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Topic: RE: Another problem of Covid?

Topic: RE: Another problem of Covid?

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L.C.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/3/2020 8:48:43 PM

In other news:
1.There is increasing doubt about how long lasting immunity will be to Covid.
Immunity to Covid could be lost in months:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/immunity-to-covid-1...
2. Hopes had been that immunity would last for at least several years, as was true of SARS, and that it would not be like OC43 or 229E, two other coronaviruses that cause "colds", where you could be re-infected as soon as 4 months after recovery. COVID may end up being only a four month immunity, however, as we are seeing cases where people are re-infected four months later:
https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321653/getting-covid-19-t...
This is a single case, so it may be something unique. Note that we would not be seeing very many of these cases just yet because for it happens, you need a patient who was infected very early, and who recovered very early, and then who also got re-exposed four months later. There were perhaps only 1000 patients worldwide who had recovered by the end of February.
3. In a study of patients who had Covid and recovered, and who then later had an echocardiography done, lasting heart damage was found in about 50% of the patients:
https://academic.oup.com/ehjcimaging/article/doi/10.1093/...
In patients who only had mild symptoms, there were 215 in the sample, of whom 98 had abnormalities detected, so 45% percent of the patients will "mild" symptoms had lasting effects on their heart.
4. Even patients that show no symptoms at all may have lung damage, though it is probably reversible:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/23/8645...
In a study published in Nature, 57% of the Asymptomatic people who had a CT scan done showed "striped shadows" or "ground-glass opacities", clear signs of inflammation in the lungs.

Dr. Alvin Ing, a professor of respiratory medicine at Macquarie University wrote:

To find so many asymptomatic patients with such significant changes on CTs is quite surprising. The symptoms underestimate the severity of the disease.

So, taken together, these mean football is less likely this fall. If there is no immunity, it will be very hard to re-open enough to have football. If there is lasting damage to hearts and lungs even in mild cases, I just don't see them risking playing.

Last Edited: 7/16/2020 12:13:51 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/16/2020 9:15:32 AM

I have a doctor in my family and after getting the virus, I talked with him in mid-June. He pretty much said research and their experience in Indianpolis has been that you�re protected for three months but after that the antibodies start dissipating quickly.

It�s now been almost four months since I�ve had it and I�m living as if I�m susceptible to re-infection.

Last Edited: 7/16/2020 9:16:43 AM by .

rpbobcat
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/16/2020 10:05:40 AM

. wrote:

One of my neighbor's co-workers got Covid.

He had relatively mild symptoms.
After self quarantining for 14 days he tested negative.

Later,he had the antibody test done.
It showed he had the antibodies.

He figured he was "protected" from reinfection.

Went back to work.
A few weeks later,he got sick.
He tested positive for covid.
This time it was much worse and he didn't survive.

FanInTheStands
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/16/2020 10:13:25 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

. wrote:

A friend that I attend church with has had to deal with Covid at a very personal level. Her daughter and grandson live in the Myrtle Beach area and both were diagnosed with the virus in early March. The child has some other health issues that worried them but fortunately both recovered and had only mild cases.
Unfortunately, in late June, both started showing signs again of Covid-19 and were tested again. For a second time they were both diagnosed with the virus and it hit both of them much harder the second time, hospitalizing the youngster for a period of time. While both appear on the road to recovery now with some lingering "minor" side effects, their episodes have made it clear that the antibodies from Covid don't appear to be as long-lasting as we had hoped they might be.

L.C.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/16/2020 1:41:36 PM

Ugh, not what I wanted to hear. It's also possible that these are not re-exposures, but that the virus was never completely eliminated.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

rpbobcat
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/16/2020 2:16:09 PM

L.C. wrote:

Ugh, not what I wanted to hear. It's also possible that these are not re-exposures, but that the virus was never completely eliminated.

Even then,in the case of my neighbor's coworker,he did have the covid antibodies.
So they didn't provide any help in killing off any virus that may have been around after the initial infection.

One of the things they were saying about the vaccine tests is that they look to see if it produces antibodies.

This would bring in to question whether the presence of antibodies means
much.

.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/16/2020 5:57:40 PM

I had family members who were told by the testing facility in Chicago that they had freakishly high number of antibodies. Like double to triple the amount that they�d usually seen. The contact tracer was very interested in them and tracking them afterwards. Unfortunately my wife, my son and I never got told what our antibody numbers were.

L.C.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/17/2020 12:00:01 AM

In the good news category, it seems that prior exposure to one of the other coronaviruses can sometimes confer at least partial immunity. While antibodies to the common coronaviruses don't last long, memory T cells against them do, and SARS-COV2 shares some proteins with those "cold" virus versions of coronavirus:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z_referen...

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

rpbobcat
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/17/2020 6:35:42 AM

There's an article in the "Nation's Health" section of today's The Record by John Bacon of USA Today.
The article won't link.
But if you google his name at USA today its there.

It talks about the issue of reinfection.

Experts are trying to confirm if reinfections are taking place.
So far,there is only anecdotal evidence.

A couple of things the article says:

1.The infection seems to much worse the second time.

2.If you can get reinfected,it really, "complicates" efforts to find an effective
vaccine.

L.C.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/17/2020 9:53:58 AM

The reinfection issue will become much more clear over the next few months. Since it takes about 4 months before you can get reinfected, if you can, the pool of people is small who can currently be reinfected. Not many people were infected in January, and fully recovered in February. A lot more people recovered in April-May-June. Thus, if reinfections are "a thing", we will see them in substantial numbers in August-September-October.

If you can be re-infected, and if the infection is indeed "much worse" the second time, that is awful news. That would certainly spell the end to sports for the foreseeable future, and would make controlling the virus that much more urgent.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

rpbobcat
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/17/2020 10:48:33 AM

L.C. wrote:

Just heard them talking about this in the radio.

Apparently they have had a lot of success with some treatments.

I only caught part of it,but apparently one of the steroids they're using is
really helping.

Also,they now use blood thinners as a preventative to reduce the possibility of blood clots.

From what they said,right now they are finding the treatment option to be more promising then a vaccine.

L.C.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/17/2020 11:27:36 AM

Yes, you are right that treatments continue to improve. While the WHO guidance says not to use steroids, recent studies have shown that they dramatically reduce fatalities in severe cases, but may make mild cases worse, especially if there is a co-infection. Anti-inflammatories, Antioxidants, and anticoagulants have all been useful. Three separate studies came out this week showed that Ivermectin dramatically reduced fatalities and sped recovery. I also saw that a single low does radiation treatment dramatically sped recovery of the lungs. There are clinical studies underway for NAC, which is both and antioxidant, and can cleave von Willebrand factor, helping to prevent clots.

There are lots and lots of things being looked at. The more cases the medical system sees, the better treatments are going to get. I don't think any one treatment is going to be a magic bullet. I think that they will find many things that help a little, and figure out when to use each for the best possible outcome.

[note: I have to include the obvious. Just as people should not take aquarium cleaner, people should not go and take veterinary Ivermectin. The grade is not fit for humans, and the dose is not right. Take what your doctor recommends.]

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

rpbobcat
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/17/2020 1:36:40 PM

I just saw a piece on News 12 N.J. about an elderly nurse from Hackensack
University Medical Center who was being released from Kessler Rehab after her
second bout with Covid.

She's from this area,so hopefully the local papers will go into a bit more detail.

But that's another example of reinfection.

Last Edited: 7/17/2020 1:36:57 PM by rpbobcat

L.C.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/17/2020 3:18:58 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

New Jersey was well ahead of the rest of the country, and had a tremendous number of cases from March 25 until May 10th. If you figure 3 weeks to recover, and 4 months for immunity to last, if there is a surge of reinfections, it may start in mid-August. Hopefully that won't happen, and there will just be isolated cases, but by the end of September we should have a handle on the extent to which reinfections are a problem.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

L.C.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/28/2020 8:09:31 PM

This continues to be a sad, hidden story of Covid19; "mild" cases are mild in the sense that the patient doesn't need to be hospitalized, but for some it may take months to recover, and doctors have no idea why some take longer than others:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/06/cor...
https://www.today.com/health/covid-19-long-haulers-doctor...
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/what-it-means-to-be-a-... /

CDC says 1/3 of people who aren't hospitalized have long term illness:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/monumental-ack...
In this case, CDC describes "long term" as not being able to return to work within 3 weeks. That leaves a broad range of people, from people that take 22 days to completely recover, to those that still haven't completely recovered after 4 months, so it's not all that helpful. I'd rather they break the data down with more precision, especially giving us data on how many don't recover completely after some longer period, say 2 months.

In a German study, they took 100 people who had recovered from Covid for at least two weeks, and invited them to participate in their study. For the 100 people in the study, they gave them an MRI to look for heart damage. 78% of them revealed "cardiac involvement", and 60% showed "ongoing myocardial inflammation, which was independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and the time from the original diagnosis."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullartic...

Last Edited: 7/28/2020 8:31:35 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

allen
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/28/2020 10:09:50 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

. wrote:

Sorry to hear that

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/29/2020 10:30:04 AM

L.C. wrote:

Another study has found evidence that patients who have had Covid may have heart damage. Out of 100 patients studied, 76 showed cardiac injury in line with what one would expect from a heart attack.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/longevity...

As this goes on, there seem to be as many questions as answers.

rpbobcat
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/29/2020 10:40:52 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

According to an article I read,autopsies of people who died from Covid showed
a number of people had widespread clotting.
That would be in line with heart damage similar to a heart attack.

That's one of the reasons they are treating covid patients with anticoagulants.

I also heard on WFAN that MRI's of patients showed microscopic lesions on the lungs.
They don't affect the average person,but could impact high level athletes.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/29/2020 10:52:23 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Very interesting. Certainly adds a different wrinkle to the idea that 14 Miami Marlins tested positive last week. If it begins to become clear that Covid could present a longterm threat to athlete's careers, I would expect more and more to begin to opt-out.

The Optimist
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/29/2020 11:07:30 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Players opt-out in the prime of their career, only to realize in three years when there is a vaccine some kid now has a better 40 time than them...

I've seen crazier things happen.

rpbobcat
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/29/2020 12:07:00 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Baseball isn't an endurance sport,I don't think its an issue.

The people on WFAN were talking about track,cycling,swimming,wrestling,
to some extent,basketball,and certain positions in football (don't think a kicker has to worry).

Again,according to WFAN ,the first group of Marlin players that came back positive were all hanging out together in a strip club.

rpbobcat
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/29/2020 12:10:56 PM

The Optimist wrote:

Players opt-out in the prime of their career, only to realize in three years when there is a vaccine some kid now has a better 40 time than them...

According to WFAN,right now,the team with the most opt-outs, are the Patriots.

Seem to be lot of older players,who already have rings and who could financially afford to take a year off.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/29/2020 12:54:42 PM

The Optimist wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Players opt-out in the prime of their career, only to realize in three years when there is a vaccine some kid now has a better 40 time than them...

You mean in twelve years. Vaccine in three, and then the nine years it's going to take to convince anti-vaxxers that it's not a government mind control serum.

L.C.
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/29/2020 1:08:21 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

L.C. wrote:

...
In a German study, they took 100 people who had recovered from Covid for at least two weeks, and invited them to participate in their study. For the 100 people in the study, they gave them an MRI to look for heart damage. 78% of them revealed "cardiac involvement", and 60% showed "ongoing myocardial inflammation, which was independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and the time from the original diagnosis."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullartic...

That's a news article based on the study I linked to above.

From your article:

thehill wrote:

...Researchers said two-thirds of the patients had recovered at home and many did not suspect they had anything wrong with their hearts.

So, these were in many cases "mild" cases, where the patient believes they have completely recovered.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

...You mean in twelve years. Vaccine in three, and then the nine years it's going to take to convince anti-vaxxers that it's not a government mind control serum.

Yes, there are some that believe the vaccine is a mind control serum, or something, but they are a small number. There is a much larger number of people who are concerned about the extremely rapid testing going on, and whether the vaccines will be rolled out before they are adequately tested. The leading contenders for a vaccine are either weakened adenoviruses with the spike protein added (China, Russia, Oxford), or mRNA vaccines (Moderna, Pfizer, BioNTech). Neither type has ever been used for an approved vaccine before. Merck is well behind the leaders, but working on two different approaches, one based on their Ebola vaccine, and another based on a measles vaccine:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/merck-one-big-pha...

Roger Perlmutter, president of Merck Research Laboratories wrote:

Most vaccine projects fail�it�s very difficult to make a vaccine. So if I�m going to start making a vaccine, I�d like to be thoughtful about which vaccine platforms have the greatest likelihood of success.

It's worth pointing out that in the last 25 years, only about 9 entirely new vaccines have been approved for use. Of those, Merck developed 5, so I'm glad they are working on two different approaches for this, and that both are working on approaches that have been used before for approved vaccines.

With the expedited tested and manufacturing, it wouldn't surprise me if there is an approved vaccine by early next year. Will it be safe? Will it be effective? Will it be long lasting? Those are harder questions to answer. The bar has been set low, a reduction in severity 50% of the time is the goal, I believe. To be honest, I haven't decided whether I will get the vaccine ASAP or wait awhile. I don't want Covid, but neither do I want a vaccine that will trigger side effects and provide little protection, or short term protection only. It's a decision I will make when the time comes.

Last Edited: 7/29/2020 1:30:31 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

rpbobcat
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RE: Another problem of Covid?

Posted: 7/29/2020 1:43:20 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

You mean in twelve years. Vaccine in three, and then the nine years it's going to take to convince anti-vaxxers that it's not a government mind control serum.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer.

I never heard about the vaccine being a mind control serum.

I did hear people claiming it could have a nano chip in it,kind of like "Demolition Man".

Don't believe that either.

That being said,there's no way I even consider getting the vaccine for at least a couple of years.

As I understand it,the clinical tests determine the effectiveness of the vaccine against Covid.

Potential side effects don't become apparent until the vaccine has been in widespread circulation for a period of time.

I can tell you from a bad experience I had with Aleve,the side effect was worse then the pain.
In my case the side effect (muscle weakness) wasn't even on the package.
It may be now.
I researched it and was at the bottom of the list of potential side effects.

Lucky me.

Biggest joke.
I sent a letter to the manufacturer (Bayer) about it.

Got a letter back,thanking me for my comments,with a coupon for a free bottle.

Last Edited: 7/29/2020 1:44:27 PM by rpbobcat

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