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Topic:  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......

Topic:  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 8:12:15 AM 
Our local PD annually hosts a SWAT Challenge. We have seen teams come in from as far as Florida.

Funds raised finance area first responder charities such as scholarships for children of officers/firefighters killed in the line of duty or the Christmas Shop With a Cop gift program for kids who might not be getting much for the holidays.

I volunteer as a range safety officer. I have not inspected every weapon, but, I know I have never seen an AK. The competition combines a military obstacle course with 3-gun events for pistol, shotgun and rifle. There has never been an automatic weapon course of fire, nor have I ever seen an automatic/machine gun come through the rifle zero range I have run.

The men and women on these teams are great people, moms and dads themselves. A suggestion, instead of presenting them and their presence as something wrong, try approaching them, introduce yourself and your kids. Perhaps your child might come away with an informed perspective. This is the new normal. Not the normal I grew up with, but, today's normal.


"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 8:31:15 AM 
Of course there has never been an AK-47 because we are not a Banana Republic.
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Andrew Ruck
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Location: Columbus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 10:14:22 AM 
ou1982 wrote:
I find your post to be offensive because you bullied and insulted people with this post. Had you put the "i didn't see this at the other five gates, so the logic escapes me," your first post would have been sufficient. I am a firm believer in the second amendment, but I would have gladly agreed with this appearing to be overkill. seems like overkill, but you politicized this whole thing with such inflammatory rhetoric.

why couldn't you have at least waited for someone to say it was for a deterrence before getting on your high horse.

this is why it is difficult to have civil discuss anymore. i agree with you, but you really ticked me off with your rhetoric. i am neither uneducated nor a gun nut.


You must not have been introduced to the LOVE before. He'll be your best friend when you agree with him and a total dick the second you show any indication you may not completely agree with him.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 10:32:55 AM 
We're adopting a super broad definition of "bullying and insulting" in this thread, huh? A Venn diagram of people who call for 'civil discourse' and take to their fainting couches at the slightest insult is basically a single circle.

This thread's pretty hilarious, honestly. Basically nobody disagrees with Love's initial post -- they're just super angry because he used the phrase "gun nuts" and are feeling criticized on behalf of police officers.

Maybe just maybe the reason it's so hard to have a civil discourse is that we're far too sensitive? I mean, the same people here freaking out about Love's choice of language are almost certain to be concerned about "PC Culture" getting out of hand, right? Maybe a glance in the mirror from time to time would do the world some good.

Instead everybody is just too darn upset to even discuss the issue at hand, even though everybody seems to agree on it.







Last Edited: 9/4/2018 10:41:57 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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L.C.
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Location: United States
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 11:57:34 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...
Instead everybody is just too darn upset to even discuss the issue at hand, even though everybody seems to agree on it.

There has been much discussion, with some agreement, and some disagreement, but mostly with educational comments. Things I learned in this thread:
1. They are at every game, not just this game. This is not new.
2. The athletic department has nothing to do with this, and thus any anger at the athletic department over this is misplaced
3. This is the new normal, like it or not, so venting against it, at least on this forum, will be no more productive than tilting at windmills


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 12:01:57 PM 
The original poster wanted nothing to do with civility and proceeded to make statements that were way off base and in no way reflects logical thought.

He implied that if you saw no issue with the presence of the rifle, you were a right wing, gun touting nut job.

How hard would it have been to say the following:

"I was leaving Peden and noticed an officer carrying a semi-automatic firearm. Does anyone know what the deal is with that? Seems like overkill and had to have an interesting conversation with my child."

Instead he made false equivalencies and ruined his argument. I hope he follows through with his threat to never come back - that would make me feel more safe.

Last Edited: 9/4/2018 12:03:23 PM by WishIWasAtLuckys

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Day Tripper
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 12:05:25 PM 
WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
This post is full of so much stupid it really makes you want to laugh, ... or cry.

Really. An AK47? Weíre the OUPD also driving around flashing it from the back of a shoddy S-10 ready to commit holy war?

The OUPD, through a grant with the US Department of Homeland Security, have trained officers who act as the final line of defense between a terrorist situation and the lives of those who attend tevents they are responsible to protect. Yes, some of the officers carry high caliber rifles.

Do you not take your children places. I hope you donít plan on taking them to: any concert, any pro sporting event, large fair or festival, any NCAA sporting event, the Boston Marathon, Times Square for NYE or any airport in this country..

What a derogatory post that insults so many people. Insulting to the police who are simply trained and doing their job. Insulting to anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment, regardless of their stance of the militarization of local police and the list goes on.

They stand at that entrance every single game. Just noticed it?

I hope you donít come back to a game. If something so idiotic that is not controlled at the local level is what stops you from coming: see ya.

Perhaps this would have been a good time to speak with your child about 9/11 or how little kids their age in England were killed while going to an Ariana Grande concert. Itís not like these precautions donít stem from reality.

I am actually in agreement that it is over the top but I can at least see perspective of why itís there and. Could ask reasonable questions without posting the most smug post to ever bless this forum.


I did not attend the game nor witness the officer with the weapon. Do you you informed gentlemen know what a AK47 looks like or do you lump all machine guns as AK47s? I don't think I have seen any police department in this country use AKs as a SWAT weapon. I could be wrong but they are relatively inexpensive but not as versatile as a AR15, M16 platform that can be converted to different calibers using the same lower.
Without having seen it, I would have to take your word on it.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 12:15:52 PM 
Day Tripper wrote:
WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
This post is full of so much stupid it really makes you want to laugh, ... or cry.

Really. An AK47? Weíre the OUPD also driving around flashing it from the back of a shoddy S-10 ready to commit holy war?

The OUPD, through a grant with the US Department of Homeland Security, have trained officers who act as the final line of defense between a terrorist situation and the lives of those who attend tevents they are responsible to protect. Yes, some of the officers carry high caliber rifles.

Do you not take your children places. I hope you donít plan on taking them to: any concert, any pro sporting event, large fair or festival, any NCAA sporting event, the Boston Marathon, Times Square for NYE or any airport in this country..

What a derogatory post that insults so many people. Insulting to the police who are simply trained and doing their job. Insulting to anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment, regardless of their stance of the militarization of local police and the list goes on.

They stand at that entrance every single game. Just noticed it?

I hope you donít come back to a game. If something so idiotic that is not controlled at the local level is what stops you from coming: see ya.

Perhaps this would have been a good time to speak with your child about 9/11 or how little kids their age in England were killed while going to an Ariana Grande concert. Itís not like these precautions donít stem from reality.

I am actually in agreement that it is over the top but I can at least see perspective of why itís there and. Could ask reasonable questions without posting the most smug post to ever bless this forum.


I did not attend the game nor witness the officer with the weapon. Do you you informed gentlemen know what a AK47 looks like or do you lump all machine guns as AK47s? I don't think I have seen any police department in this country use AKs as a SWAT weapon. I could be wrong but they are relatively inexpensive but not as versatile as a AR15, M16 platform that can be converted to different calibers using the same lower.
Without having seen it, I would have to take your word on it.


Exactly! Nothing like people looking like they know what they are talking about while being wrong. OUPD carried the M4-LE that is standard for police departments around the country. No one is using an AK
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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 12:17:25 PM 
Day Tripper wrote:
WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
This post is full of so much stupid it really makes you want to laugh, ... or cry.

Really. An AK47? Weíre the OUPD also driving around flashing it from the back of a shoddy S-10 ready to commit holy war?

The OUPD, through a grant with the US Department of Homeland Security, have trained officers who act as the final line of defense between a terrorist situation and the lives of those who attend tevents they are responsible to protect. Yes, some of the officers carry high caliber rifles.

Do you not take your children places. I hope you donít plan on taking them to: any concert, any pro sporting event, large fair or festival, any NCAA sporting event, the Boston Marathon, Times Square for NYE or any airport in this country..

What a derogatory post that insults so many people. Insulting to the police who are simply trained and doing their job. Insulting to anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment, regardless of their stance of the militarization of local police and the list goes on.

They stand at that entrance every single game. Just noticed it?

I hope you donít come back to a game. If something so idiotic that is not controlled at the local level is what stops you from coming: see ya.

Perhaps this would have been a good time to speak with your child about 9/11 or how little kids their age in England were killed while going to an Ariana Grande concert. Itís not like these precautions donít stem from reality.

I am actually in agreement that it is over the top but I can at least see perspective of why itís there and. Could ask reasonable questions without posting the most smug post to ever bless this forum.


I did not attend the game nor witness the officer with the weapon. Do you you informed gentlemen know what a AK47 looks like or do you lump all machine guns as AK47s? I don't think I have seen any police department in this country use AKs as a SWAT weapon. I could be wrong but they are relatively inexpensive but not as versatile as a AR15, M16 platform that can be converted to different calibers using the same lower.
Without having seen it, I would have to take your word on it.


AK-47 is what someone who has no clue about what they are talking about says they saw.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 12:28:38 PM 
WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
The original poster wanted nothing to do with civility and proceeded to make statements that were way off base and in no way reflects logical thought.

He implied that if you saw no issue with the presence of the rifle, you were a right wing, gun touting nut job.

How hard would it have been to say the following:

"I was leaving Peden and noticed an officer carrying a semi-automatic firearm. Does anyone know what the deal is with that? Seems like overkill and had to have an interesting conversation with my child."

Instead he made false equivalencies and ruined his argument. I hope he follows through with his threat to never come back - that would make me feel more safe.


Ah, yes. Implying that somebody who disagrees with you is dangerous and calling for civil discourse in the same post. How rational and thoughtful of you. Way to talk about the importance of the high road from the low road, my man.

Last Edited: 9/4/2018 12:34:36 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 12:33:41 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...
Instead everybody is just too darn upset to even discuss the issue at hand, even though everybody seems to agree on it.

There has been much discussion, with some agreement, and some disagreement, but mostly with educational comments. Things I learned in this thread:
1. They are at every game, not just this game. This is not new.
2. The athletic department has nothing to do with this, and thus any anger at the athletic department over this is misplaced
3. This is the new normal, like it or not, so venting against it, at least on this forum, will be no more productive than tilting at windmills



I take issue with point three. If suspect alumni of Ohio University have the ability to impact policy decisions in Athens, provided they make the transition from venting on this forum to making sure their spending in Athens and donations to OU reflect their feelings.

Police militarization has reached a ridiculous point in this country. If voicing that's 'tilting at windmills', that's a serious problem. LOVE's entire point is to question whether or not this has to be the 'new normal.' I tend to agree with him that it doesn't and think it's far from a foregone conclusion that this is a new normal that has to be accepted.



Last Edited: 9/4/2018 12:36:44 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 12:54:51 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...
Instead everybody is just too darn upset to even discuss the issue at hand, even though everybody seems to agree on it.

There has been much discussion, with some agreement, and some disagreement, but mostly with educational comments. Things I learned in this thread:
1. They are at every game, not just this game. This is not new.
2. The athletic department has nothing to do with this, and thus any anger at the athletic department over this is misplaced
3. This is the new normal, like it or not, so venting against it, at least on this forum, will be no more productive than tilting at windmills



I take issue with point three. If suspect alumni of Ohio University have the ability to impact policy decisions in Athens, provided they make the transition from venting on this forum to making sure their spending in Athens and donations to OU reflect their feelings.

Police militarization has reached a ridiculous point in this country. If voicing that's 'tilting at windmills', that's a serious problem. LOVE's entire point is to question whether or not this has to be the 'new normal.' I tend to agree with him that it doesn't and think it's far from a foregone conclusion that this is a new normal that has to be accepted.





This decision is so far above the pay grade of Ohio University. Do you not notice the incredible amount of security infrastructure around? It is all a funding scheme - and OU is just chekcing off the boxes.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 1:01:46 PM 
Day Tripper wrote:

I did not attend the game nor witness the officer with the weapon. Do you you informed gentlemen know what a AK47 looks like or do you lump all machine guns as AK47s? I don't think I have seen any police department in this country use AKs as a SWAT weapon. I could be wrong but they are relatively inexpensive but not as versatile as a AR15, M16 platform that can be converted to different calibers using the same lower.
Without having seen it, I would have to take your word on it.


I fall into the firearm enthusiast category.
Been target shooting since I was around 4.
I also have a very good friend who is a firearms instructor at a New Jersey Police Academy.

He said that the police in this part of north Jersey tend to use the AR platform,with a collapsible/adjustable stock and short barrel.

As far as hand guns,there is a pretty even split between Glock and Sig Sauer.
For the past few years most police departments have used 40 cal.
Now some departments are considering going back to the 9mm.
Every police department around here uses hollow points.

Last Edited: 9/4/2018 1:04:24 PM by rpbobcat

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 1:31:06 PM 
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.

Last Edited: 9/4/2018 1:35:54 PM by cc-cat

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 1:51:14 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.


Great information.

Thanks


"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 1:55:26 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.


Yelp.

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Day Tripper
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 1:59:47 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.


Why do nearly all mass shootings take place in gun free zones? No opposition. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. You would have 5 to 15 minutes before police arrive and probably 30 minutes or more before they decide to do any thing after they assess the situation if they do any thing at all initially.
How many attacks do you see against police stations or armed military camps?
These attackers might be crazy but they are not stupid. They want to shoot where there is the least resistance. A show of force or a police presence helps deter crime.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 2:08:20 PM 
Day Tripper wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.


Why do nearly all mass shootings take place in gun free zones? No opposition. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. You would have 5 to 15 minutes before police arrive and probably 30 minutes or more before they decide to do any thing after they assess the situation if they do any thing at all initially.
How many attacks do you see against police stations or armed military camps?
These attackers might be crazy but they are not stupid. They want to shoot where there is the least resistance. A show of force or a police presence helps deter crime.


How do you define "mass shooting"? And how do you define a "gun free zone"?

There was a mass shooting at Fort Hood and another at the Washington Navy Yard. So, that's two attacks on armed military bases. There was an armed guards at Stoneman Douglas, Columbine, the Mandalay Bay in Vegas, Virginia Tech, and the Pulse Nightclub. And those are just off the top of my head.

I'm not sure this is as cut and dry as you seem to think or that armed guards/police are necessarily the deterrent one might think.

Last Edited: 9/4/2018 2:20:52 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 2:11:36 PM 
Day Tripper wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.


Why do nearly all mass shootings take place in gun free zones? No opposition. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. You would have 5 to 15 minutes before police arrive and probably 30 minutes or more before they decide to do any thing after they assess the situation if they do any thing at all initially.
How many attacks do you see against police stations or armed military camps?
These attackers might be crazy but they are not stupid. They want to shoot where there is the least resistance. A show of force or a police presence helps deter crime.


WTF? Interesting view - actually has little to do with my post - Which acknowledges heavy presence on site of events. Of which I have no issue with. Perhaps if I elaborate on what "in the shadows" means at Panther games. In the hedges as as you enter the outer gates - hidden but visible if you are looking. With gun and explosive smelling canine as they funnel us into lines - visible, but the dogs are what most casual folks focus on. Behind the giant panther statues at the top left and right of the stairs - Able to notice as you approach the stairs, but not in your face as you go up the stairs and get to the ticket taker. Yet less than 15 yards away from you at all times - and able to shoot down - which is to their advantage if there is an issue. Standing with their backs to the memorials at each entrance so someone coming in would have to look behind them to see the sentry. Pedan and Panther are hardly gun-free zones. "in the shadows" is still very much a deterrent to someone trying to do harm - who will look for the good guys with guns.

Last Edited: 9/4/2018 2:44:56 PM by cc-cat

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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 2:19:07 PM 
While I enjoy the discussion about all sorts of topics here with some very sensible people, this thread is really the first time Iíve seen some of the elements that frustrate me on other platforms.

1. The ďtaking it personallyĒ when someone lobs a label like ďgun nutĒ

2. The over-analysis of the type of firearm or the semantics used, when that is not the point of the discussion

This original post is about the show of force at a Bobcat football game.
While I was not at the game, I am finding that an OUPD officer standing at the entrance gate of Peden with a ďmachine gunĒ to be a disturbing image.

The fact that it happens at other pro stadiums (I was just at a Brewers-Cubs game with 45,000 other people in Milwaukee yesterday and there was no such visible presence there) or that this happens at every football/basketball game does not make this any less disturbing.

While I support law enforcementís efforts to keep us safe, I do think there needs to be a balance between the visibility of the show of force with the keeping of a family atmosphere and not making it look like the entrance to a military checkpoint.

I understand the realities of todayís world and the need to keep us safer. But Iím not sure an officer at the entrance with a machine gun does that.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 2:39:16 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.


At Metlife there are always very visible tactical teams.Especially in the bag search area and where the NJ Transit trains drop off/pick up.
They are all N.J. State Police.

I'm sure there are also a bunch of others "in the shadows" not to mention in their Command Center that was expanded for the Super Bowl.

It is interesting that,when there is an event around 9/11 or something similar, you also see military personnel providing security.

We go to West Point for concerts and some sporting events.
Talk about security.
All soldiers,with M-16's
Last time we were there they checked under the car with a mirror,then we had to open the back cargo area and engine compartment.



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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 2:45:56 PM 
Siri: Where can I open carry and tailgate in Athens, Ohio
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 3:47:04 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.


At Metlife there are always very visible tactical teams.Especially in the bag search area and where the NJ Transit trains drop off/pick up.
They are all N.J. State Police.

I'm sure there are also a bunch of others "in the shadows" not to mention in their Command Center that was expanded for the Super Bowl.

It is interesting that,when there is an event around 9/11 or something similar, you also see military personnel providing security.

We go to West Point for concerts and some sporting events.
Talk about security.
All soldiers,with M-16's
Last time we were there they checked under the car with a mirror,then we had to open the back cargo area and engine compartment.





I grew up at West Point. There didn't used to be such a presence. It was an open campus, and while there was a Military Police officer at every gate, civilians could enter at will without so much as a conversation about where they were headed. It wasn't until security services at West Point were privatized post 9/11 that such precautions were put into place.




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MedinaCat
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Location: Lakewood, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 4:01:04 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.


At Metlife there are always very visible tactical teams.Especially in the bag search area and where the NJ Transit trains drop off/pick up.
They are all N.J. State Police.

I'm sure there are also a bunch of others "in the shadows" not to mention in their Command Center that was expanded for the Super Bowl.

It is interesting that,when there is an event around 9/11 or something similar, you also see military personnel providing security.

We go to West Point for concerts and some sporting events.
Talk about security.
All soldiers,with M-16's
Last time we were there they checked under the car with a mirror,then we had to open the back cargo area and engine compartment.




I grew up at West Point. There didn't used to be such a presence. It was an open campus, and while there was a Military Police officer at every gate, civilians could enter at will without so much as a conversation about where they were headed. It wasn't until security services at West Point were privatized post 9/11 that such precautions were put into place.


I assume the precautions are prescribed by the academy and not a result of the outsourcing. That said, some things should not be outsourced/privatized.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 5,207

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  Message Not Read  RE: Machine Gun at the Peden Gate......
   Posted: 9/4/2018 5:01:39 PM 
Day Tripper wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
The weapon debate aside, back to the initial post.

I have the pleasure and honor to work with a number special units at Ft. Bragg (they train in a county I help promote - it is not uncommon for hunters and hikers to stumble upon a hidden member of special forces - who subtly show themselves so as not to cause a hunting accident).

Their view - the show of force is not done as a deterrent, as even the most lone wolf does enough homework to understand the protection and firepower in place. In most cases, the police/military are present, but stay out of the main site lines (hence why most do not know they are present at BB games, etc. I know at Panther games (assuming all four gates are handled the same), there are probably 2 dozen heavily armed personnel at each game. But you have to really look to spot them).

The show of power is done more to assure civilians of the protection. It may be done once or twice in the beginning, but then retreats to the shadows. The exception is if those involved want to boost their own testosterone.

I suspect the sentry observed the other day will be back in the shadows next game.


Why do nearly all mass shootings take place in gun free zones? No opposition. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. You would have 5 to 15 minutes before police arrive and probably 30 minutes or more before they decide to do any thing after they assess the situation if they do any thing at all initially.
How many attacks do you see against police stations or armed military camps?
These attackers might be crazy but they are not stupid. They want to shoot where there is the least resistance. A show of force or a police presence helps deter crime.


Can we invest in barricades that look like they did not come to Athens via Beirut? Many places have effective and decorative barriers, such would add to the experience of going to the Convo or Peden.

Last Edited: 9/4/2018 5:06:41 PM by BillyTheCat

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