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Topic:  RE: Poll Nonsense

Topic:  RE: Poll Nonsense
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/16/2021 9:31:27 AM 
NIU007b wrote:
You notice that Alabama only dropped to #5. That's so if Cincinnati doesn't beat all their opponents by at least 30 points (and maybe even then) they will find a way to drop them down, like they did TCU back in the day, to make room for Alabama.


You want to name me more than 4 teams that you can argue are better than Bama?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/16/2021 9:32:39 AM 
greencat wrote:
If Ohio State beats #7 Michigan / #8 Penn State / #9 Michigan State and then presumably unbeaten Iowa who today is ranked #2 (USA Today poll)....how in the world are they NOT one of the four best teams at the end and deserving of being selected for the final four? If they run the table they are deserving.

To say otherwise would simply be petty and disingenuous.


+1

But no worries, if that would happen, there would be many jump on that.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/16/2021 10:43:49 AM 
greencat wrote:
If Ohio State beats #7 Michigan / #8 Penn State / #9 Michigan State and then presumably unbeaten Iowa who today is ranked #2 (USA Today poll)....how in the world are they NOT one of the four best teams at the end and deserving of being selected for the final four? If they run the table they are deserving.

To say otherwise would simply be petty and disingenuous.


Lots of "ifs" there. The point some of us have been making is that none of that has happened yet, but somehow the polls and the pundits are acting like it has.


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/16/2021 1:49:04 PM 
O$U has not yet played, let alone defeated, the #2, 7, 8 and 9 teams this season. And chances are some/all of these teams won't be ranked that high when they do play (Iowa is not the second best team in the country). O$U has played one decent team so far this year and lost.

Last Edited: 10/16/2021 1:50:27 PM by bobcatsquared

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/16/2021 4:51:19 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
NIU007b wrote:
You notice that Alabama only dropped to #5. That's so if Cincinnati doesn't beat all their opponents by at least 30 points (and maybe even then) they will find a way to drop them down, like they did TCU back in the day, to make room for Alabama.


Yep, that's how it works. And, if O$U loses another game, they'll probably still be ahead of Oregon and be talked about as potential playoff team if they can win the B1G championship game.


When I was just a little boy, I asked my pollster, who is the best? Is it the Buckeyes or them there Ducks? she told me surely you jest! Que sera sera………
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/16/2021 7:47:32 PM 

giacomo wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
NIU007b wrote:
You notice that Alabama only dropped to #5. That's so if Cincinnati doesn't beat all their opponents by at least 30 points (and maybe even then) they will find a way to drop them down, like they did TCU back in the day, to make room for Alabama.


Yep, that's how it works. And, if O$U loses another game, they'll probably still be ahead of Oregon and be talked about as potential playoff team if they can win the B1G championship game.


When I was just a little boy, I asked my pollster, who is the best? Is it the Buckeyes or them there Ducks? she told me surely you jest! Que sera sera……… 

smileywinkindecision


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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NIU007b
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/18/2021 2:37:26 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
NIU007b wrote:
You notice that Alabama only dropped to #5. That's so if Cincinnati doesn't beat all their opponents by at least 30 points (and maybe even then) they will find a way to drop them down, like they did TCU back in the day, to make room for Alabama.


You want to name me more than 4 teams that you can argue are better than Bama?


The 4 that were ahead of them. And oh yea, Texas A&M. Besides, you don't actually know who is better than who, and yet you're picking only 4 of them, most of whom have not played each other and don't even have any common opponents, and pretending that's a playoff.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/18/2021 2:51:28 PM 
I understand the dislike for the local big state school U. As a resident of the state of TN, I don't allow anything orange in my house.

Yet if you look at the Cincinnati Bearcats schedule, other than the win at non-top-10 ranked (today) Notre Dame, who did they play?

(rankings per Real Time RPI)

Fiami 3-4 (ranked #106)
Murray {non D-1} ranked #186
Indiana 2-4 ranked #68
Temple 3-3 ranked #97
UCF 3-3 ranked #91

Three of their next 4 games are against team that are 1-5, ranked between 130-139

So, where is the grousing about the Bearcats being overrated? About their schedule? Or do they get a pass simply by not being on High Street in Columbus?
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NIU007b
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/18/2021 3:18:51 PM 
greencat wrote:
I understand the dislike for the local big state school U. As a resident of the state of TN, I don't allow anything orange in my house.

Yet if you look at the Cincinnati Bearcats schedule, other than the win at non-top-10 ranked (today) Notre Dame, who did they play?

(rankings per Real Time RPI)

Fiami 3-4 (ranked #106)
Murray {non D-1} ranked #186
Indiana 2-4 ranked #68
Temple 3-3 ranked #97
UCF 3-3 ranked #91

Three of their next 4 games are against team that are 1-5, ranked between 130-139

So, where is the grousing about the Bearcats being overrated? About their schedule? Or do they get a pass simply by not being on High Street in Columbus?


Who was willing to play Cincinnati? Even more so, which schools were willing to play @Cincinnati? I'm not a Cincinnati fan but did people even bat an eye when Iowa was listed #2? Yes, Alabama only lost once but Michigan and Michigan State are both undefeated.

Also, some of the other teams actually travel. When was the the last time Alabama played anyone outside of the southeast?
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/18/2021 3:32:08 PM 
greencat wrote:
I understand the dislike for the local big state school U. As a resident of the state of TN, I don't allow anything orange in my house.

Yet if you look at the Cincinnati Bearcats schedule, other than the win at non-top-10 ranked (today) Notre Dame, who did they play?

(rankings per Real Time RPI)

Fiami 3-4 (ranked #106)
Murray {non D-1} ranked #186
Indiana 2-4 ranked #68
Temple 3-3 ranked #97
UCF 3-3 ranked #91

Three of their next 4 games are against team that are 1-5, ranked between 130-139

So, where is the grousing about the Bearcats being overrated? About their schedule? Or do they get a pass simply by not being on High Street in Columbus?


If you don't see the difference between a G5 school doing everything they can just to get into the Top 10 and a school who's collective arse is routinely kissed by the powers that be in college football even when they lose I'm not sure how I can help you.

Every single fan of a G5 school should be rooting for Cincinnati to make the playoff.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/18/2021 7:17:46 PM 
NIU007b wrote:
greencat wrote:
I understand the dislike for the local big state school U. As a resident of the state of TN, I don't allow anything orange in my house.

Yet if you look at the Cincinnati Bearcats schedule, other than the win at non-top-10 ranked (today) Notre Dame, who did they play?

(rankings per Real Time RPI)

Fiami 3-4 (ranked #106)
Murray {non D-1} ranked #186
Indiana 2-4 ranked #68
Temple 3-3 ranked #97
UCF 3-3 ranked #91

Three of their next 4 games are against team that are 1-5, ranked between 130-139

So, where is the grousing about the Bearcats being overrated? About their schedule? Or do they get a pass simply by not being on High Street in Columbus?


Who was willing to play Cincinnati? Even more so, which schools were willing to play @Cincinnati? I'm not a Cincinnati fan but did people even bat an eye when Iowa was listed #2? Yes, Alabama only lost once but Michigan and Michigan State are both undefeated.

Also, some of the other teams actually travel. When was the the last time Alabama played anyone outside of the southeast?


Michigan hasn't played a team that is currently ranked. Mich. State played Miami (FL) who used to be ranked but is a bust at 2 & 4. Is this sudden Michigan/Michigan State fandom a Machiavellian thing? The hate for tOSU is so irrational that the enemy of your enemy is your friend? Michigan is still a giant BigTen school that gets it's rear smooched by the national sports media. Look at who their coach is F.F.S.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/18/2021 7:42:40 PM 
greencat wrote:
NIU007b wrote:
greencat wrote:
I understand the dislike for the local big state school U. As a resident of the state of TN, I don't allow anything orange in my house.

Yet if you look at the Cincinnati Bearcats schedule, other than the win at non-top-10 ranked (today) Notre Dame, who did they play?

(rankings per Real Time RPI)

Fiami 3-4 (ranked #106)
Murray {non D-1} ranked #186
Indiana 2-4 ranked #68
Temple 3-3 ranked #97
UCF 3-3 ranked #91

Three of their next 4 games are against team that are 1-5, ranked between 130-139

So, where is the grousing about the Bearcats being overrated? About their schedule? Or do they get a pass simply by not being on High Street in Columbus?


Who was willing to play Cincinnati? Even more so, which schools were willing to play @Cincinnati? I'm not a Cincinnati fan but did people even bat an eye when Iowa was listed #2? Yes, Alabama only lost once but Michigan and Michigan State are both undefeated.

Also, some of the other teams actually travel. When was the the last time Alabama played anyone outside of the southeast?


Michigan hasn't played a team that is currently ranked. Mich. State played Miami (FL) who used to be ranked but is a bust at 2 & 4. Is this sudden Michigan/Michigan State fandom a Machiavellian thing? The hate for tOSU is so irrational that the enemy of your enemy is your friend? Michigan is still a giant BigTen school that gets it's rear smooched by the national sports media. Look at who their coach is F.F.S.


People do this every year at this time. That team isn't unbeaten with a whole bunch of good wins so therefore they are undeserving. But who DOES meet that definition? Georgia sort of does. Early in the season, if you beat a team they don't have a lot of wins to offset it so they drop. Power 5 schedules are usually backloaded. There is nothing about Michigan's schedule that compares unfavorable to most of the other unbeatens. Cincinnati's doesn't compare unfavorably either.

This is again what I was talking about earlier. Its singling out one particular situation as if it exists in a vacuum without evaluating the whole.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/18/2021 8:01:51 PM 
There are a handful of teams that have actually played the schedule that has already had a bunch of quality teams on it with only a handful of weaklings that people somehow expect that everyone should have already done. Indiana, Kansas St, Mississippi St. & Arkansas are maybe the best examples. If you look at the entirely of a schedule including all 12 games and not just those already played then the toughest schedule is very probably going to be Indiana.

Out of the teams with one loss or zero, Iowa has played the toughest schedule and is probably followed by Notre Dame or Penn State. Do any of these schedule meet the criteria everyone seems to be looking for?

Georgia has played the toughest schedule out of only the unbeatens. I'd argue that the second is Oklahoma State who is just now starting to get respect. The next might be Michigan whose schedules people were just picking apart. If you want to see an unbeaten with a schedule that compares unfavorably to the rest so far then look at Coastal Carolina. This is arguably the weakest schedule in the FBS to this point.

Top team's schedules do tend to sway slightly weaker than their conference brethren rather than the opposite. Weaker non-conference scheduling is not the reason. If anything, the opposite tend to be true. The reason is that they never play themselves and most of their conference mates do.

Last Edited: 10/18/2021 8:07:13 PM by Victory

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/18/2021 11:52:41 PM 
greencat wrote:
. . . So, where is the grousing about the Bearcats being overrated? About their schedule? Or do they get a pass simply by not being on High Street in Columbus?


Yes, and Olentangy Tech has certainly faced a murders row with the likes of Rutgers, Maryland, Tulsa and the Akron Zippers. That's certainly a schedule by which to proclaim a school a top playoff contender. And, they lost to the one team they've played that had a pulse. Next week they play another toughie in Indiana, but you never know, the Hoosiers do have half a pulse. ;-)


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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/19/2021 4:33:43 PM 
Victory wrote:

People do this every year at this time. That team isn't unbeaten with a whole bunch of good wins so therefore they are undeserving. But who DOES meet that definition? Georgia sort of does.


Georgia just beat three ranked teams in a row and hung between 30 and 37 on all of them. Besides the early win over Clemson who was ranked #3 at the time.

Yes, Georgia is "sort of" "pretty good" "I guess" etc.

But it's a large state school from the behemoth SEC. Doesn't that mean we have to dislike them? Their 92,746-seat stadium is the tenth-largest stadium in the NCAA.

(just messing with you, I pull for Georgia bigtime every time they play the orange school with the 102,455 seat stadium and the drunken rioting fanbase)

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/19/2021 4:52:29 PM 
greencat wrote:
Victory wrote:

People do this every year at this time. That team isn't unbeaten with a whole bunch of good wins so therefore they are undeserving. But who DOES meet that definition? Georgia sort of does.


Georgia just beat three ranked teams in a row and hung between 30 and 37 on all of them. Besides the early win over Clemson who was ranked #3 at the time.

Yes, Georgia is "sort of" "pretty good" "I guess" etc.

But it's a large state school from the behemoth SEC. Doesn't that mean we have to dislike them? Their 92,746-seat stadium is the tenth-largest stadium in the NCAA.

(just messing with you, I pull for Georgia bigtime every time they play the orange school with the 102,455 seat stadium and the drunken rioting fanbase)



Georgia has wins over the present #15 and #19. Two other teams were ranked when they played them. But that was my point. A team that is unbeaten with wins over TWO ranked teams has FAR AND AWAY the best resume of anyone. But even this isn't a schedule that is mostly ranked opponents. You just aren't going to find that if you look around. Michigan has probably played the third toughest schedule of all of the unbeatens. You can't just put Michigan in a vacuum, open up their schedule, say that it isn't mostly made of ranked opponents, and dismiss their ranking. You have look at everyone and see who has a better resume or else the exercise is meaningless. There is hardly anyone with a better resume than Michigan.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/19/2021 5:40:37 PM 
Well, Michigan beat Rutgers by seven. tOSU beat them by around 40.

tOSU also hung 66 on Maryland who has a winning record. Yep, they're awful.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/19/2021 6:55:47 PM 
greencat wrote:
Well, Michigan beat Rutgers by seven. tOSU beat them by around 40.

tOSU also hung 66 on Maryland who has a winning record. Yep, they're awful.


Again, picking out games and isolating them in a vacuum. NIU and Tulsa are approximately equivalent teams. Tulsa hung around most of the game. Michigan beat NIU by 53. Minnesota and Wisconsin are approximately equivalent teams. Minnesota gave OSU a game. Wisconsin was unable to give Michigan a game. Oregon is the best team either team played but Ohio State lost. Yes, I think that if they played OSU would be favored right now because they are playing better than they did at the start of the year. But wins and losses have to matter. They schedule strengths are approximately equal and OSU has taken a loss. Michigan has outscored its opponents by 138 to OSUs 168. Slight edge to OSU. But the one loss against an equivalent schedule is the reason by they are ranked about the same

You might disagree with that. But the Michigan is flawed because of.....argument is meaningless without consideration of how all teams are flawed and you have to acknowledge that OSU's resume has quite a few flaws.

I would contend that the second best resume in terms of beating good teams belongs to the other OSU. But Oklahoma State is flawed too. They haven't crushed anybody yet. Even FCS Missouri St. gave them a pretty decent game.

Cincinnati has beaten ND. But they have also played Murray St, Temple and Fiami. UCF is not a good team this year and Indiana is below .500 which is, in part, due to the schedule the Hoosiers have played. Oklahoma has struggled to win nearly every game. Who, besides Georgia, has a resume much better than Michigan?
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/23/2021 4:49:29 PM 
Watch Cincy dive in the polls. They beat 1-6 Navy by only seven, on the road, 27-20. Any "P" team would get the "a win is a win" treatment.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/23/2021 6:05:35 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
Watch Cincy dive in the polls. They beat 1-6 Navy by only seven, on the road, 27-20. Any "P" team would get the "a win is a win" treatment.


This is a likely scenario, especially if O$U beats the Bloomington Behemoths.


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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bobcat2nc
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/23/2021 6:35:50 PM 
The announcers did their best to make a case for Cinci to drop in the polls during the 4th quarter. Being the cynic I am, It stunk of “it would be best if the big boys are in the playoffs”.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/23/2021 7:07:17 PM 
bobcat2nc wrote:
The announcers did their best to make a case for Cinci to drop in the polls during the 4th quarter. Being the cynic I am, It stunk of “it would be best if the big boys are in the playoffs”.


Meanwhile two more Top 10 teams go down to unranked teams. As far as I'm concerned if Cincinnati goes 13-0 you can't keep em out. They'll try like hell but the other alternatives are going down like flies week after week.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/25/2021 12:35:29 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
Watch Cincy dive in the polls. They beat 1-6 Navy by only seven, on the road, 27-20. Any "P" team would get the "a win is a win" treatment.


This is a likely scenario, especially if O$U beats the Bloomington Behemoths.


tOSU was up 44-7 at halftime before coasting in a monsoon to a 54-7 win while Cincy held off 1-6 Navy. If Cincy keep playing that way, SMU will take them down and then everybody can become a huge sudden SMU fan as the unbeaten mid-major on the outside looking in. (If SMU can survive trips to Houston and Memphis first which is far from automatic)
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Poll Nonsense
   Posted: 10/25/2021 6:02:27 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
Watch Cincy dive in the polls. They beat 1-6 Navy by only seven, on the road, 27-20. Any "P" team would get the "a win is a win" treatment.


Cincinnati was ranked 2nd in the AP poll and 3rd the the Coaches Poll. They beat Navy by 7. They moved up to second in both. Oklahoma was ranked 3rd and 2nd and fell to 4th in both after beating Kansas by 12.

I do think there are times when mid-majors get screwed. A good case in point was Coastal Carolina and Louisiana in most of the Committee rankings last year after Louisiana had beaten Iowa St. and had only lost to unbeaten Coastal. They has ISU about 15 spots higher.

But when you play tougher schedule wins are harder to come by so wins count for more and losses hurt less. It has to be that way. For the most part this thread is full of short sighted lines of thinking.
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