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Topic:  MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.

Topic:  MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/18/2020 11:01:47 AM 
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29907720...
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/19/2020 2:48:35 PM 
No vote today. They'll meet again next week. The Blade reports that they're considering a 6-8 game schedule possibly beginning Oct 24. https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29920009...


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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/19/2020 3:24:26 PM 
Is it possible some of the issue for the MAC is financial related?
Schools off the hook until the spring. It gave them time to create a football format that would have a lower cost.
If the largest piece is the coaches salaries, then I guess it doesn't matter.
If they opt for 6 games then maybe it is due to trying to keep costs low.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/19/2020 3:52:33 PM 
I'm not an expert here but this requires thinking well beyond just what it takes to play football. If you treat the football players differently than the rest of the students it complicates future legal arguments that they are employees rather than just students. If they get sick while you are making money off of them and you know you are putting them in a precarious position with their long term health you put yourself in future jeopardy if lawsuits like the NFL did with concussions. It is what separates the Division 1 football and basketball issues form high school and is why the NCAA wanted everyone to wait even if the SEC and ACC were having none of that. It was a no win situation for major college athletics. Nobody argues that most high school players are more employee than student.

In some ways by delaying the Big Ten, Pac 12, MAC, and MWC protected themselves from lawsuits by acknowledging the health issues and showing that they wanted to make it better. But in another way it puts you in more jeopardy as the SEC could claim ignorance (even though I think that argument would probably go nowhere) the Big Ten obviously can't now. So they couldn't start unless there was clear reason to show that things are different now than when the original decision was made. The MAC also, I don't think, can just restart without medical experts satisfying the legal experts that they can make an argument that that have clear reason to believe they can get it under better control than they could a couple of months ago.

The Big Ten is going to spend massively on testing. For the MAC the problem is not only the logistics of this, but in a year with no payout game, maybe no ticket revenue, and probably even less TV revenue than usual if you do play, is also the cost of that.

If there was no decision today I'd bet if they do play before spring it will be starting Oct. 31 with only 6 games. I have always thought that a spring season might only be 6 games as well since there is so little recovery time before fall.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/19/2020 3:58:54 PM 
ytownbobcat wrote:
Is it possible some of the issue for the MAC is financial related?
Schools off the hook until the spring. It gave them time to create a football format that would have a lower cost.
If the largest piece is the coaches salaries, then I guess it doesn't matter.
If they opt for 6 games then maybe it is due to trying to keep costs low.


I think it's a big issue. The cost of testing, I've seen an average of $352 per test kit. B10 requires every athlete, coach, trainer and anyone else who would be on the field to be tested daily. With maybe more than 100 people being tested daily, that could be more than $35,000 per day. I don't know whether the med school can make their own kits, but even if they can there would still be costs involved for materials.


We will get by.
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We will survive.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/19/2020 4:10:33 PM 
What about the other sports? Lawsuit waiting to happen especially in terms of title IX.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/19/2020 7:40:25 PM 
This is all about 2 holdouts... niu in particular, whose president is dead set against playing.
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/19/2020 8:56:18 PM 
If they can get the rapid tests the big 10 s going to use my understanding that is going to be less then $10 a test.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/19/2020 9:29:43 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
ytownbobcat wrote:
Is it possible some of the issue for the MAC is financial related?
Schools off the hook until the spring. It gave them time to create a football format that would have a lower cost.
If the largest piece is the coaches salaries, then I guess it doesn't matter.
If they opt for 6 games then maybe it is due to trying to keep costs low.


I think it's a big issue. The cost of testing, I've seen an average of $352 per test kit. B10 requires every athlete, coach, trainer and anyone else who would be on the field to be tested daily. With maybe more than 100 people being tested daily, that could be more than $35,000 per day. I don't know whether the med school can make their own kits, but even if they can there would still be costs involved for materials.

Hmm, I saw a price of $5 a test for the Abbot test, and i've seen talk of tests being developed that will be in the $1 range.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/19/2020 9:44:05 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:
If they can get the rapid tests the big 10 s going to use my understanding that is going to be less then $10 a test.


Anyone have info on how many tests have to be given for a given team?

Does it have some variance from conference to conference etc.?

Just curious how large of a scale the testing is done on.


Ohio-The State University

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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/20/2020 3:16:16 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
What about the other sports? Lawsuit waiting to happen especially in terms of title IX.

Good point. I expect they are getting legal advice on how to proceed.If tests are as inexpensive as noted here then I think all sports will get the green light.
Where is the largest fall sports outlay after football? Soccer, Cross country, golf?

Talking about lawsuits is the greatest fear (risk) in not properly protecting athletes against CoVid or discrimination based on gender bias by sport?
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/20/2020 5:30:13 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
ytownbobcat wrote:
Is it possible some of the issue for the MAC is financial related?
Schools off the hook until the spring. It gave them time to create a football format that would have a lower cost.
If the largest piece is the coaches salaries, then I guess it doesn't matter.
If they opt for 6 games then maybe it is due to trying to keep costs low.


I think it's a big issue. The cost of testing, I've seen an average of $352 per test kit. B10 requires every athlete, coach, trainer and anyone else who would be on the field to be tested daily. With maybe more than 100 people being tested daily, that could be more than $35,000 per day. I don't know whether the med school can make their own kits, but even if they can there would still be costs involved for materials.

Hmm, I saw a price of $5 a test for the Abbot test, and i've seen talk of tests being developed that will be in the $1 range.


They probably charge $352 for tests paid for by health insurance and the lower prices for tests that aren't.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/20/2020 7:51:20 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
ytownbobcat wrote:
Is it possible some of the issue for the MAC is financial related?
Schools off the hook until the spring. It gave them time to create a football format that would have a lower cost.
If the largest piece is the coaches salaries, then I guess it doesn't matter.
If they opt for 6 games then maybe it is due to trying to keep costs low.


I think it's a big issue. The cost of testing, I've seen an average of $352 per test kit. B10 requires every athlete, coach, trainer and anyone else who would be on the field to be tested daily. With maybe more than 100 people being tested daily, that could be more than $35,000 per day. I don't know whether the med school can make their own kits, but even if they can there would still be costs involved for materials.

Hmm, I saw a price of $5 a test for the Abbot test, and i've seen talk of tests being developed that will be in the $1 range.


They probably charge $352 for tests paid for by health insurance and the lower prices for tests that aren't.


My company pays $100 per test for uninsured employees.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/20/2020 9:05:31 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
They probably charge $352 for tests paid for by health insurance and the lower prices for tests that aren't.

I think it's a matter of different test types. The PCR tests require a full lab analysis. Those are the expensive ones, and $352 sounds about right. Then there are the quick result tests. Some of those require a machine, such as those for Athens-based Quidel. They sell a machine for something like $50,000 to places like Urgent Care clinics, plus a variety of tests, including tests for Covid, the flu, etc. The clinic's cost for a test is something in the $10-30 range, I think. What they charge is another story, but an Athletic Department could certainly buy a machine, and then purchase the test kits directly.

I believe the Abbot test may or may not also require a machine. I don't know. I do know that an article said the wholesale test price was $5. Note that that is just for the test, and doesn't include the nurse to take the nasal swabs, nor the handling, nor the machine, nor the facilities, etc. If you are going to be doing hundreds of tests a day, though, it may be cheaper to do your own tests than to pay someone else to do them for you.

Finally, there are some tests in development that are very different from the ones mentioned above. Those are designed to be sold to end users. The end user spits on a strip of paper, puts it in a test tube with some chemical, and shakes it up, and a few minutes later has the result. Those tests are being developed with the hope that they can be sold for $1 each. Note that they are not as sensitive. It takes a higher viral load to get a positive result. Thus, it won't be positive in the first day or two after exposure, and it won't be positive late in the infection. However, it WILL be positive during the time the person has a high enough viral load to be contagious. The goal for these tests is that, for example, all students could be tested every morning, and you could avoid cases spread at school.

It is very difficult to compare costs on tests because there are so many types of tests out there. As an example, one of Quidel's test not only tests for Covid, but with a single test tests for Covid, the flu, and a couple other things. That enables an Urgent Care clinic to do one test, and then be able to diagnose multiple different possible reasons for the patient's symptoms.

Last Edited: 9/20/2020 9:33:34 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/20/2020 11:40:52 PM 
The cost in July was $25k For the entire fall sports teams. Not much has changed, insurance will only pay if there is a reason for the test, which the proposed testing would not be covered by insurance.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/21/2020 8:56:17 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
The cost in July was $25k For the entire fall sports teams. Not much has changed, insurance will only pay if there is a reason for the test, which the proposed testing would not be covered by insurance.


Feels like a bargain. How many fall student athletes are there? And any idea how frequent the testing regimen was intended to be?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/21/2020 9:15:48 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
The cost in July was $25k For the entire fall sports teams. Not much has changed, insurance will only pay if there is a reason for the test, which the proposed testing would not be covered by insurance.


Feels like a bargain. How many fall student athletes are there? And any idea how frequent the testing regimen was intended to be?


Sorry, that was $25,000.00 per WEEK!
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/21/2020 9:17:09 AM 
I doubt very much we'll be able to play this fall. 2-3 schools against it, one for safety reasons, the others for financial reasons. Perhaps this is a wake-up call to core members (Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Ball, Buff, Kent, Western, CMU) that it's time to reconstitute with schools that are committed to FBS.


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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/21/2020 9:21:26 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
The cost in July was $25k For the entire fall sports teams. Not much has changed, insurance will only pay if there is a reason for the test, which the proposed testing would not be covered by insurance.


Feels like a bargain. How many fall student athletes are there? And any idea how frequent the testing regimen was intended to be?


Sorry, that was $25,000.00 per WEEK!


Oh, I see. Yeah, that makes way more sense.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/21/2020 10:59:09 AM 
SBH wrote:
I doubt very much we'll be able to play this fall. 2-3 schools against it, one for safety reasons, the others for financial reasons. Perhaps this is a wake-up call to core members (Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Ball, Buff, Kent, Western, CMU) that it's time to reconstitute with schools that are committed to FBS.




MWC might go without Hawaii, Fresno, AFA, maybe some others. CUSA is on despite ODU begging off. Any word on whether the MAC might go without some teams?


We will get by.
We will get by.
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We will survive.

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ou79
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/21/2020 11:23:40 AM 
Just go ahead and play this Fall for whoever wants to participate and run a 6-8 game schedule with fellow MAC teams. Like someone said, other conferences either currently are or are looking at schedules that do not include all of the conference/league teams. Not to be a pessimist but I do not think waiting until after the start of 2021 that anything will get better. Secondly, if the MAC is not going with Fall ball, just drop the football season and announce that MAC football will be back in the Fall of 2021.
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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/21/2020 4:29:05 PM 
SBH wrote:
I doubt very much we'll be able to play this fall. 2-3 schools against it, one for safety reasons, the others for financial reasons. Perhaps this is a wake-up call to core members (Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Ball, Buff, Kent, Western, CMU) that it's time to reconstitute with schools that are committed to FBS.




I have to agree. You can't let the leagues future rest with a few schools that don't have the resources to play football. I say move on without them.
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A-townBound
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/23/2020 12:18:33 PM 
Friday meeting-
https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2020/09/mid-america...


Bleed Green and GO OHIO!!

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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/23/2020 12:33:36 PM 
Just read in an ESPN article:

"OK, a lot of people are telling me these announcements have already happened or will happen as soon as Thursday of this week. What, you thought I was referring to the Big Ten and Pac-12? Poppycock! We're waiting on the MAC and Mountain West. Heck, we'd settle for just the MAC East and Mountain West West; or even the MAC West."


ESPN loves the MAC
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OhioBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC meeting on Saturday to discuss fall season.
   Posted: 9/23/2020 9:32:42 PM 
Sounds like they're voting on just a 6 game schedule. That's just 1 crossover game which is just too few games. It may as well only be 5 games vs division foes only. The 1 crossover game is going to put some teams at a big advantage and some at a big disadvantage based on who it it. You'd assume Toledo comes off the table for BG. The.1 crossover game isn't enough, 8 games would be good and 7 at minimum would be decent, but 6 may as well be 5. This seems rather stupid IMO.
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