27 ACT.


That's actually what I also see as realistic. Once set free from forced open admissions, nobody was going to stay with osu. They just have too many resources and too many weapons with which to recruit. It was in today's Dispatch that they raised over 500 last year, and 58M of it is going into endowed funds that support undergrad financial aid.

What I expect of Ohio is to maintain its undergraduate advantage over Cincinnati and to at least stay competitive with Miami. And, to sound like a broken record, McDavis failed to position us for that goal.

Last Edited: 8/8/2017 4:52:55 PM by OUPride
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 6:40:19 PM 
OUPride wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:
Uncle Wes, interesting to note concerning endowments on the private side; Case Western Reserve is at nearly 2 billion, while Oberlin (undergrad around 3,000) and tiny Dennison (undergrad slightly more than 2,000) both have endowments that are around 300 million more than our beloved alma mater.

https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/En...


Ive said before that if OU was founded in Cuyahoga county instead of Athens county it would have been on a trajectory to be a Top 10 public university. An elite student profile that OUPride wants I dont think is realistic in SE Ohio. I would be happy with UC/SUNY type first tier branding and 26-27 ACT.


That's actually what I also see as realistic. Once set free from forced open admissions, nobody was going to stay with osu. They just have too many resources and too many weapons with which to recruit. It was in today's Dispatch that they raised over 500 last year, and 58M of it is going into endowed funds that support undergrad financial aid.

What I expect of Ohio is to maintain its undergraduate advantage over Cincinnati and to at least stay competitive with Miami. And, to sound like a broken record, McDavis failed to position us for that goal.


Not sure why the criticism of McDavis. One could make the point that he sacrificed academics for athletics.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 6:58:50 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:
Uncle Wes, interesting to note concerning endowments on the private side; Case Western Reserve is at nearly 2 billion, while Oberlin (undergrad around 3,000) and tiny Dennison (undergrad slightly more than 2,000) both have endowments that are around 300 million more than our beloved alma mater.

https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/En...


Ive said before that if OU was founded in Cuyahoga county instead of Athens county it would have been on a trajectory to be a Top 10 public university. An elite student profile that OUPride wants I dont think is realistic in SE Ohio. I would be happy with UC/SUNY type first tier branding and 26-27 ACT.


That's actually what I also see as realistic. Once set free from forced open admissions, nobody was going to stay with osu. They just have too many resources and too many weapons with which to recruit. It was in today's Dispatch that they raised over 500 last year, and 58M of it is going into endowed funds that support undergrad financial aid.

What I expect of Ohio is to maintain its undergraduate advantage over Cincinnati and to at least stay competitive with Miami. And, to sound like a broken record, McDavis failed to position us for that goal.


Not sure why the criticism of McDavis. One could make the point that he sacrificed academics for athletics.


Which, if true, is the most damning indictment of all.
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cbus cat fan
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Member Since: 12/2/2011
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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 9:07:47 PM 
I have never been a fan of big showy endowments, unless they are there to help students by lowering tuition and enhancing the present and future learning experience. However, what these big showy endowments do accomplish is to set the stage for an academic arms race among various schools who need to make a statement. The statement is sent either because they want to show that they are a public school in a different league like Ohio State and our beloved alma attempt to do. Yet if you are a smaller school like Oberlin (around 3,000 undergrad) and especially Dennison (a mere 2,000 undergrad) you seemingly want to blow everyone out of the water with your 800,000,000+ endowment.

Think about that, Dennison is the size of some large high schools and it has amassed an endowment of 800,000,000+. Outside of Ohio State and Cincinnati we have the largest endowment for a state school, and we are one of the oldest public universities in this nation; yet tiny Dennison has 300,000,000 more in their endowment than do we. It sends a message to prospective students.

There have been some thought provoking posts from Uncle Wes, OUPride, Alan Swank, Del Bobcat, Ohio Cat Fan, the Optimist, Robert Fox, C Money and many others concerning the competition our beloved alma mater is up against and some of the mistakes made along the way. I think it will be interesting to see how we fair in a few years considering the demographics of fewer teenagers and the rise of community colleges. What will become of the growing influence of the branch campuses (whose decline and perhaps crash is closer than we think.)

What about some state schools like Akron, Wright State and even Bowling Green that have seen their college rankings fall if not plummet. Wright State got themselves in a pickle because they had depended upon several hundred Saudi students coming each and every year. When the Saudi government moved that scholarship to another American university, Wright State took a financial hit, not to mention a hit to their reputation. What lies next for us and our competition?

Last Edited: 8/8/2017 9:30:41 PM by cbus cat fan
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,023

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  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 9:08:41 PM 
OUPride wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:
Uncle Wes, interesting to note concerning endowments on the private side; Case Western Reserve is at nearly 2 billion, while Oberlin (undergrad around 3,000) and tiny Dennison (undergrad slightly more than 2,000) both have endowments that are around 300 million more than our beloved alma mater.

https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/En...


Ive said before that if OU was founded in Cuyahoga county instead of Athens county it would have been on a trajectory to be a Top 10 public university. An elite student profile that OUPride wants I dont think is realistic in SE Ohio. I would be happy with UC/SUNY type first tier branding and 26-27 ACT.


That's actually what I also see as realistic. Once set free from forced open admissions, nobody was going to stay with osu. They just have too many resources and too many weapons with which to recruit. It was in today's Dispatch that they raised over 500 last year, and 58M of it is going into endowed funds that support undergrad financial aid.

What I expect of Ohio is to maintain its undergraduate advantage over Cincinnati and to at least stay competitive with Miami. And, to sound like a broken record, McDavis failed to position us for that goal.


Not sure why the criticism of McDavis. One could make the point that he sacrificed academics for athletics.


Which, if true, is the most damning indictment of all.


Trap door opened and closed tight at least as far as this board goes.
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Campus Flow
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,952

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Nellis planning public input forums
   Posted: 8/8/2017 10:30:41 PM 
There isn't much causality between McDavis and moderate spending increase over a decade and our relative decline in entering freshman classes. What I believe is how people who send their kids to college in Ohio have changed their view on sending their kids to school in Columbus. If they are out of state there isn't a reason to look at the state beyond Columbus the capital city so a place like Athens is ignored. I do think OU competes for students with OSU at the 26-30 ACT range where now its free tuition at OU with a 30 on the ACT and reduced tuition starting at 24 ACT (22 ACT out of state). There is not much the university can do to cut into the market of the 30+ ACT students. Unless the cities became real dangerous again with a repeat of the events of 1968 but the gentrification of urban cores is so advanced at this point its difficult to see critical mass for something like that again. High Street in flames might not be enough to scare helicopter parents.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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