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Topic:  RE: Suppose...

Topic:  RE: Suppose...
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Gman
General User

Member Since: 5/16/2018
Post Count: 153

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Suppose...
   Posted: 2/8/2019 1:48:30 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Gman wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Gman wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Gman wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Gman wrote:
I have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than those things happening in the 1st post.


How dare you just dismiss any chance these fine young men have at success. They're working hard and giving it everything they got, who are you but some grown ass man to tell them they don't have a shot???



They have a piss poor coach that don't give a damn and has quit on his players plus the players have quit on Saul. but nice try tho "Andy the Facts Man" do the math with Saul's past record and let me know what ya come up with.




So much anger over a guy we all know is gone in less than two months. Why not just move on? Interesting how being angry at, or saying they don't care and have quit, about an Ohio Student Athlete for any reason isn't OK to you though.



Angry and Move on ? You all keep making posts about Saul, You think Saul has this team set up for success ? Hell No !!! these players are just going through the motions, running the Offense and Defense that Saul has taught them and we are seeing first hand how that's turning out. Getting blown out of games, (which most of you used the word EMBARRASSING when Ohio lost to Akron) also losing not (loosing) big leads it all falls back on one person Saul Phillips.



I didn't say I disagreed with you, and I don't think as constituted right now that they're set up for success down the road or right now. I said you're being (in my opinion) excessively angry in a situation where we know what's gonna happen in a couple months. THAT is where the "moving on" part of the thought comes in. But I also find it interesting that absolutely blasting the coach is okay, but saying one thing about a 22 year old player is not. But to each their own.

Side note, what's your thought on smooth talkin' Jimmy the AD? ;-)



I can give you over $3 million reason why blasting a coach is ok and $3 million reasons why its NOT ok to blast a 22 yr old, The $3 million coach is suppose to set the 22 year old up for success on the court, which our $3 million coach has FAILED to do so for 5 years, which therefore is not the 22 yr old's fault. The 22 year old just does what the $3 million coach tells him.



I love the continued argument that you and others make about how he "has FAILED to do so for 5 years". It's hilarious that we've magically forgotten the two good years out of five that our coach and his staff have had when they won 20 games and got the the MAC Semi's - one of which was a whisker away from being a MAC Finals appearance.

Also, if getting angry about the salary is your thing, as it is for others, why is it that no one is directing any of that angst towards the people who willingly paid him that salary?

#ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmm
(that's for Fear Leon) ;-)



WOW won 20 games and MAC Semi-Finals , now say that again, MAC Semi-Finals in 5 years, If you want to accept FAILURE that's on you, but I don't accept it, As far as Schaus, he made the hire and he has realized he made a BAD hire, hence no contract extension, so kudo's to Schaus for nipping it in the bud now. All AD's make bad hire's in their tenure, you learn and move on.

Here's a fun fact OUCountry….. OUr last 4 Head Coaches have made the MAC Championship game in their 1st 5 years and 3 of them won it (Hunter, O'Shea, Groce) only Christian lost and Ohio went to NIT.

Last Edited: 2/8/2019 1:50:47 PM by Gman
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OU_Country
General User



Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Suppose...
   Posted: 2/8/2019 3:08:15 PM 
Gman wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Gman wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Gman wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Gman wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Gman wrote:
I have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than those things happening in the 1st post.


How dare you just dismiss any chance these fine young men have at success. They're working hard and giving it everything they got, who are you but some grown ass man to tell them they don't have a shot???



They have a piss poor coach that don't give a damn and has quit on his players plus the players have quit on Saul. but nice try tho "Andy the Facts Man" do the math with Saul's past record and let me know what ya come up with.




So much anger over a guy we all know is gone in less than two months. Why not just move on? Interesting how being angry at, or saying they don't care and have quit, about an Ohio Student Athlete for any reason isn't OK to you though.



Angry and Move on ? You all keep making posts about Saul, You think Saul has this team set up for success ? Hell No !!! these players are just going through the motions, running the Offense and Defense that Saul has taught them and we are seeing first hand how that's turning out. Getting blown out of games, (which most of you used the word EMBARRASSING when Ohio lost to Akron) also losing not (loosing) big leads it all falls back on one person Saul Phillips.



I didn't say I disagreed with you, and I don't think as constituted right now that they're set up for success down the road or right now. I said you're being (in my opinion) excessively angry in a situation where we know what's gonna happen in a couple months. THAT is where the "moving on" part of the thought comes in. But I also find it interesting that absolutely blasting the coach is okay, but saying one thing about a 22 year old player is not. But to each their own.

Side note, what's your thought on smooth talkin' Jimmy the AD? ;-)



I can give you over $3 million reason why blasting a coach is ok and $3 million reasons why its NOT ok to blast a 22 yr old, The $3 million coach is suppose to set the 22 year old up for success on the court, which our $3 million coach has FAILED to do so for 5 years, which therefore is not the 22 yr old's fault. The 22 year old just does what the $3 million coach tells him.



I love the continued argument that you and others make about how he "has FAILED to do so for 5 years". It's hilarious that we've magically forgotten the two good years out of five that our coach and his staff have had when they won 20 games and got the the MAC Semi's - one of which was a whisker away from being a MAC Finals appearance.

Also, if getting angry about the salary is your thing, as it is for others, why is it that no one is directing any of that angst towards the people who willingly paid him that salary?

#ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmm
(that's for Fear Leon) ;-)



WOW won 20 games and MAC Semi-Finals , now say that again, MAC Semi-Finals in 5 years, If you want to accept FAILURE that's on you, but I don't accept it, As far as Schaus, he made the hire and he has realized he made a BAD hire, hence no contract extension, so kudo's to Schaus for nipping it in the bud now. All AD's make bad hire's in their tenure, you learn and move on.

Here's a fun fact OUCountry….. OUr last 4 Head Coaches have made the MAC Championship game in their 1st 5 years and 3 of them won it (Hunter, O'Shea, Groce) only Christian lost and Ohio went to NIT.



Nice fun facts. Nice of you to assume I'm accepting failure when I'm instead just being objective and asking questions. Blind of you (and others) to not at least recognize the two good years that the three really bad years surrounded. Eve more blind is anyone willing give Jimbo and anyone else above him that is responsible for putting Ohio in this lame duck year situation an easy pass, but rail on Saul. They don't seem mutually exclusive to me.
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Mark Lembright '85
General User

Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Highland Heights, OH
Post Count: 2,447

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Suppose...
   Posted: 2/8/2019 4:42:49 PM 
I wonder if Phillips would WANT to come back if the team were to finish on a roll, then win the MAC Tournament, even if he were offered an extension. His thought process might be " **** you Ohio, I'm the very same coach that I was when you didn't want to offer me an extension and now that I've gotten the team in the NCAA tourney, now you want to extend me?!?" He might just feel the dye's been cast and want to leave Ohio no matter what.

Or, he might just happily take the extension and reap the financial rewards that presumably come with it.

But I'm not sure it's an automatic he'd accept an extension at this point.

Last Edited: 2/8/2019 4:43:19 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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GraffZ06
General User



Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 1,903

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Suppose...
   Posted: 2/8/2019 4:54:59 PM 
OU_Country wrote:

I love the continued argument that you and others make about how he "has FAILED to do so for 5 years". It's hilarious that we've magically forgotten the two good years out of five that our coach and his staff have had when they won 20 games and got the the MAC Semi's - one of which was a whisker away from being a MAC Finals appearance.


Of course this entirely depends on what your definition of "success" is. Reasonable people (apparently you and I) can disagree on that.

To me - "success" is:
Consistently finishing in the top 1/3 of the MAC (aka top 4) in terms of winning%
Making the MAC Tournament championship, on average, every 2-3 years.
Winning the MAC and making the NCAA, on average, every 4-5 years.
Winning NCAA games once there is gravy.

Some day in the future (we're not there yet) I'd love to be able to include things like:
Be ranked in the Top 25 at some point, on average, every couple years.
Obtain an at-large NCAA bid, on average, as often as we make the MAC Tournament Championship game (i.e. every time we make the tourney finals we should be either getting the auto bid or an at-large regardless of outcome).


So, mind you, nowhere in there did I talk about "20 win seasons", nor did I talk about "MAC Tournament semi-finals". As such - no, I don't consider either of those seasons "successful".

You do. We disagree. That's ok.
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GoCats105
General User

Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 6,910

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Suppose...
   Posted: 2/8/2019 6:03:05 PM 
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:
I wonder if Phillips would WANT to come back if the team were to finish on a roll, then win the MAC Tournament, even if he were offered an extension. His thought process might be " **** you Ohio, I'm the very same coach that I was when you didn't want to offer me an extension and now that I've gotten the team in the NCAA tourney, now you want to extend me?!?" He might just feel the dye's been cast and want to leave Ohio no matter what.

Or, he might just happily take the extension and reap the financial rewards that presumably come with it.

But I'm not sure it's an automatic he'd accept an extension at this point.



I see what you're saying, but he'd be stupid not to accept it. He has to see the writing on the wall. He knows what his record is at Ohio. If he wants to be mad at some fans and the AD for having higher expectations than where they've been during his tenure?

Well, there's the door -->
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OrlandoCat
General User

Member Since: 3/15/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 355

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Suppose...
   Posted: 2/8/2019 6:56:22 PM 
OU_Country wrote:


I love the continued argument that you and others make about how he "has FAILED to do so for 5 years". It's hilarious that we've magically forgotten the two good years out of five that our coach and his staff have had when they won 20 games and got the the MAC Semi's - one of which was a whisker away from being a MAC Finals appearance.


It wasn’t that long ago on this board we were arguing if Bobo the circus monkey could win 20 games coaching OU; the obvious implication being that 20 wins was a standard, not an accomplishment.

Nobody remembers teams that only make it to the MAC semis.

#MarchMatters

Last Edited: 2/8/2019 6:59:20 PM by OrlandoCat
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GraffZ06
General User



Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 1,903

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Suppose...
   Posted: 2/8/2019 9:32:30 PM 
OrlandoCat wrote:
OU_Country wrote:


I love the continued argument that you and others make about how he "has FAILED to do so for 5 years". It's hilarious that we've magically forgotten the two good years out of five that our coach and his staff have had when they won 20 games and got the the MAC Semi's - one of which was a whisker away from being a MAC Finals appearance.


It wasn’t that long ago on this board we were arguing if Bobo the circus monkey could win 20 games coaching OU; the obvious implication being that 20 wins was a standard, not an accomplishment.

Nobody remembers teams that only make it to the MAC semis.

#MarchMatters


+1.
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greencat
General User



Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 2,036

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Suppose...
   Posted: 2/8/2019 10:54:50 PM 
Per TeamRankings.com after the last game:

After losing to Akron 65-53 yesterday, Ohio is now projected to finish the regular season 14-16 (6-12 MAC).
• We currently rank Ohio as the #204 team in the country, and the #11 team in the MAC.
• Next game: Sat, Feb 9 at #156 Miami (OH). Our power ratings give the Bobcats a 25% chance to win.

Bracketology Projections
Make NCAA Tournament / Get Automatic NCAA Bid

0% / 0%
----------------------------------------------
MAC Tournament Projections
Get MAC #1 Seed / Projected Seed/ Win MAC Tournament
0% / 11 / 0%

Last Edited: 2/8/2019 10:55:44 PM by greencat
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OU_Country
General User



Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Suppose...
   Posted: 2/11/2019 12:12:48 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:

I love the continued argument that you and others make about how he "has FAILED to do so for 5 years". It's hilarious that we've magically forgotten the two good years out of five that our coach and his staff have had when they won 20 games and got the the MAC Semi's - one of which was a whisker away from being a MAC Finals appearance.


Of course this entirely depends on what your definition of "success" is. Reasonable people (apparently you and I) can disagree on that.

To me - "success" is:
Consistently finishing in the top 1/3 of the MAC (aka top 4) in terms of winning%
Making the MAC Tournament championship, on average, every 2-3 years.
Winning the MAC and making the NCAA, on average, every 4-5 years.
Winning NCAA games once there is gravy.

Some day in the future (we're not there yet) I'd love to be able to include things like:
Be ranked in the Top 25 at some point, on average, every couple years.
Obtain an at-large NCAA bid, on average, as often as we make the MAC Tournament Championship game (i.e. every time we make the tourney finals we should be either getting the auto bid or an at-large regardless of outcome).


So, mind you, nowhere in there did I talk about "20 win seasons", nor did I talk about "MAC Tournament semi-finals". As such - no, I don't consider either of those seasons "successful".

You do. We disagree. That's ok.



Agreed - It is OK that we disagree. I think the goals, every year should be similar to wait you laid out in the first list. For me, the goal most years should be, in order of what I find important. The first one has nothing to do with wins and losses because without it, winning is harder:

Minimally:
-Recruiting guards and wings that allow the team to match up defensively against programs with more resources to steal OOC wins. Guard play and defense wins in March, and the run up to March. Defense travels to tough environments when bad shooting happens.
-Play an entertaining brand of basketball fans can get behind.
-Getting to Cleveland in general, regardless of record, annually. Because anything can happen in conference tournament basketball. 2010 proved that.


After that, every year the goal should be:
-Top 4 finish to get the bye to Cleveland
-Getting to the MAC Semi's on average, every other year, because winning in conference tournament basketball is sometimes a crap shoot. I leave out the finals because of that, even though that should be the ultimate goal.

For me, it all starts with playing defense and rebounding better than all but the other elite teams in your conference. In 2016-17, Ohio was that type of team.


Now, obviously, the ultimate goals are:

Hanging one of, or both conference championship banners. But you can't get to those if the foundations aren't in place. And right now, the foundations are not in place. At this moment, I don't personally think we have any healthy guards that would even get time on the floor If the ultimate, ultimate goal is to be where UB is, and being in the at-large conversation, it requires some dollars invested that I'm not sure Ohio is going to spend.

And NCAA success has two parts in my opinion. The first is goal number one at the top - playing defense that can match up and hopefully keep you in a tournament game. The second is just flat getting lucky in your draw on Selection Sunday.



Beyond that though, me as a fan an alumnus, I want to see entertaining basketball, and have the chance to attend games that matter in fun environments with a lot of butts in seats. We're a few years removed from that here. I was at BG vs Toledo Saturday night, and it was the best game I've been at in person in 2-3 years. It was the best MAC game I've seen in person since the OU vs Akron undefeated match-up in 2013. I'd really like to see those days again in Athens - sooner than later.

Another factor that doesn't often get discussed is how the team(s) represent the university. One thing I've always appreciated with Saul's teams is that we don't have players creating issues off the court for the most part. That also matters to me when it comes to my expectations of the program, and "success".

I guess at the end of the day, I rarely come into a season with a "for me to enjoy this season, or supporting this program over the next few years, they have to check these boxes for me." More than anything, I want to watch entertaining basketball, and have a nice game day experience that makes me want to drive the 86-88 miles one way from Columbus for literally every game. That, without hesitation, are the boxes that I want checked. Both parts of that statement have remained unchecked for two years. And while winning masks a lot of the lacking gameday experiences and atmosphere, that's part of the picture for me, and it's absolutely lacking. And the fan experience is something that can, and should, always been very good regardless of wins and losses. I don't think it is right now.

Last Edited: 2/11/2019 12:21:47 PM by OU_Country
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