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Ohio Basketball
Topic:  RE: Future Coach

Topic:  RE: Future Coach
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longtiimelurker
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Member Since: 2/2/2017
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 9:38:37 AM 
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:
Diamond Cat wrote:
While I would be cool with Geno, some rumor mills are saying it's this guy:

Ryan Pedon

2017 Ė Ohio State, Assistant Coach
2015-17 Ė Butler University, Assistant Coach
2013-15 Ė Illinois, Assistant to the Head Coach
2010-13 Ė Toledo, Assistant Coach
2005-10 Ė Miami (Ohio), Assistant Coach
2002-05 Ė Kent State, Director of Basketball Operations
2000-02 Ė Miami (Ohio), Graduate Assistant

I think Buckeye to Bobcat is on to this possible hire. As you said, he will need every bit of $600K to come to Athens.



I'm just not sold on Pedon. Yes we had success with Groce as an assistant from OSU. But when he was lead assistant OSU was coming off of back-to-back seasons as a 2 seed then a 1 seed. OSU is on track to be a 10 seed this year. That doesn't impress me as much.

If we are going the assistant direction I'd rather go with Dane Fife from MSU or Luke Murray from Louisville.


Your choice, but Pedon is excellent. Well prepared, meticulous, good recruiter. By that metric Holtmann is a bad hire for Ohio State. What Holtmann is getting out of the Buckeyes is not at all on Pedon nor is what he did under Coach Coles. Wonder what ever happened to Coach Henderson over in Oxford as well.

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OU_Country
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Location: US33 between Athens and the 'Bus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 11:54:14 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Flomo-genized wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:

With this line of thinking, I'm wondering if the right choice from the get-go was Dustin Ford. The players wanted him, but seemingly nobody else did.


In hindsight, I'm not sure we could be in much worse shape today had we gone with Dustin in 2012. That having been said, I'm still not convinced he was ready.

Instead, the alternative history I prefer to live in is one where we convinced Holtmann to stay as coach-in-waiting rather than jump to Gardner Webb. When Groce gets the call in 2012, Holtmann replaces him without missing a beat, with Dustin promoted to associate HC. They convince Lavert and Bradds to stay the course, and we continue to build on the 2012 run in the subsequent years. By 2015 or 16, Holtmann gets the call for a P5 job, and Dustin gets the HC job.



Exactly, sir.


I second the "Exactly, sir". This is the coaching culture that every mid-major program aspiring to be consistently good should aim to build. It worked out really well for Xavier for a long time, and has worked well for UB to this point.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 2:29:24 PM 
Yeah, I agree. Flomogenized articulated what has been buzzing around in my head for a long time.
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Brian Smith
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 2:44:41 PM 
The path really was there. It's so fleeting, though. You have to get that second hire right.


Been kicking up sparks/we set the flames free/The windows are locked now so what'll it be?/A house on fire or a rising sea?

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OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: US33 between Athens and the 'Bus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 3:38:36 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Yeah, I agree. Flomogenized articulated what has been buzzing around in my head for a long time.


Sorta the same here. Since the transition through two coaches, while watching UB's transition as well, I've been thinking "who on this Ohio staff would be able to make the next step to a higher level as an assistant, or to become a head coach elsewhere?" To me, that's a quality that Schaus, and every other mid-major AD in America should be looking for - a head coach who puts guys on his staff that are either previous head coaches, or future head coaches. To me, that's how you build a program. There's a reason "The Butler Way" has worked pretty well for awhile. Same for XU. They both have a consistent culture and consistent way they go about things even after a coaching change happens.

Once again, much of that culture, and way of doing things, probably starts above the basketball head coach. It starts with the University President and the AD having a vision for what they're going to be.

More and more, I wonder if the driving force behind things was McDavis than anything else. Who knows...water under the bridge at this point.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 6:23:14 PM 
Flomo-genized wrote:
Two more thoughts. First, while Schaus's desire to land experienced head coaches is admirable, ultimately it limits the pool of qualified candidates to much too small a field. It's going to be a pretty slim group of guys who are willing to leave another successful stint at a D-1 job to come here. Anyone great would already have been snatched up by a bigger fish, so we're inherently settling for a flawed candidate or someone without much ambition.

Second, we need to develop a consistent identity. Part of the problem the last 7 years is that we've bounced between very different coaching styles with each hire, from Groce to Christian to Phillips. That requires you to largely start from scratch recruiting wise each time, while you wait to get guys in who fit the new system.

The elite mid-majors (Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga), have stuck to a single system and always hired from within. Even in the MAC, Kent State's 2002 Elite Eight team and Buffalo this year and last had former assistants at the helm (Stan Heath and Oats) after the initial successful hires had moved on (Gary Waters and Hurley).

Schaus's mistake, in my mind, has been to become so overly enamored with prior HC experience that he has overlooked any semblance of program continuity. Moving forward we need to pick a style, stick to it, and develop second-chair guys ready to move up when the time comes.


In fairness, we did try this route twice and it failed miserably in both cases (Bandy & Hahn). I like the idea but you have to really catch lightning in a bottle and get lucky with the replacement. Our two most successful coaches in the last 40 years were both outside hires in their first coaching gigs.
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BobcatBeReal
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 6:29:33 PM 
So, I'm always amazed when I jump on here and see all the negativity on this site. I am also amazed at how quickly, when adversity hits, that you always want to fire the coach and start over. So, you really want to start over. Scrap everything Coach Phillips has done and start again. Before you all get on this boat, maybe we should take one more look at the state of our basketball program.
Maybe we should take a deep look at what has happened and ask just a few questions.
First, I'll grant you that we have done as well as I had hoped. And maybe in today's sports we shouldn't look at BAD luck. So maybe I shouldn't bring up the fact that we were on our way to a MAC championship 3 years ago when Antonio Campbell went down with broken foot. (You remember him, MAC player of the year the previous year). Not much a coach can do about that, hard to draw up a play to get you 17 points per game.
Then Coach Phillips did make a BIG mistake believing Jaaron Simmons when he insisted that he was returning. Yep, your right, I would never have believed him but Coach Phillips did. So, another unexpected loss.
Then you go into the season and three days in you lose Jason Carter for the year. Then as the season progresses you at one time or another have 11 players out with injuries, 5 of them requiring surgery either during or at the conclusion of the season. Oh, btw, one of the injuries was to Ben Vander Plas that ended up taking a Red Shirt.
That gets us to this year. Now we have Dartis missing the entire season and James Gallon go down with career ending injury. The two guys that can really put the ball in the basket done.
So, yes, Saul Phillips has had a bad run of bad luck, and if you want to fire him for that, there is a good chance that the AD will grant your wishes but I will tell you this, THE GUY CAN COACH. I know coaching and Saul Phillips can flat out coach.
Just to set record straight, let's also look how he stacks up with the other current MAC coaches, with all this BAD luck.Below is list of MAC coaches and the records while at the school.
Buffalo, Nate Oats (4 years) 88-42 (676)
Kent, Bob Senderoff (8 years) 158-104 (603)
WMU, Steve Kawkins (15 years) 270-219 (552)
Toledo Tod Kowalczyk (10 Years) 142-121 (539)
EMU, Rob Murphy (7 years) 134-117 (534)
Ohio, Saul Phillips (5 years) 73-65 (539)
CMU, Keno Davis (7 years) 117-105 (527)
BGSU, Mike Huger (5 years) 64-61 (512)
Miami, Jack Owens (2 years) 30-31 (491)
Akron, John Groce (2 years) 24-25 (489)
NIU, Mark Montgomery (8 years) 100-142 (413)

So, Saul Phillips, with all of his bad luck, is still in top half of conference with winning percentage compared with all others in conference.
Oh, and by the way, for all you John Groce lovers, let's compare their first four years records at Ohio in MAC Games.
Groce 34-30
Phillips 31-31
Ever wonder what Phillips would look like with GOOD LUCK.
One final issue and then I'll get off here and let you haters go to work.
Are you sure you really want to start over?
60 % of our scoring this year is coming from 2 sophomores and 2 freshman.
Has any one ask Jason Carter what he'll do if there is a coaching change? Or don't you care, get rid of him and start over? How about Ben? How about Jay?
OH, and while we are on it, What about Dartis, any chance he could Grad Transfer if we change coaches. Someone might want to ask question. That is, unless you really want to start over. And then ask yourself how long it's going to take to get back to where we are in building a program with high character student athletes. Oh, and just one last issue. What do you think will happen with our recruits coming in? We have a great class coming in, you think we'll be able to keep them?
My vote, give coach one more year. Let's see that he can do with top 3 scorers from this year coming back and adding Dartis. It's about his time for some good luck, hope it's not at another school,.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 7:51:18 PM 
BobcatBeReal wrote:
So, I'm always amazed when I jump on here and see all the negativity on this site. I am also amazed at how quickly, when adversity hits, that you always want to fire the coach and start over. So, you really want to start over. Scrap everything Coach Phillips has done and start again. Before you all get on this boat, maybe we should take one more look at the state of our basketball program.
Maybe we should take a deep look at what has happened and ask just a few questions.
First, I'll grant you that we have done as well as I had hoped. And maybe in today's sports we shouldn't look at BAD luck. So maybe I shouldn't bring up the fact that we were on our way to a MAC championship 3 years ago when Antonio Campbell went down with broken foot. (You remember him, MAC player of the year the previous year). Not much a coach can do about that, hard to draw up a play to get you 17 points per game.
Then Coach Phillips did make a BIG mistake believing Jaaron Simmons when he insisted that he was returning. Yep, your right, I would never have believed him but Coach Phillips did. So, another unexpected loss.
Then you go into the season and three days in you lose Jason Carter for the year. Then as the season progresses you at one time or another have 11 players out with injuries, 5 of them requiring surgery either during or at the conclusion of the season. Oh, btw, one of the injuries was to Ben Vander Plas that ended up taking a Red Shirt.
That gets us to this year. Now we have Dartis missing the entire season and James Gallon go down with career ending injury. The two guys that can really put the ball in the basket done.
So, yes, Saul Phillips has had a bad run of bad luck, and if you want to fire him for that, there is a good chance that the AD will grant your wishes but I will tell you this, THE GUY CAN COACH. I know coaching and Saul Phillips can flat out coach.
Just to set record straight, let's also look how he stacks up with the other current MAC coaches, with all this BAD luck.Below is list of MAC coaches and the records while at the school.
Buffalo, Nate Oats (4 years) 88-42 (676)
Kent, Bob Senderoff (8 years) 158-104 (603)
WMU, Steve Kawkins (15 years) 270-219 (552)
Toledo Tod Kowalczyk (10 Years) 142-121 (539)
EMU, Rob Murphy (7 years) 134-117 (534)
Ohio, Saul Phillips (5 years) 73-65 (539)
CMU, Keno Davis (7 years) 117-105 (527)
BGSU, Mike Huger (5 years) 64-61 (512)
Miami, Jack Owens (2 years) 30-31 (491)
Akron, John Groce (2 years) 24-25 (489)
NIU, Mark Montgomery (8 years) 100-142 (413)

So, Saul Phillips, with all of his bad luck, is still in top half of conference with winning percentage compared with all others in conference.
Oh, and by the way, for all you John Groce lovers, let's compare their first four years records at Ohio in MAC Games.
Groce 34-30
Phillips 31-31
Ever wonder what Phillips would look like with GOOD LUCK.
One final issue and then I'll get off here and let you haters go to work.
Are you sure you really want to start over?
60 % of our scoring this year is coming from 2 sophomores and 2 freshman.
Has any one ask Jason Carter what he'll do if there is a coaching change? Or don't you care, get rid of him and start over? How about Ben? How about Jay?
OH, and while we are on it, What about Dartis, any chance he could Grad Transfer if we change coaches. Someone might want to ask question. That is, unless you really want to start over. And then ask yourself how long it's going to take to get back to where we are in building a program with high character student athletes. Oh, and just one last issue. What do you think will happen with our recruits coming in? We have a great class coming in, you think we'll be able to keep them?
My vote, give coach one more year. Let's see that he can do with top 3 scorers from this year coming back and adding Dartis. It's about his time for some good luck, hope it's not at another school,.


I'm going to guess that you haven't watched many games this year. I was willing to give him the injury pass up until this year. We've now had 4 of 5 years where our starting PG has done whatever the heck he wants to on the court with no repercussions. Saul hasn't shown the slightest ability to adjust to the talent he has. I like Saul and I'll root for him where ever he lands but it won't be here. Time to change the script.
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BuddyLee
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 8:08:43 PM 
The bad luck card only goes so far. From what I can see on court and in recruiting, weíre just not trending in the right direction to commit to Saul for the longer term.
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BobcatBeReal
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 9:09:06 PM 
OUVan wrote:
BobcatBeReal wrote:
So, I'm always amazed when I jump on here and see all the negativity on this site. I am also amazed at how quickly, when adversity hits, that you always want to fire the coach and start over. So, you really want to start over. Scrap everything Coach Phillips has done and start again. Before you all get on this boat, maybe we should take one more look at the state of our basketball program.
Maybe we should take a deep look at what has happened and ask just a few questions.
First, I'll grant you that we have done as well as I had hoped. And maybe in today's sports we shouldn't look at BAD luck. So maybe I shouldn't bring up the fact that we were on our way to a MAC championship 3 years ago when Antonio Campbell went down with broken foot. (You remember him, MAC player of the year the previous year). Not much a coach can do about that, hard to draw up a play to get you 17 points per game.
Then Coach Phillips did make a BIG mistake believing Jaaron Simmons when he insisted that he was returning. Yep, your right, I would never have believed him but Coach Phillips did. So, another unexpected loss.
Then you go into the season and three days in you lose Jason Carter for the year. Then as the season progresses you at one time or another have 11 players out with injuries, 5 of them requiring surgery either during or at the conclusion of the season. Oh, btw, one of the injuries was to Ben Vander Plas that ended up taking a Red Shirt.
That gets us to this year. Now we have Dartis missing the entire season and James Gallon go down with career ending injury. The two guys that can really put the ball in the basket done.
So, yes, Saul Phillips has had a bad run of bad luck, and if you want to fire him for that, there is a good chance that the AD will grant your wishes but I will tell you this, THE GUY CAN COACH. I know coaching and Saul Phillips can flat out coach.
Just to set record straight, let's also look how he stacks up with the other current MAC coaches, with all this BAD luck.Below is list of MAC coaches and the records while at the school.
Buffalo, Nate Oats (4 years) 88-42 (676)
Kent, Bob Senderoff (8 years) 158-104 (603)
WMU, Steve Kawkins (15 years) 270-219 (552)
Toledo Tod Kowalczyk (10 Years) 142-121 (539)
EMU, Rob Murphy (7 years) 134-117 (534)
Ohio, Saul Phillips (5 years) 73-65 (539)
CMU, Keno Davis (7 years) 117-105 (527)
BGSU, Mike Huger (5 years) 64-61 (512)
Miami, Jack Owens (2 years) 30-31 (491)
Akron, John Groce (2 years) 24-25 (489)
NIU, Mark Montgomery (8 years) 100-142 (413)

So, Saul Phillips, with all of his bad luck, is still in top half of conference with winning percentage compared with all others in conference.
Oh, and by the way, for all you John Groce lovers, let's compare their first four years records at Ohio in MAC Games.
Groce 34-30
Phillips 31-31
Ever wonder what Phillips would look like with GOOD LUCK.
One final issue and then I'll get off here and let you haters go to work.
Are you sure you really want to start over?
60 % of our scoring this year is coming from 2 sophomores and 2 freshman.
Has any one ask Jason Carter what he'll do if there is a coaching change? Or don't you care, get rid of him and start over? How about Ben? How about Jay?
OH, and while we are on it, What about Dartis, any chance he could Grad Transfer if we change coaches. Someone might want to ask question. That is, unless you really want to start over. And then ask yourself how long it's going to take to get back to where we are in building a program with high character student athletes. Oh, and just one last issue. What do you think will happen with our recruits coming in? We have a great class coming in, you think we'll be able to keep them?
My vote, give coach one more year. Let's see that he can do with top 3 scorers from this year coming back and adding Dartis. It's about his time for some good luck, hope it's not at another school,.


I'm going to guess that you haven't watched many games this year. I was willing to give him the injury pass up until this year. We've now had 4 of 5 years where our starting PG has done whatever the heck he wants to on the court with no repercussions. Saul hasn't shown the slightest ability to adjust to the talent he has. I like Saul and I'll root for him where ever he lands but it won't be here. Time to change the script.


I've seen every game this year, home and away, including Jamaica, so your not very good at guessing. I have also seen the adjustments, sorry that you haven't, I guess that you haven't been watching quite as much. So, if you are that good at making adjustments, please indicate the ones you'd make. BTW, can you tell me how many different starting lineups he's gone with?
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Location: Cincinnati
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 10:12:24 PM 
BobcatBeReal wrote:
OUVan wrote:
BobcatBeReal wrote:
So, I'm always amazed when I jump on here and see all the negativity on this site. I am also amazed at how quickly, when adversity hits, that you always want to fire the coach and start over. So, you really want to start over. Scrap everything Coach Phillips has done and start again. Before you all get on this boat, maybe we should take one more look at the state of our basketball program.
Maybe we should take a deep look at what has happened and ask just a few questions.
First, I'll grant you that we have done as well as I had hoped. And maybe in today's sports we shouldn't look at BAD luck. So maybe I shouldn't bring up the fact that we were on our way to a MAC championship 3 years ago when Antonio Campbell went down with broken foot. (You remember him, MAC player of the year the previous year). Not much a coach can do about that, hard to draw up a play to get you 17 points per game.
Then Coach Phillips did make a BIG mistake believing Jaaron Simmons when he insisted that he was returning. Yep, your right, I would never have believed him but Coach Phillips did. So, another unexpected loss.
Then you go into the season and three days in you lose Jason Carter for the year. Then as the season progresses you at one time or another have 11 players out with injuries, 5 of them requiring surgery either during or at the conclusion of the season. Oh, btw, one of the injuries was to Ben Vander Plas that ended up taking a Red Shirt.
That gets us to this year. Now we have Dartis missing the entire season and James Gallon go down with career ending injury. The two guys that can really put the ball in the basket done.
So, yes, Saul Phillips has had a bad run of bad luck, and if you want to fire him for that, there is a good chance that the AD will grant your wishes but I will tell you this, THE GUY CAN COACH. I know coaching and Saul Phillips can flat out coach.
Just to set record straight, let's also look how he stacks up with the other current MAC coaches, with all this BAD luck.Below is list of MAC coaches and the records while at the school.
Buffalo, Nate Oats (4 years) 88-42 (676)
Kent, Bob Senderoff (8 years) 158-104 (603)
WMU, Steve Kawkins (15 years) 270-219 (552)
Toledo Tod Kowalczyk (10 Years) 142-121 (539)
EMU, Rob Murphy (7 years) 134-117 (534)
Ohio, Saul Phillips (5 years) 73-65 (539)
CMU, Keno Davis (7 years) 117-105 (527)
BGSU, Mike Huger (5 years) 64-61 (512)
Miami, Jack Owens (2 years) 30-31 (491)
Akron, John Groce (2 years) 24-25 (489)
NIU, Mark Montgomery (8 years) 100-142 (413)

So, Saul Phillips, with all of his bad luck, is still in top half of conference with winning percentage compared with all others in conference.
Oh, and by the way, for all you John Groce lovers, let's compare their first four years records at Ohio in MAC Games.
Groce 34-30
Phillips 31-31
Ever wonder what Phillips would look like with GOOD LUCK.
One final issue and then I'll get off here and let you haters go to work.
Are you sure you really want to start over?
60 % of our scoring this year is coming from 2 sophomores and 2 freshman.
Has any one ask Jason Carter what he'll do if there is a coaching change? Or don't you care, get rid of him and start over? How about Ben? How about Jay?
OH, and while we are on it, What about Dartis, any chance he could Grad Transfer if we change coaches. Someone might want to ask question. That is, unless you really want to start over. And then ask yourself how long it's going to take to get back to where we are in building a program with high character student athletes. Oh, and just one last issue. What do you think will happen with our recruits coming in? We have a great class coming in, you think we'll be able to keep them?
My vote, give coach one more year. Let's see that he can do with top 3 scorers from this year coming back and adding Dartis. It's about his time for some good luck, hope it's not at another school,.


I'm going to guess that you haven't watched many games this year. I was willing to give him the injury pass up until this year. We've now had 4 of 5 years where our starting PG has done whatever the heck he wants to on the court with no repercussions. Saul hasn't shown the slightest ability to adjust to the talent he has. I like Saul and I'll root for him where ever he lands but it won't be here. Time to change the script.


I've seen every game this year, home and away, including Jamaica, so your not very good at guessing. I have also seen the adjustments, sorry that you haven't, I guess that you haven't been watching quite as much. So, if you are that good at making adjustments, please indicate the ones you'd make. BTW, can you tell me how many different starting lineups he's gone with?


I actually think Saul is good at making mid-game adjustments. I actually do think he is a good in-game basketball coach. And I think he is getting as much out of this team as he can.

With that being said, he simply isn't brining in enough high quality talent to succeed at this level, and because of that we have to move on.

Yes, the injuries to Carter last year and Dartis this year have hurt, but in 2010 we lost two very talented players Jay Kinney and Steven Coleman during the year, and still beat Georgetown in the tournament. There just isn't enough talent top-to-bottom to repeat that this year.

We have brought in too many guys over the last three years that don't have enough offensive game for us to be relevant.
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BobcatBeReal
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 10:42:36 PM 
Don't totally disagree with your observations, just don't agree with your conclusion. The best programs, learn from mistakes and make changes, they don't just fire the coach. That knee jerk reaction doesn't provide stability in a program and in many cases causes a serious setback.
There are a number of issues within the program, but they aren't the head coach. All of them can be corrected. Why not correct them, especially when you have a coach that really knows how to coach.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/25/2019 11:18:11 PM 
BobcatBeReal wrote:

There are a number of issues within the program, but they aren't the head coach.


if not the head coach (and his poor recruiting) what do you see as the issues with the program? and ďinjuriesĒ are not a program issue.

Last Edited: 2/25/2019 11:19:09 PM by cc-cat

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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 8:30:41 AM 
BobcatBeReal wrote:
The best programs, learn from mistakes and make changes, they don't just fire the coach. That knee jerk reaction doesn't provide stability in a program and in many cases causes a serious setback.
There are a number of issues within the program, but they aren't the head coach. All of them can be corrected. Why not correct them, especially when you have a coach that really knows how to coach.


Knee-jerk reaction? He's has had five years to bring in his players and prove he's worth his lofty salary. Saul is a good man who was an awful disaster in terms of results and fan interest. You're fighting a battle that is already lost.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 8:58:20 AM 
BobcatBeReal wrote:
Don't totally disagree with your observations, just don't agree with your conclusion. The best programs, learn from mistakes and make changes, they don't just fire the coach. That knee jerk reaction doesn't provide stability in a program and in many cases causes a serious setback.
There are a number of issues within the program, but they aren't the head coach. All of them can be corrected. Why not correct them, especially when you have a coach that really knows how to coach.



If there are "issues within the program" that haven't been addressed by the coach over the past five years, bad on him.

Accountability.

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 9:42:01 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
BobcatBeReal wrote:
The best programs, learn from mistakes and make changes, they don't just fire the coach. That knee jerk reaction doesn't provide stability in a program and in many cases causes a serious setback.
There are a number of issues within the program, but they aren't the head coach. All of them can be corrected. Why not correct them, especially when you have a coach that really knows how to coach.


Knee-jerk reaction? He's has had five years to bring in his players and prove he's worth his lofty salary. Saul is a good man who was an awful disaster in terms of results and fan interest. You're fighting a battle that is already lost.


Yeah I'm with RJ here. Knee-jerk would have been firing him midseason last year coming off a 2nd place finish in the East then losing 3 of your best players to transfer or injury. This year, waiting to see if anything would happen for a full season, is not knee-jerk. He's had the chance to get back to that level and beyond and he hasn't been able to do it. At some point you have to take a look around and say "this isn't working."



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Bball Jones
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 1:16:08 PM 
I might suggest Lamont Parris, Head coach at Tennessee Chattanooga. Ohio ties (Akron), Big Ten experience (Wisconsin) and he recruits well! Has current Ohio guys on current staff!
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OU_Country
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Location: US33 between Athens and the 'Bus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 1:25:56 PM 
Bball Jones wrote:
I might suggest Lamont Parris, Head coach at Tennessee Chattanooga. Ohio ties (Akron), Big Ten experience (Wisconsin) and he recruits well! Has current Ohio guys on current staff!


Bring that whole staff up here. ;)
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 3:30:42 PM 
BobcatBeReal wrote:
So, I'm always amazed when I jump on here and see all the negativity on this site. I am also amazed at how quickly, when adversity hits, that you always want to fire the coach and start over. So, you really want to start over. Scrap everything Coach Phillips has done and start again. Before you all get on this boat, maybe we should take one more look at the state of our basketball program.
Maybe we should take a deep look at what has happened and ask just a few questions.
First, I'll grant you that we have done as well as I had hoped. And maybe in today's sports we shouldn't look at BAD luck. So maybe I shouldn't bring up the fact that we were on our way to a MAC championship 3 years ago when Antonio Campbell went down with broken foot. (You remember him, MAC player of the year the previous year). Not much a coach can do about that, hard to draw up a play to get you 17 points per game.
Then Coach Phillips did make a BIG mistake believing Jaaron Simmons when he insisted that he was returning. Yep, your right, I would never have believed him but Coach Phillips did. So, another unexpected loss.
Then you go into the season and three days in you lose Jason Carter for the year. Then as the season progresses you at one time or another have 11 players out with injuries, 5 of them requiring surgery either during or at the conclusion of the season. Oh, btw, one of the injuries was to Ben Vander Plas that ended up taking a Red Shirt.
That gets us to this year. Now we have Dartis missing the entire season and James Gallon go down with career ending injury. The two guys that can really put the ball in the basket done.
So, yes, Saul Phillips has had a bad run of bad luck, and if you want to fire him for that, there is a good chance that the AD will grant your wishes but I will tell you this, THE GUY CAN COACH. I know coaching and Saul Phillips can flat out coach.
Just to set record straight, let's also look how he stacks up with the other current MAC coaches, with all this BAD luck.Below is list of MAC coaches and the records while at the school.
Buffalo, Nate Oats (4 years) 88-42 (676)
Kent, Bob Senderoff (8 years) 158-104 (603)
WMU, Steve Kawkins (15 years) 270-219 (552)
Toledo Tod Kowalczyk (10 Years) 142-121 (539)
EMU, Rob Murphy (7 years) 134-117 (534)
Ohio, Saul Phillips (5 years) 73-65 (539)
CMU, Keno Davis (7 years) 117-105 (527)
BGSU, Mike Huger (5 years) 64-61 (512)
Miami, Jack Owens (2 years) 30-31 (491)
Akron, John Groce (2 years) 24-25 (489)
NIU, Mark Montgomery (8 years) 100-142 (413)

So, Saul Phillips, with all of his bad luck, is still in top half of conference with winning percentage compared with all others in conference.
Oh, and by the way, for all you John Groce lovers, let's compare their first four years records at Ohio in MAC Games.
Groce 34-30
Phillips 31-31
Ever wonder what Phillips would look like with GOOD LUCK.
One final issue and then I'll get off here and let you haters go to work.
Are you sure you really want to start over?
60 % of our scoring this year is coming from 2 sophomores and 2 freshman.
Has any one ask Jason Carter what he'll do if there is a coaching change? Or don't you care, get rid of him and start over? How about Ben? How about Jay?
OH, and while we are on it, What about Dartis, any chance he could Grad Transfer if we change coaches. Someone might want to ask question. That is, unless you really want to start over. And then ask yourself how long it's going to take to get back to where we are in building a program with high character student athletes. Oh, and just one last issue. What do you think will happen with our recruits coming in? We have a great class coming in, you think we'll be able to keep them?
My vote, give coach one more year. Let's see that he can do with top 3 scorers from this year coming back and adding Dartis. It's about his time for some good luck, hope it's not at another school,.


Wow! You're making way too much sense for this crowd. They want their cake and they want to eat it,too. They also want clowns.

Last Edited: 2/26/2019 3:32:31 PM by giacomo

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postlikeTrent
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 4:50:24 PM 
Two guys in their 40s who will be moving up soon...
Lipscomb Casey Alexander
Murray St Matt McMahon

Last Edited: 2/26/2019 4:51:37 PM by postlikeTrent

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bobcat 2000
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 5:59:19 PM 
shaka smart and keith dambrot are a copule of names worth considering.dambrot recruited fairly good at akron. he even brought in a couple of espn top 100 recruits to akron. thad matta would anither good one
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BobcatBeReal
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 6:15:56 PM 
Look, I know Iím not going to change the minds of those of you that went to the school of ďfire the coachĒ if it isnít working. I just want to give the readers the other side. I come from a different school, one that believes that you build a program by having quality people and build a program with high character players, solving problems as needed as you maintain continuity, something we havenít had in years.
What I like about our program now is,
- We have a terrific coach that not only is a great coach but also an outstanding person. He wants to be at Ohio and build a program. He has never seen Ohio as a stepping-stone to a bigger school.
- He has recruited high character players, like James Gallon that will leave our program and become a physician and Gavin Block that will be a college coach in the very near future. You knock his recruiting but Jason Carter was not just another player lost last year, he was a member of the all-freshman team the year before. He is another high character player that is also an honor student. We were supposed to have had Ben last year. He is freshman this year averaging at double-digit points. Also, an honor student. And then there is TK, who last year was also, ALL-MAC freshman selection and also made honor role. Excuse me, but if you have two all freshman selections in two years out of two, your not losing the recruiting battle. The battle weíve lost is the injury battle. If you have had the opportunity to communicate with our players, you would understand that these are high character student athletes that will leave Ohio and become successful citizens. These are the type of players that eventually lead you to a championship. And I repeat, IF COACH PHILLIPS IS HERE, we will have two freshman and two sophomores coming back that are our most productive players this year. If he doesnít, not sure what we have coming back. Iím still of the believe that you build programs with characterÖÖ.High character coaches that are going to do it the right way, and high character players that you can be proud of that they represent our university. His recruiting misses have come when he was under the gun, like when we lost Jaaron.
- He and his family have been a great fit in the Athens community, making valuable contributions. Again, this speaks to character and someone that cares about the community they are a part.
If our best four players were seniors, Iíd be all about looking at a change but they arenít. Our best five players are one thatís not playing this year, two sophomores and two freshmen. Iíd ride this out another year.
I know that some of you just want to win, you donít care how it gets done. Some of you probably donít care if we start doing what Buffalo is doing. I understand, I just donít want to go there. Some of you want a coach to come in and use JUCO character players to get the job done. Iíve seen that picture, not pretty, not for me.
Iím more about wanting a quality program with quality players.
Thanks for listening to me. Iím done, not going to respond any further. And by the way, YES, I know Iím fighting an uphill battle but I hate to see us lose a really good man and great coach.

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 7:07:10 PM 
BobcatBeReal wrote:
Look, I know Iím not going to change the minds of those of you that went to the school of ďfire the coachĒ if it isnít working. I just want to give the readers the other side. I come from a different school, one that believes that you build a program by having quality people and build a program with high character players, solving problems as needed as you maintain continuity, something we havenít had in years.
What I like about our program now is,
- We have a terrific coach that not only is a great coach but also an outstanding person. He wants to be at Ohio and build a program. He has never seen Ohio as a stepping-stone to a bigger school.
- He has recruited high character players, like James Gallon that will leave our program and become a physician and Gavin Block that will be a college coach in the very near future. You knock his recruiting but Jason Carter was not just another player lost last year, he was a member of the all-freshman team the year before. He is another high character player that is also an honor student. We were supposed to have had Ben last year. He is freshman this year averaging at double-digit points. Also, an honor student. And then there is TK, who last year was also, ALL-MAC freshman selection and also made honor role. Excuse me, but if you have two all freshman selections in two years out of two, your not losing the recruiting battle. The battle weíve lost is the injury battle. If you have had the opportunity to communicate with our players, you would understand that these are high character student athletes that will leave Ohio and become successful citizens. These are the type of players that eventually lead you to a championship. And I repeat, IF COACH PHILLIPS IS HERE, we will have two freshman and two sophomores coming back that are our most productive players this year. If he doesnít, not sure what we have coming back. Iím still of the believe that you build programs with characterÖÖ.High character coaches that are going to do it the right way, and high character players that you can be proud of that they represent our university. His recruiting misses have come when he was under the gun, like when we lost Jaaron.
- He and his family have been a great fit in the Athens community, making valuable contributions. Again, this speaks to character and someone that cares about the community they are a part.
If our best four players were seniors, Iíd be all about looking at a change but they arenít. Our best five players are one thatís not playing this year, two sophomores and two freshmen. Iíd ride this out another year.
I know that some of you just want to win, you donít care how it gets done. Some of you probably donít care if we start doing what Buffalo is doing. I understand, I just donít want to go there. Some of you want a coach to come in and use JUCO character players to get the job done. Iíve seen that picture, not pretty, not for me.
Iím more about wanting a quality program with quality players.
Thanks for listening to me. Iím done, not going to respond any further. And by the way, YES, I know Iím fighting an uphill battle but I hate to see us lose a really good man and great coach.



The problem is you're just reiterating the things everyone already knows.

-Does Saul recruit high character guys who are pretty well schooled in the game of basketball? Yes.

-Is the Phillips family good for the Athens community? Unquestionably, yes.

-Is Saul Phillips a good person who genuinely cares about his players and family and would do anything for them? Again, yes.

-Have they attracted solid recruits who play a critical role on the team? Yes. (Laster, Dartis, Carter, Ryan Taylor, Doug Taylor, Carter, Block, BVP, Jimmy G, TK, Mickle, Simmons, Kaminski is a solid group of guys).

-Have they dealt with transfers? Yes, but every school does. Have you seen the yearly transfer list? (Ryan Taylor, Rodney Culver and Zach Butler probably being the biggest names)

-Has the regime had to deal with injuries to their top players the last few years? Of course, yes. (Carter, BVP, Dartis, Campbell to go along with lingering injuries Gollon, Laster and Block suffered).

BUT...given all of that...the results just aren't quantifiable enough.

---------------

I've been a Saul guy since Day One and I fought the losing battle last year saying the injuries did us in. But you can't get past the glaring issues with this team this year.

-Free throw shooting (and shooting in general) is downright awful. No other way to sugar coat it. I've seen high school teams shoot better than this.

-Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers.

-Offensively they look completely lost half the time. Defensively they give up too many big runs, so when the offense is cold as ice you see Ohio get behind in huge deficits. Ohio simply doesn't have the game changer, firepower or bread/butter gameplan to get baskets when they absolutely need them. Carter shows flashes of it when he takes over and can get the ball on the block, but it's not a 100% certainty we can get it there.

-While losing Jordan Dartis is MAJORLY important to the functions of this team's offensive plans (spreads the floor, makes shots, opens up lane for DT, Carter and TK), it's not so much that Ohio would automatically be in Top Tier of the MAC this season. The other issues outweigh his importance. I hope he comes back next year because he deserves it and boy will Ohio need him. He's one of the best shooters in Ohio history for a reason.

-The air is completely sucked out of the Convo. Not withstanding the BG game which I've read was a pretty great crowd, the games have been...boring?

-$$$$$$ I don't know what the bottom line looks like, but if attendance and donations are down as much as people think, then financially Ohio won't be able to afford another "WHAT IF" season from Saul. So what, they extend him one more year to make it go right (Jordy back, everyone presumably healthy and year of experience under their belt). Does that really bode well for the FUTURE of the program? Probably not.



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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 7:08:49 PM 
Very sound logic on your end. I will say this to counteract and why I pinned a lot of blame on the dept for this one: revenues are down big time from a few years ago and not many athletic administrators like to look in the mirror as to who is to blame.

Which is why I said if this is in the hands of the bean counters he is gone effective end of season. Not only that, Schaus not offering any sort of confidence vote has been heard loud and clear by his silence on the issue on the face of this financial mess.
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GroverBall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/26/2019 7:15:48 PM 
BobcatBeReal, please don't disappear. This board desperately needs your voice.
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