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Topic:  RE: Future Coach

Topic:  RE: Future Coach
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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Member Since: 9/10/2013
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/19/2019 10:36:44 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
shabamon wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love giving it to Arkley on Twitter right now. Love not liking the sass being delivered. Arkley doing everything he can to defend.. refuses to talk realities.


I agree with Love all the way until he suggested we give Rick Pitino a call.


I agree on Pitno


You are being sarcastic, right?


No, I agree with Shabammon on Pitno, thought that was pretty clear since I was replying to his post. But I guess I needed an age disclaimer on my post.


Well, I guess I gave you too much credit. I didn't think you would really want to hire that sleezeball.


Wow!!!! How the hell do you get out of that that I would want Pitno. Letís walk through this, itís really not tough.

BLove going at it with Arkley on Twitter, in this BLove mentions Pitino. Shabmon states he was with BLove up until he mentioned Pitino. I agreed with Shabmon that Pitino was a no go to us. However, that simple story line is too hard for you to handle since Iíve had to explain this now 3 times.


Sorry, I did skim it too quickly. When I read it more carefully, I see what you are saying and agree. Been trying to read all the crap on here, and yes, my reading comprehension suffered! I apologize.


I think all our eyes were shot from reading the scoreboard tonight.....
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/19/2019 10:40:36 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
shabamon wrote:
I take pride in knowing we are one of like 15 schools in the country to never have been hit with a major NCAA violation. I hope we can keep that going


+1


Ok, so, I agree with Shabamon and you question me, while agring with him. Damn dimentia sets in quick.


It's not dementia. It's concentration. Reading all the crapola on here tonight makes it hard to keep my mind focused. I'll apologize again that I did misread the earlier post. I guess my nerves are a little on edge tonight, because I really do feel sorry for Saul and I get so tired reading some of drivel on here where some just seem to revel in the team's misery.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 10,305

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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/19/2019 10:42:36 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
shabamon wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love giving it to Arkley on Twitter right now. Love not liking the sass being delivered. Arkley doing everything he can to defend.. refuses to talk realities.


I agree with Love all the way until he suggested we give Rick Pitino a call.


I agree on Pitno


You are being sarcastic, right?


No, I agree with Shabammon on Pitno, thought that was pretty clear since I was replying to his post. But I guess I needed an age disclaimer on my post.


Well, I guess I gave you too much credit. I didn't think you would really want to hire that sleezeball.


Wow!!!! How the hell do you get out of that that I would want Pitno. Letís walk through this, itís really not tough.

BLove going at it with Arkley on Twitter, in this BLove mentions Pitino. Shabmon states he was with BLove up until he mentioned Pitino. I agreed with Shabmon that Pitino was a no go to us. However, that simple story line is too hard for you to handle since Iíve had to explain this now 3 times.


Sorry, I did skim it too quickly. When I read it more carefully, I see what you are saying and agree. Been trying to read all the crap on here, and yes, my reading comprehension suffered! I apologize.


I think all our eyes were shot from reading the scoreboard tonight.....


I accept that alibi. ;-) I appreciate you mentioning that factor.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Donuts
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Member Since: 9/22/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/19/2019 11:52:04 PM 
Brian Smith wrote:
Donuts' career as one of those insult clowns in a dunking booth at the state fair must be incredibly lucrative.


Someone had to point out the worst ideas on here. It's like people don't even think.
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Flomo-genized
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 7:57:55 AM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

Bruiser Flint: Indiana-A name that no one would look at, but was the head coach at Drexel for 16 years. With what I would argue was a bad break era at Drexel, especially after many parts of his teams transferred in his late years there, at least he can identify talent and recruit it. With his connections out east, I feel like this is a guy who could come in and make some solid noise with the resources here. Question I have here is would we want to deal with another coach who dealt with bad breaks again or not? Again, a guy I like that many others would not.


If you're going to poach someone from the IU staff, Tom Ostrom is the target, not Flint. Ostrom's pedigree is terrific. His recruiting is top notch (he was lead recruiter for Romeo Langford, Trayce Jackson-Davis, and Jerome Hunter). He came close to landing the UD job when Archie left, so he might be ready to jump for a chance at a top seat job, especially after the dumpster fire that is IU's 2019.

Pedon would be a fine P5 assistant choice, but Ostrom is the better target in my mind.

Last Edited: 2/20/2019 8:08:48 AM by Flomo-genized

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Flomo-genized
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 8:14:57 AM 
Two more thoughts. First, while Schaus's desire to land experienced head coaches is admirable, ultimately it limits the pool of qualified candidates to much too small a field. It's going to be a pretty slim group of guys who are willing to leave another successful stint at a D-1 job to come here. Anyone great would already have been snatched up by a bigger fish, so we're inherently settling for a flawed candidate or someone without much ambition.

Second, we need to develop a consistent identity. Part of the problem the last 7 years is that we've bounced between very different coaching styles with each hire, from Groce to Christian to Phillips. That requires you to largely start from scratch recruiting wise each time, while you wait to get guys in who fit the new system.

The elite mid-majors (Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga), have stuck to a single system and always hired from within. Even in the MAC, Kent State's 2002 Elite Eight team and Buffalo this year and last had former assistants at the helm (Stan Heath and Oats) after the initial successful hires had moved on (Gary Waters and Hurley).

Schaus's mistake, in my mind, has been to become so overly enamored with prior HC experience that he has overlooked any semblance of program continuity. Moving forward we need to pick a style, stick to it, and develop second-chair guys ready to move up when the time comes.

Last Edited: 2/20/2019 8:47:11 AM by Flomo-genized

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DJCooperBurnerAccount
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 9:49:30 AM 
At what point does Dustin Ford stop living in Groce's shadow and come home?

Sorry, hOUme.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 9:53:01 AM 
Flomo-genized wrote:
Two more thoughts. First, while Schaus's desire to land experienced head coaches is admirable, ultimately it limits the pool of qualified candidates to much too small a field. It's going to be a pretty slim group of guys who are willing to leave another successful stint at a D-1 job to come here. Anyone great would already have been snatched up by a bigger fish, so we're inherently settling for a flawed candidate or someone without much ambition.

Second, we need to develop a consistent identity. Part of the problem the last 7 years is that we've bounced between very different coaching styles with each hire, from Groce to Christian to Phillips. That requires you to largely start from scratch recruiting wise each time, while you wait to get guys in who fit the new system.

The elite mid-majors (Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga), have stuck to a single system and always hired from within. Even in the MAC, Kent State's 2002 Elite Eight team and Buffalo this year and last had former assistants at the helm (Stan Heath and Oats) after the initial successful hires had moved on (Gary Waters and Hurley).

Schaus's mistake, in my mind, has been to become so overly enamored with prior HC experience that he has overlooked any semblance of program continuity. Moving forward we need to pick a style, stick to it, and develop second-chair guys ready to move up when the time comes.


Flomo brings the sanity back to the board.

With this line of thinking, I'm wondering if the right choice from the get-go was Dustin Ford. The players wanted him, but seemingly nobody else did.



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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 10:11:16 AM 
What is there in Dustin Ford's resume that you find attractive?

If we're going to aim low, I'd much prefer Kevin Kuwik.

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DJCooperBurnerAccount
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 10:18:05 AM 
SBH wrote:
What is there in Dustin Ford's resume that you find attractive?

If we're going to aim low, I'd much prefer Kevin Kuwik.



My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek when I typed that..
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 10:42:32 AM 
There's always talk, as there is on the board right now, of who the players want. I am very leery of choosing coaches who the players want (the term "Player's Coach" is more than a little self serving.) When Coach Nee left after the 1985-86 season, our AD said he thought he would face an uprising if he didn't appoint assistant Billy Hahn as head coach. It didn't take very long until we had a near mutiny among the players, for the exact opposite reason, as his tenure was unsuccessful (to be charitable.) Some Ball State players commented that after a few weeks of practice with Coach Rick Majerus if they had their way, he would have been fired. However, the team with supposed "little talent" went on to a 29-3 record the very next season!

Just as winning solves a lot of problems, losing creates many problems. One only need look at the tone of the board now compared to 7 years ago. Lots of frustration from those still here, while many posters have disappeared into the mists of Bobcat Attack History. Select the right coach, not necessarily who the players or fans want, but the right coach for the situation we are in and we can avoid all of the madness we have been subjected to for way too long!

Last Edited: 2/20/2019 11:01:42 AM by cbus cat fan

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Flomo-genized
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 11:14:33 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:

With this line of thinking, I'm wondering if the right choice from the get-go was Dustin Ford. The players wanted him, but seemingly nobody else did.


In hindsight, I'm not sure we could be in much worse shape today had we gone with Dustin in 2012. That having been said, I'm still not convinced he was ready.

Instead, the alternative history I prefer to live in is one where we convinced Holtmann to stay as coach-in-waiting rather than jump to Gardner Webb. When Groce gets the call in 2012, Holtmann replaces him without missing a beat, with Dustin promoted to associate HC. They convince Lavert and Bradds to stay the course, and we continue to build on the 2012 run in the subsequent years. By 2015 or 16, Holtmann gets the call for a P5 job, and Dustin gets the HC job.
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Flomo-genized
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 11:20:37 AM 
One last thought...if we do go for prior HC experience, along the lines of a Solich hire, I don't hate the idea of Matta. The UGA job was his if he wanted it, before they settled on Crean, so he's still well regarded in the industry. His last couple years at OSU not withstanding, he knows how to identify and recruit talent, and has in-roads across the state.

If geography does make a big difference to him, we could certainly do a lot worse. He also knows how to build a coaching tree, so per my comment above, he could have a good 5-10 year run while grooming our subsequent HC.

Last Edited: 2/20/2019 11:21:30 AM by Flomo-genized

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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 11:20:57 AM 
I think it was discussed before but did Holtmann get a call/interview after Groce left? What could have been.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 12:26:09 PM 
Flomo-genized wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:

With this line of thinking, I'm wondering if the right choice from the get-go was Dustin Ford. The players wanted him, but seemingly nobody else did.


In hindsight, I'm not sure we could be in much worse shape today had we gone with Dustin in 2012. That having been said, I'm still not convinced he was ready.

Instead, the alternative history I prefer to live in is one where we convinced Holtmann to stay as coach-in-waiting rather than jump to Gardner Webb. When Groce gets the call in 2012, Holtmann replaces him without missing a beat, with Dustin promoted to associate HC. They convince Lavert and Bradds to stay the course, and we continue to build on the 2012 run in the subsequent years. By 2015 or 16, Holtmann gets the call for a P5 job, and Dustin gets the HC job.


Holtmann's career definitely took an interesting path. People tend to think he was the follow up to Brad Stevens, but he didn't get the head job until Brandon Miller took a leave of absence right before the season started in 2014. He was on Miller's staff for the previous season.

But I think you may be right. Everyone saw the trajectory Groce was on. Had we convinced Holtmann to stick around, he could have kept the program at a high level before Butler or Ohio State presumably comes calling.



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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 12:28:29 PM 
In the words of the Flamingos, Schaus only had eyes for Christian after Groce departed. Just my opinion, but it seemed like near obsession to get the man to Athens and back in the MAC. Ultimately, I think that's why we are in the situation we are in today. It will always be a favorite argument, but that was a very very bad hire in my opinion.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 12:47:32 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love giving it to Arkley on Twitter right now. Love not liking the sass being delivered. Arkley doing everything he can to defend.. refuses to talk realities.


I chuckle with Arkley because he rarely just replies to tweets, but instead has to quote them all the time.


SBH wrote:
I used to have a digital subscription to the Mess just to read Arkley. No more. He's done a horrible job on this beat.


I get it. In a recent purge of my Twitter following list, he didn't make the cut this time.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 1:54:44 PM 
Flomo-genized wrote:
Two more thoughts. First, while Schaus's desire to land experienced head coaches is admirable, ultimately it limits the pool of qualified candidates to much too small a field. It's going to be a pretty slim group of guys who are willing to leave another successful stint at a D-1 job to come here. Anyone great would already have been snatched up by a bigger fish, so we're inherently settling for a flawed candidate or someone without much ambition.

Second, we need to develop a consistent identity. Part of the problem the last 7 years is that we've bounced between very different coaching styles with each hire, from Groce to Christian to Phillips. That requires you to largely start from scratch recruiting wise each time, while you wait to get guys in who fit the new system.

The elite mid-majors (Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga), have stuck to a single system and always hired from within. Even in the MAC, Kent State's 2002 Elite Eight team and Buffalo this year and last had former assistants at the helm (Stan Heath and Oats) after the initial successful hires had moved on (Gary Waters and Hurley).

Schaus's mistake, in my mind, has been to become so overly enamored with prior HC experience that he has overlooked any semblance of program continuity. Moving forward we need to pick a style, stick to it, and develop second-chair guys ready to move up when the time comes.


+1

I think we're gonna get along A-OK on a few topics here.

As to your suggestion from IU, very solid choice indeed. I didn't do as much digging on their staff as I should have, especially with a coaching tree that Archie comes off of.
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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 2:27:02 PM 
I think when the new coach is named it will be someone new to most of us. This is a good job and there will be lots of interest.
It is common to think that someone with previous ties to Ohio will be chosen but that almost never happens (Larry).
Don't worry about Saul his agent will find him a nice place to land.
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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 2:30:01 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love giving it to Arkley on Twitter right now. Love not liking the sass being delivered. Arkley doing everything he can to defend.. refuses to talk realities.


I chuckle with Arkley because he rarely just replies to tweets, but instead has to quote them all the time.


SBH wrote:
I used to have a digital subscription to the Mess just to read Arkley. No more. He's done a horrible job on this beat.


I get it. In a recent purge of my Twitter following list, he didn't make the cut this time.


He can be a little grating more often than not, but there are times where without him, there would be next to nothing on social media giving consistent coverage/updates for Ohio games (especially basketball and football).


Ohio-The State University

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/20/2019 3:27:57 PM 
OUcats82 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love giving it to Arkley on Twitter right now. Love not liking the sass being delivered. Arkley doing everything he can to defend.. refuses to talk realities.


I chuckle with Arkley because he rarely just replies to tweets, but instead has to quote them all the time.


SBH wrote:
I used to have a digital subscription to the Mess just to read Arkley. No more. He's done a horrible job on this beat.


I get it. In a recent purge of my Twitter following list, he didn't make the cut this time.


He can be a little grating more often than not, but there are times where without him, there would be next to nothing on social media giving consistent coverage/updates for Ohio games (especially basketball and football).


It's not that I find him grating at all. It's that I get as much, or more, from the guys doing work at The Post, and simply by coming here a few times (or more) a week. And I've recently found it useful to heavily streamline the social media feeds to follows that are either really important/useful, or that bring fun/joy to daily life. Not that I dislike him, but I like Pete Nakos' work more, and there's the pesky lack of addressing the coaching situation even a little bit (that I've seen) that helped make my decision. Probably more info than you or anyone here wanted.
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The Better Ohio Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/24/2019 3:23:30 PM 
Letís go for Kevin Ollie.
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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/24/2019 5:48:44 PM 
It will probably be a guy like this... Jerrod Calhoun, who YSU hired last season. The Youngstown State program was in the cellar of the Horizon league.
He was head coach at Fairmount State, WV and won 75% of his games over 4 years. Played at Cleve State under Rollie. Was a GA at Cincinnati and WVU under Huggins. Quotes Billy Hahn frequently.
In season two at YSU- second half of this season he is winning most of his games.
This the the kind of guy we will get.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/24/2019 6:05:19 PM 
Makes $250,000 plus incentives and will be on the very short list for Wake Forest (and a number of other places) if they let Manning go, but Wes Miller at UNC-Greensboro would be great - though a "yes" from him would be a challenge.

Last Edited: 2/24/2019 6:07:14 PM by cc-cat

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/24/2019 10:39:29 PM 
Flomo-genized wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:

With this line of thinking, I'm wondering if the right choice from the get-go was Dustin Ford. The players wanted him, but seemingly nobody else did.


In hindsight, I'm not sure we could be in much worse shape today had we gone with Dustin in 2012. That having been said, I'm still not convinced he was ready.

Instead, the alternative history I prefer to live in is one where we convinced Holtmann to stay as coach-in-waiting rather than jump to Gardner Webb. When Groce gets the call in 2012, Holtmann replaces him without missing a beat, with Dustin promoted to associate HC. They convince Lavert and Bradds to stay the course, and we continue to build on the 2012 run in the subsequent years. By 2015 or 16, Holtmann gets the call for a P5 job, and Dustin gets the HC job.




Exactly, sir.
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