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Topic:  RE: QB

Topic:  RE: QB
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/22/2015 6:08:12 PM 
Why are we talking about Northern Illinois? They have won championships.

Last Edited: 12/22/2015 6:30:49 PM by allen


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/22/2015 6:19:37 PM 
Same staff, same offense, why expect a different outcome in recruiting a QB?

What you have seen is what you will continue to get.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/22/2015 6:55:34 PM 
ytownbobcat wrote:
Same staff, same offense, why expect a different outcome in recruiting a QB?

What you have seen is what you will continue to get.

I'm not sure what you mean. This will be Isphording's second QB recruiting class. Last year I was very impressed with Maxwell, though I was mostly alone. If you're saying that we can expect another QB of the same quality as Maxwell, I would be most pleased with that, offers or not.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/22/2015 7:03:45 PM 
LC, how can you be impressed with Maxwell? He passed fo 100 yards per game in division 4 football.


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/22/2015 10:36:09 PM 
allen wrote:
LC, how can you be impressed with Maxwell? He passed fo 100 yards per game in division 4 football.

I'm not sure if that is intended to be a rhetorical question or not, but I will try to answer it anyway. First, however, I'll give you some context for it.

Because I believe that recruiting matters, and that better players means better teams, I started closely tracking recruiting rankings back in about 2006 or so. I found three ratings, so I tracked them. I went in with the preconceived notion that the ratings would be imperfect predictors of performance, but that there would be some correlation to later results. I didn't know which service was the best, so I tracked all of them, as well as how many offers each player was reported to have.

Later, I decided to try to correlate the ratings to how the players later performed on the field, and was surprised by what I found. I found essentially no correlation at all between any of the ratings and later performance. I found that no rating service was better than the others - they all sucked. About 2012 or so I decided, well, if these services all suck, maybe I'll try my own eyes. I can't do any worse. So, about 2012 I started watching video on all the recruits myself, and giving each recruit a rating. How am I doing? It's still too early to tell. My ratings for 2012 were very good, actually, and significantly more accurate than the ratings services. My ratings for 2013 were horrible. It's still to early to tell on 2014-15. So, what does that tell us? That my rating of Maxwell could be right, or not, but that it has no particular credibility.

So, now on to your question, what do I like about him. These are things that I see as positives:
1. He has the size. He's not 6'0.5" and 180lbs, which is what Ohio continually recruited under Gdowski. He's 6'3" and 214.
2. He hustles. In fact, he won a hustle award in Basketball
3. He not only doesn't appear afraid to run, when he runs, he looks like he relishes it.
4. He's fast.
5. He has a powerful arm - most of the passes in his highlights were soft passes, but a few he had to throw hard, and he did, and showed he has plenty of arm strength

Now the negative. As you point out, his passing stats were very unimpressive. I tend to disregard that because he played on bad team. On a bad team the blocking won't be good, and that will mean a number of off-balance throws, and those will hurt the stats. It will also mean that the receivers will not get open, and will drop passes when they do get open.

The result was that I decided to treat the stats as meaningless, and trust my eyes on what I saw, and I liked what I saw. Now, over the next year or three I will eventually be proved right, or wrong, so we'll have to see. In the meantime, if you haven't watched the hudl for Maxwell, why not watch it, and keep an open mind. After you watch it, why not report back on what you like and don't like?

Last Edited: 12/23/2015 7:17:32 AM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/22/2015 11:21:19 PM 
L.C. wrote:
allen wrote:
LC, how can you be impressed with Maxwell? He passed fo 100 yards per game in division 4 football.

I'm not sure if that is intended to be a rhetorical question or not, but I will try to answer it anyway. First, however, I'll give you some context for it.

Because I believe that recruiting matters, and that better players means better teams, I started closely tracking recruiting rankings back in about 2006 or so. I found three ratings, so I tracked them. I went in with the preconceived notion that the ratings would be imperfect predictors of performance, but that there would be some correlation to later results. I didn't know which service was the best, so I tracked all of them, as well as how many offers each player was reported to have.

Later, I decided to try to correlate the ratings to how the players later performed on the field, and was surprised by what I found. I found essentially no correlation at all between any of the ratings and later performance. I found that no rating service was better than the others - they all sucked. About 2012 or so I decided, well, if these services all suck, maybe I'll try my own eyes. I can't do any worse. So, about 2012 I started watching video on all the recruits myself, and giving each recruit a rating. How am I doing? It's still too early to tell. My ratings for 2012 were very good, actually, and significantly more accurate than the ratings services. My ratings for 2013 were horrible. It's still to early to tell on 2014-15. So, what does that tell us? That my rating of Maxwell could be right, or not, but that it has no particular credibility.

So, now on to your question, what do I like about him. These are things that I see as positives:
1. He has the size. He's not 6'0.5" and 180lbs, which is what Ohio continually recruited under Gdowski. He's 6'3" and 214.
2. He hustles. In fact, he one a hustle award in Basketball
3. He not only doesn't appear afraid to run, when he runs, he looks like he relishes it.
4. He's fast.
5. He has a powerful arm - most of the passes in his highlights were soft passes, but a few he had to throw hard, and he did, and showed he has plenty of arm strength

Now the negative. As you point out, his passing stats were very unimpressive. I tend to disregard that because he played on bad team. On a bad team the blocking won't be good, and that will mean a number of off-balance throws, and those will hurt the stats. It will also mean that the receivers will not get open, and will drop passes when they do get open.

The result was that I decided to treat the stats as meaningless, and trust my eyes on what I saw, and I liked what I saw. Now, over the next year or three I will eventually be proved right, or wrong, so we'll have to see. In the meantime, if you haven't watched the hudl for Maxwell, why not watch it, and keep an open mind. After you watch it, why not report back on what you like and don't like?



ok great analysis, I hope you are right.


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/23/2015 7:23:06 AM 
allen wrote:
ok great analysis, I hope you are right.

I hope I am, too, but until I see him play as a Bobcat, it's just a hope. One way in which your rating is right is this: Playing as a QB for a bad team, in a bad conference, with bad linemen, bad receivers, and probably bad schemes not only led him to have only 100 yards/game of passing, it also didn't prepare him at all for play in in FBS. He has a LOT to learn. There was no circumstance that I could imagine where he would have come in ready to play as a true Freshman. I'm not sure he'll be ready to play next year, either.

My hope is that he'll have enough potential that he'll get some spot duty next fall, and play well enough in that duty to earn more time, and then be ready to start in 2017. Of course, if things happen that way, we'll get threads all fall that "Maxwell should start". ;)


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/23/2015 9:46:14 AM 
There is nothing for the casual fan to use to project how well Maxwell will do as a QB in Athens.

However if you ever watched his pre-game warm up before a home game, it is amazing.

Outstanding size, build and throwing motion, accuracy and arm strength! Big physical guy who appears to be an incredibly gifted athlete.

That and $4.00 will get you a nice cup of joe at Starbucks.

Merry Christmas to my fellow BA'ers.
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C Money
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Member Since: 8/28/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/23/2015 10:02:02 AM 
L.C. wrote:
Of course, if things happen that way, we'll get threads all fall that "Maxwell should start". ;)



I'll start that thread. If he's the QB of the future, let's see how he does now.

If he's good enough, move some of the guys down the depth charts into other positions where they may be able to contribute. Duckworth screams TE/H-back to me, and Krizancic has been mentioned as a DB.



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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/23/2015 10:55:55 AM 
ytownbobcat wrote:
There is nothing for the casual fan to use to project how well Maxwell will do as a QB in Athens.

However if you ever watched his pre-game warm up before a home game, it is amazing.

Outstanding size, build and throwing motion, accuracy and arm strength! Big physical guy who appears to be an incredibly gifted athlete.

That and $4.00 will get you a nice cup of joe at Starbucks.

Merry Christmas to my fellow BA'ers.

Thanks for that post. You saw the same things in person that I (thought I) saw in his video. He still needs to lean the plays, lean to read FBS level defenses, and learn his reads, but he has the things you can't teach. I hope we are both right.

Merry Christmas.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/24/2015 11:00:19 AM 
ytownbobcat wrote:
There is nothing for the casual fan to use to project how well Maxwell will do as a QB in Athens.

However if you ever watched his pre-game warm up before a home game, it is amazing.

Outstanding size, build and throwing motion, accuracy and arm strength! Big physical guy who appears to be an incredibly gifted athlete.

That and $4.00 will get you a nice cup of joe at Starbucks.

Merry Christmas to my fellow BA'ers.


I find it hard to make a judgement on a player because his "warm ups" look good. A lot of guys can look good in warm ups and do nothing once the ball is kicked off and vice versa. I hope he's as good as people hope.

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/24/2015 12:20:04 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
ytownbobcat wrote:
There is nothing for the casual fan to use to project how well Maxwell will do as a QB in Athens.

However if you ever watched his pre-game warm up before a home game, it is amazing.

Outstanding size, build and throwing motion, accuracy and arm strength! Big physical guy who appears to be an incredibly gifted athlete.

That and $4.00 will get you a nice cup of joe at Starbucks.

Merry Christmas to my fellow BA'ers.


I find it hard to make a judgement on a player because his "warm ups" look good. A lot of guys can look good in warm ups and do nothing once the ball is kicked off and vice versa. I hope he's as good as people hope.


+1


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/24/2015 3:42:33 PM 
I think you missed my point. His warm ups are all we have to judge his talent level. It is essentially unreliable and hence the Starbucks comment.

I am really surprised that I need to explain this again since my post on this was so brief.

Are you guys into the eggnog already?

Last Edited: 12/24/2015 4:28:47 PM by ytownbobcat

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/25/2015 7:57:48 AM 
ytownbobcat wrote:
I think you missed my point. His warm ups are all we have to judge his talent level. It is essentially unreliable and hence the Starbucks comment.

I am really surprised that I need to explain this again since my post on this was so brief.

Are you guys into the eggnog already?

I understood your post, and thought it was very clear. It's a nice addition to what I saw on the high school video, but nothing more than that. If he can't throw the ball well in warmups, he isn't going to be able to throw it in games. If he's small on the sidelines, he'll be small in games. But, just because he's big, fast, and can throw the ball, that doesn't make him a QB. It's nice, but it's just a start.

Can he read defenses? Can he make smart decisions? Is he a leader? Does he have that "it" factor that enables him to win close games?




“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/26/2015 2:13:39 AM 
Amazing that we're told to go on the warm-up, eyeball test for this qb but the actual game experience of our leading YPC running back has people okay with Solich and staff not playing this running back.


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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/26/2015 12:52:35 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Amazing that we're told to go on the warm-up, eyeball test for this qb but the actual game experience of our leading YPC running back has people okay with Solich and staff not playing this running back.


???
I don't see your point. Irons passes the eyeball test, so I think he will be good. Maxwell passes it, so I think he'll be good, too. Are you saying that, if Maxwell passes your eyeball test, you're going to call for him to be the starter immediately, even if he isn't the best player today?


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/26/2015 1:50:55 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Amazing that we're told to go on the warm-up, eyeball test for this qb but the actual game experience of our leading YPC running back has people okay with Solich and staff not playing this running back.


???
I don't see your point. Irons passes the eyeball test, so I think he will be good. Maxwell passes it, so I think he'll be good, too. Are you saying that, if Maxwell passes your eyeball test, you're going to call for him to be the starter immediately, even if he isn't the best player today?


You're aware, LC, that only Monroe's eyeballs can truly see?

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/26/2015 1:53:30 PM 


Irons was good, should have played. To our painful, unthinking detriment that he didn't.

DFC--words cannot express how we all feel about your posts.


Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/26/2015 1:55:36 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Irons was good, should have played. To our painful, unthinking detriment that he didn't.

DFC--words cannot express how we all feel about your posts.



Objection. You're speculating.

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/26/2015 5:20:13 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Irons was good, should have played. To our painful, unthinking detriment that he didn't.

DFC--words cannot express how we all feel about your posts.


I'm just curious, but how many additional games a year would you be willing to lose by playing players who might be great someday before they are ready?


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/26/2015 11:18:32 PM 
Irons.


Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/26/2015 11:20:29 PM 
Games lost by not playing the right players.


Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/27/2015 12:00:02 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Games lost by not playing the right players.


Speculation is neither the same as knowledge or wisdom.


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Lande71
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/27/2015 7:53:36 AM 
I sure hope Irons is the real deal and performs like the all-American he's being made out to be on limited action. If he fails, there will be a lot of crowe to eat on here. I remember watching Beau his Jr. Season and thinking he was something fantastic. His performance his last yr. really changed for the worse. I know the off. Line changed as well, but I get the feeling Irons can do it all regardless of how good the line is by what I've read in here for months.
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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: QB
   Posted: 12/27/2015 11:55:59 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Irons was good, should have played. To our painful, unthinking detriment that he didn't.

DFC--words cannot express how we all feel about your posts.



Monroe,

Get over it ... Irons did not play for a reason. There's more to how much time a player sees than just his ability.

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