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Topic:  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021

Topic:  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
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ChiCat2018
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 3:58:52 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
giacomo wrote:
Sense of shame, I completely agree with all of your posts. Dabo, signed an 8 year 54M deal last year. Why doesn't he just give a few mill per year to his players? He wouldn't.


FWIW, I feel that coaches are vastly overpaid too. I'd be all for some sort of cap for head coach compensation in the NCAA. Of course, that will never happen so long as the big boys are writing their own rules.

Not going to get in a back-and-forth with Sense of Shame, we are firmly in opposite camps (as is typically the case). But two points I'll toss out:

1. I'm most on the side of college athletes at the MAC level and below, 99% of which will never sniff the pros and deserve to have a great college experience playing sports. Rules that are titled to benefit the behemoths (like player endorsements) don't help those guys or the fans/students/alumni of schools like Ohio.

2. Almost every school that sponsors college athletics loses money on it. A TON of money on it. If there's one thing that I wish you could see eye-to-eye with me, it's the fact that college athletics is a money-loser for all but a small handful of programs. The "poor athlete" you talk about is probably costing his university $50,000 a year in student fees.


I think everyone on here is well aware that only a small handful of schools actually profit on sports. That's not the point. Say Jackie O's wants to give AJ a 10% discount because he had a good game. He can't accept that. Or Rocky Boots wants some guys on the O-Line to be in a commercial or sponsor them. They can't accept that. The big time schools get caught paying for recruits all the time, why not let the small school kids get some money for their performance.

NCAA rules are just absurd http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/unc/genrel/auto_pdf/h...
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Brian Smith
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 4:00:32 PM 
God, Rocky-branded cleats. I like that.

Get on that, Nelsonville.

Last Edited: 1/10/2019 4:00:42 PM by Brian Smith


Been kicking up sparks/we set the flames free/The windows are locked now so what'll it be?/A house on fire or a rising sea?

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 4:05:41 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
giacomo wrote:
Sense of shame, I completely agree with all of your posts. Dabo, signed an 8 year 54M deal last year. Why doesn't he just give a few mill per year to his players? He wouldn't.


FWIW, I feel that coaches are vastly overpaid too. I'd be all for some sort of cap for head coach compensation in the NCAA. Of course, that will never happen so long as the big boys are writing their own rules.

Not going to get in a back-and-forth with Sense of Shame, we are firmly in opposite camps (as is typically the case). But two points I'll toss out:

1. I'm most on the side of college athletes at the MAC level and below, 99% of which will never sniff the pros and deserve to have a great college experience playing sports. Rules that are titled to benefit the behemoths (like player endorsements) don't help those guys or the fans/students/alumni of schools like Ohio.

2. Almost every school that sponsors college athletics loses money on it. A TON of money on it. If there's one thing that I wish you could see eye-to-eye with me, it's the fact that college athletics is a money-loser for all but a small handful of programs. The "poor athlete" you talk about is probably costing his university $50,000 a year in student fees.


1. Because some people can't make money at something, others shouldn't be allowed to do so? What's your rationale? Why do the fans of Ohio University have anything to do with a rule designed to help Trevor Lawrence? Because you value you own sense of what's entertaining about college football over somebody's right to earn a living?

2. I'm well-aware of the economics of NCAA athletics. I'm not asking Ohio University to pay Delvar Barrett anything beyond what they're doing, which I think is perfectly fair given that he had no earning potential beyond it. I just think it's unnecessary that the NCAA makes the compensation of a scholarship contingent upon the athlete earning nothing beyond it. Nobody on a physics scholarship would be barred from appearing in a commercial were they cast in one. I think it's completely unnecessary to restrict people on basketball scholarships to do so if they're able to.

Last question: how does Trevor Lawrence on a Wheaties box make an Ohio University Field Hockey player's experience worse?


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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 5:28:41 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Let's say Trevor Lawrence has a career ending injury his junior year, because he opts to play instead of sitting out.



Is there any reason that Lawernce couldn't take out an insurance policy as a protection against a career ending or even career limiting injury ?





He could. But a) who will pay for it and b) there's still a ton of risk. No policy will pay close to a 15 year NFL career. Or even just a rookie contract.


Given the odds of suffering a career ending injury,the premiums for that type of policy shouldn't be expensive.

I would think you could get a policy for several million dollars.

Would it be as much as his contract and signing bonus ?

Probably not,but it would still be enough to let you live comfortably.



They are not expensive, had a friend who had one for his senior year in college
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 5:53:36 PM 
Trevor Lawrence has nothing else to prove. He beat a defense that will have 4-5 Day 1 defensive picks in the 1st round. He beat them at the pinnacle of the sport. Anything less in the next years and his market goes down. Wish he could declare this year. He is more ready than Justin Herbert, Tyree Jackson and Kyler Murray. Same boat as Haskins if not better. The NCAA 2ants to make more money off of him.
That's why they will plaster him in the media as college football's darling. And they will sell his Jersey # online and in college bookstores without his name on the back of it to profit off of him. Am I wrong in saying this?
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 6:27:23 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Last question: how does Trevor Lawrence on a Wheaties box make an Ohio University Field Hockey player's experience worse?


In the abstract, I don't have a problem with endorsements. It would be great if Nathan Rourke could earn $500 from a Kiser's BBQ radio ad.

The problem is, if sponsorship/endorsement deals were permitted, the abuse would make your head spin. There's nothing to stop some big-time donor from signing an entire basketball team to "endorsement" deals for $20,000 a piece (or way more).

There's no way to make it fair to the point where everyone has a level playing field. If there was a modest cap provided on endorsement contracts (say $1,000 per player per year), I'd be in favor of that. But I don't want recruiting to turn into an auction. It's bad enough as it is right now.
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akroncat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 9:15:59 PM 
The NCAA is not preventing Lawrence from going pro. The NFL owners and the union are the ones that have the rule. The union wants to protect the players already in the NFL.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 9:56:58 PM 
Iíve pointed this out before, but Iíll bring it up again as it shows where we are with coaches compensation and revenue. I took my first job after graduation in Ann Arbor in 1981. Bo Schembechler, the Nick Saban of his day, made 100k in salary. If you inflate that number by 3.5% each year, that number would be 385k now. Harbaugh makes 9M. Players are still getting tuition, room and board.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 11:27:09 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Iíve pointed this out before, but Iíll bring it up again as it shows where we are with coaches compensation and revenue. I took my first job after graduation in Ann Arbor in 1981. Bo Schembechler, the Nick Saban of his day, made 100k in salary. If you inflate that number by 3.5% each year, that number would be 385k now. Harbaugh makes 9M. Players are still getting tuition, room and board.

While I agree that coaching salaries are outrageous, it is also true that tuition, fees, and room and board have gone up considerably faster than inflation.

Is no one else bemused to see normally conservative posters defending the current socialistic system, where everyone gets the same thing, regardless of skill, and normally liberal posters defending the free market solution, where each person should be able to maximize his worth?


"When two men always agree, one of them is unnecessary." William Wrigley

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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/10/2019 11:47:19 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
....Nobody on a physics scholarship would be barred from appearing in a commercial were they cast in one....


In graduate school*, I was contractually barred from taking ANY outside employment without the express written consent of the graduate school, on pain of losing my stipend and tuition waiver. Enforcement of this rule wasn't vigorous, but it enforcement was at least threatened on occasion
*PhD
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 7:04:38 AM 
giacomo wrote:
Iíve pointed this out before, but Iíll bring it up again as it shows where we are with coaches compensation and revenue. I took my first job after graduation in Ann Arbor in 1981. Bo Schembechler, the Nick Saban of his day, made 100k in salary. If you inflate that number by 3.5% each year, that number would be 385k now. Harbaugh makes 9M. Players are still getting tuition, room and board.


His players also get free week long trips to Europe. There are other avenues where money is put into these pockets from within the rules, especially at the larger programs.

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 7:07:11 AM by BillyTheCat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 7:46:06 AM 
L.C. wrote:
giacomo wrote:
Iíve pointed this out before, but Iíll bring it up again as it shows where we are with coaches compensation and revenue. I took my first job after graduation in Ann Arbor in 1981. Bo Schembechler, the Nick Saban of his day, made 100k in salary. If you inflate that number by 3.5% each year, that number would be 385k now. Harbaugh makes 9M. Players are still getting tuition, room and board.

While I agree that coaching salaries are outrageous, it is also true that tuition, fees, and room and board have gone up considerably faster than inflation.

Is no one else bemused to see normally conservative posters defending the current socialistic system, where everyone gets the same thing, regardless of skill, and normally liberal posters defending the free market solution, where each person should be able to maximize his worth?



It's definitely interesting, but ultimately not all that surprising.

The whole "Democrats are socialists" thing is really just right wing media bubble hysteria with little rooting in truth. Somehow people on the right think that's true and simultaneously thought Hillary Clinton was in Goldman Sachs' back pocket. Those two things aren't congruent.

Also, this is really a conversation about how labor is compensated, and the left has always been the party of labor, even if labor doesn't always realize it. I don't think it's all that surprising that folks on the left think people should be compensated for their work.

And finally, modern conservatism isn't really rooted in any of the ideals traditionally associated with the GOP. It is, by and large, a party defined mainly by fear. And over the last decade or so, its fears have become largely cultural. In practice, this tends to result in conservatives supporting entrenched power structures because they fear change. So it's not surprising to me that they support the NCAA over NCAA athletes despite the obvious ideological inconsistencies in doing so. Supporting the athletes would lead to change. Many, many people on both sides of the spectrum are scared if change. And it is, according to polling data, one of the defining characteristics of modern conservatives.

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 7:55:44 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 8:31:54 AM 
catfan28 wrote:
2. Almost every school that sponsors college athletics loses money on it. A TON of money on it. If there's one thing that I wish you could see eye-to-eye with me, it's the fact that college athletics is a money-loser for all but a small handful of programs. The "poor athlete" you talk about is probably costing his university $50,000 a year in student fees.


The talking heads never discuss this.

Also, why doesn't Trevor Lawrence just play football somewhere esle if he doesn't like the NCAA's rules? Young hockey players, baseball players, and etc. do this all the time.



Last Edited: 1/11/2019 8:33:06 AM by Ohio69


Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 10:23:18 AM 
catfan28 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Last question: how does Trevor Lawrence on a Wheaties box make an Ohio University Field Hockey player's experience worse?


In the abstract, I don't have a problem with endorsements. It would be great if Nathan Rourke could earn $500 from a Kiser's BBQ radio ad.

The problem is, if sponsorship/endorsement deals were permitted, the abuse would make your head spin. There's nothing to stop some big-time donor from signing an entire basketball team to "endorsement" deals for $20,000 a piece (or way more).

There's no way to make it fair to the point where everyone has a level playing field. If there was a modest cap provided on endorsement contracts (say $1,000 per player per year), I'd be in favor of that. But I don't want recruiting to turn into an auction. It's bad enough as it is right now.


There isn't a level playing field now. An obvious example of that: Ohio University's "FBS" football program is not eligible for the National Championship. Really what you're talking about is maintaining the very thin veneer of a level playing field.

And to be super honest: I don't really care about that. Maintaining a system that lets fans of MAC teams pretend they're on a level playing field with the Clemson's and Ohio State's of the world is far less important to me than allowing people the personal freedom to make their own financial decisions and pursue a living however they see fit.

If a donor pays a couple of people 20k to play at Oregon or wherever, it will have changed exactly nothing. This past year, the top three players in the nation all committed to the same school. On the court, nothing would change. Off the court, talented people would be compensated for their talent. I'm cool with that.



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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 10:54:33 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
giacomo wrote:
Iíve pointed this out before, but Iíll bring it up again as it shows where we are with coaches compensation and revenue. I took my first job after graduation in Ann Arbor in 1981. Bo Schembechler, the Nick Saban of his day, made 100k in salary. If you inflate that number by 3.5% each year, that number would be 385k now. Harbaugh makes 9M. Players are still getting tuition, room and board.


His players also get free week long trips to Europe. There are other avenues where money is put into these pockets from within the rules, especially at the larger programs.


right... and let me preface this by saying that it's not easy being a college student athlete. If it were, everyone would do it. but the kids get way more than tuition, room and board (which, as LC pointed out is not cheap, even in-state at a public school it's enough to break families). They get to travel, often in the most luxurious of accommodations (at big time schools), they get special arrangements, they have special facilities and tutoring, extra medical care and insurance, football equipment (which if you've ever seen at a store, is not cheap and also needs maintained, fixed, and replaced) they play in super expensive stadiums that only get used 5-8 times a year on surfaces that need maintained and replaced, with electronics and lights that cost a crap ton of money. The problem is far more that Harbaugh makes 9 million, not that students "only" get tuition.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 12:48:26 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
giacomo wrote:
Iíve pointed this out before, but Iíll bring it up again as it shows where we are with coaches compensation and revenue. I took my first job after graduation in Ann Arbor in 1981. Bo Schembechler, the Nick Saban of his day, made 100k in salary. If you inflate that number by 3.5% each year, that number would be 385k now. Harbaugh makes 9M. Players are still getting tuition, room and board.


His players also get free week long trips to Europe. There are other avenues where money is put into these pockets from within the rules, especially at the larger programs.


right... and let me preface this by saying that it's not easy being a college student athlete. If it were, everyone would do it. but the kids get way more than tuition, room and board (which, as LC pointed out is not cheap, even in-state at a public school it's enough to break families). They get to travel, often in the most luxurious of accommodations (at big time schools), they get special arrangements, they have special facilities and tutoring, extra medical care and insurance, football equipment (which if you've ever seen at a store, is not cheap and also needs maintained, fixed, and replaced) they play in super expensive stadiums that only get used 5-8 times a year on surfaces that need maintained and replaced, with electronics and lights that cost a crap ton of money. The problem is far more that Harbaugh makes 9 million, not that students "only" get tuition.



And people would be amazed at what these big programs are able to funnel to their student athletes in legal manners. Like, after the big bowl game having the choice of riding the team charter home, or getting the maximum allowable per diem to find your own way home, even if you ride with your parents. Can be a couple G's right there. Play that game over break when dorms are closed and hello, nice fat check for "expenses". Student Athlete from a poor background, Pell Grants and other Aid is given to them in the form of reimbursement checks that does not need paid back. Scholarships to the big boys are cut on the highest level of rooming, find off campus housing and pocket another couple of thousand. Get back from your game, the big boys will not only make sure you got off the bus with a full belly, but also with maximum allowable meal money.

And not to be over looked but the exposure they are getting is what is making them eventually marketable and of value.

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 12:49:04 PM by BillyTheCat

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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 1:13:55 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


And people would be amazed at what these big programs are able to funnel to their student athletes in legal manners. Like, after the big bowl game having the choice of riding the team charter home, or getting the maximum allowable per diem to find your own way home, even if you ride with your parents. Can be a couple G's right there. Play that game over break when dorms are closed and hello, nice fat check for "expenses". Student Athlete from a poor background, Pell Grants and other Aid is given to them in the form of reimbursement checks that does not need paid back. Scholarships to the big boys are cut on the highest level of rooming, find off campus housing and pocket another couple of thousand. Get back from your game, the big boys will not only make sure you got off the bus with a full belly, but also with maximum allowable meal money.

And not to be over looked but the exposure they are getting is what is making them eventually marketable and of value.


(Details may be a little fogged from the passage of time)

Growing up, one of my next door neighbors played football for Michigan. One year they went to the Rose Bowl. While they were all out there, he told his parents in a hushed voice that he and his roommate had woken up to find envelops of cash under their door. Something like a couple hundred each. He was worried someone was trying to buy them off, to try to throw the game or something. Took him a while to figure out that this was their per diem, for expenses and food and whatnot (of course they were also being fed by the team directly). Worked out pretty well for him.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 2:01:00 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's definitely interesting, but ultimately not all that surprising.

The whole "Democrats are socialists" thing is really just right wing media bubble hysteria with little rooting in truth. Somehow people on the right think that's true and simultaneously thought Hillary Clinton was in Goldman Sachs' back pocket. Those two things aren't congruent.

Also, this is really a conversation about how labor is compensated, and the left has always been the party of labor, even if labor doesn't always realize it. I don't think it's all that surprising that folks on the left think people should be compensated for their work.

And finally, modern conservatism isn't really rooted in any of the ideals traditionally associated with the GOP. It is, by and large, a party defined mainly by fear. And over the last decade or so, its fears have become largely cultural. In practice, this tends to result in conservatives supporting entrenched power structures because they fear change. So it's not surprising to me that they support the NCAA over NCAA athletes despite the obvious ideological inconsistencies in doing so. Supporting the athletes would lead to change. Many, many people on both sides of the spectrum are scared if change. And it is, according to polling data, one of the defining characteristics of modern conservatives.

Where it gets interesting is that both sides want to have their cake and eat it, too. For example, if you are going to open up the high end, and let the better athletes be compensated more, to balance things, you also need to open the low end, and let the worse athletes be compensated less. Thus, if you wanted to create an entirely new, free market system to replace the current one, you would eliminate the requirement that people get full scholarships, and also make them non-renewable, and subject to revocation if they arrive on campus injured. Then you'd have a whole range of free market compensation. The stars could get a scholarship, plus endorsements, plus additional benefits, and the backups might get 1/2 of a scholarship, and no benefits. Would that be a system you'd like better?

In the end, if "college football" ends up divorced from colleges, and ends up as a farm league for the NFL, that's probably about what you'd get. Everyone would get at least minimum wage. Most players would probably make $31-50,000 (which is typical in arena football), so about half what they get now, but they would get it in cash (and it would be taxable), not in terms of a deferred benefit (i.e. an education). The stars would make closer to the NFL minimum, and leave once they are good enough to actually make the NFL.

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 2:08:27 PM by L.C.


"When two men always agree, one of them is unnecessary." William Wrigley

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 2:07:30 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's definitely interesting, but ultimately not all that surprising.

The whole "Democrats are socialists" thing is really just right wing media bubble hysteria with little rooting in truth. Somehow people on the right think that's true and simultaneously thought Hillary Clinton was in Goldman Sachs' back pocket. Those two things aren't congruent.

Also, this is really a conversation about how labor is compensated, and the left has always been the party of labor, even if labor doesn't always realize it. I don't think it's all that surprising that folks on the left think people should be compensated for their work.

And finally, modern conservatism isn't really rooted in any of the ideals traditionally associated with the GOP. It is, by and large, a party defined mainly by fear. And over the last decade or so, its fears have become largely cultural. In practice, this tends to result in conservatives supporting entrenched power structures because they fear change. So it's not surprising to me that they support the NCAA over NCAA athletes despite the obvious ideological inconsistencies in doing so. Supporting the athletes would lead to change. Many, many people on both sides of the spectrum are scared if change. And it is, according to polling data, one of the defining characteristics of modern conservatives.

Where it gets interesting is that both sides want to have their cake and eat it, too. For example, if you are going to open up the high end, and let the better athletes be compensated more, to balance things, you also need to open the low end, and let the worse athletes be compensated less. Thus, if you wanted to create an entirely new, free market system to replace the current one, you would eliminate the requirement that people get full scholarships, and also make them non-renewable, and subject to revocation if they arrive on campus injured. Then you'd have a whole range of free market compensation. The stars could get a scholarship, plus endorsements, plus additional benefits, and the backups might get 1/3 of a scholarship, and no benefits. Would that be a system you'd like better?

In the end, if "college football" ends up divorced from colleges, and ends up as a farm league for the NFL, that's probably about what you'd get. Everyone would get at least minimum wage. Most players would probably make about $25-30,000, so about half to a third what they get now, but they would get it in cash (and it would be taxable), not in terms of a deferred benefit (i.e. an education). The stars would make closer to the NFL minimum, and leave once they are good enough to actually make the NFL.


Scholarships are already non-renewable, there is NO such thing as a 4 year scholarship in athletics, each and every one is a 1 year renewable agreement.

The purely financial end would also help repress minority populations by not providing a path to an education and all the opportunities that go with that. For what a chance to make maybe a few years of 40k that would be blown at that age and would only last as income for 3-4 years.

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 2:10:02 PM by BillyTheCat

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 2:11:25 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Scholarships are already non-renewable, there is NO such thing as a 4 year scholarship in athletics, each and every one is a 1 year renewable agreement.

Yes, but it's standard practice to renew them in most cases. Some schools are more aggressive about encouraging the ones that don't work out to leave, or flat out yanking scholarships from players who aren't trying. If you created from scratch a system where teams had to pay more for the stars, they would also have to be more aggressive about taking scholarships from the non-starters. Note that I'm not advocating this, just pointing out that football budgets are finite, and that if change the system such that you spend more on one player, you also have to change it such that you spend less on other players.

BillyTheCat wrote:
The purely financial end would also help repress minority populations by not providing a path to an education and all the opportunities that go with that. For what a chance to make maybe a few years of 40k that would be blown at that age and would only last as income for 3-4 years.

I couldn't agree more. The players may wish they were getting cash, but over the long term, many ex-players go on to do well in life after football, and get good value from the education. That, to me, is the biggest benefit of having football as a part of the University. It brings people to the University that otherwise would not be able to attend, and then they have the opportunity to take advantage of that.

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 2:17:04 PM by L.C.


"When two men always agree, one of them is unnecessary." William Wrigley

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 5:19:46 PM 
L.C. wrote:

Where it gets interesting is that both sides want to have their cake and eat it, too. For example, if you are going to open up the high end, and let the better athletes be compensated more, to balance things, you also need to open the low end, and let the worse athletes be compensated less. Thus, if you wanted to create an entirely new, free market system to replace the current one, you would eliminate the requirement that people get full scholarships, and also make them non-renewable, and subject to revocation if they arrive on campus injured. Then you'd have a whole range of free market compensation. The stars could get a scholarship, plus endorsements, plus additional benefits, and the backups might get 1/2 of a scholarship, and no benefits. Would that be a system you'd like better?


I don't understand why you'd have to do that. In fact, I don't think you'd have to do that. Honestly, you'd barely have to change anything at all.

All you'd have to do is eliminate restrictions on outside earnings and endorsement money. Schools could still compensate players with scholarships in the exact manner they do so. The only difference would be that players who accepted endorsement deals or money from some booster wouldn't be breaking any by-laws. They'd just have more money.

Why would all the other stuff have to change? It's not at all clear to me why opening up the "high end" and the "low end" are different things. You just lift the restrictions across the board, and let human beings earn money on their talents if they can figure out a way to do so.

I honestly don't know why this is so complicated.

L.C. wrote:

In the end, if "college football" ends up divorced from colleges, and ends up as a farm league for the NFL, that's probably about what you'd get. Everyone would get at least minimum wage. Most players would probably make $31-50,000 (which is typical in arena football), so about half what they get now, but they would get it in cash (and it would be taxable), not in terms of a deferred benefit (i.e. an education). The stars would make closer to the NFL minimum, and leave once they are good enough to actually make the NFL.


Colleges will never let college football become divorced from colleges. Which is why it makes an awful lot of sense for them to relax the limitations on what athletes can earn beyond their scholarships. They've invested a whole lot in the infrastructure necessary to run athletic programs, and some of them have an awful lot to lose financially were college football to end up de-coupled from colleges. College football's at far greater risk of becoming de-coupled from colleges if labor review boards determine athletes are employees than they are if they're not. And restricting somebody's earning ability is a great way to convince the Department of Labor that somebody is your employee.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 5:21:56 PM 
L.C. wrote:

It brings people to the University that otherwise would not be able to attend, and then they have the opportunity to take advantage of that.


Universities can admit whoever they want. Football's not a necessary part of that equation.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 6:50:18 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I don't understand why you'd have to do that. In fact, I don't think you'd have to do that. Honestly, you'd barely have to change anything at all. ...

Ah, I see. You just want a partial solution. That could work. I thought you wanted to allow them to get more benefits from the University. If the University had to "pay" them more, they'd have to either increase their budget, which I don't see as possible, or decrease their "pay" to someone else.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Colleges will never let college football become divorced from colleges....

Never is a long time. I agree that in the short run, it won't happen.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Universities can admit whoever they want. Football's not a necessary part of that equation.

Yes, they could, and they could also give them full scholarships, if they wanted to. However:
1. Some people who come to college for football don't place a lot of value on the education at the time. Later, I think, they come to appreciate it more.
2. Many people who come on football scholarships would never think to apply if football wasn't part of the equation
3. If they started giving full scholarships to people with very low ACT scores, and poor grades in high school, which some football players have, don't you think that some more qualified people who were declined would complain?
4. Even if they were admitted, do you think they would succeed without the support system that they get from football?


"When two men always agree, one of them is unnecessary." William Wrigley

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 10:55:58 PM 
LC, I of all people know this is standard practice. Just correcting the Fallacy of the post
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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Trevor Lawrence should sit out until 2021
   Posted: 1/11/2019 10:56:23 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Sense of shame, I completely agree with all of your posts. Dabo, signed an 8 year 54M deal last year. Why doesn't he just give a few mill per year to his players? He wouldn't.

Insurance on players is a specialty line and only sold by someone like Lloyd's of London. Very, very expensive.

This sham will only change if guys like Lawrence start to walk away.


As someone who lives in SC I can only say Dabo is no one I respect. I'll say no more.

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