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Topic: RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Topic: RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

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FearLeon
General User

Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 4,125

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/14/2019 8:50:01 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

When I've heard from our now former assistants that there was one on the table and that Schaus let it sit because he was interviewing elsewhere, yeah there's definitely blood in the water here. And if you're asking if this is a recent hot take, no this was from after last season when I heard this.....

(Using Kadeem Green as a verb is easily my new favorite thing in life. At least Jim Christian gave us one positive thing to hang onto)

Treg Setty will forever be a Bobcat legend for giving us the gift that will just keep on giving. #DontMakeMeKadeemGreenYourAss

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

left lane, hammer down
General User

Member Since: 3/25/2012
Location: Albany International Airport Tower
Post Count: 135

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/14/2019 9:09:19 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

I read the article entirely differently than anyone else who has posted so far. I saw it as a stinging indictment of Jim Schaus. If true, it sounds like Schaus gave Saul the cold shoulder treatment for the last two years. Not very professional, if you ask me. This helped flesh out a picture for me of JS that is increasingly negative. As I said earlier, I do wish they had fired JS and kept Saul. I suspect the JS will come through with a "oh wow" type hire to replace Saul, but this doesn't forgive the shabby treatment he's given Saul, if Arkley is accurate, and his portrayal of JS certainly fits my personal experience with the man -- aloof, condescending, self-centered, not open to input from others, and not willing to stray out of his comfort zone. I think at some point in the future, OHIO is going to look very stupid for having fired a coach of this caliber. One or two more years and the whole story might have looked very different. You just can't in good conscience not consider the terrible bad luck that Saul had with injuries. If Tony doesn't go down, we probably already have a MAC title under our belts. But, in JS's world, that doesn't count. Win now baby, regardless of the circumstances, or your out on your ass! This was no Brian Knorr that we just kicked out of town.

+1

That's the way I took Arkley's OPINON / EDITORIAL column also. Reading it got me to thinking how many times in the last few years I have ask Jason or Russ "wonder what JS is thinking about something". There answer always was "Don't know, HAE NOT TALKED TO HIM. " My caps not theirs. Guys need to re-read this it was all about JS not Saul.

Last Edited: 3/14/2019 10:01:24 PM by left lane, hammer down

Broomball @ Midnight!
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Post Count: 84

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/14/2019 9:30:59 PM

And Saul�s record, and state of the program in the MAC mater not.

He was well paid and failed at securing his future , even if the AD wasn�t a fan. WIN!

The author of the article being discussed here gave us a butter knife effort. Break out the chainsaw and do your job.

Maybe the new Prez make an AD change?

Last Edited: 3/14/2019 10:18:07 PM by Broomball @ Midnight!

You just got lesson number one: don't think; it can only hurt the ball club. - Crash Davis (1988)

BS Ohio '88 - MA Florida '92 - PhD Florida '10

left lane, hammer down
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Member Since: 3/25/2012
Location: Albany International Airport Tower
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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/14/2019 9:56:19 PM

Broomball @ Midnight! wrote:

And Saul�s record,and state of non-factor I�m the MAC matern not.

He was well paid and failed at securing his future , even its the AD wasn�t a fan. WIN!

The author of the article being discussed here gave us a butter knife effort. Break out the chainsaw and do your job.

Maybe the new Prez make an AD change?

Forget saul . Jason was not reporting. His opinion and yours are different.

I 1000% agree the new Prez needs to take a hard look at the JS track record.

Buck.Cat
General User

Member Since: 12/21/2017
Post Count: 365

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/14/2019 10:17:00 PM

Reading his columns and tweets over the years, one would think that Arkley is covering a football team competing in the college football playoff and basketball team in the Final Four every year. Happy to see so many of you finally seeing the light. We should expect better. Playing dumb and dishonest throughout this saga is how you get passed by sports writers in college that are still developing their craft.

lovebobcat
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Member Since: 12/23/2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 505

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/14/2019 10:24:05 PM

The main takeaway of this thread should be this: Arkley wrote an OPINION piece. He is entitled to whatever opinion he wants in such a piece.

The rest of his articles in the Messenger are factual, and -- as a former sportwriter myself -- I can tell you he does an excellent job reporting the facts. He is a high-caliber reporter for this market size. And as for 71 BOBCAT's criticism of Arkley "lacking motivation" to go to a bigger city... um, maybe he doesn't want to. Should people criticize any of us for not moving to, say, New York City?

Guys, WHO CARES about this article in the big picture? What's done is done. We all wish Saul well, and we all agree Schaus is under pressure to hit a home run with the next hire. Debating about if OU is too "win oriented" doesn't matter much. Let's go get a good coach and win... and I will personally hope he's a nice guy too.

In the meantime, I'm happy to have Jason Arkley on the beat.

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/14/2019 10:33:52 PM

Buck.Cat wrote:

Do you spend the money to get a messenger subscription?

.
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Member Since: 2/3/2005
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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/14/2019 11:05:48 PM

lovebobcat wrote:

The rest of his articles in the Messenger are factual, and -- as a former sportwriter myself -- I can tell you he does an excellent job reporting the facts. He is a high-caliber reporter for this market size. And as for 71 BOBCAT's criticism of Arkley "lacking motivation" to go to a bigger city... um, maybe he doesn't want to. Should people criticize any of us for not moving to, say, New York City?

There really is no ladder upwards anymore, anyways. The mid-tier markets are gone. The big boys hire straight out of the elite schools. Staying in small markets really proved to be the best way to survive in the medium run. There�s no money, but it�s been somewhat stable. Not much longer, though.

cc-cat
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Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 3,821

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/14/2019 11:40:08 PM

Bottom line - as the article points out - you gotta win. Saul knew that coming in. Every coach does,

It's why Groce told Treg he didn't want him here. He didn't have the luxury or interest in helping a kid from a broken home realize his dream of playing at Ohio. He found a better recruit (or so he thought) and pulled Treg's offer and never looked back. Who ever can help him win gets the offer - sorry, I found someone better than you. Someone who can help me win. Its why Christian could care less that we think he's an ass. Win or go home/away. The coaches know it. The writers know it. Everyone on this board knows it. Its why folks have been calling for Saul's head since December. And the next coach knows it as well.

You got to win. Now. Or you lose...your job. That's life.

Last Edited: 3/14/2019 11:41:51 PM by cc-cat

BobcatPride
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Member Since: 3/14/2005
Post Count: 137

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 12:36:21 AM

This IS an opinion piece. And surely, Arkley is entitled to his opinion. I�m also entitled to mine, and when I read his piece, my first opinion was that Arkley should disengage his cranium from up inside Saul�s gluteus maximus. The emotion in Arkly�s words indicates (in my opinion) that he got way too personally attached to Saul for a beat writer. You need some level of objectivity, and if you want to criticize him as a sports writer, that would be a valid thing to bring up.

I, for one, have grown tired of hearing about injuries as an excuse for this team�s performance. And I�m definitely over it being used as some reason why Saul should have been retained. Were the injuries unfortunate and untimely? Yes. Did they impact the team�s ability to win games? Yes. But the only reason why the injuries were SO impactful was because SAUL COULDN�T RECRUIT!

Over the past three years, if Saul had been able to attract a depth of MAC talent to the roster, the injuries would have been less impactful. None of the Saul apologists (including Arkley, clearly) seem to be willing to connect those dots. They just stop at �The injuries were devastating� without fully acknowledging why. There were nowhere near enough good players behind those who were getting injured to pick up the additional workload.

Maybe JS realized this and didn�t want to continue this cycle of ineffective recruiting. I don�t think we�ll ever really know. Let�s hope the next coach does recruit the talent needed to win AND does so in a scandal-free way. I still think that at OHIO, those two things can be accomplished.

Last Edited: 3/15/2019 12:39:33 AM by BobcatPride

allen
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Member Since: 1/24/2006
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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 9:43:28 AM

Broomball @ Midnight! wrote:

The AD is fine, he made a necessary change and some of the saulcoholics have some hurt feelings. Go Cats

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
Post Count: 4,306

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 10:28:38 AM

I think some of you really like to romanticize about the strength and depth of benches in mac hoops.

Recovering Journalist
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,839

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 10:41:03 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

I think some of you really like to romanticize about the strength and depth of benches in mac hoops.

No, some of us want all of our scholarships to be used on players who can actually compete in the MAC.

bobcatsquared
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 5,039

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 10:42:44 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

I think some of you really like to romanticize about the strength and depth of benches in mac hoops.

Funny you say that. While watching some of the quarterfinals last night, I was thinking the teams playing in Cleveland this weekend not only have better athletes than what Ohio has, but also deeper rosters.

BobcatPride
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Member Since: 3/14/2005
Post Count: 137

Status: Offline

RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 11:03:09 AM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

I think some of you really like to romanticize about the strength and depth of benches in mac hoops.

No, some of us want all of our scholarships to be used on players who can actually compete in the MAC.

+1
I hope we can say MOST of us want that.

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 11:58:40 AM

allen wrote:

Broomball @ Midnight! wrote:

The AD is fine, he made a necessary change and some of the saulcoholics have some hurt feelings. Go Cats

Another day, another dolt calling people a 'saulaholic' because they don't think the same way you do. Enough with it man. He's gone, move on from this juvenile crap.

And if you think the AD is fine, you're not paying close enough attention. He obviously is right now, but if the seat isn't getting warm, OU will be demonstrating what is important - and winning isn't it.

JSF
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Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,341

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 12:55:56 PM

If Saul is responsible for his W-L record, no matter what, so be it.

I would posit the athletic director is responsible, no matter what, for getting into a contract he couldn't get out of and failing to raise the funds necessary when a change needed to be made.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

GraffZ06
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Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 2:30:49 PM

JSF wrote:

Bingo. Agree on both accounts.

This is why I think we see our next HC making less than Saul did. Because A)I don't think our President, our AD, the OBC or anybody else is raising the funds required (or even have the desire to) put more money into athletics and B) We don't want to find ourselves tied to yet another lame duck coach in 3-4 years if they aren't performing and not being able to afford to buy them out and move on if desired, like happened here with Saul.

Bobcat-7.0
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Member Since: 12/19/2013
Post Count: 160

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 2:51:04 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

[QUOTE=JSF]

This is why I think we see our next HC making less than Saul did. Because A)I don't think our President, our AD, the OBC or anybody else is raising the funds required (or even have the desire to) put more money into athletics and B) We don't want to find ourselves tied to yet another lame duck coach in 3-4 years if they aren't performing and not being able to afford to buy them out and move on if desired, like happened here with Saul.

My guess is that the next coach will make the same as Saul if not slightly more. His contact will be no less than 4-5 years.

Buck.Cat
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Member Since: 12/21/2017
Post Count: 365

Status: Offline

RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 2:55:39 PM

Brian Smith wrote:

I think there are still plenty of opportunities to report and write. It requires a lot of hustle. While traditional papers continue to die, online is wide open.

OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 3:30:18 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

JSF wrote:

I can't speculate about the dollars because we don't have a very good feel for where they'll stand on that right now. I'd argue against less than 4 years though because I can't see any solid coaching candidate taking less than 4 years from the start because they'll have a couple years to build things up the way they want it, then only a couple more years with "their players" to show what they can really do. For that reason, for me, anything less than 4 years isn't a good thing.

GroverBall
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Member Since: 12/3/2012
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 1,241

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 4:23:34 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Calm down. Arkley laid out a reasonable argument complete with a timeline that showed he turned around a bare cupboard into 2 very solid seasons, then injuries and a lack of extension hurt the results of the last 2. Nothing he said is unreasonable. Also, he is human...it is OK for him to like someone and defend them.

This. Calm down people. The out-of-control emotion of many on this board is just ridiculous. Saul is no longer, please just move on.

GroverBall
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 4:26:27 PM

lovebobcat wrote:

And this. Andrew and lovebobcat have some sense. bobcatlove seems to need to pout over being blocked on twitter. poor, poor bobcatlove, how will you go on?

Jerry86
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Member Since: 12/18/2010
Post Count: 645

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/15/2019 8:18:31 PM

GroverBall wrote:

lovebobcat wrote:

And this. Andrew and lovebobcat have some sense. bobcatlove seems to need to pout over being blocked on twitter. poor, poor bobcatlove, how will you go on?

Bobcatlove wants Pitino .. nuff said. Hey, let's cheat or do whatever other unethical or illegal things we need to do to win. Gotta love alums who want to win at no cost.

Townie1977
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Member Since: 1/12/2015
Location: Etna, OH
Post Count: 82

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RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Posted: 3/17/2019 6:18:28 PM

To stay in step, Arkley continues his Saul-fanboy melt down on twitter. A few really bad looks and an awful rebuttal to a Bradley reference. Maybe Saul will have a guest room at his next stop.

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