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But keep pressing fringe statistical arguments. I'm sure one day that they'll prove that we've won a MACC. There's no basis for anything other than that Solich and staff are very average for the MAC. We could aim for a MACC. Or be happy with every time we're on TV 'this staff's been together longer than any other in the country.' Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top Casper71 General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Post Count: 2,894 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 12:40:57 AM  L.C., you make my point. The staff gets a lot out of the talent we get. I just wish they would get more talent! I still can't figure out why a guy that coached at Neb and in a National Championship game cannot get more talent to Athens. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,064 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 12:57:36 AM  You have stated at various points that they are below average recruiters, not good at player development, poor at play calling, poor at game planning, and poor at game management. If even close to true, shouldn't they lose every game? Here's a question for you, Monroe. Suppose Solich and staff were at another MAC school such as Miami, BG, NIU, or Toledo that was in an area that is rich with talent. How many MAC championships would they have won? While we're at it, suppose Nick Saban were at Vanderbit. How many SEC Championships would have earned by now? How many National Championships? “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 8:03:32 AM  L.C. wrote: You have stated at various points that they are below average recruiters, not good at player development, poor at play calling, poor at game planning, and poor at game management. If even close to true, shouldn't they lose every game? Here's a question for you, Monroe. Suppose Solich and staff were at another MAC school such as Miami, BG, NIU, or Toledo that was in an area that is rich with talent. How many MAC championships would they have won? While we're at it, suppose Nick Saban were at Vanderbit. How many SEC Championships would have earned by now? How many National Championships? Let's not blame it on the location. BG and toledo don't get most of their recruits from Toledo. We have came up short. We gave up 20-0 lead, let's move on and try to get a championship this year. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top Bcat2 General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 4,295 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 10:21:04 AM  allen wrote: L.C. wrote: You have stated at various points that they are below average recruiters, not good at player development, poor at play calling, poor at game planning, and poor at game management. If even close to true, shouldn't they lose every game? Here's a question for you, Monroe. Suppose Solich and staff were at another MAC school such as Miami, BG, NIU, or Toledo that was in an area that is rich with talent. How many MAC championships would they have won? While we're at it, suppose Nick Saban were at Vanderbit. How many SEC Championships would have earned by now? How many National Championships? Let's not blame it on the location. BG and toledo don't get most of their recruits from Toledo. We have came up short. We gave up 20-0 lead, let's move on and try to get a championship this year. "We gave up 20-0 lead," I always love to read comments like this. "We gave up 20-0 lead," So, that 20-0 lead, must have been gracious of NIU to "give it" to Ohio. In my experience, on a football field or any other competition, especially between well matched teams at the championship level, rarely is anything "given." To say so fails to acknowledge what NIU's defense did in the second half and what Chandler Harnish, accomplished in the fourth quarter. I have seen fans of championship teams after a tough game surround the opposing team's tunnel to clap for them as they left the field. I will never get used to "fans" who's first inclination, after a tough hard fought contest when the other team prevailed, is to throw their own team under the bus. "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,064 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 10:43:30 AM  allen wrote: Let's not blame it on the location. BG and toledo don't get most of their recruits from Toledo. We have came up short. We gave up 20-0 lead, let's move on and try to get a championship this year. My point is that there are historical reasons why some schools do better than others, and it isn't always easy to know what those reasons are. Proximity to recruits is certainly one. Teams in areas that produce a lot of recruits, like Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Texas, and USC are near the top of the country year after year, and it's not just random luck. You can see the effect clearly when you take an example like Earle Bruce, who was 36-32 at Iowa State, with no conference championships, and who then went 81-26-1 at Ohio State, and won 2 championships outright in 9 years, and tied for 2 others. In a conference like the MAC the reasons may be less apparent, but they are there nevertheless. Why are EMU and Kent historically bad, for example? Why was Ohio historically bad? Wes has argued that it is facilities, and I'm sure that is part of it. BTC argued that it was because of low funding, for example, not paying for players to stay over the summer, and I'm sure that was also part of it. Solich has worked, not only to coach the team, but to build the foundation. Facilities have improved. Funding for the things necessary to win have been increased. The net result is that the program continues to improve. No, it hasn't been as fast as any of us would like, but the progress is there to observe, if you look, and contrary to what some believe, the progress continues even today. By all my measures, this was the best recruiting class yet, but I presume that when the new Academic Center is done, and there is a new scoreboard, those will help recruiting to reach even better levels. To me the question is how lasting the changes wrought by Solich will be. If Solich has done enough to build the foundations, then when he's gone the program will continue to thrive. If not, it will return to where it was. As comparison points, on the one extreme, after Hess, it didn't take long for Ohio to fall into a very bad time, while at the other extreme, after Joe Novak at NIU, the foundation was lad for years of success. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 10:46:06 AM  Bcat2 wrote: allen wrote: L.C. wrote: You have stated at various points that they are below average recruiters, not good at player development, poor at play calling, poor at game planning, and poor at game management. If even close to true, shouldn't they lose every game? Here's a question for you, Monroe. Suppose Solich and staff were at another MAC school such as Miami, BG, NIU, or Toledo that was in an area that is rich with talent. How many MAC championships would they have won? While we're at it, suppose Nick Saban were at Vanderbit. How many SEC Championships would have earned by now? How many National Championships? Let's not blame it on the location. BG and toledo don't get most of their recruits from Toledo. We have came up short. We gave up 20-0 lead, let's move on and try to get a championship this year. "We gave up 20-0 lead," I always love to read comments like this. "We gave up 20-0 lead," So, that 20-0 lead, must have been gracious of NIU to "give it" to Ohio. In my experience, on a football field or any other competition, especially between well matched teams at the championship level, rarely is anything "given." To say so fails to acknowledge what NIU's defense did in the second half and what Chandler Harnish, accomplished in the fourth quarter. I have seen fans of championship teams after a tough game surround the opposing team's tunnel to clap for them as they left the field. I will never get used to "fans" who's first inclination, after a tough hard fought contest when the other team prevailed, is to throw their own team under the bus. However you want to phrase it, we lost the lead. They played the most unbelievable 10 minutes of football, it was like we were playing megatrons. Create whatever moral you want, whatever makes you feel good but we lost. Last year, we started off slow, turned over the ball and we lost. Location has nothing to do with it. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top Bcat2 General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 4,295 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 11:23:07 AM  allen wrote: Bcat2 wrote: allen wrote: L.C. wrote: You have stated at various points that they are below average recruiters, not good at player development, poor at play calling, poor at game planning, and poor at game management. If even close to true, shouldn't they lose every game? Here's a question for you, Monroe. Suppose Solich and staff were at another MAC school such as Miami, BG, NIU, or Toledo that was in an area that is rich with talent. How many MAC championships would they have won? While we're at it, suppose Nick Saban were at Vanderbit. How many SEC Championships would have earned by now? How many National Championships? Let's not blame it on the location. BG and toledo don't get most of their recruits from Toledo. We have came up short. We gave up 20-0 lead, let's move on and try to get a championship this year. "We gave up 20-0 lead," I always love to read comments like this. "We gave up 20-0 lead," So, that 20-0 lead, must have been gracious of NIU to "give it" to Ohio. In my experience, on a football field or any other competition, especially between well matched teams at the championship level, rarely is anything "given." To say so fails to acknowledge what NIU's defense did in the second half and what Chandler Harnish, accomplished in the fourth quarter. I have seen fans of championship teams after a tough game surround the opposing team's tunnel to clap for them as they left the field. I will never get used to "fans" who's first inclination, after a tough hard fought contest when the other team prevailed, is to throw their own team under the bus. However you want to phrase it, we lost the lead. They played the most unbelievable 10 minutes of football, it was like we were playing megatrons. Create whatever moral you want, whatever makes you feel good but we lost. Last year, we started off slow, turned over the ball and we lost. Location has nothing to do with it. "Last year, we started off slow, turned over the ball and we lost." Still waiting for you to acknowledge that there was even another team on the field. Western had everything to do with a slow start, did they create turnovers, as Ohio 'lost", Western "won" the game the old fashioned way. It was a very good game. Hang your head in shame if you like, I will not go there. "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 11:29:01 AM  Bcat2 wrote: allen wrote: Bcat2 wrote: allen wrote: L.C. wrote: You have stated at various points that they are below average recruiters, not good at player development, poor at play calling, poor at game planning, and poor at game management. If even close to true, shouldn't they lose every game? Here's a question for you, Monroe. Suppose Solich and staff were at another MAC school such as Miami, BG, NIU, or Toledo that was in an area that is rich with talent. How many MAC championships would they have won? While we're at it, suppose Nick Saban were at Vanderbit. How many SEC Championships would have earned by now? How many National Championships? Let's not blame it on the location. BG and toledo don't get most of their recruits from Toledo. We have came up short. We gave up 20-0 lead, let's move on and try to get a championship this year. "We gave up 20-0 lead," I always love to read comments like this. "We gave up 20-0 lead," So, that 20-0 lead, must have been gracious of NIU to "give it" to Ohio. In my experience, on a football field or any other competition, especially between well matched teams at the championship level, rarely is anything "given." To say so fails to acknowledge what NIU's defense did in the second half and what Chandler Harnish, accomplished in the fourth quarter. I have seen fans of championship teams after a tough game surround the opposing team's tunnel to clap for them as they left the field. I will never get used to "fans" who's first inclination, after a tough hard fought contest when the other team prevailed, is to throw their own team under the bus. However you want to phrase it, we lost the lead. They played the most unbelievable 10 minutes of football, it was like we were playing megatrons. Create whatever moral you want, whatever makes you feel good but we lost. Last year, we started off slow, turned over the ball and we lost. Location has nothing to do with it. "Last year, we started off slow, turned over the ball and we lost." Still waiting for you to acknowledge that there was even another team on the field. Western had everything to do with a slow start, did they create turnovers, as Ohio 'lost", Western "won" the game the old fashioned way. It was a very good game. Hang your head in shame if you like, I will not go there. I am not hanging my head, I am saying we lost. Let's focus on the future. The team should hate the taste of losing and that will make them hungrier to win. They played a great game but came up short. They were both very winnable games, we were not outmatched, we just need to improve. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top Bobcat1996 General User Member Since: 1/2/2017 Post Count: 794 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 11:46:18 AM  LC and others- I would encourage you to ignore the constant negative posts from one certain poster. Every Bobcat fan knows that the football program has not won a MAC title since the late 60's. If you ask this staff, I am certain, the lack of a MAC championship is one goal that haunts them. However not winning a MAC championship isn't the only thing that should define Coach Solich and his staff. Football is not like basketball in that if the basketball team gets hot for three games in March, they win the conference tourney and head to the NCAA. Only Coach Hunter's team in the past 30 years has finished as the number one seed and won the MAC regular season basketball championship outright. One day, Coach Solich will step down and retire and I for one will be very thankful for what he has done for our program. Maybe the negative posters who want to get rid of Coach Solich for not winning a league title would prefer the university go back to 1-10, 1-10, 2-9, 1-9-1, 2-8-1, 0-11 and 2-10 seasons that were not that long ago? I could be one of the few fans that would prefer a 10 or 11 win season and a bowl win as opposed to a league title. Having said that, it would be great to get both. However if the the Bobcats ended up 5-3 in the east and ended up playing in Detroit and beat the MAC west winner, but only earned one non league win, would that season be considered a great year if they lost in the bowl game? In that scenario the final record would be 7-7. On the other hand, consider this scenario. Bobcats win three non-league games beating a Big 10 or Big 12 school in September, but ended up 6-2 in the league, but lost a tiebreaker and didn't go to the MAC title game. They go on to win a bowl game and end up 10-3. I'd prefer the 10-3 season as opposed to the 7-7 record. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,064 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 1:25:51 PM  Thanks, Bobcat1996, and I don't disagree. I do ignore those posts when he MACC-bombs random threads, for the most part, and don't post nearly as much as I used to because the quality of discussion on BA has dropped significantly. The one place I do still post is on the recruiting threads. On those I have more tendency to answer posts that are recruiting oriented, even if they are indirectly related. That includes reconciling the differences between the 247Compositite ranking (8th in the MAC), the RankByOffers ranking (3rd in the MAC), and a ranking based on raw 247Sports data (2d in the MAC), and it also includes commenting on longer term recruiting trends. Along the way, I admit that I couldn't resist pointing out that his worldview can't be correct, because if it was, Ohio would lose every game. Since Ohio wins more games than they lose, the coaches must be better than average in at least some areas. There may be some area where they are "below average", but it can't possibly be all areas, so claiming that obviously nonsense. In my mind there were three areas where Ohio has needed to improve. One was the OL. The second was QB play. The third is recruiting. The OL and QB have been addressed significantly in this recruiting class, and both positions have new coaches as of a few years ago that appear to be an improvement over their predecessors, so I'm not concerned about either position. As for overall recruiting, it continues to improve as well. With progress in all three areas, I expect to see the teams continuing to improve each year, subject to minor fluctuations due to specific personnel. In short, I love this recruiting class. It addresses the need areas, QB and OL with 5 good linemen (Tusha, Kitrel, Jackson, Hayes, Meservy) and 2 good quarterbacks (Rourke, Keszei), plus it includes some great playmakers in all other areas. People can be unhappy, if they want, but this class is a wrap, and it looks good to me. Last Edited: 2/5/2017 1:31:14 PM by L.C. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Doc Bobcat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 4,180 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 1:51:12 PM  L.C. wrote: Thanks, Bobcat1996, and I don't disagree. I do ignore those posts when he MACC-bombs random threads, for the most part, and don't post nearly as much as I used to because the quality of discussion on BA has dropped significantly. The one place I do still post is on the recruiting threads. On those I have more tendency to answer posts that are recruiting oriented, even if they are indirectly related. That includes reconciling the differences between the 247Compositite ranking (8th in the MAC), the RankByOffers ranking (3rd in the MAC), and a ranking based on raw 247Sports data (2d in the MAC), and it also includes commenting on longer term recruiting trends. Along the way, I admit that I couldn't resist pointing out that his worldview can't be correct, because if it was, Ohio would lose every game. Since Ohio wins more games than they lose, the coaches must be better than average in at least some areas. There may be some area where they are "below average", but it can't possibly be all areas, so claiming that obviously nonsense. In my mind there were three areas where Ohio has needed to improve. One was the OL. The second was QB play. The third is recruiting. The OL and QB have been addressed significantly in this recruiting class, and both positions have new coaches as of a few years ago that appear to be an improvement over their predecessors, so I'm not concerned about either position. As for overall recruiting, it continues to improve as well. With progress in all three areas, I expect to see the teams continuing to improve each year, subject to minor fluctuations due to specific personnel. In short, I love this recruiting class. It addresses the need areas, QB and OL with 5 good linemen (Tusha, Kitrel, Jackson, Hayes, Meservy) and 2 good quarterbacks (Rourke, Keszei), plus it includes some great playmakers in all other areas. People can be unhappy, if they want, but this class is a wrap, and it looks good to me. Addressing current needs is a double edged sword...it improves your team but you don't always pick the BPA which lowers your recruiting scores by the so-called experts. If you would have asked me before signing day I would have wished for current needs and playmakers. Winner winner chicken dinner. Last Edited: 2/5/2017 1:52:39 PM by Doc Bobcat Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 1:52:48 PM  L.C. wrote: Thanks, Bobcat1996, and I don't disagree. I do ignore those posts when he MACC-bombs random threads, for the most part, and don't post nearly as much as I used to because the quality of discussion on BA has dropped significantly. The one place I do still post is on the recruiting threads. On those I have more tendency to answer posts that are recruiting oriented, even if they are indirectly related. That includes reconciling the differences between the 247Compositite ranking (8th in the MAC), the RankByOffers ranking (3rd in the MAC), and a ranking based on raw 247Sports data (2d in the MAC), and it also includes commenting on longer term recruiting trends. Along the way, I admit that I couldn't resist pointing out that his worldview can't be correct, because if it was, Ohio would lose every game. Since Ohio wins more games than they lose, the coaches must be better than average in at least some areas. There may be some area where they are "below average", but it can't possibly be all areas, so claiming that obviously nonsense. In my mind there were three areas where Ohio has needed to improve. One was the OL. The second was QB play. The third is recruiting. The OL and QB have been addressed significantly in this recruiting class, and both positions have new coaches as of a few years ago that appear to be an improvement over their predecessors, so I'm not concerned about either position. As for overall recruiting, it continues to improve as well. With progress in all three areas, I expect to see the teams continuing to improve each year, subject to minor fluctuations due to specific personnel. In short, I love this recruiting class. It addresses the need areas, QB and OL with 5 good linemen (Tusha, Kitrel, Jackson, Hayes, Meservy) and 2 good quarterbacks (Rourke, Keszei), plus it includes some great playmakers in all other areas. People can be unhappy, if they want, but this class is a wrap, and it looks good to me. I like the class as well. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top CA Bobcat General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: San Ramon, CA Post Count: 149 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 2:26:55 PM  Bobcat1996 wrote: LC and others- I would encourage you to ignore the constant negative posts from one certain poster. Every Bobcat fan knows that the football program has not won a MAC title since the late 60's. If you ask this staff, I am certain, the lack of a MAC championship is one goal that haunts them. However not winning a MAC championship isn't the only thing that should define Coach Solich and his staff. Football is not like basketball in that if the basketball team gets hot for three games in March, they win the conference tourney and head to the NCAA. Only Coach Hunter's team in the past 30 years has finished as the number one seed and won the MAC regular season basketball championship outright. One day, Coach Solich will step down and retire and I for one will be very thankful for what he has done for our program. Maybe the negative posters who want to get rid of Coach Solich for not winning a league title would prefer the university go back to 1-10, 1-10, 2-9, 1-9-1, 2-8-1, 0-11 and 2-10 seasons that were not that long ago? I could be one of the few fans that would prefer a 10 or 11 win season and a bowl win as opposed to a league title. Having said that, it would be great to get both. However if the the Bobcats ended up 5-3 in the east and ended up playing in Detroit and beat the MAC west winner, but only earned one non league win, would that season be considered a great year if they lost in the bowl game? In that scenario the final record would be 7-7. On the other hand, consider this scenario. Bobcats win three non-league games beating a Big 10 or Big 12 school in September, but ended up 6-2 in the league, but lost a tiebreaker and didn't go to the MAC title game. They go on to win a bowl game and end up 10-3. I'd prefer the 10-3 season as opposed to the 7-7 record. His posts are being ignored more and more frequently and as soon as a few more wise up to the tactic, he will be effectively banished to his own deserted island. Only then will BA be able to return to what it once was and although it is possible that other trolls could join BA, I highly doubt any would be as hell-bent to force feed us a particular agenda in such a grossly narcissistic way (i.e., be a total d-bag). Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 3:08:20 PM  Solich at another MAC school, probably no MAC titles. That's easy. Saban at Vanderbilt. Probably a national title. That's easy. Cross it this way: How many MAC team fans would be overjoyed if it was announced that Solich was their head coach? How many teams anywhere in the nation would be overjoyed if it was announced that Saban was their head coach? Great. So, we're not the team that won 17 games in 11 years at one point. So, let's accept 12 years of MAC mediocrity even with all the facility upgrades. Let's compete--but not compete for a MAC title. That's the way to put the money in and do it. 20-0 to 20-23 is extremely notable. It's so very representative of 1) no MACC in 12 years, 2) MAC is a weak conference with annually about five horrid teams, 3) 0-4 in MACC games, 4) 2-6 bowls, 5) worse last year with multi-All-MAC than year before, and 5) lost 3 of the last 4. I love how most of the feedback to me ignores those five things, ignores that they were achieved and, sadly, have meaning. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 3:09:49 PM  CA Bobcat wrote: His posts are being ignored more and more frequently and as soon as a few more wise up to the tactic, he will be effectively banished to his own deserted island. Only then will BA be able to return to what it once was and although it is possible that other trolls could join BA, I highly doubt any would be as hell-bent to force feed us a particular agenda in such a grossly narcissistic way (i.e., be a total d-bag). My man! You go on classlessly, meaninglessly trashing me instead of responding to the facts and logic! Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 3:17:22 PM  For my friend OCF, please note that four of my five numbered points are facts. So, is 20-0 to 20-23. Recruiting assessments are 'hot-stove' fun. But are not facts. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,064 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 4:09:44 PM  Monroe Slavin wrote: Solich at another MAC school, probably no MAC titles. That's easy. Saban at Vanderbilt. Probably a national title. That's easy. ... I'm actually shocked that you would admit to believing that. I couldn't disagree more. I think the school has as much or more to do with the results than the coach. To depersonalize the issue, I'll limit discussion to the second question. I think Saban is far too smart to have ever taken a position at Vanderbilt because he knows he'd have struggled to win half his games. He managed to win 59% of his games at Michigan State, a bit over their average of 55%. He won 75% at LSU, also over their 67% win rate since 1960. At Alabama he has won 86%, again, over their 75% school win rate. If he had performed comparably at Vandy, he'd have most likely won about half of the time, well over their longer term win rate of 32%, but no threat to win a SECC, much less a national championship. There is no doubt that Saban is a good coach. He's won more at every school than that school's traditional win rate, yet there is no doubt that his win rate has been affected by the school's tradition. Is that a coincidence? Hardly, because each school has it's own traits that make it more or less attractive to players. That is why the smart coaches are careful what jobs they take. Many jobs are dead-end jobs because you have no chance of long term success. Getting back to Vandy, Derek Mason has won 37% of his games, slightly above their long term rate, yet he is trending upwards. He was 3-9, 4-8, then last year 6-7. If he has another good year, and perhaps goes 8-5, he may get some offers to coach at another school where he can hope to have better success. I would urge him to take advantage of the opportunity, if he gets it. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 7:12:39 PM  L.C. historical means are misleading because fundamentals have changed. Take TCU and SMU. SMU over 100 year period has a better program. But it abruptly changed when SMU was hit with the death penalty. Frank was talking a lot about how the MACs national TV presence was a factor and I heard a lot about the academics too, seemingly in regard to competing against CUSA and SBC schools for recruits. NIU in the Orange Bowl and WMU in the Cotton Bowl recently Im sure helps. In the 80's and 90's Ohio had no facilities. The fundamentals around the Bobcat program be it TV, facilites and postseason have changed. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,064 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/5/2017 7:44:43 PM  Uncle Wes wrote: L.C. historical means are misleading because fundamentals have changed. Take TCU and SMU. SMU over 100 year period has a better program. But it abruptly changed when SMU was hit with the death penalty. Frank was talking a lot about how the MACs national TV presence was a factor and I heard a lot about the academics too, seemingly in regard to competing against CUSA and SBC schools for recruits. NIU in the Orange Bowl and WMU in the Cotton Bowl recently Im sure helps. In the 80's and 90's Ohio had no facilities. The fundamentals around the Bobcat program be it TV, facilites and postseason have changed. Wes, I agree that things change, but they change for reasons. Coaches can change them somewhat, doing a bit better, or a bit worse, but Bill Snyder is the only one that I can think of that took a bottom team and made them a top team. In the examples you cite, SMU was changed because of a single event. Conference realignment is another change that can occur. Building new facilities, or new TV contracts are less dramatic, but can cause incremental change. That's why I have said that Frank's real contribution, in the long term, comes in the realm of program-building. His efforts to change fundamentals not only make it easier for him to win, they will help those that follow him as well. The IPF, the Academic center, and funding for more programs are things that will help Ohio in the years ahead. Still, it is sometimes remarkable just how stable things can be. As an example, isn't it odd that if you look back at Ohio Basketball history, virtually every coach dating back to 1922 has won about 60% of their games? The only real exceptions were Dale Bandy (1974-80) Billy Hahn (1986-89). Saul is running a little below that at the moment, but he'll probably end up about 60%, too. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/6/2017 12:06:21 AM  L.C. wrote: . . . You can see the effect clearly when you take an example like Earle Bruce, who was 36-32 at Iowa State, with no conference championships, and who then went 81-26-1 at Ohio State, and won 2 championships outright in 9 years, and tied for 2 others. And, you know there were Monroe-like fans at OSU who called him old 9-3 Earle. They wanted him fired for several years before he left. A series of 9-3 seasons was just not acceptable. To me, this signifies something really wrong about college football. Some fans feel entitled to an undefeated season, or a league championship, or some other criteria and start screaming for heads to roll if that criteria is not met. To me a 9-3 season is quite an excellent result. Would I prefer an undefeated season. Yes, of course! But do I think I have right to demand it? No. L.C. wrote: Solich has worked, not only to coach the team, but to build the foundation. Facilities have improved. Funding for the things necessary to win have been increased. The net result is that the program continues to improve. No, it hasn't been as fast as any of us would like, but the progress is there to observe, if you look, and contrary to what some believe, the progress continues even today. By all my measures, this was the best recruiting class yet, but I presume that when the new Academic Center is done, and there is a new scoreboard, those will help recruiting to reach even better levels. Very well said, L.C. I've felt for years that Solich was building not a football team but a football program. After the Wilderness Years of Cleve and PaPaL, the program was really in dire straights. Grobe started an upward trend, but most of his work was undone by Knorr. When Solich arrived the morale and the infrastructure of the program were not in good shape. It took him much longer than normal turn things around because he needed not only to change the culture but also to start to improve the physical facilities. Now with the IPF (MPF) in place, I think we are beginning to see an improvement in recruiting. If Solich chooses to stay a few more years, i think his best OHIO teams are yet to come. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/6/2017 2:59:29 AM  Solich has been here 12 years. How long does it take to build a foundation? Starting with the last six games of 2012 (when it turned after a 7-0 start), we're 31-27 with the full seasons having 6, 6, 5, and 6 losses. (Again, OCF, those are facts. You might notice not a single full season with less than five losses and 75% of those full seasons with six losses, though undergirded with play in the weak MAC East.) ARE YOU SERIOUS? THAT'S BUILDING? Please adjust meds. And, by the way, Saban at Vandy--he'd assuredly have them considered a national title threat after 3-4 years and have conference titles. The conclusions of the SFB are wonderously detached from reality. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/6/2017 3:00:25 AM  Monroe Slavin wrote: Solich has been here 12 years. How long does it take to build a foundation? Starting with the last six games of 2012 (when it turned after a 7-0 start), we're 31-27 with the full seasons having 6, 6, 5, and 6 losses. Sorry; had to repeat so that it might..just maybe..sink in to the minds of the SFB. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/6/2017 3:09:26 AM  Saban 56-7 during that same period. Which is better?: 31-27 or 56-7 (Hint: Solich would have to go 25 and negative 20 to match) I realize that there are institutional advantages at Alabama vs. Ohio. But Saban plays a much tougher schedule. (Will I have to argue with you about that?) But it's a good argument; Saban would is only marginally better than usual at Alabama and would be same at Vandy or Toledo, etc. All that statistical and stars study and projections/predictions and you can't see the achieved relative merit of Saban and of Solich?! Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,064 Status: Offline     RE: 2017 Ohio Football Commits    Posted: 2/6/2017 10:18:49 AM  Monroe Slavin wrote: ...And, by the way, Saban at Vandy--he'd assuredly have them considered a national title threat after 3-4 years and have conference titles. The conclusions of the SFB are wonderously detached from reality. Thanks for my laugh for the day. That is funny stuff, Monroe. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Showing Replies:   176 - 200  of 223 Posts Jump to Page:   < Previous    1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9    Next > View Other 'Ohio Football Recruiting' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 275 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 273 Guests 2 Registered Users:   100%Cat, Andrew Ruck There are no other users looking at this page.

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