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Topic:  RE: MAC Season Cancelled

Topic:  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/11/2020 11:10:48 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:
...
I just believe there is something else besides health concerns because if it was just health concerns then don't let the NFL Play. Don't let anyone play.
...

I think it's a little bit of all of those things. Certainly cost, safety, and the well-being of the athletes are all important. As for the NFL, they have far more money than MAC teams, plus they have highly paid athletes who may be willing to take the risk because they will be compensated for it. Your opinion seems to be that is should be everyone or no one. Does that make sense? Why can't you have one league, say the NFL, go first, and then if they show it can be done safely, let others follow this Spring?


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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boydhallbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/12/2020 8:29:04 AM 
Why is it such a bad thing that $$$ factored into the decision? My Facebook is littered with people complaining about the decision being focused around money. Isn't that EVERYTHING in this world? I am a teacher and I love my job, but if I wasn't making money, I wouldn't be teaching. Sure, I love the kids, just like I'm sure the universities love their kids, but if you can't make money, you can't justify moving forward.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/12/2020 9:24:16 AM 
L.C. wrote:

I think it's a little bit of all of those things. Certainly cost, safety, and the well-being of the athletes are all important. As for the NFL, they have far more money than MAC teams, plus they have highly paid athletes who may be willing to take the risk because they will be compensated for it. Your opinion seems to be that is should be everyone or no one. Does that make sense? Why can't you have one league, say the NFL, go first, and then if they show it can be done safely, let others follow this Spring?


The possibility of Spring football has been the hot topic of discussion among sports pundits out here.

Covid aside,Spring football presents a number of "issues" that make it unlikely.

1.Realistically,you can't have "Spring" football in January/February in most parts of the country.
Push it back,and you're ending in May/June.

Now you create a problem with players being ready for Summer workouts and Fall Camp.

2.Unless the NFL is willing to change their Draft date,which seems unlikely,Spring football can interfere with the NFL combine,Pro Days and the Draft itself.

3.Why would top prospects risk injury to play in the Spring ?

Most of the sports people I've heard or read believe that,especially if
some conferences,like the SEC,play in the Fall,everyone else will just
hold off till next Fall.



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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/12/2020 9:42:11 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
L.C. wrote:

I think it's a little bit of all of those things. Certainly cost, safety, and the well-being of the athletes are all important. As for the NFL, they have far more money than MAC teams, plus they have highly paid athletes who may be willing to take the risk because they will be compensated for it. Your opinion seems to be that is should be everyone or no one. Does that make sense? Why can't you have one league, say the NFL, go first, and then if they show it can be done safely, let others follow this Spring?


The possibility of Spring football has been the hot topic of discussion among sports pundits out here.

Covid aside,Spring football presents a number of "issues" that make it unlikely.

1.Realistically,you can't have "Spring" football in January/February in most parts of the country.
Push it back,and you're ending in May/June.

Now you create a problem with players being ready for Summer workouts and Fall Camp.

2.Unless the NFL is willing to change their Draft date,which seems unlikely,Spring football can interfere with the NFL combine,Pro Days and the Draft itself.

3.Why would top prospects risk injury to play in the Spring ?

Most of the sports people I've heard or read believe that,especially if
some conferences,like the SEC,play in the Fall,everyone else will just
hold off till next Fall.





On point 1, that assumes that games are played in home stadiums. Conferences could also move to a bubble (or multiple bubble) approach focused on domes/warm climates.
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/12/2020 9:53:19 AM 
Thank, God, that we have stopped talking about the relationship between football and permanent head trauma, and now are only concerned about the possibility of permanent heart and lung issues.
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/12/2020 9:59:39 AM 
L.C. wrote:
SVAC83 wrote:
...
I just believe there is something else besides health concerns because if it was just health concerns then don't let the NFL Play. Don't let anyone play.
...

I think it's a little bit of all of those things. Certainly cost, safety, and the well-being of the athletes are all important. As for the NFL, they have far more money than MAC teams, plus they have highly paid athletes who may be willing to take the risk because they will be compensated for it. Your opinion seems to be that is should be everyone or no one. Does that make sense? Why can't you have one league, say the NFL, go first, and then if they show it can be done safely, let others follow this Spring?


I don't think spring ball or much of spring ball can be a thing. And no i don't think all or or none. I think it would be fine if you say NFL go first but couldn't you have NFL start see how it is going and even start your season October 1st. By then we would know how things were going with students on campus what the NFL had learned.

I am going through a situation now with my oldest daughter 22. We just had a argument this morning and my answer to her whining so your just going to quit because it is hard? Because you don't know the complete path or how it is going to end up is a reason to quit?

This is sort of how i see life. I see covid-19 and how we move forward the same way. That is all any of my posts are about. I just don't feel like you give up on something because it is hard. Now if you come up on a point and you say. OK this is the actual danger or this is the stumbling block until we have a fix for this we cant move forward. I totally get it. But most of the answers are there are too many unknowns?

I mean if someone could look forward and say OK we have this model and the model tells us if continue to have football we are going to have 1200 athletes test positive for covid and we think at least 2 are going to die. I would say OK. Let's not play it isn't safe. and if a report like that exists then i have no problem with shutting it down. I just don't think you shut it down without trying or without a medical forecast that spells doom and gloom but everything i am reading says basically we are not playing football because what we don't know.

We are told nursing homes are dangerous places for covid and they certainly are. And one case could kill a lot of people. But there are nursing homes that have had zero cases. so it can be done, My mother is in a nursing home with dementia. I go up and talk to her through her window we have had one outside visit. The nursing home has had zero cases. And they are a big community they have assisted living a rehab a regular nursing home and memory care.

They have taken great care of them and have had all kinds if extra activities where families cant come in.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/12/2020 10:00:11 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


1.Realistically,you can't have "Spring" football in January/February in most parts of the country.
Push it back,and you're ending in May/June.

Now you create a problem with players being ready for Summer workouts and Fall Camp.


On point 1, that assumes that games are played in home stadiums. Conferences could also move to a bubble (or multiple bubble) approach focused on domes/warm climates.


Trying to use the "bubble" approach creates its owns challenges:

1.Who pays the costs for players,coaches,stadiums etc. ?
You're talking about people having to go and stay in a "bubble" for an extended period .
You're also going to need a number of "bubbles" for a lot of people.
Unlike the NBA,you'd have a lot more teams,and a lot more players.

2.How do schools and towns make up the revenue if they don't have "home" games ?

3.Any "bubble" has to be set up to make sure the players and student support staff can keep up with their classes.

Several people suggested creating an "on campus" bubble for fall football.
Use athletic dorms and dining areas.
Restrict players,coaches and staff "after hours" activities.

According to sports radio out here,just that raised flags about costs.
Imagine the costs associated with a "bubble".
Maybe the B1G and schools like OSU could handle it.
MAC schools,don't think so.



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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/12/2020 2:23:42 PM 
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.

Last Edited: 8/12/2020 2:24:14 PM by cc-cat

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ZIPsCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/12/2020 9:01:34 PM 
boydhallbobcat wrote:
Why is it such a bad thing that $$$ factored into the decision? My Facebook is littered with people complaining about the decision being focused around money. Isn't that EVERYTHING in this world? I am a teacher and I love my job, but if I wasn't making money, I wouldn't be teaching. Sure, I love the kids, just like I'm sure the universities love their kids, but if you can't make money, you can't justify moving forward.


Because it's $$$ at the expense of public health and peoples potential life after surviving the infection.

I doubt you'd be in for teaching for the $$$ if you life was at a considerably higher risk (and I say that as a teacher myself). I love teaching, and I think we make a decent living. But I also know where to draw the line, and know I can make more money not teaching.

It's like saying the Titanic skimped on lifeboats because of the cost.
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Club Hyatt
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 11:34:52 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


1.Realistically,you can't have "Spring" football in January/February in most parts of the country.
Push it back,and you're ending in May/June.

Now you create a problem with players being ready for Summer workouts and Fall Camp.


On point 1, that assumes that games are played in home stadiums. Conferences could also move to a bubble (or multiple bubble) approach focused on domes/warm climates.


Trying to use the "bubble" approach creates its owns challenges:

1.Who pays the costs for players,coaches,stadiums etc. ?
You're talking about people having to go and stay in a "bubble" for an extended period .
You're also going to need a number of "bubbles" for a lot of people.
Unlike the NBA,you'd have a lot more teams,and a lot more players.

2.How do schools and towns make up the revenue if they don't have "home" games ?

3.Any "bubble" has to be set up to make sure the players and student support staff can keep up with their classes.

Several people suggested creating an "on campus" bubble for fall football.
Use athletic dorms and dining areas.
Restrict players,coaches and staff "after hours" activities.

According to sports radio out here,just that raised flags about costs.
Imagine the costs associated with a "bubble".
Maybe the B1G and schools like OSU could handle it.
MAC schools,don't think so.


There are food chain questions in all of this but the MAC is only 1 step up in the food chain from FCS as it is. P5 will try and use the power of the NCAA to mandate measures to save costs because they are the ones with the big bleeding.

College coaching salaries north of 2 million don't seem sustainable and if that is true than assistants can't be north of 1 million. Then it could push the G5 to cap out around 1 million. OU isn't even paying 1 million and where Frank and Boals are in the career cycle they aren't going to get cut for cheaper guys. It could hurt programs like Cincinnati that are paying up to keep up.

What the P5 don't want to do is put themselves in the position where they form their own super division of rules with 55 scholarships with unionized pay while the G5 has 85 and unlimited salaries for players. They need to stay in control of the entire system. 55 schools in FBS have cancelled the season and nobody is going to pay attention to the other 75.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 12:22:36 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


Unionization of college "student-athletes" is a bridge too far for me. I've already lost interest in all professional sports.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 1:01:16 PM 
SBH wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


Unionization of college "student-athletes" is a bridge too far for me. I've already lost interest in all professional sports.



You can always just go down to the YMCA and watch a bunch of people play for the love of the game.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 1:49:01 PM 
You know, the sad thing is, I don't even care about this stuff anymore.

The details, that is.

Would love to see college sports survive this in a format somewhat comparable to the current system, but I am not that optimistic.

I am glad that there is a ton of previously played games on youtube. I've been enjoying North Dakota State Bison football. Get your horns up!!!

One thing I've noticed is that football played on the FCS, Div II and Div III levels is still fun to watch. Same with basketball and other sports. It's not the end of the world if college programs end up having to reconfigure spending and scholarships.
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ZIPsCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 6:16:27 PM 
SBH wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


Unionization of college "student-athletes" is a bridge too far for me. I've already lost interest in all professional sports.



Yeah god forbid the people who are generating $-billions in revenue for everyone else, be allowed a piece of the pie. What a ridiculous idea! Why would they ever be given a seat at the table!

Last Edited: 8/13/2020 6:17:39 PM by ZIPsCAT

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 6:45:59 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


You realize that most college athletes dont give a shit about this! And refuse to do what? 95% of all college athltics are cancelled, you think they should organize before they actually don't get to play because they feel its unsafe? That makes tons of sense.

They get financial compensation, its also in the for of a contract, and that contract is in excess many times at a higher value with their classmates. and they are allowed outside medical advise, and if they choose not to play, they still (get this radical concept!!!! Get their scholarship and compensation).
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 8:35:12 PM 
SBH wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


Unionization of college "student-athletes" is a bridge too far for me. I've already lost interest in all professional sports.



+1


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 8:38:05 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


You realize that most college athletes dont give a shit about this! And refuse to do what? 95% of all college athltics are cancelled, you think they should organize before they actually don't get to play because they feel its unsafe? That makes tons of sense.

They get financial compensation, its also in the for of a contract, and that contract is in excess many times at a higher value with their classmates. and they are allowed outside medical advise, and if they choose not to play, they still (get this radical concept!!!! Get their scholarship and compensation).


+1

I’m agreeing with both BTC and SBH in the same thread. Sign of the apocalypse?

Last Edited: 8/13/2020 8:38:38 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 9:29:21 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


You realize that most college athletes dont give a shit about this! And refuse to do what? 95% of all college athltics are cancelled, you think they should organize before they actually don't get to play because they feel its unsafe? That makes tons of sense.

They get financial compensation, its also in the for of a contract, and that contract is in excess many times at a higher value with their classmates. and they are allowed outside medical advise, and if they choose not to play, they still (get this radical concept!!!! Get their scholarship and compensation).


It may be that 95% of athletes don't care about this, but I think your assessment of athletes' leverage at the moment is way off. Schools are currently publicly announcing exactly how much a cancelled football season will cost them, and the financial woes of higher ed are well known.

The players will never have more leverage than they have when play resumes, whether that's this year or next. It's likely they don't care enough to act on it, but if they wanted to, the schools are up against a wall.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 9:53:59 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...
The players will never have more leverage than they have when play resumes, whether that's this year or next. It's likely they don't care enough to act on it, but if they wanted to, the schools are up against a wall.

Or, is it the reverse? One could argue that Universities will never have an easier time making the decision to eliminate sports than when play resumes.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 10:16:08 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


You realize that most college athletes dont give a shit about this! And refuse to do what? 95% of all college athltics are cancelled, you think they should organize before they actually don't get to play because they feel its unsafe? That makes tons of sense.

They get financial compensation, its also in the for of a contract, and that contract is in excess many times at a higher value with their classmates. and they are allowed outside medical advise, and if they choose not to play, they still (get this radical concept!!!! Get their scholarship and compensation).


It may be that 95% of athletes don't care about this, but I think your assessment of athletes' leverage at the moment is way off. Schools are currently publicly announcing exactly how much a cancelled football season will cost them, and the financial woes of higher ed are well known.

The players will never have more leverage than they have when play resumes, whether that's this year or next. It's likely they don't care enough to act on it, but if they wanted to, the schools are up against a wall.


Money that they turned around and spent, it’s not like they were making a profit.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 10:24:52 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
• they are permitted to unionize,
• have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
• Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


You realize that most college athletes dont give a shit about this! And refuse to do what? 95% of all college athltics are cancelled, you think they should organize before they actually don't get to play because they feel its unsafe? That makes tons of sense.

They get financial compensation, its also in the for of a contract, and that contract is in excess many times at a higher value with their classmates. and they are allowed outside medical advise, and if they choose not to play, they still (get this radical concept!!!! Get their scholarship and compensation).


It may be that 95% of athletes don't care about this, but I think your assessment of athletes' leverage at the moment is way off. Schools are currently publicly announcing exactly how much a cancelled football season will cost them, and the financial woes of higher ed are well known.

The players will never have more leverage than they have when play resumes, whether that's this year or next. It's likely they don't care enough to act on it, but if they wanted to, the schools are up against a wall.


Money that they turned around and spent, it’s not like they were making a profit.


They're allowed to make changes to how they spend it. Though, maybe the Life Skills Advisor OSU football paid 6 figures is essential?

Last Edited: 8/13/2020 10:28:49 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/13/2020 10:25:52 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...
The players will never have more leverage than they have when play resumes, whether that's this year or next. It's likely they don't care enough to act on it, but if they wanted to, the schools are up against a wall.

Or, is it the reverse? One could argue that Universities will never have an easier time making the decision to eliminate sports than when play resumes.


Seems extraordinarily unlikely that revenue sports will be eliminated at the P5 level.
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/14/2020 8:20:03 AM 
Couldn't they have waited to cancel the entire fall season till after the results from the vacations in Sturgis are known? Half naked chics and burley bikers spending lots of time together may have provided much evidence of those in close proximity.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/14/2020 2:06:53 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
All college athletes should refuse going into any kind of a bubble (on campus or off) until...
1 they are permitted to unionize,
2 have a contract in-place providing for financial compensation,
3 Are permitted to have outside medical staff and experts to advise them on the Covid and other health concerns.


You realize that most college athletes dont give a shit about this!


If you want to include diving, softball, and most other "Olympic" sports - perhaps. If you look at the revenue sports at the power 5 your number is drastically off. Plus you may want to keep a close eye on Colo St., Fla St., Syracuse, the Pac-12 and more. The concern for their health and the mistrust of the "adults" in the room will move points 1 and 3 forward. Can players look outside for health advice? Yeas, and we all know that such steps do not sit well with their coach nor administration.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Season Cancelled
   Posted: 8/14/2020 2:44:36 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...
The players will never have more leverage than they have when play resumes, whether that's this year or next. It's likely they don't care enough to act on it, but if they wanted to, the schools are up against a wall.

Or, is it the reverse? One could argue that Universities will never have an easier time making the decision to eliminate sports than when play resumes.


Seems extraordinarily unlikely that revenue sports will be eliminated at the P5 level.


Keep in mind that only perhaps 10-20 programs have a cash surplus from sports. If things are going to change due to Covid, or for other reasons, to make sports even less profitable, now would be an expected time for them to at least ask the question, "Are Sports a key mission of the University going forward?"


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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