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Topic: RE: MAC Championship

Topic: RE: MAC Championship

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Bobcat1996
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Member Since: 1/2/2017
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 5:05:05 PM

I would ask this question to Bobcat fans. I know the answer for some already as they have made it perfectly clear with their comments over and over again. Scenario one: Ohio goes 1-3 in the non-league portion of the schedule and wins the East with a 5-3 record because of tiebreakers. They win the MACC in Detroit and lose the bowl game but they are league champs and end up with 7 wins and 7 losses. Scenario two: They win 3 out of 4 non-league games and win 7 MAC regular season games but lose the tiebreaker and don't go to Detroit. They end up winning a bowl game to finish 11-2. I know these scenarios aren't likely, but they are possible. Give me scenario two any day.

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 6:39:37 PM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

So a winning record with a bowl victory is better than a league championship - is that your point or only a certain type of winning record with a bowl victory?

OhioStunter
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Member Since: 2/18/2005
Location: Chicago
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 7:24:34 PM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

It is a fair question.

7-7 with a MACC and a bowl loss?

Or 11-2 and with no MACC and a bowl win?

By many definitions on this board, the 11-2 season would be a failure.

Mark Lembright '85
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Location: Highland Heights, OH
Post Count: 2,447

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 8:51:04 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

It is a fair question.

7-7 with a MACC and a bowl loss?

Or 11-2 and with no MACC and a bowl win?

By many definitions on this board, the 11-2 season would be a failure.

I think the difference is, in this scenario Ohio has done the 11-2 situation repeatedly (actually not even 11-2 but had a winning record and no Detroit). What it has not done in over two generations is win a MACC. Because of the all-too-long MACC drought, even at 7-7, the MACC is what I�d vote for. Ohio�s name goes on the MACC trophy, not it�s record (I assume).

bshot44
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/5/2017 11:59:57 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

It is a fair question.

7-7 with a MACC and a bowl loss?

Or 11-2 and with no MACC and a bowl win?

By many definitions on this board, the 11-2 season would be a failure.

Boy ... a lot of you like to paint with a broad brush.

This is me ... and me only typing here.

This year is not a "failure" as you have classified it, or as you said "by many definitions"

Ohio did fail to win the MAC ... again ... and again in a self-inflicted way.

8-4 is a fine year. Just fine. Just the same fine we've seen repeatedly...again and again and again.

You really feel satisfied with this season? Puffing your chest out? Braggin' bout dem Bobcats, are you?

I'm not. It was a total embarrassment how this season ended ... with more head scratching losses like in years past.

You put 11-2 out there like that happens for Ohio. It doesnt. EVER. They won 10 games ONCE in 13 years under Frank.

So your 11-win season is just as elusive as the MACC that's been missing for 50 years.

So to answer you question ... HELL YES I would take a 7-7 MACC year to finally get this 10 billion pound gorilla off the program's back over an 11-2 season littered with wins over Hampton, Kansas, UMass, Kent, Akron, BG, Miami, Buffalo, EMU, CMU & UAB.

Oh wait ... that was there for the taking this year and it didn't happen.

It would be far different if Ohio was, say NIU, and had 3 MACCs since 2005 ... or CMU. But Ohio hasn't won it in 50 years. Wouldn't you like to see it happen once ... more than an 11-2 season vs a hot garbage schedule?!?!

I, for one, am not saying a MACC-less season is a complete failure.

But it's just boring to watch the same movie play itself out every year.

I'd love an 11-2 season.

I'd love a 7-7 MACC season.

What I don't love or get jacked over is another 8-5, 5-3 season littered with What Ifs .... AGAIN

Last Edited: 12/6/2017 12:03:45 AM by bshot44

Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 8:17:05 AM

bshot44 wrote:

Boy ... a lot of you like to paint with a broad brush.

Funny you mention that.

bshot44 wrote:

You really feel satisfied with this season? Puffing your chest out? Braggin' bout dem Bobcats, are you?

Do you see the irony here, or is it lost on you?

Bobcat1996
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 8:32:41 AM

Football is a different beast as at the end of the regular season only two schools get to play for a MACC. In many of the other sports at the end of the regular season all or the majority of teams get an opportunity to win a championship. That is why I'd prefer the 11 win number two scenario. Others prefer scenario one. It doesn't make any of us right or wrong. That is why auto dealers sell Honda, Ford and Toyota. It is a matter of choice.

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 9:41:46 AM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

For me it just hurts that this should have been that 11 win season with a MACC. That's what drives everyone bonkers. We have the horses to go win, it's just the same thing every year happens in November.

We could have been coming off the lot with a nice looking car with all the gizmos. Instead, we came off the lot with a Mercury that is missing brakes.

GoCats105
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 10:01:00 AM

With all this discussion about the CFP and what the Power 5 conferences might try and do to change it, the one solution I keep seeing pop is the conferences getting rid of divisions altogether and just having the Top 2 teams in the league play each other for the championship. Personally I would love that idea for both power conferences and group of five.

That got me wondering how the MAC would look had it done this. I'm starting from the Year 2000 as a nice, even jumping off point.

2000: Western Michigan vs. Toledo

2001: Marshall vs. Miami (you might also say Toledo instead of Miami, schedules were weird back then)

2002: Marshall vs. Toledo

2003: Miami vs. Bowling Green (BG was a West Division team)

2004: Toledo/Miami/NIU (Toledo had beaten NIU and lost to Miami earlier in the year. Each school only had one conference loss; Miami lost to 2-loss Marshall. Would be interesting to see how that one shook out.)

2005: NIU vs. Toledo

2006: Ohio vs. Central Michigan

2007: Central Michigan vs. Miami/BG/Ball State (Another year with an unbalanced conference schedule. Each of them had 2 conference losses, with BG having one extra conference game which they won, giving them a better record)

2008: Ball State vs. Central Michigan

2009: Ohio vs. Central Michigan

2010: Miami/Toledo vs. NIU (Toledo and Miami had the same conference record, but didn't play each other so there is no tiebreaker.)

2011: NIU vs. Toledo (This was Ohio's best season, winning 10 games. But they wouldn't have made the conference title game because of the back-to-back close losses to Buffalo and Ball State in October. Toledo and NIU only had only loss each.)

2012: Kent State vs. NIU

2013: NIU vs. BG/Ball State (No head-to-head here either, but Ball State lost to NIU by 21 earlier in the season.)

2014: NIU vs. Toledo

2015: BG vs. NIU/WMU/Toledo/CMU (Each West leader finished 6-2 with them all beating each other up. I'm assuming whichever tiebreaker was used then, it would be used again, which meant NIU goes to the title game.)

2016: WMU vs. Ohio (Toledo and Miami also finished with two conference losses, but Ohio held both tiebreakers.)

2017: Toledo vs. Akron/CMU/NIU (Toledo beat all three in the regular season and CMU has a tiebreaker over NIU, but didn't play Akron.)

bshot44
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Member Since: 2/12/2012
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 10:19:29 AM

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Boy ... a lot of you like to paint with a broad brush.

Funny you mention that.

bshot44 wrote:

You really feel satisfied with this season? Puffing your chest out? Braggin' bout dem Bobcats, are you?

Do you see the irony here, or is it lost on you?

Enlighten me, Bobby.

Who am I painting with a broad brush? What's the irony?

I am simply responding to what people type.

OhioStunter wrote:

By many definitions on this board, the 11-2 season would be a failure

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Scenario two: They win 3 out of 4 non-league games and win 7 MAC regular season games but lose the tiebreaker and don't go to Detroit. They end up winning a bowl game to finish 11-2. Give me scenario two any day.

Robert Fox wrote:

I'm not even sure many care whether it's a New Year's bowl or some other day of the month.

OhioStunter wrote:

What is the real value of a MAC title in football?

Other than a banner and sweatshirt, does it really change the outcome of where you play?

I think some people put way too much stock into a short-term value of MAC title over the overall big picture of the program's success.

To me .... these are pretty obvious they are in the opinion that a MACC is just not a big deal to them.

Last Edited: 12/6/2017 10:23:28 AM by bshot44

Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 10:29:26 AM

Yep. Lost on you.

BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 10:34:14 AM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

No, in football your Championship opportunity comes from the body of your work. Not just one game.

As for the choices of a Bowl Win or a MAC Title, we've now been 49 years without a MAC Title, anyone who believes that winning a Bowl game (especially against the opponents we've been getting is more relevant) is being an apologist. The team its self has a MAC Title higher on their goal list than a Bowl win....Face it, just getting to a Bowl in today's world is quite easy, much more so than winning a MACC.

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 10:47:16 AM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

[QUOTE=Bobcat1996]

We could have been coming off the lot with a nice looking car with all the gizmos. Instead, we came off the lot with a Mercury that is missing brakes.

Do they still make a Mercury?

Buckeye to Bobcat
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Member Since: 9/10/2013
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 11:19:09 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

[QUOTE=Bobcat1996]

We could have been coming off the lot with a nice looking car with all the gizmos. Instead, we came off the lot with a Mercury that is missing brakes.

Do they still make a Mercury?

bshot44
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Member Since: 2/12/2012
Post Count: 2,211

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 11:43:45 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Yep.

Bowl is almost a reward for simply having a pulse in today's CFB

I am a bit stunned that people would rate a bowl win over UAB over a MAC Title.

But hey! To each their own!

What do I know ... I'm just a jackass that doesn't understand the irony. Right, Bobby Fox!

OU_Country
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 12:36:34 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

Winning the MAC in football is no guarantee of a New Year's bowl. I'm not even sure many care whether it's a New Year's bowl or some other day of the month. Now, if winning the MAC in football got you into a post-season tournament of some sort, then I think you'd see far more passion for it.

Just my opinion. Has no bearing on what the players or coaches think, so stop throwing the "we should drop to FCS" stuff.

If we're not wanting to win conference championships, then why bother having college athletics then? I would have requested my tuition dollars be yanked away from athletics so that I could have had saved during my time at OU if we're not going to want to compete for conference championships.

Agreed. Unless I'm mistaken, that's the primary goal of every team, in every sport, in every conference at every level. In the MAC, unless a team is at a VERY high level in a given season, the MAC Championship is probably the most important thing on their goal list. In football, as a fan, going to Detroit is more interesting and important to me than whatever bowl game they may end up in.

Like I said, this is my opinion, not the teams, not the players, not the coaches.

That's fair. As a fan, I place more value on beating the peer institutions and winning the conference. The bowl game isn't of real significance to me personally. I do think at some point soon, this FBS "playoff" and the debate of P5 vs G5 is gonna come to a head. I'm not trying to promote it, but I'm not opposed to the whole MAC moving to FCS to be honest. I'd still buy tickets, and still follow the team.

GoCats105 wrote:

But it's not guaranteed that a MAC title will get you a lower tier bowl every season, either. If you have a year like NIU or WMU had, you get a chance to get a big one. The MAC title at least gets you in the discussion for that. Without it, you're right, it essentially doesn't matter which bowl you get. And more often than not, yeah you're not gonna get that big bowl even with the MAC title. But you can still hang your hat on that MAC title.

It all goes back to what the goals of the program are. I would assume, in no particular order they are: MAC title, winning record, beat Miami, beat Marshall (in a given year they play), graduate players, stay out of jail, be nice to women and children, sip lemonade on a front porch swing, eat delicious steak, etc.

I'm in for the delicious steaks! When are we all doing that?

Robert Fox
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 1:41:35 PM

bshot44 wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

No, you're a damned idiot who can't read. No one said a win over UAB would be better than a MACC. But keep telling yourself that, you moron.

Alan Swank
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 2:07:15 PM

Come on guys even our friend Monroe rarely stooped to junior high playground name calling. You can tell when we hit that "between season" - between our last real football game and our first real basketball game. With 15 work days left at most for many of in 2017, let's focus on the important things in life like getting the good guy elected in Alabama.

bshot44
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Post Count: 2,211

Status: Offline

RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 2:43:42 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

No, you're a damned idiot who can't read. No one said a win over UAB would be better than a MACC. But keep telling yourself that, you moron.

Good to see I've graduated from idiot to damned idiot.

And then to moron!

'tis the season!

Thanks, Bobby! Happy Holidays to you too!

Sam bobcat
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 3:56:38 PM

The constant negativity from some of you (you know who you are) is just as repetitive and lame as the football you claim we play. You say you are just passionate Bobcat fans, but it seems you are only fans of winning. Not football, or Ohio football. It seems only winning championships and rolling over our competition is acceptable. All else is underachieving and deserving of our condemnation. If we can't find enjoyment or positivity in anything other than first place, it says more about ourselves than it does the program.

bshot44
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 4:38:09 PM

Sam bobcat wrote:

Let me respond to your not-so-veiled finger point at me .... (and maybe others)

You, again, are painting with a pretty broad brush.

I've never said that "winning championships and rolling over competition" is the only acceptable outcome .... nor do I think some others that share my viewpoint.

But losing games year after year after year that are mind-blowing gets old.

Are we just so supposed to shrug our shoulders .... grab our white sneakers ... take a huge sip of Solich Punch and sit back and smile?

I've said an 8-4 season is fine. Not great ... and certainly not bad.

But when you consider how they got to 8-4 .... it's the same song on repeat that we've heard for years.

Inexplicable losses (at Akron, homecoming vs. CMU and at Buffalo) that cost Ohio a MAC championship.

Why is this so hard to grasp .... that some of us get frustrated when Ohio trips on their own shoelaces and falls flat on their face when they're winning the race .... inevitably causing them to lose the race.

Doesn't make us worse Bobcat fans than you or Bobby Fox or any of the others who seem to be completely content with the status quo.

You and others can rationalize the losses all you want ... if that makes you feel better, so be it.

Losing to Purdue ... or Tennessee ... or even Marshall is totally understandable. Even losses to NIU or Toledo .... or even WMU or BG during their runs .... I get that.

BUT .....

Losing to 2-10 Texas State (2016)?

Losing to 5-7 Buffalo (2015) by 25?

Losing to 4-8 Kent (2013) by 31?

Losing at 4-8 Miami when you're ranked #25 in the country (2012)?

Losing to 3-9 Buffalo (2011)?

Losing to 5-7 Kent with MAC East on the line in season finale (2010)?

Losing to 5-7 Kent (2009)?

Lose to 3-9 Kent, 5-7 Buffalo & 4-8 Akron (2007) needing just one win in those to go to a bowl game?

Losing to 4-8 Bowling Green (2006)?

That's at least one absolutely puzzling loss in 10 of Frank's 13 seasons ... the only ones left out where the 4-7 (2005) and 4-8 (2008) seasons along with the forgettable 6-6 2014 season.

Every other one of those was a season where Ohio had a chance to win the MACC (and didn't) and finished bowl eligible.

That's where the frustration lies.

It happens EVERY. FREAKIN. YEAR.

I don't care if Ohio wins every game 21-20 ...

It just gets old losing inexplicable games every year to teams Ohio is unquestionably better than.

Trash me if you'd like.

Call me an idiot, freaking geek, moron, jackass, d-bag, etc .....

Doesn't change the facts. Ohio loses games that make no sense almost every year! And a lot of times it's cost them either a MAC title or taking a step towards that next level (like NIU and Toledo have reached over the last decade)

Last Edited: 12/6/2017 4:41:28 PM by bshot44

OU_Country
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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 4:42:31 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

And the delicious steaks! Let's not forget those. GoCats105 had the best idea I've seen in this thread with those steaks.

(I'm imagining one right now with a glass of J.O's Oil of Aphrodite)

bshot44
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Post Count: 2,211

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 4:47:57 PM

OU_Country wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

And the delicious steaks! Let's not forget those. GoCats105 had the best idea I've seen in this thread with those steaks.

(I'm imagining one right now with a glass of J.O's Oil of Aphrodite)

Medium rare with a Meigs Co. Black IPA ...

You buying?

OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

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RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 5:14:19 PM

bshot44 wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

And the delicious steaks! Let's not forget those. GoCats105 had the best idea I've seen in this thread with those steaks.

(I'm imagining one right now with a glass of J.O's Oil of Aphrodite)

Medium rare with a Meigs Co. Black IPA ...

You buying?

Not if you're having it with that beer. Ha! :)

We aren't having steaks, or talking much football, but we are convening sometime for basketball Sunday.

bshot44
General User

Member Since: 2/12/2012
Post Count: 2,211

Status: Offline

RE: MAC Championship

Posted: 12/6/2017 5:23:52 PM

OU_Country wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

And the delicious steaks! Let's not forget those. GoCats105 had the best idea I've seen in this thread with those steaks.

(I'm imagining one right now with a glass of J.O's Oil of Aphrodite)

Medium rare with a Meigs Co. Black IPA ...

You buying?

Not if you're having it with that beer. Ha! :)

We aren't having steaks, or talking much football, but we are convening sometime for basketball Sunday.

OUCH! No love for the Meigs Co. Black IPA!

I'm on the fence for Sunday .... might be a game day decision. Haven't done a game yet ... this might be best of the bunch in the Convo until MACtion starts.

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