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Ohio Football Recruiting
Topic:  RE: Roger Lewis

Topic:  RE: Roger Lewis
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 11:47:43 AM 
Seriously?  Results on the field would indicate differently.  Nine years in and what we are now, what we did this year pleases you?

You're apologist, pollyanna, 100% refusal to acknowledge reality in any way continues to be annoying.  To me it paints you in a certain way, lending very little crediblity to what you say.  Since the facts are so far apart from your assertions.

From now on, I'll follow farmer-teaching-cow-to-sing (frustrates one, no success with other) and ignore you.


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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 12:26:35 PM 
bcat2, I never expected Nebraska like talent.  And, I never said I did.  I expected BETTER TALENT than our MAC brothers and I expected ONE Cahmpionship in 9 years.  So, yes, along with all the good this staff has done (and there has been a lot of it) we have still not made it to that elusive "next level" yet.

And, yes, recruiting is where it starts.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 1:19:29 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
bcat2, I never expected Nebraska like talent. And, I never said I did. I expected BETTER TALENT than our MAC brothers and I expected ONE Cahmpionship in 9 years. So, yes, along with all the good this staff has done (and there has been a lot of it) we have still not made it to that elusive "next level" yet.

And, yes, recruiting is where it starts.


Again, why should the expectation be "way ahead of the MAC?"


"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 1:23:05 PM 
Bobcatzblitz wrote:
...We SHOULD win MOST MAC recruiting battles at this point and for some reason we are not. 
Once the recruiting season is over, I'll post an analysis of how Ohio did against over MAC schools, and I think it will show that Ohio is winning most battles. I'm a little limited in terms of what I can do at the moment because of recent eye surgery.

 


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 1:27:59 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bobcatzblitz wrote:
...We SHOULD win MOST MAC recruiting battles at this point and for some reason we are not. 
Once the recruiting season is over, I'll post an analysis of how Ohio did against over MAC schools, and I think it will show that Ohio is winning most battles. I'm a little limited in terms of what I can do at the moment because of recent eye surgery.

 



If we are winning recuriting battles, but losing on the field, what does that equate too?
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 1:41:55 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bobcatzblitz wrote:
...We SHOULD win MOST MAC recruiting battles at this point and for some reason we are not. 
Once the recruiting season is over, I'll post an analysis of how Ohio did against over MAC schools, and I think it will show that Ohio is winning most battles. I'm a little limited in terms of what I can do at the moment because of recent eye surgery.

 



If we are winning recuriting battles, but losing on the field, what does that equate too?


I think he means winning recruiting battles as of lately, very lately. Not enough time on the team to impact wins/losses.

But then again, I think you know he means that.
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Paul Graham
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 1:59:36 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bobcatzblitz wrote:
...We SHOULD win MOST MAC recruiting battles at this point and for some reason we are not. 
Once the recruiting season is over, I'll post an analysis of how Ohio did against over MAC schools, and I think it will show that Ohio is winning most battles. I'm a little limited in terms of what I can do at the moment because of recent eye surgery.

 


I don't agree with this at all. We are not winning most recruiting battles....we are winning some. Looking through the recruiting resources, I see numerous battles lost to BG, Toledo, Kent, etc... Not unexpected. Actually, looking again, we lose to BG A LOT.

The problem, Bcat2 (Frank), is that you want to push this narrative of unprecedented success and greatness by Solich and his staff...and yet clearly the rest of the football community has a responded with: meh.

Solich has had 9 years to change how we are perceived by others, and he has failed. We still bring in players that no one else wants. We have to go all the way to Vancouver to get a running back (with no offers) for crying out loud!

This is truly the untold story of why this program has leveled out. They were never able to get kids excited about coming to Athens....and when you hear Solich and Haines speak, you see why.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 2:58:05 PM 
I checked against BG. In competition against them the score is 5 for them, 4 for Ohio, but the ones that chose Ohio tend to be higher rated, so it's really about dead even. Using 247 Composite ratings:
QB - Ohio Duckworth, 84; BG Callaway 82
OL -  Ohio Lowery 82; BG Weyler 75
TE/WR - Ohio Brown 83, Kuhar 77; BG Lewis 77/87
DT - Ohio none; BG Weitz 78, King 76

Last Edited: 1/8/2014 3:01:09 PM by L.C.


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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 3:25:58 PM 
Paul Graham wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bobcatzblitz wrote:
...We SHOULD win MOST MAC recruiting battles at this point and for some reason we are not. 
Once the recruiting season is over, I'll post an analysis of how Ohio did against over MAC schools, and I think it will show that Ohio is winning most battles. I'm a little limited in terms of what I can do at the moment because of recent eye surgery.

 

Solich has had 9 years to change how we are perceived by others, and he has failed.


That is just flat-out wrong. How we are perceived today, as a program, is COMPLETELY different from pre-Solich. Are you posting this kind of nonsense simply to get a reaction?
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Paul Graham
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 4:41:41 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bobcatzblitz wrote:
...We SHOULD win MOST MAC recruiting battles at this point and for some reason we are not. 
Once the recruiting season is over, I'll post an analysis of how Ohio did against over MAC schools, and I think it will show that Ohio is winning most battles. I'm a little limited in terms of what I can do at the moment because of recent eye surgery.

 

Solich has had 9 years to change how we are perceived by others, and he has failed.


That is just flat-out wrong. How we are perceived today, as a program, is COMPLETELY different from pre-Solich. Are you posting this kind of nonsense simply to get a reaction?


Ok, fine. He took us from a 1/10 to a 3/10. I don't think its unreasonable to expect that after a decade we should start to reap the benefits of continuity. They should have good relationships with every dang HS coach in Ohio after that long.

And yet, we lose out to in-state MAC programs frequently. Of course, it doesn't help that they kick our butt on the football field....but that's for another thread.

 


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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 5:33:47 PM 
We lose out to in-state programs sometimes. And those times that we lose out are less frequent than they used to be. Our recruiting today is undeniably better than it was even three years ago. So recruiting is moving in the right direction. I don't get how we should be beating all other MAC programs in recruiting. I wish that were true, but why should it be true? No matter who our coach is, we are going to lose out on some recruits. If your expectation is to consistently out-recruit all other MAC programs, every single year, then you will be consistently unsatisfied.

Some kids like popped collers
Some kids like orange and brown as a color combination
Some kids like malls.
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Paul Graham
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 6:16:21 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
We lose out to in-state programs sometimes. And those times that we lose out are less frequent than they used to be. Our recruiting today is undeniably better than it was even three years ago. So recruiting is moving in the right direction. I don't get how we should be beating all other MAC programs in recruiting. I wish that were true, but why should it be true? No matter who our coach is, we are going to lose out on some recruits. If your expectation is to consistently out-recruit all other MAC programs, every single year, then you will be consistently unsatisfied.

Some kids like popped collers
Some kids like orange and brown as a color combination
Some kids like malls.


Recruiting can't get any worse than it was in 2010 when we completely laid an egg. Which is unacceptable for a staff in their 6'th year. So saying that we've improved over 3 years ago is not saying much.

What should have happened (with a good staff) is continued improvement in recruiting. It didn't happen, and Frankly (heh) they don't get points for being competitive with other MAC East teams 9 years later. They should have been at that point when they arrived or a after they went bowling once or twice.

Look at PJ Fleck. He's kicking butt in recruiting and he can't go a day without reminding everyone he's a complete idiot. The reason he's succeeding is he's a good salesman. Frank is not a good salesman...but someone else on the staff should be.




Last Edited: 1/8/2014 6:22:52 PM by Paul Graham

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 8:23:52 PM 
After the 2010 class, they changed coordinators, and since then each class has been progressively better. Of the various Ohio coaches over the years, who would you say comes closest to being the kind of recruiter you are hoping for?


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 8:29:24 PM 
Wait a minute, L.C.  Each class may APPEAR to be better.  But to claim each class IS better--that's a claim that we need to see on the field.  Hopefully we will in the next 2+ years.

But potential does not equal success, as you well know.



Where's the band?!
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/8/2014 9:27:06 PM 
That claim is based on five things:
1. The classes are increasingly made up of first choices, and less on late offers
2. The classes contain significantly more players that chose Ohio over alternatives
3. The classes are higher rated with more 3 star players
4. Solich has commented that they are the best classes yet
5. There has been a significant jump in the number of true Freshmen and Redshirt Freshmen earning significant playing time.

I agree, though, that the true test will be how they measure up over the next several years.

 


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 12:03:43 PM 
L.C. wrote:
That claim is based on five things:
1. The classes are increasingly made up of first choices, and less on late offers
2. The classes contain significantly more players that chose Ohio over alternatives
3. The classes are higher rated with more 3 star players
4. Solich has commented that they are the best classes yet
5. There has been a significant jump in the number of true Freshmen and Redshirt Freshmen earning significant playing time.

I agree, though, that the true test will be how they measure up over the next several years.

 


Numbers 4 and 5 can not be serious?  Especially #4, what is Coach suppossed to say, this class is the worse we've signed in 3 years?  And the jump in number of true and redshirt freshmen playing can be a result of the poor recuriting of the previous years class not the strength of this years class.
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 1:31:52 PM 
#5 is my greatest concern...it means that 9 years into it this staff we did not have enough good upperclassmen to play and had to go to youngsters.  I don't think any of these frosh/rsfrosh were 4 or 5 star recruits so most are playing out of necessity not ability.  I know we've had some injutries but I have to believe everyone has that problem.  That's why I keep harping on getting 8-10 3-star recruits every year.  After 4/5 years you suddenly have the 40 or so guys you need on the two deep that should be players.

Last Edited: 1/9/2014 1:32:39 PM by Casper71

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 1:45:38 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
...what is Coach suppossed to say, this class is the worse we've signed in 3 years?  ...
My observation is that he's old school in the sense that if he doesn't have something positive to say publicly, he doesn't have to day anything at all. Most years he doesn't comment on the freshmen, but this year he did.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 2:36:53 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
#5 is my greatest concern...it means that 9 years into it this staff we did not have enough good upperclassmen to play and had to go to youngsters. I don't think any of these frosh/rsfrosh were 4 or 5 star recruits so most are playing out of necessity not ability. I know we've had some injutries but I have to believe everyone has that problem. That's why I keep harping on getting 8-10 3-star recruits every year. After 4/5 years you suddenly have the 40 or so guys you need on the two deep that should be players.


Casper71. Count on you for the negative spin every time. I invite you to check the schools represented by the Freshman All-Americans. Seems FSU, Auburn, Michigan State, UCLA and Oklahoma all had youngsters play big roles. You can spin it negatively and I will take it as a positive. We can disagree.

2013 FWAA FRESHMAN ALL-AMERICA TEAM

OFFENSE (12)

Pos. Player, School Ht. Wt. Hometown
QB Jameis Winston, Florida State 6-4 228 Bessemer, Ala.

RB • Alex Collins, Arkansas 5-11 206 Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
RB • Elijah McGuire, Louisiana 5-11 185 Houma, La.

WR • Tyler Boyd, Pittsburgh 6-2 185 Clairton, Pa.

WR • Corey Davis, Western Michigan 6-2 205 Wheaton, Ill.
WR • Nate Phillips, Arizona 5-7 177 Chandler, Ariz.

TE • Hunter Henry, Arkansas 6-6 250 Little Rock, Ark.

OL Jack Conklin, Michigan State 6-6 236 Plainwell, Mich.
OL Andrew Jelks, Vanderbilt 6-6 290 Paris, Tenn.

OL Alex Kozan, Auburn 6-4 297 Castle Rock, Colo.

OL Ben Lauer, Minnesota 6-6 302 Plymouth, Minn.
OL • Alex Redmond, UCLA 6-5 305 Cerritos, Calif.

DEFENSE (12)

Pos. Player, School Ht. Wt. Hometown
DL • Tarell Basham, Ohio 6-4 250 Rocky Mount, Va.

DL • Joey Bosa, Ohio State 6-6 275 Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
DL • Eddie Vanderdoes, UCLA 6-4 305 Auburn, Calif.
LB • Dominque Alexander, Oklahoma 6-2 216 Tulsa, Okla.
LB • Dakota Cox, New Mexico 6-0 235 Draper, Utah

LB • Addison Gillam, Colorado 6-3 225 Palo Cedro, Calif.
LB • Myles Jack, UCLA 6-1 225 Bellevue, Wash.

DB • Kendall Fuller, Virginia Tech 5-11 193 Baltimore, Md.
DB Jacoby Glenn, UCF 6-0 176 Prichard, Ala.

DB • Vernon Hargreaves III, Florida 5-11 192 Tampa, Fla.

DB • Jalen Ramsey, Florida State 6-1 195 Smyrna, Tenn.
DB Zack Sanchez, Oklahoma 5-11 176 Keller, Texas


"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Jerry86
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 2:51:24 PM 
Paul Graham wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bobcatzblitz wrote:
...We SHOULD win MOST MAC recruiting battles at this point and for some reason we are not. 
Once the recruiting season is over, I'll post an analysis of how Ohio did against over MAC schools, and I think it will show that Ohio is winning most battles. I'm a little limited in terms of what I can do at the moment because of recent eye surgery.

 


I don't agree with this at all. We are not winning most recruiting battles....we are winning some. Looking through the recruiting resources, I see numerous battles lost to BG, Toledo, Kent, etc... Not unexpected. Actually, looking again, we lose to BG A LOT.

The problem, Bcat2 (Frank), is that you want to push this narrative of unprecedented success and greatness by Solich and his staff...and yet clearly the rest of the football community has a responded with: meh.

Solich has had 9 years to change how we are perceived by others, and he has failed. We still bring in players that no one else wants. We have to go all the way to Vancouver to get a running back (with no offers) for crying out loud!

This is truly the untold story of why this program has leveled out. They were never able to get kids excited about coming to Athens....and when you hear Solich and Haines speak, you see why.


Frank has failed? LOL No clue as to when you graduated but if you know anything about the history of Ohio fotball you'd know that his percentage of wins beats anybody in the past 55 years, including Bill Hess. A guy who is approaching 60% wins is someone we should be thankful for.

And what on earth does the way Frank speaks have to do with anything?

Last, WHY do you think Ohio should be at the top of the MAC when we were a bottom dweller for 40 years? Some of you guys just want to whine I think.
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 2:58:53 PM 
bcat2, that's funny.  I am NOT always negative, read my posts in full and don't put a spin on them (just gfo up about 5 posts).  i will repeat, I doubt that Basham was a 4-5 star recruit.  He got playing time because on an injury to an upperclassman and no other good option at the position.

I agree, he made the best out of the situation but instead of having him around another year to mature we were pretty much FORCED to burn his red shirt.

I am sure some if not many of the guys on your lists of frosh all americans were 4-5 star recruits.  They were playing because they were that highly rated.

Last Edited: 1/9/2014 3:00:07 PM by Casper71

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 4:08:34 PM 
I am not in a position to verify this at the moment, but my recollection is that most, if not all of the Ohio players that have been drafted played as true Freshmen. That would also mean that perhaps 1/3 of the players that play as true Freshmen will end up getting drafted. That would indicate to me that talent is a factor, and its not always just a lack of depth.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 4:23:49 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
bcat2, that's funny. I am NOT always negative, read my posts in full and don't put a spin on them (just gfo up about 5 posts). i will repeat, I doubt that Basham was a 4-5 star recruit. He got playing time because on an injury to an upperclassman and no other good option at the position.

I agree, he made the best out of the situation but instead of having him around another year to mature we were pretty much FORCED to burn his red shirt.

I am sure some if not many of the guys on your lists of frosh all americans were 4-5 star recruits. They were playing because they were that highly rated.


Casper71, Basham took his time on the field away from Nick Barber and Kendric Smith, both representative athletes. The coaches were forced to play him because he is freshman All-American material. He was on the depth chart for game one, Louisville. None of the Freshmen All Americans played because they were highly rated. They played because they were that good. Once you get to butting heads no one gives a hoot about stars.

2013 FWAA FRESHMAN ALL-AMERICA TEAM

OFFENSE (12)

Pos. Player, School Ht. Wt. Hometown
QB Jameis Winston, Florida State 6-4 228 Bessemer, Ala.

RB • Alex Collins, Arkansas 5-11 206 Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
RB • Elijah McGuire, Louisiana 5-11 185 Houma, La.

WR • Tyler Boyd, Pittsburgh 6-2 185 Clairton, Pa.

WR • Corey Davis, Western Michigan 6-2 205 Wheaton, Ill.
WR • Nate Phillips, Arizona 5-7 177 Chandler, Ariz.

TE • Hunter Henry, Arkansas 6-6 250 Little Rock, Ark.

OL Jack Conklin, Michigan State 6-6 236 Plainwell, Mich.
OL Andrew Jelks, Vanderbilt 6-6 290 Paris, Tenn.

OL Alex Kozan, Auburn 6-4 297 Castle Rock, Colo.

OL Ben Lauer, Minnesota 6-6 302 Plymouth, Minn.
OL • Alex Redmond, UCLA 6-5 305 Cerritos, Calif.

DEFENSE (12)

Pos. Player, School Ht. Wt. Hometown
DL • Tarell Basham, Ohio 6-4 250 Rocky Mount, Va.

DL • Joey Bosa, Ohio State 6-6 275 Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
DL • Eddie Vanderdoes, UCLA 6-4 305 Auburn, Calif.
LB • Dominque Alexander, Oklahoma 6-2 216 Tulsa, Okla.
LB • Dakota Cox, New Mexico 6-0 235 Draper, Utah

LB • Addison Gillam, Colorado 6-3 225 Palo Cedro, Calif.
LB • Myles Jack, UCLA 6-1 225 Bellevue, Wash.

DB • Kendall Fuller, Virginia Tech 5-11 193 Baltimore, Md.
DB Jacoby Glenn, UCF 6-0 176 Prichard, Ala.

DB • Vernon Hargreaves III, Florida 5-11 192 Tampa, Fla.

DB • Jalen Ramsey, Florida State 6-1 195 Smyrna, Tenn.
DB Zack Sanchez, Oklahoma 5-11 176 Keller, Texas


"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Bobcatzblitz
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 4:45:46 PM 
It is safe to say a Bobcat coach found a diamond in the rough down in Rocky Mount Va. Terrell was not highly recruited and I doubt UVA or VaTech sniffed any of his talents.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Roger Lewis
   Posted: 1/9/2014 6:04:08 PM 
And once you get to butting heads nine years in you shouldn't get whupped but good by almost all of the teams on your sched that aren't 'the worst', but most of which aren't really very good/not good enough to win a bowl game.
Espec with all that talent we have.

Talent.  Fine coaching.  1 + 1 = 2.  Or else the talent and/or the coaching is not so good. 


Where's the band?!
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