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Topic:  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud

Topic:  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
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ts1227
General User

Member Since: 2/28/2006
Location: Massillon, OH
Post Count: 808

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/25/2019 8:48:32 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
Regardless of what people think of Fleck, the folks on national talk radio seem to be labeling Kill a sour grapes guy. Not surprised at all.


It's a bit of both...

Is Fleck kind of a douche? Yes.
Does Kill come off as sour grapes? Yes.

I don't get what he thought he was accomplishing by saying what he did.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 5,151

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/25/2019 11:14:10 PM 
ts1227 wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
Regardless of what people think of Fleck, the folks on national talk radio seem to be labeling Kill a sour grapes guy. Not surprised at all.


It's a bit of both...

Is Fleck kind of a douche? Yes.
Does Kill come off as sour grapes? Yes.

I don't get what he thought he was accomplishing by saying what he did.


Well, its obvious, he motivated people like OCFs extended family to say Fleckk is a bad guy
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finnOhio
General User

Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 603

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/26/2019 12:32:55 PM 
L.C. wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


Fox News is far closer to the concept of "balance" than CNN or MSNBC.

The sad thing is that news services keep getting more politicized each year. According this from 2014:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/10/21... /
Extreme Right: Breitbart, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck
Extreme Left: New Yorker, Al Jareeza, NPR, Colbert, NY Times

Right: Fox
Left: BuzzFeed, Huffington Post, Washington Post, Economist, Politico

Slight Right: Wall Street Journal, Yahoo
Slight Left: MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, Google, ABC, Bloomberg, ABC, USA Today

Closest to the center would be Yahoo, WSJ, CBS, ABC, USA Today, and Bloomberg


I suspect that if a similar study was done today, those on the left have moved further left, and those on the right have moved further right, and the center is even more desolate. Worse, those on the left think their new is unbiased, and those on the right think their news is unbiased, and neither seem to realize the extent that bias and opinion have replaced actual news. I would also point out that in 2014, while the number of services on the extreme left and extreme right are about equal, the number of news services on the left, or slight left vastly outnumber those on the right and slight right. I suspect that's true today as well.


I prefer NPR to all of these, and have that on my radio quite regularly. What stinks about those in the center according to your post are not the best in terms of journalism. I enjoy WSJ and I think CBS's 60 minutes is still very in-depth, but USA Today and Yahoo would be two of the last places I would go for news. Their reporting is minimal and weak at best. I think what really needs to be separated in all outlets is reporting vs. opinions. I think that the reporting at the NY Times is outstanding. The op eds are less so. Find it funny that Colbert is listed in the News outlets. While I can enjoy some of his stuff, I've never once considered him a news source.
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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 8,679

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/26/2019 1:41:42 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
L.C. wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


Fox News is far closer to the concept of "balance" than CNN or MSNBC.

The sad thing is that news services keep getting more politicized each year. According this from 2014:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/10/21... /
Extreme Right: Breitbart, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck
Extreme Left: New Yorker, Al Jareeza, NPR, Colbert, NY Times

Right: Fox
Left: BuzzFeed, Huffington Post, Washington Post, Economist, Politico

Slight Right: Wall Street Journal, Yahoo
Slight Left: MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, Google, ABC, Bloomberg, ABC, USA Today

Closest to the center would be Yahoo, WSJ, CBS, ABC, USA Today, and Bloomberg


I suspect that if a similar study was done today, those on the left have moved further left, and those on the right have moved further right, and the center is even more desolate. Worse, those on the left think their new is unbiased, and those on the right think their news is unbiased, and neither seem to realize the extent that bias and opinion have replaced actual news. I would also point out that in 2014, while the number of services on the extreme left and extreme right are about equal, the number of news services on the left, or slight left vastly outnumber those on the right and slight right. I suspect that's true today as well.


I prefer NPR to all of these, and have that on my radio quite regularly. What stinks about those in the center according to your post are not the best in terms of journalism. I enjoy WSJ and I think CBS's 60 minutes is still very in-depth, but USA Today and Yahoo would be two of the last places I would go for news. Their reporting is minimal and weak at best. I think what really needs to be separated in all outlets is reporting vs. opinions. I think that the reporting at the NY Times is outstanding. The op eds are less so. Find it funny that Colbert is listed in the News outlets. While I can enjoy some of his stuff, I've never once considered him a news source.

Note that this wasn't my opinion, just something I linked to from the Washington Post. I agree with you that Colbert is not a source for news, but neither are Hannity, Limbaugh, or Beck.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that what we need most is separation between news and opinion. The reason, I think, that even though NPR is extremely liberal, it isn't offensive, is that they make a conscious effort to separate news from opinion, and when they have an opinion piece (e.g. "All things considered"), they always try to include some perspective from the other side.

I think all News services would be better if they did both things, clearly separated news from opinions, and showed enough respect for the other side to include some explanation of their opinions. Failure to recognize the merit of contrary opinions is what leads us down the path we are on of incessant hostility and animosity towards each other, and leads to where we are seeing ever less respect for the concept of freedom of speech.


We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak. ― Epictetus

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Mike Johnson
General User



Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,385

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/26/2019 2:42:09 PM 
L.C. wrote:
finnOhio wrote:
L.C. wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


Fox News is far closer to the concept of "balance" than CNN or MSNBC.

The sad thing is that news services keep getting more politicized each year. According this from 2014:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/10/21... /
Extreme Right: Breitbart, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck
Extreme Left: New Yorker, Al Jareeza, NPR, Colbert, NY Times

Right: Fox
Left: BuzzFeed, Huffington Post, Washington Post, Economist, Politico

Slight Right: Wall Street Journal, Yahoo
Slight Left: MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, Google, ABC, Bloomberg, ABC, USA Today

Closest to the center would be Yahoo, WSJ, CBS, ABC, USA Today, and Bloomberg


I suspect that if a similar study was done today, those on the left have moved further left, and those on the right have moved further right, and the center is even more desolate. Worse, those on the left think their new is unbiased, and those on the right think their news is unbiased, and neither seem to realize the extent that bias and opinion have replaced actual news. I would also point out that in 2014, while the number of services on the extreme left and extreme right are about equal, the number of news services on the left, or slight left vastly outnumber those on the right and slight right. I suspect that's true today as well.


I prefer NPR to all of these, and have that on my radio quite regularly. What stinks about those in the center according to your post are not the best in terms of journalism. I enjoy WSJ and I think CBS's 60 minutes is still very in-depth, but USA Today and Yahoo would be two of the last places I would go for news. Their reporting is minimal and weak at best. I think what really needs to be separated in all outlets is reporting vs. opinions. I think that the reporting at the NY Times is outstanding. The op eds are less so. Find it funny that Colbert is listed in the News outlets. While I can enjoy some of his stuff, I've never once considered him a news source.

Note that this wasn't my opinion, just something I linked to from the Washington Post. I agree with you that Colbert is not a source for news, but neither are Hannity, Limbaugh, or Beck.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that what we need most is separation between news and opinion. The reason, I think, that even though NPR is extremely liberal, it isn't offensive, is that they make a conscious effort to separate news from opinion, and when they have an opinion piece (e.g. "All things considered"), they always try to include some perspective from the other side.

I think all News services would be better if they did both things, clearly separated news from opinions, and showed enough respect for the other side to include some explanation of their opinions. Failure to recognize the merit of contrary opinions is what leads us down the path we are on of incessant hostility and animosity towards each other, and leads to where we are seeing ever less respect for the concept of freedom of speech.


Some leading news orgs still respect the "wall" between news reporting and opinion pages. One is The Wall Street Journal.



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bobcatsquared
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 2,598

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/26/2019 3:13:48 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
I watch Fox News OCF, for a fair and balanced report.


Funny how quickly this thread dovetailed after BTC posted an obviously sarcastic take on Fox News.

Statistically speaking, BTC has shown the greatest likelihood of submitting a sarcastic post on BA at just under 25% of the time (1203 out of a total of 5016 posts).

Just over a third of his sarcastic posts, interestingly, have to do about Peden expanding to 35,000 seats (411 out of 1203).

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Buck.Cat
General User

Member Since: 12/21/2017
Post Count: 240

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/27/2019 7:06:23 PM 
The problem with an entertainment news organization like Fox is that they interweave their opinion and news shows without a hint of discretion to their older demographic.

We Report, We Decide'd
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bobcat2nc
General User

Member Since: 12/28/2004
Post Count: 571

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Kill/Fleck feud
   Posted: 2/28/2019 12:44:40 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
The problem with an entertainment news organization like Fox is that they interweave their opinion and news shows without a hint of discretion to their older demographic.

We Report, We Decide'd


I proudly display both my BSNBC and FauxNews stickers on all my vehicles.
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