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Topic:  Quarterback

Topic:  Quarterback
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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  Quarterback
   Posted: 7/10/2018 8:10:10 AM 
In the years since TT our talent at QB was probably in the lower half of the conference

If we had someone at he level of Rourke during that time how would our records look

We have had years where we had lots of talent coming into each season but we lacked an all conference candidate at QB

Is the difference for the high expectations for this and future season principally with having a QB of Rourke's calibre

PS: question mark on my keyboard not working at the moment
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/10/2018 8:55:43 AM 
ytownbobcat wrote:
...PS: question mark on my keyboard not working at the moment

As a temporary workaround, when you want to type a "?", hold down the Alt key, and type 063, then release the Alt key. You can do that for anything you want to type, if you look up the ASCII code.

I do agree that the QB situation is better now, and am hoping it stays better. The place for me where there is the most dramatic difference is the Offensive line, though. Under Lightner, it was always an adventure, but under Johnson it became one of the best in the conference, both good and deep, and recruiting improved dramatically. I'm hopeful that the line continues to improve under Miller.

Last Edited: 7/10/2018 9:01:09 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/10/2018 11:43:40 PM 
ytownbobcat wrote:
In the years since TT our talent at QB was probably in the lower half of the conference

If we had someone at he level of Rourke during that time how would our records look

We have had years where we had lots of talent coming into each season but we lacked an all conference candidate at QB

Is the difference for the high expectations for this and future season principally with having a QB of Rourke's calibre

PS: question mark on my keyboard not working at the moment


I think that coming off a bowl victory is extremely helpful. There also appears to be more consistent depth on both sides of the ball than in previous years. Having an exciting and entertaining quarterback certainly helps as well.

Of course, there are still questions about this team's ability to finish up strong and when it counts. However, one is left with the feeling that this program is beginning to turn the corner in terms of controlling their own fate in the MAC. The regular season collapse last year still raises questions though regarding everything from conditioning to the quality of coaching on the offensive side of the ball.
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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 9:28:48 AM 
I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season as long as the team can stay healthy overall.

Rourke I think has more talent than TT and also seems to be more stable upstairs. I will be shocked if he regresses in his years to come unless hampered by an injury (which I know, in fairness, was a factor in TT's drop off).

BUT, but, but..........until they can avoid a 1-2 game bed wetting in November and/or a pre-MACtion head scratching loss the script from season's past will repeat its self.

I've seen enough Ohio football to know that they could come scorching hot out of the gate going 4-0 beating UVA and UC but then lose to Kent and __________________ Michigan. It's frustrating that the margin of error can be quite small in the MAC, but that's life in the MAC!

While there is a stable of strong teams going into this upcoming season, there is no one head and shoulders above the rest IMHO. I think Ohio is as good as anyone and is certainly a contender for their first title since '68.

Ohio-The State University
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 9:40:05 AM 
OUcats82 wrote:
I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season as long as the team can stay healthy overall.

Rourke I think has more talent than TT and also seems to be more stable upstairs. I will be shocked if he regresses in his years to come unless hampered by an injury (which I know, in fairness, was a factor in TT's drop off).

BUT, but, but..........until they can avoid a 1-2 game bed wetting in November and/or a pre-MACtion head scratching loss the script from season's past will repeat its self.

I've seen enough Ohio football to know that they could come scorching hot out of the gate going 4-0 beating UVA and UC but then lose to Kent and __________________ Michigan. It's frustrating that the margin of error can be quite small in the MAC, but that's life in the MAC!

While there is a stable of strong teams going into this upcoming season, there is no one head and shoulders above the rest IMHO. I think Ohio is as good as anyone and is certainly a contender for their first title since '68.


I think Rourke might have more potential than TT. I don't see where you get more talent at this point. He might have a stronger arm, but his numbers aren't anywhere close when it comes to accuracy and lack of interceptions. I'm optimistic he'll make strides in that direction this season, but I'll wait until he does it (and at least wins a division) before crowning him better than our best QB in a generation. Beating a P5 school not named Kansas will help his cause too.
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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 11:40:57 AM 
OUcats82 wrote:
BUT, but, but..........until they can avoid a 1-2 game bed wetting in November and/or a pre-MACtion head scratching loss the script from season's past will repeat its self.

I've seen enough Ohio football to know that they could come scorching hot out of the gate going 4-0 beating UVA and UC but then lose to Kent and __________________ Michigan. It's frustrating that the margin of error can be quite small in the MAC, but that's life in the MAC!


This is pretty much where I'm at on the season as a whole, not just for our QB. We have 4 games in 19 days, between Oct. 20 and Nov. 7, with the latter two on the road.

My hope is that the O line is the deep group of road graders I expect them to be, and we just run run run run run run the ball down peoples' throats during that stretch, and we can keep it conservative and the starters can stay healthy.

But with a smaller travel roster, I don't know that that is a realistic expectation those last two road games, including at Fiami, so it also wouldn't surprise me to see the wheels completely fall off.

Yeah, maybe that makes me a Debbie Downer, but I've seen too much Ohio football over the last 2 decades to believe that we can actually get the breaks to fall our way.

Go Bobcats.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 12:41:09 PM 
OUcats82 wrote:
I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season as long as the team can stay healthy overall.

Rourke I think has more talent than TT and also seems to be more stable upstairs. I will be shocked if he regresses in his years to come unless hampered by an injury (which I know, in fairness, was a factor in TT's drop off). ...

I don't think people give nearly enough credit to the offensive line for TT's drop off. In 2012 there were a massive number of injuries to the offensive line, and there was no depth, so the line quality diminished dramatically by mid-season. You can see that drop off in the offensive line in the rushing numbers, too. In 2011 Ohio averaged 4.6 yards a carry. By 2013 Ohio was down to 3.8 yards a carry.

The offensive line this year will be every bit as good as last year, most likely better, and they seem to have excellent depth.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 4:25:24 PM 
L.C. wrote:
OUcats82 wrote:
I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season as long as the team can stay healthy overall.

Rourke I think has more talent than TT and also seems to be more stable upstairs. I will be shocked if he regresses in his years to come unless hampered by an injury (which I know, in fairness, was a factor in TT's drop off). ...

I don't think people give nearly enough credit to the offensive line for TT's drop off. In 2012 there were a massive number of injuries to the offensive line, and there was no depth, so the line quality diminished dramatically by mid-season. You can see that drop off in the offensive line in the rushing numbers, too. In 2011 Ohio averaged 4.6 yards a carry. By 2013 Ohio was down to 3.8 yards a carry.

The offensive line this year will be every bit as good as last year, most likely better, and they seem to have excellent depth.



I think the question I mostly had regarding TT's drop off was (1) that far into Solich's tenure, shouldn't the line depth have been there? And (2) he clearly stopped running the ball as much on the read option so was that a product of himself or the shaky line?
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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 4:48:24 PM 
I've been thinking about our QB situation a lot, and really like where we are, especially with Ground Canada.

However, for us to really have a great season in 2018, and I'd appreciate anyone's take, especially LC's, is that if we don't see improvements along the lines of the following from Nate, making him more Air Canada than Ground Canada, we will be pushing him into more potential injury danger, jeopardizing a title shot:

Completion percentage to increase about 10 pts to the 65% range
His yards per catch needs to nearly double
His rushing TD's cut in half to about 10
Increase his passing TD's to the mid to high 20's

In the history of MAC QB's who led their teams to a title, I just don't see a run first, high volume rush attempts, nearing 1000 yard rushing QB getting anyone to a title in the modern era. The threat to run and being a capable runner is one thing, but through our schedule gauntlet, I don't see a game plan similar to 2017 getting us over the top this year. Thoughts?

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 5:10:44 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
I think the question I mostly had regarding TT's drop off was (1) that far into Solich's tenure, shouldn't the line depth have been there? And (2) he clearly stopped running the ball as much on the read option so was that a product of himself or the shaky line?

Yes, it should have been there, but it wasn't. When Dave Johnson arrived in 2014, the cupboard was bare. Average yards/carry by year:
2013 3.8 (Lightner)
2014 4.2 (Johnson)
2015 4.3 (Johnson)
2016 4.3 (Johnson)
2017 5.7 (Johnson)
2018 ??? (Miller)

Johnson did an outstanding job, and I hope Miller does as well. Johnson left the cupboard stacked for Miller, so Ohio should just keep rolling.

DA, I agree. I'd like to see him run less, and pass more, and better this year. I expected him to be a mostly pass-only QB last year, but it was almost like he was new to the option, but took naturally to it, and was having fun running it last year.

Last Edited: 7/11/2018 5:12:48 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 5:13:20 PM 
D.A. wrote:
I've been thinking about our QB situation a lot, and really like where we are, especially with Ground Canada.

However, for us to really have a great season in 2018, and I'd appreciate anyone's take, especially LC's, is that if we don't see improvements along the lines of the following from Nate, making him more Air Canada than Ground Canada, we will be pushing him into more potential injury danger, jeopardizing a title shot:

Completion percentage to increase about 10 pts to the 65% range
His yards per catch needs to nearly double
His rushing TD's cut in half to about 10
Increase his passing TD's to the mid to high 20's

In the history of MAC QB's who led their teams to a title, I just don't see a run first, high volume rush attempts, nearing 1000 yard rushing QB getting anyone to a title in the modern era. The threat to run and being a capable runner is one thing, but through our schedule gauntlet, I don't see a game plan similar to 2017 getting us over the top this year. Thoughts?


Jordan Lynch & Chandler Harnish, NIU.

Last Edited: 7/11/2018 7:51:20 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 5:35:48 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Jordan Lynch & Chandler Harnish, NIU.
Alan

Lefevour ran for 2948 yards and 47 TDs in his career.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/11/2018 10:43:50 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Jordan Lynch & Chandler Harnish, NIU.
Alan

Lefevour ran for 2948 yards and 47 TDs in his career.



Good points. I see Rourke as an interesting combination of Kareem Wilson (running ability) and Cleve Bryant (passing-on-the-run ability). Now, I'll admit, that last year he didn't quite have the passing-on-the-run thing down as well as the just-keep-running-with-the-ball thing. But, I thought I saw tons of potential as a very accurate roll out passer. I have no expertise in Xs and Os. This is just a gestalt impression.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/12/2018 7:39:11 AM 
L.C. wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Jordan Lynch & Chandler Harnish, NIU.
Alan

Lefevour ran for 2948 yards and 47 TDs in his career.



Bowling Green never won a title in his time, but they got to a MAC Championship while Josh Harris was a runner and thrower.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-harris-...

A capable, mobile QB always works in the college game.
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Rufusbobcat94
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/12/2018 7:46:14 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Jordan Lynch & Chandler Harnish, NIU.
Alan

Lefevour ran for 2948 yards and 47 TDs in his career.



Good points. I see Rourke as an interesting combination of Kareem Wilson (running ability) and Cleve Bryant (passing-on-the-run ability). Now, I'll admit, that last year he didn't quite have the passing-on-the-run thing down as well as the just-keep-running-with-the-ball thing. But, I thought I saw tons of potential as a very accurate roll out passer. I have no expertise in Xs and Os. This is just a gestalt impression.


I recently re watched several games from last year and what stood out to me about Rourke that I'd add is he has a great feel for how to run an option which is fairly rare. When you watch less successful QBs run the option, you can see they don't have a feel for when to hold and when to pitch. Usually they pitch too soon or run too soon, before the defense sufficiently commits. Rourke was brilliant at that timing last year
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Rufusbobcat94
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/12/2018 7:56:14 AM 
deleted

Last Edited: 7/12/2018 8:38:51 AM by Rufusbobcat94
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ytownbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/12/2018 1:04:46 PM 
Also please consider that he had a depleted receiving corps in 2017.

Many drop back passing plays didn't pan out but he made significant run yardage usually on critical 3rd downs. Kept drives alive and frustrated defenses.

Evasive moves when he had to scramble out of pocket reminded me of Julian Edelman when he was QB at Kent.
Physical and mental toughness are other very positive attributes.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/12/2018 1:45:17 PM 
ytownbobcat wrote:
Also please consider that he had a depleted receiving corps in 2017. ...

With White, Odom, and Ball, that's a very good starting three for 2018. Add in Meyer and Knock and you have 5 players with experience. Surely one of the Freshmen or Red-shirt Freshmen is going to make a name for himself. Whom? I don't know. Cox, Cherry, or Minter? Or, maybe one of the incoming freshmen? Or perhaps a Sophomore? For Tupa or Harris to move into the rotation wouldn't be surprising, either. I think the WR group this year is going to be one of the better groups under Solich.

So, one of the best lines under Solich, one of the best WR groups, and good running backs. Only the TE position is a question mark on offense. Add in a year of experience, and an off-season to get more familiar with the offense and to understand what he could have done better, and Rourke should have a very good year.

White 99 receptions, 1633 yards, 16.5 yards/catch, 10 tds
Meyer 37 receptions, 517 yards, 14.0 yards/catch, 2 tds
Odom 20 receptions, 308 yards, 15.4 yards/catch, 3 tds
Ball 16 receptions, 212 yards, 16.3 yards/catch, 2 tds
Knock 4 receptions, 25 yards, 6.3 yards/catch, 1 td
Bryan Long Jr., Matt Seymour, and Connor Brown each have 1 career reception, too. The running backs all have catches as well:
Ouellette - 22 for 171 yards, 3 tds
Irons - 17 for 129 yards
Ross - 2 for 13 yards
Burroughs - 2 for 11 yards

All together, that's over 200 catches for over 3000 yards.

Last Edited: 7/12/2018 2:00:23 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/12/2018 2:58:11 PM 
Speaking of the WR corps....I really like the Papi White like true freshman Jerome Buckner and Tyler Walton.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/12/2018 3:51:49 PM 
Doc Bobcat wrote:
Speaking of the WR corps....I really like the Papi White like true freshman Jerome Buckner and Tyler Walton.

I'm right with you Doc, so watch it be Gouin and Hooks that excel. ;)

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/12/2018 6:44:56 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Jordan Lynch & Chandler Harnish, NIU.
Alan

Lefevour ran for 2948 yards and 47 TDs in his career.



Thanks for the primers, just looked up the stats for those three and there are interesting data points:

Lefevour started all four years and averaged 25.5 passing and 12 running TD per season, which aligns with my thought.

Harnish started two seasons, and in those two averaged 24.5 passing and nine running TD per season, which aligns with my thought.

Lynch started two seasons, and in those two averaged 24.5 passing and 21 rushing TD per those two seasons, which more aligns with Ground Canada's present stats, although Lynch on paper looks much more pass effective/dual threat than Nate is presently.

And using those examples, the thing that stands out to me re: Nate v the other three is that Nate is far more slight of build that those three, and especially more slight than Lynch. I just hope Nate can take fewer hits in the next two years than he did last season.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/12/2018 9:07:45 PM 
If we just go by the very last game Rourke played, he is the throwing QB we’re looking for. He threw 2 beautiful TD passes in the Bahamas Bowl (while NOT running for any TDs), one a beautiful 60 yard plus bomb that couldn’t have been thrown much better.

They always say a player’s greatest amount of growth comes in their 2nd year. This is Rourke’s 2nd year and first offseason as the unquestioned starter. I think we’ll see a lot of growth out of Rourke.

What I especially like this year, compared to other years (the post-TT years), is the QB depth. Maxwell could start for most MAC teams, and Joe Milton has had excellent reviews.
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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/13/2018 12:17:58 AM 
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:
Maxwell could start for most MAC teams, and Joe Milton has had excellent reviews.


That’s debatable, and who is Joe Milton?
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/13/2018 7:38:30 AM 
Sam bobcat wrote:
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:
Maxwell could start for most MAC teams, and Joe Milton has had excellent reviews.


That’s debatable, and who is Joe Milton?


Thinking he means Mischler not Milton. At QB, Keszei will have two years left post Rourke/Maxwell. Mischler will be pushed by Naylan Yates, a Rourke type, and Kurtis Rourke. Michler will have competition.

Last Edited: 7/13/2018 8:03:37 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Quarterback
   Posted: 7/13/2018 9:14:15 AM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:
Maxwell could start for most MAC teams, and Joe Milton has had excellent reviews.


That’s debatable, and who is Joe Milton?


Thinking he means Mischler not Milton. At QB, Keszei will have two years left post Rourke/Maxwell. Mischler will be pushed by Naylan Yates, a Rourke type, and Kurtis Rourke. Michler will have competition.


If it was Milton OUr Paradise would be Lost.
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