BobcatAttack.com - For Fans of Ohio University Sports

Welcome Guest!
Create an Account

site search

where to watch

about us

advertise with us

help

BobcatAttack.com Message Board

Ohio Football Recruiting

Topic: RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Topic: RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Author

Message

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/13/2014 10:12:31 AM

Wrap this class up and put a bow on it. Topping it off with the last few recruits that are 3-4 star players in my opinion makes this group look like the best yet.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Campus Flow
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,952

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/14/2014 12:04:34 PM

L.C. wrote:

Wrap this class up and put a bow on it. Topping it off with the last few recruits that are 3-4 star players in my opinion makes this group look like the best yet.

And we are up to 18 with Sam Knight on the roster. 19 if that CC guy signs.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/14/2014 4:02:21 PM

Well, there were a couple DT/DE types with offers, and a couple OT guys with offers. It's hard to know if the offers were first come-first served, or if they were looking for more than one additional player. It's hard to know if we are at 17, 18, or more than that.

Normally there is some attrition, usually 2-3 or so spaces, but this year the attrition seems to be about 2-3 times higher.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,895

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/15/2014 9:33:20 AM

Hey, situation, how many MAC Championships have our 2-star and NR guys won? And, I have a feeling WMU is a lot closer to a MAC game/championship than us.

It really is rather simple, just look at how many 3-star recruits any of the better programs recruit. They have probably 2/3 of their classes in 3-star guys then add just a few 4 and 5-star guys to go along with a few 2-star guys.

You know, sometimes you learn a lot when you look at what better programs are doing. And, I don't necessarily mean Top 20 teams. it's the Cincinnati's, UK's, and others that we could be "like" that do this. I would much rather be in the TOP 3 in recruiting in the MAC rather than about #8. I think we get a lot out of our talent but why not start with even better talent and get much more out of them?

Last Edited: 12/15/2014 9:38:12 AM by Casper71

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/15/2014 11:34:00 AM

To extend, Casper71's thought: How many of the guys we've signed (or will) would be notable if signed by such as NIU, WMU, Toledo...let alone Cinci, or Nebraska or the like? How jumping for joy would those schools be to have our incoming class?

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/15/2014 1:55:51 PM

Back to the 3-star question again? OK, here is the percentage of Ohio's players with at least one 3-star rating, by year:

2005 4% (Brandon Jones)
2006 17% (Hodge, McCrae, Hubbard)
2007 9% (O'Hara, Strum)
2008 30% (Bussey, Britain, G. Moore, Tafua, Dawson, B. Jackson)
2009 27% (Lechner, Hughes, J. Davis, Edmond, Fortune, Woseley)
2010 18% (Kozak, Tarrant, Blake Jones)
2011 50% (Russell, L.Smith, Crutcher, Price, T. Davis, Welter, Fisher, Haser, Hammonds, Bennett, Purdum, Powell)
2012 53% (Edmond, Wade Wells, Gibbons, S. Smith, Watson, Schany, Windham, Tanner, Laseak, Patterson)
2013 27% (Wyatt, Quallen, Murdock, Alexander, Morgan, Cedric Brown)
2014 29% (Lowery, Duckworth, McCray, Walker, Brunson, Connor Brown, Dudziak)
2015 50% (Hagen, Howell, Ball, Fair, T. Williams, M. Williams, Cloud, Rangolam, Glasco)

Would you say that these have been Ohio's best recruits each year? As I look over this list, I'm struck by how many turned out to be duds, either transfers, guys with injury issues, or who for one reason or another, or who just never played. As an interesting contrast, let's look at the NR guys for the last few years, the ones that got no ratings higher than the lowest possible rating:
2011 (McQueen, Curtis, J. Johnson, Bass, Lucas)
2012 (W. Johnson, Blair Brown, Rodriguez, Reid)
2013 (Poling, Mangen, Cope, Aloese, McLeod)
2014 (DiCillo, Pruehs, Irons, Langenkamp, Fox, Brunis, Nelson, Bonnstetter, Boland)

OK, lets see which group was better, by looking at the percentage of each group that was a contributor:
2011, 3-star players 42% contributed, unrated players, 80% contributed
2012, 3-star players 40% contributed, unrated players 75% contributed
2013, 3-star players 50% contributed, unrated players 100% contributed
2014, 3-star players 57% contributed, unrated players 56% contributed

I think it's pretty clear that over the last 4 years the unrated players have been substantially better than the 3-star players. Honestly, I don't think anyone can look at these names an not agree with that statement.

The good news is that the staff seems to be improving, and they are being more selective about the 3-star players, and are getting better ones, ones that actually contribute. They continue to be able to find some very good unrated players, though, and I hope that continues.

As an interesting note, the position that got the most compliments this year on BA, without a doubt, had to be linebacker, where everyone agrees that Ohio is set for awhile to come. Interestingly, all three of the starters can be found on the unrated list. Similarly, 2 of the 3 WR that Paul wants to see on the field full time are on that list, along with the starter at TE, and 3 of the 5 starters on the OL.

Last Edited: 12/15/2014 2:35:13 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,895

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/15/2014 3:54:18 PM

L.C., I don't see how anyone can have an arguement about going after and signing more 3-star guys. I've said we need at least 10 a year or 2/3 of the recruited class to move up the ladder. I repeat, do any of you look at how many three star guys the numbers 25-40 schools sign? It is much like the numbers I am talking about. It is the same with the Top guys. They sign more 3-star guys than 4/5-star guys. I would surmise that maybe the 3-star guys we go after are low 3-star guys that even the #25-40 schools are not after.

Again, I say, look at a current Top 40 program (and UC is a good example) and look at the NUMBER and % of their class that is 3-star quality. That is why they are now light years ahead of our #92 (or whatever number) program that even the situation says we were last year.

It's as simple as starting with a better base.

Late update from Scout:

Toledo: 13/22 3-star guys
WMU: 15/28 3-star guys
CMU: 12/18 3-star guys
NIU: 12/21 3-star guys
Miami: 12/22 3-star guys

Ohio:5/14 3-star guys and #11 class of 13 MAC sc hools.

Jeesh, now wonder the West is light years ahead of the East!

Last Edited: 12/15/2014 4:04:46 PM by Casper71

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/15/2014 4:06:06 PM

If you look at the list of players that Ohio offers, they do go after 3 and 4 star recruits. The problem is that the 4-star players, and the high 3-star players generally have lots of P5 offers, and Ohio isn't able to get very many of them. Instead, they apparently get a fair number of 3-star players with grade issues, off-the-field issues, injury issues, or players that are just low 3-star players.

I personally think it's better 3-star players that Ohio needs, not more 3-star players. I just want guys that are players, players that end contributing, regardless of whether they are 3-star players or NR players. Last year's class seems to be full of those, as was 2013, and 2015 looks like it will, also.\

As for the other schools, it would be interesting to look back at their recent years to see if they 3-star players they are getting are actually good, or if they have the same problem Ohio has. I do know that most of the recent draft picks from the MAC have been NR players.

Last Edited: 12/15/2014 4:10:21 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,895

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/15/2014 4:26:38 PM

Yep L.C., I do agree it is not just the stars but good players. My point is the higher the stars the higher the probability a guy is a better player. As for the results, I look for the MAC West to be really dominant for as long as they are getting those 12-15 3-star guys as opposed to those of us in the East getting 5-6-7.

The Optimist
General User

Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,552

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/15/2014 5:46:35 PM

With the addition of the Glenville defensive lineman, that is another defensive verbal from this class who had a major offer (GT)

Feeling excited about this defense.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 12:02:51 AM

L.C. wrote:

I get the point that the NR's have worked out very well/best for us...but it's kinda disturbing to see the 2013 and 2014 3-star numbers so low when we were given to believe that recruiting really picked up after down 2010.

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 9:09:13 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Partly that's a function of an ebb-and-flow at ESPN, during 2013-2014 they seemed to stop doing evaluations of G5 players, so they rated almost none of them, but they have returned to rating G5 players again in 2015. It would be a lot easier to gain historical perspective if these services didn't keep changing how they do things every year.

In addition, I think that time will show that the services overrated the 2011 class, and underrated the 2013 class.

Last Edited: 12/16/2014 9:11:55 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,895

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 1:01:17 PM

L.C., could part of the problem be that you identify people with 3-stars from any ONE of the recruiting services? I just think if you keep it with one service you get a more consistent view of recruiting. I guess the question is: what one service does the best job of recruiting the players from the G5? I just used Scout this year because they seemed to have rated a lot of the MAC guys.

Last Edited: 12/16/2014 1:03:21 PM by Casper71

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 2:04:38 PM

Casper, there seem to be two problems. The first is that none of them seem to be any more accurate than the others. If one was better, I'd just use that one.

The other problem is that they all change constantly. Here are some things I've seen:
1. Rivals - A decade ago, they were honest and rated people they didn't know as 4.9, and 2-star recruits were rated from 5.0 to 5.4. In those days they also did a good job of rating all the people, plus as I said, they were honest about the ones they didn't rate. Then later they inflated all scores, and the minimum became 5.2, whether they look at his film or not. In recent years they don't even seem to bother with MAC recruits unless the information dumps into their lap. This year they only have listed half of Ohio's recruits, and the other half they will probably list on the last day, and rate them all 5.2, which could mean they looked and don't think much of them, but more probably it means they aren't going to bother looking at film.

2. Scout.com - Again, they used to be honest in indicating who they had rated, and who they hadn't rated. Non rated players were simply no stars, while everyone else was 1 to 4 stars. Then they inflated the scores, and everyone is 2 stars. You can sort of tell who they actually looked at because they have a "national ranking". So far they have looked at 5 of Ohio's recruits. At this point they are better than Rivals because they at least make an effort to list Ohio's recruits, but you can't reach any sort of conclusion from their information. Right now Ohio has five 3-star recruits, who happen to be the five players they are known to have looked at. Would Ohio have sixteen 3-star recruits if they looked at sixteen recruits? Possibly, but there is no way to know. If they don't ever get around to looking at all the recruits, how can you reach any conclusions from their ratings?

3. ESPN - This one started up about 2006. They made an effort to rate the players for everyone, and to cover the MAC. Then they pretty much dropped non-P5 coverage. In their class rankings, they only rank the top 25 classes, and they have minimal information on other teams. Now, this year they seem to have put a little effort back into rating MAC players again, and you see a lot more players for all the MAC teams that have "ratings" assigned. They have rated 8 Ohio players, and given 6 of them 3-star ratings. If they stayed like this, they would have some value, but odds are next year they will do something different.

4. 247Sports - These guys just popped up a couple years ago, and they made a concerted effort to rank all the players. This was looking like it was going to be the best service for MAC recruits by far. Unfortunately, after about this time last year, they simply stopped rating recruits, and dumped all the late class members in at their minimum. This year they picked up where they left off last year, leaving large numbers of players unrated.

Whenever the services change, and they all do, all the time, it makes historical comparisons impossible.

Ohio currently seems to have 18 recruits for this year, based on information from twitter. Here's where the services stand at the current time:
Recruits Identified
Rivals 9
Scout 15
ESPN 14
247Sports 16

Recruits that we know have been rated:
Rivals 7 (one 3-star)
Scout 5 (five 3-star)
ESPN 8 (six 3-star)
247Sports 5 (one 3-star)

Recruits list as minimum or NR
Rivals 2
Scout 10
ESPN 6
247Sports 11

...sooo, last year 247Sports was the best all year at getting the players rated, this year they are the worst. Last year ESPN was the worst, only rating 4 of 24 players, and this year they are the best, with 8 players rated. Rivals does a poor job of identifying recruits, but at least they try to rate them after they ID them.

In the end I'm not impressed by any of these services. In fairness, they all know where their revenue and click-throughs come from, they come from the P5, so that's where they put their attention. Rating players for the MAC is an afterthought, if they do it at all. I guess we should be grateful for any attention we get, but honestly, I question how accurate any conclusion you would reach from their data.

It would be nice if there was a service that actually tried to rate every MAC recruit, but more typically, by the end of the year, no service seems to look at much more than about half the recruits. As a result, I think any conclusions you try to reach from this data is questionable at best. We are hungry for information, so we try to use what we have, but what he have isn't very accurate, in my opinion.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 2:29:26 PM

Here are lists of three star recruits by service. You tell me which service you think is the most accurate:
Rivals (23) - Hubbard, Hodge, Dawson, B. Jackson, G. Moore, Lechner, Hughes, Fortune, Woseley, Omar Leftwich, Kozak, Russell, Price, Welter, Fisher, Purdum, Gibbons, S. Smith, Schany, Murdock, Lowery, Duckworth, McCray

Scout (19) - Brandon Jones, McCrae, Dawson, B. Jackson (4 stars), Tafua, Lechner, L. Smith, T. Davis, Welter, Haser, Hammonds, Bennett, S. Smith, Alexander, Lowery, Duckworth, McCray, Brunson, Dudziak

ESPN (27) - Strum, O'Hara, Bussey, Britain, Lechner, Hughes, James Davis, Edmond, Tarrant, Blake Jones, Russell, Crutcher, Welter, Purdum, Venham, S. Smith, Watson, Schany, Windham, Tanner, Laseak, Patterson, Wyatt, Lowery, Duckworth, McCray, Walker

247Sports (12) - S. Smith, Windham, Laseak, Quallen, Murdock, Morgan, Cedric Brown, Lowery, Duckworth, McCray, Walker, Connor Brown

I'd call them all between 50 and 60% accurate, but maybe Rivals is slightly better. I note that some of them are erratic, pretty accurate some years, way off in others, which might reflect the effort, or lack thereof, that they put into it.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Bcat2
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 4,295

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 2:59:13 PM

Let me see. It seems Ohio just received a commit from Alex Alders, not rated by Rivals, who has six offers from Ohio, Toledo, W. Michigan and Colgate, Yale, Air Force. Taking him will ruin Ohio's Average Stars Per Recruit Rating. What do you do? Me, no question, bring him and every other like him you can find to Ohio.

I will bet Alex Alders accomplishes more for Ohio than a certain, Florida, 3 star, eight offer Ohio recruit from 2012.

Last Edited: 12/16/2014 3:23:31 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,895

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 3:33:41 PM

L.C., what a quandry? Bottom line: I'd still just pick one service (don't ask me which one) and use it. If they are consistent, at least they are consistently right or wrong for everyone:)

The real bottom line, you know I like STAR guys. But, if at the G5 level the reality is they just aren't that accurate I guess you can only rate the clsses based on results on the field.

I guess that's where we'd agree that 2-3-4-5 years ago the recruiting must not have been that good given our recents over thelast 3 years compared to the records after year 1 when this staff got a lot better results for a while.

Bcat2
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 4,295

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 3:51:14 PM

Sorry, I just don't see recruiting service stars as important. Do any of you seriously believe coach Dixon cares at all about a recruiting service rating of a recruit? Does anyone think coach Solich would dream of offering a scholarship based upon stars? Do recruiting services check academic records? Do recruiting services evaluate character?

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 4:30:41 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

Sorry, I just don't see recruiting service stars as important. ..

The ratings services aren't important. They just serve a function of giving us something to talk about in the off-season, and maybe a hint of things to come in the future.

Casper71 wrote:

That's why I ended up using the number of other offers that the players have. It isn't "stars", but it is consistent, and not subject to inflation. I also started watching all the film myself, and rating all the players myself back in 2012. I wish I could tell you that my ratings are great, and better than the services, but I miss my fair share of the time, too.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 8:15:56 PM

All District Awards:
SW District http://tinyurl.com/k5wwdn9
-Elijah Ball, 1st team, Division II
-Mayne Williams, 2d team, Division I

Central http://tinyurl.com/l4hm43v
-Clayton Glasco, 1st team, Division I
-Jake Hale, 2d team, Division I (defensive line)

Northwest http://tinyurl.com/kpa8j8c

NE Inland http://tinyurl.com/luklc7n
-Johvahn Fair - not listed
-Alex Alders - 1st team, Division II (offense)
-Evan Croutch - hon mention, Division II

NE Lakes http://tinyurl.com/m37xxlh
-Sam McKnight - 1st team, Division II
-London Cloud - 1st team, Division II
-Najee Stevens-McKenzie - Special Mention, Division II

Southeast http://tinyurl.com/k922owd
-Trae Williams - 1st team, Division III
-Austin Pleasants - 1st team, Division VI
(Adam Luehrman, Ryan Luehrman also 1st team)

Looking over the All-Ohio awards http://tinyurl.com/lgwbflz
Division I
-Clayton Glasco 2d team

Division II
-London Cloud 1st team

Division III
- Trae Williams 1st team

Division VI
-Austin Pleasants Spec Mention

-Sam McKnight 2d team
-Alex Alders spec mention

Last Edited: 12/16/2014 8:34:07 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Campus Flow
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,952

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/16/2014 11:02:17 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

Do recruiting services measure upside? Potential is more important in a 5 year system. Use of personnel and technique overrides talent outside of the very top programs.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,895

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/18/2014 9:49:49 AM

L.C., you probably do better than most of the recruiting services. One final comment, you could probably divide the 3-star guys into high and low. The high ones are the ones with a bunch of P5 offers. The lower 3-star guys are more the MAC types.

So, I guess from now on I will have to say I am looking for us to offer and sign guys that have more P5 offers. And, I bet people will be happy with me if I get off the 3-star bandwagon:)

Last Edited: 12/19/2014 10:06:03 AM by Casper71

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 12/24/2014 12:38:32 AM

I like DISRUPTIVEDEFENSIVELINEMEN and CAN'TSTOPTHATTIGHTENDS.

I am not concerned about stars.

I am concerned about MACC.

C Money
General User

Member Since: 8/28/2010
Post Count: 3,420

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 1/19/2015 9:59:19 AM

Going by Ted's chart, as it stands today:

_______Current______Recruits________Total
QB_______ 5____________ 1___________ 6
RB_______ 5____________ 0___________ 5
FB_______ 0____________ 0___________ 0
WR______ 9____________ 3___________ 12
TE_______ 5____________ 0___________ 5
OL______ 13___________ 4___________ 17
K _______ 1____________ 0___________ 1

DT_______ 3____________ 2___________ 5
DE_______ 7____________ 1___________ 8
ILB_______1____________ 3___________ 4
OLB______5____________ 1___________ 6
CB_______ 8____________ 1___________ 9
S _______ 5____________ 2___________ 7
P _______ 1____________ 0___________ 1

Total:____68___________18___________ 86

That's one more than we can have on scholarship, so someone we don't know about will be gone by fall.

Last Edited: 1/19/2015 10:05:14 AM by C Money

Ted Thompson
Administrator

Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: MAC Play
Post Count: 7,395

Status: Offline

RE: 2015 Ohio Football Commits

Posted: 1/19/2015 11:29:09 AM

C Money wrote:

Or someone may not show in the Fall. Everyone always sweats the numbers but we always seem to end up in the low 80's before heading to Camp.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

Showing Replies:	51 - 75 of 117 Posts
Jump to Page:	< Previous 1 \| 2 \| 3 \| 4 \| 5 Next >

View Other 'Ohio Football Recruiting' Topics

There are 192 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com

191 Guests
1 Registered User:
	Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

There are no other users looking at this page.