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Topic:  RE: More Mascot Change

Topic:  RE: More Mascot Change
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/4/2019 11:19:28 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say.

So many of these crises around college campuses seem like they could be avoiding by just reminding ourselves that 18-22 year olds are young and dumb and not only do their ideas tend to be bad, but that they themselves will recognize as much in a matter of years.




I wonder why no current OU students participate on this board.



Because they're too busy having fun/bad ideas.


I'll participate in some of those fun/bad ideas if anyone wants to suggest some. ;)
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/4/2019 4:32:05 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:

One is terribly racist. The other is a unit of measurement.


I fail to see how the word "Indians" is "terribly racist". I view that about the same as Colonials. There's no positive or negative connotation presented.

I'll buy that there is at least an argument around Redskins. Never thought of it poorly as Miami's nickname, and, were it up to me, I wouldn't change it for the team in DC. But I can see that being worthy of discussion.

Indians, though? I don't see the pejorative.



They had names for their tribes. We decided they were Indians. And then we slaughtered them, destroyed their civilization and decided they weren't allowed to be offended by being called that name we gave them.

I'm glad that "you'll buy" that calling someone a Redskin might be offensive.

Last Edited: 4/4/2019 4:45:29 PM by .
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/4/2019 4:38:52 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say.

So many of these crises around college campuses seem like they could be avoiding by just reminding ourselves that 18-22 year olds are young and dumb and not only do their ideas tend to be bad, but that they themselves will recognize as much in a matter of years.


+1

When I was an undergraduate, taking Philosophy 101, I remember Professor Robert Wieman making the same point, right to our faces. He was correct. Nobody took much offense to it then. Today, I'm not so sure many professors would utter such thoughts openly in class.


Your attitude reminds me that Pascal's father banned all books on mathematics from the house when he was 12.

That twinge of anger when another car passes us on a two-lane highway.

Last Edited: 4/4/2019 4:43:57 PM by .
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/4/2019 8:42:43 PM 
Brian Smith wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say.

So many of these crises around college campuses seem like they could be avoiding by just reminding ourselves that 18-22 year olds are young and dumb and not only do their ideas tend to be bad, but that they themselves will recognize as much in a matter of years.


+1

When I was an undergraduate, taking Philosophy 101, I remember Professor Robert Wieman making the same point, right to our faces. He was correct. Nobody took much offense to it then. Today, I'm not so sure many professors would utter such thoughts openly in class.


Your attitude reminds me that Pascal's father banned all books on mathematics from the house when he was 12.

That twinge of anger when another car passes us on a two-lane highway.


Your description of my attitude reminds me of a non sequitur. What in the heck does banning math books in Pascal's childhood home have to do with realizing that the faculty of an institution have more experience, training, education and to some extent wisdom than the average student in said institution? And cars passing each other? Twinges of anger? Man you are projecting or something.

Dr. Wieman's comments and mine (I'll let BLSS speak for himself) were more akin to Samuel Langhorne Clemens famous quip: “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

Last Edited: 4/4/2019 8:44:59 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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bobcat2nc
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/7/2019 11:25:47 AM 
I always thought Miami should have kept the name Redskins but changed the mascot to a peanut or potato.
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/7/2019 7:59:44 PM 
bobcat2nc wrote:
I always thought Miami should have kept the name Redskins but changed the mascot to a peanut or potato.


I've been saying the same thing about the Washington Redskin(potatoes)s for years
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/8/2019 3:45:05 PM 
"Some authorities hold that the young out not to lie at all. That of course, is putting it rather stronger than necessary; still while I cannot go quite so far as that, I do maintain , and I believe I am right, that the young ought to be temperate in the use of this great art until practice and experience shall give them that confidence, elegance, and precision which alone can make the accomplishment graceful and profitable."
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/8/2019 3:53:32 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say.

So many of these crises around college campuses seem like they could be avoiding by just reminding ourselves that 18-22 year olds are young and dumb and not only do their ideas tend to be bad, but that they themselves will recognize as much in a matter of years.


+1

When I was an undergraduate, taking Philosophy 101, I remember Professor Robert Wieman making the same point, right to our faces. He was correct. Nobody took much offense to it then. Today, I'm not so sure many professors would utter such thoughts openly in class.


Your attitude reminds me that Pascal's father banned all books on mathematics from the house when he was 12.

That twinge of anger when another car passes us on a two-lane highway.


Your description of my attitude reminds me of a non sequitur. What in the heck does banning math books in Pascal's childhood home have to do with realizing that the faculty of an institution have more experience, training, education and to some extent wisdom than the average student in said institution? And cars passing each other? Twinges of anger? Man you are projecting or something.

Dr. Wieman's comments and mine (I'll let BLSS speak for himself) were more akin to Samuel Langhorne Clemens famous quip: “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”


"I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say."

Kinda vile stuff, really.

Oh, I made the argument that men don't even have their full faculties until they're about 29 on this very board about a month ago. But I'd never, ever suggest we shouldn't listen to their ideas or even consider them. Especially if I were an educator. I'd consider that not only small-minded, I'd call it evil. To not consider a person because of their age.

I'd consider myself washed out if I thought the very people I taught had no value to any discussion.


Last Edited: 4/8/2019 3:55:20 PM by .
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/8/2019 4:13:22 PM 
Brian Smith wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say.

So many of these crises around college campuses seem like they could be avoiding by just reminding ourselves that 18-22 year olds are young and dumb and not only do their ideas tend to be bad, but that they themselves will recognize as much in a matter of years.


+1

When I was an undergraduate, taking Philosophy 101, I remember Professor Robert Wieman making the same point, right to our faces. He was correct. Nobody took much offense to it then. Today, I'm not so sure many professors would utter such thoughts openly in class.


Your attitude reminds me that Pascal's father banned all books on mathematics from the house when he was 12.

That twinge of anger when another car passes us on a two-lane highway.


Your description of my attitude reminds me of a non sequitur. What in the heck does banning math books in Pascal's childhood home have to do with realizing that the faculty of an institution have more experience, training, education and to some extent wisdom than the average student in said institution? And cars passing each other? Twinges of anger? Man you are projecting or something.

Dr. Wieman's comments and mine (I'll let BLSS speak for himself) were more akin to Samuel Langhorne Clemens famous quip: “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”


"I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say."

Kinda vile stuff, really.

Oh, I made the argument that men don't even have their full faculties until they're about 29 on this very board about a month ago. But I'd never, ever suggest we shouldn't listen to their ideas or even consider them. Especially if I were an educator. I'd consider that not only small-minded, I'd call it evil. To not consider a person because of their age.

I'd consider myself washed out if I thought the very people I taught had no value to any discussion.




Yeah man, light-hearted jokes are totally vile.

This is a conversation that started because 54% of George Washington University students felt the name "Colonials" is inherently offensive. As OCF points out, the Colonial nickname represents, in this case, the colonized.

So yeah, I think the opinion of 18-22 year olds in this case is bad. I also think we should ignore their opinions other times, too. Namely, when their opinions are bad. Do I actually think we should never listen to them? Of course not. So I apologize for using hyperbole as I know doing so is truly vile.




Last Edited: 4/8/2019 4:36:44 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/8/2019 4:40:09 PM 
Brian Smith wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say.

So many of these crises around college campuses seem like they could be avoiding by just reminding ourselves that 18-22 year olds are young and dumb and not only do their ideas tend to be bad, but that they themselves will recognize as much in a matter of years.




I wonder why no current OU students participate on this board.



Because they honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to someone born before 1997.

Plus most of us are fathers and it's inherent in 18-22 year olds to ignore their fathers.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/8/2019 8:42:32 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say.

So many of these crises around college campuses seem like they could be avoiding by just reminding ourselves that 18-22 year olds are young and dumb and not only do their ideas tend to be bad, but that they themselves will recognize as much in a matter of years.


+1

When I was an undergraduate, taking Philosophy 101, I remember Professor Robert Wieman making the same point, right to our faces. He was correct. Nobody took much offense to it then. Today, I'm not so sure many professors would utter such thoughts openly in class.


Your attitude reminds me that Pascal's father banned all books on mathematics from the house when he was 12.

That twinge of anger when another car passes us on a two-lane highway.


Your description of my attitude reminds me of a non sequitur. What in the heck does banning math books in Pascal's childhood home have to do with realizing that the faculty of an institution have more experience, training, education and to some extent wisdom than the average student in said institution? And cars passing each other? Twinges of anger? Man you are projecting or something.

Dr. Wieman's comments and mine (I'll let BLSS speak for himself) were more akin to Samuel Langhorne Clemens famous quip: “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”


"I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say."

Kinda vile stuff, really.

Oh, I made the argument that men don't even have their full faculties until they're about 29 on this very board about a month ago. But I'd never, ever suggest we shouldn't listen to their ideas or even consider them. Especially if I were an educator. I'd consider that not only small-minded, I'd call it evil. To not consider a person because of their age.

I'd consider myself washed out if I thought the very people I taught had no value to any discussion.




Yeah man, light-hearted jokes are totally vile.

This is a conversation that started because 54% of George Washington University students felt the name "Colonials" is inherently offensive. As OCF points out, the Colonial nickname represents, in this case, the colonized.

So yeah, I think the opinion of 18-22 year olds in this case is bad. I also think we should ignore their opinions other times, too. Namely, when their opinions are bad. Do I actually think we should never listen to them? Of course not. So I apologize for using hyperbole as I know doing so is truly vile.


Agree with BLSS' clarifications and amplifications. Let me further add that the late Professor Wieman was not saying not to engage in intellectual discussions with young folks. That's what he did for a living. He was very, very good at it, as anyone who took one of his philosophy classes can testify. The point of his remarks, and I should have said this initially, but I, too, was kind of going along with the hyperbole, was that he didn't want students telling the faculty and administration how to run the university. You know, don't let the inmates run the asylum. [Warning: That last sentence might be a tad hyperbolic.]

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/9/2019 1:10:27 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is a conversation that started because 54% of George Washington University students felt the name "Colonials" is inherently offensive.


I think there are a lot of words- offensive, racist, for example- that mean very different things to different age groups. And we react to them with our own understanding rather than how someone else might understand it. And I think that's something that causes a lot of the tension we see between groups.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/9/2019 3:35:22 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say.

So many of these crises around college campuses seem like they could be avoiding by just reminding ourselves that 18-22 year olds are young and dumb and not only do their ideas tend to be bad, but that they themselves will recognize as much in a matter of years.


+1

When I was an undergraduate, taking Philosophy 101, I remember Professor Robert Wieman making the same point, right to our faces. He was correct. Nobody took much offense to it then. Today, I'm not so sure many professors would utter such thoughts openly in class.


Your attitude reminds me that Pascal's father banned all books on mathematics from the house when he was 12.

That twinge of anger when another car passes us on a two-lane highway.


Your description of my attitude reminds me of a non sequitur. What in the heck does banning math books in Pascal's childhood home have to do with realizing that the faculty of an institution have more experience, training, education and to some extent wisdom than the average student in said institution? And cars passing each other? Twinges of anger? Man you are projecting or something.

Dr. Wieman's comments and mine (I'll let BLSS speak for himself) were more akin to Samuel Langhorne Clemens famous quip: “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”


"I honestly don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything 18-22 year olds say."

Kinda vile stuff, really.

Oh, I made the argument that men don't even have their full faculties until they're about 29 on this very board about a month ago. But I'd never, ever suggest we shouldn't listen to their ideas or even consider them. Especially if I were an educator. I'd consider that not only small-minded, I'd call it evil. To not consider a person because of their age.

I'd consider myself washed out if I thought the very people I taught had no value to any discussion.




Yeah man, light-hearted jokes are totally vile.

This is a conversation that started because 54% of George Washington University students felt the name "Colonials" is inherently offensive. As OCF points out, the Colonial nickname represents, in this case, the colonized.

So yeah, I think the opinion of 18-22 year olds in this case is bad. I also think we should ignore their opinions other times, too. Namely, when their opinions are bad. Do I actually think we should never listen to them? Of course not. So I apologize for using hyperbole as I know doing so is truly vile.






And I think we can all agree the Colonials thing is ridiculous. The poll is stupid not because of the age of the polled. It's stupid because random polls with no context and asked off the cuff are stupid. So using them as evidence that people are stupid is stupid. It'd be like us making public policy based on the voting system used on America's Funniest Videos. It's not evidence of anything either way. We can always find something embarrassing that any group doesn't know about. If I polled 75 year olds about Uber and asked if Uber was a service that taught you German, I could find a result that made 75 years olds look dumb. That would be dishonest and wrong.

The Colonials issue is stupid, and it'swhy I said the only two pro franchises that took public money to fund their stadiums that still have offensive names in pro sports are kinda the last two I care about. After that we're talking high schools, and while it's a bit annoying, I'm not about to tell Podunk High School what its school mascot should be if I don't live in that town. While it's still wrong, we need to prioritize what can easily be changed and what actually matters in the public consciousness. Going after high schools is a good way to get way off track.


Last Edited: 4/9/2019 3:42:56 PM by .
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/9/2019 3:38:36 PM 
JSF wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is a conversation that started because 54% of George Washington University students felt the name "Colonials" is inherently offensive.


I think there are a lot of words- offensive, racist, for example- that mean very different things to different age groups. And we react to them with our own understanding rather than how someone else might understand it. And I think that's something that causes a lot of the tension we see between groups.


I respect this, but it's also a good way to neatly fold our hands and never change anything in life.

"You gotta respect both sides" is a great stalling tactic. (Not accusing you of it. Just tired of 30 years of conversations that went 'Sure, Chief Wahoo is bright red, wide toothed and wearing a headband with one feather, but what if he means something else to a guy who lives in Mentor who wants to buy a hat!? Won't someboyd think of the guy wearing a hat!?'

The Dolans and Dan Snyder are the only people with actual stakes in this. Both have shown to be owners who enjoy flaunting their obliviousness in the public, whether that be Snyder holding his own fans hostage for decades or the Dolans disingenuously telling us they're losing money as their franchise appreciates in value from $450 million to over $1 billion in 15 years. Great ownership groups would've stopped this charade years ago. Imagine a franchise in NYC or Seattle or Dallas keeping a racist caricature as the mascot for years? These two franchises don't deserve any benefit of the doubt.

Last Edited: 4/9/2019 3:49:40 PM by .
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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/10/2019 9:29:27 PM 
If the Dolans wanted to make some serious money, change the team name to the Spiders tomorrow.
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RSBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/10/2019 10:32:56 PM 
So - Who's on Deck (per mascot name anyway)?

"Rufus" Putnam was a "colonial", and was a leading participant in the policies and actions that significantly contributed to the demise of the indigenous Native American population (AKA "Redskins") in the Northwest Territory (Ohio)....

RS Bobcat

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/10/2019 11:28:03 PM 
RSBobcat wrote:
So - Who's on Deck (per mascot name anyway)?

"Rufus" Putnam was a "colonial", and was a leading participant in the policies and actions that significantly contributed to the demise of the indigenous Native American population (AKA "Redskins") in the Northwest Territory (Ohio)....



Oh my, how many indulgences do I have to pay? My youthful sins have finally caught up with me. Cognizant of today's enlightenment and with great trepidation and with much anguish, I will tearfully admit that I'm a graduate of Rufus Putnam Elementary School. May the PC gods have mercy on my soul! ;-)

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/11/2019 8:42:39 AM 
As a kid, I played "cowboys and Indians." The cowboys always won.
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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/11/2019 10:20:04 AM 
Yes, but at least we played our cowboys and Indians on the "Indian Trail" - a trail on a high , steep embankment that bordered a stream.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/11/2019 10:58:41 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
As a kid, I played "cowboys and Indians." The cowboys always won.


Not on our block. The "team" that had the fsstest kids always won.
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/11/2019 11:28:51 AM 
Huh. We didn't foot race. We actually "shot" at each other with toy guns, sometimes with actual caps. Sometimes we just said "bang."

Oh, and I didn't live on anything you could refer to as a "block."
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/11/2019 11:58:49 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Huh. We didn't foot race. We actually "shot" at each other with toy guns, sometimes with actual caps. Sometimes we just said "bang."


Let's not forget the Matel M16,with the "sound of power"

The "Johnny 7".

And my favorite, the Man From U.N.C.L.E. " "U.N.C.L.E. Special " firearm.

Last Edited: 4/11/2019 11:59:47 AM by rpbobcat
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/11/2019 12:22:48 PM 
Brian Smith wrote:
JSF wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is a conversation that started because 54% of George Washington University students felt the name "Colonials" is inherently offensive.


I think there are a lot of words- offensive, racist, for example- that mean very different things to different age groups. And we react to them with our own understanding rather than how someone else might understand it. And I think that's something that causes a lot of the tension we see between groups.


I respect this, but it's also a good way to neatly fold our hands and never change anything in life.


Mmm. Didn't think of it that way. To get to real progress, we need to get past binary questions like, "Is this offensive?" Because I'm skeptical of how useful the question is. If you're going to ask me is Colonials offensive, I'd probably say yes. But what does that mean? Do you understand why I said yes, or are you applying your own perspective? Because for me, in this context, I'm not getting upset or "outraged," as people like to say. What I am thinking is, yeah, that's probably not a good idea, colonialism did a lot of damage and I wouldn't want to represent that. No foaming at the mouth, just a preference for something else.

Chief Wahoo is probably a good example of a flashpoint. There are a lot of people who love Wahoo. There are a lot of people who want him gone. I don't see any way you're going to satisfy both crowds. So whose feelings matter more, and why? Those are the conversations that need to happen, not, "Who is offended?"

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/11/2019 12:48:48 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Huh. We didn't foot race. We actually "shot" at each other with toy guns, sometimes with actual caps. Sometimes we just said "bang."

Oh, and I didn't live on anything you could refer to as a "block."


I think every boy in our neighborhood had one or two cap guns. Btw, in addition to cowboys and Indians, we also played cops and robbers and war with Americans versus the krauts and japs. I guess we were a bloodthirsty bunch.

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  Message Not Read  RE: More Mascot Change
   Posted: 4/11/2019 12:56:24 PM 
Brian Smith wrote:
JSF wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is a conversation that started because 54% of George Washington University students felt the name "Colonials" is inherently offensive.


I think there are a lot of words- offensive, racist, for example- that mean very different things to different age groups. And we react to them with our own understanding rather than how someone else might understand it. And I think that's something that causes a lot of the tension we see between groups.


I respect this, but it's also a good way to neatly fold our hands and never change anything in life.

"You gotta respect both sides" is a great stalling tactic. (Not accusing you of it. Just tired of 30 years of conversations that went 'Sure, Chief Wahoo is bright red, wide toothed and wearing a headband with one feather, but what if he means something else to a guy who lives in Mentor who wants to buy a hat!? Won't someboyd think of the guy wearing a hat!?'

The Dolans and Dan Snyder are the only people with actual stakes in this. Both have shown to be owners who enjoy flaunting their obliviousness in the public, whether that be Snyder holding his own fans hostage for decades or the Dolans disingenuously telling us they're losing money as their franchise appreciates in value from $450 million to over $1 billion in 15 years. Great ownership groups would've stopped this charade years ago. Imagine a franchise in NYC or Seattle or Dallas keeping a racist caricature as the mascot for years? These two franchises don't deserve any benefit of the doubt.



What about the Blackhawks in Chicago?
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