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Ohio Football
Topic:  RE: Under Center

Topic:  RE: Under Center
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LuckySparrow
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Member Since: 10/15/2012
Location: Illinois
Post Count: 1,720

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 11:37:31 PM 
L.C. wrote:
It's not at all weird. Teams have a finite amount of time they are allowed to practice. Each coach has to make a determination of what things they should practice in order to help the team the most. I don't think anyone disputes that there is a benefit to having plays where the QB goes under center. Based on what we see at other schools, some coaches feel that the cost in practice time is worth the benefit, but most do not.

I don't think it's a "no brain" decision, and the fact that coaches are split on this concurs with that. The only people who are clearly in the wrong here are those that think that it doesn't take significant practice time to have it as a workable alternative. The three fumbles in the scrimmage show what can go wrong if you don't practice it enough.


I simply reject your idea that now having to practice under center plays is going to potentially hurt other areas of play. Partially because I think this will be used sparingly - maybe 4-5 times a game if that. I understand the fumble risk.

Basically, a world exists where they can build these formations into the playbook and not sacrifice much, if anything, in other practice categories.

Though I am not a coach and do not know how to maximize the productivity of college practices.


What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

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Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/19/2017 12:10:15 AM 
Sparrow is right. This can't be so difficult to pick up that it materially detracts from practicing anything else that's in any way important.

Asking us casual observers what to practice less of us lacks logic...We don't now know what they practice and we don't coach the team so are not charged with specific planning. Ain't our responsib. But it is that of the coaches. MACC.


The thought that some percentage of other teams which use the pistol never go under center is the wrong perspective. It's about doing what works, about getting a MACC, about becoming indeniable--it's not about doing what everyone else does.





Where's the band?!
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/19/2017 1:02:09 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Sparrow is right. This can't be so difficult to pick up that it materially detracts from practicing anything else that's in any way important.

Asking us casual observers what to practice less of us lacks logic...We don't now know what they practice and we don't coach the team so are not charged with specific planning. Ain't our responsib. But it is that of the coaches. MACC.


The thought that some percentage of other teams which use the pistol never go under center is the wrong perspective. It's about doing what works, about getting a MACC, about becoming indeniable--it's not about doing what everyone else does.


In the words of a legendary (in his own mind) BA poster, WHATEVER!


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,052

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/19/2017 8:07:46 AM 
L.C. wrote:
...The only people who are clearly in the wrong here are those that think that it doesn't take significant practice time to have it as a workable alternative. The three fumbles in the scrimmage show what can go wrong if you don't practice it enough.

I rarely resort to quoting myself, but I will do so here. The only people that are clearly wrong are those that think that they can just add under center plays without devoting significant practice time to perfecting snaps directly to the QB. They make the erroneous assumption that "everyone knows how to do that". I believe Pruehs was cited as saying he had never done one since 9th or 10th grade, and for Maxwell it was the same.

Let's guess that they spent 10% of their practice time in the Spring working on this. That's time they couldn't spend working on something else. Whatever time they spent was clearly not enough, because when they tried to actually use the formation in the scrimmage, they repeatedly fumbled the snaps. Thus, this Fall they will have to either abandon it, or put more time into working on this. I have no idea whether they will consider the direct snaps to have been a failed experiment, or whether they will continue to work on them in the Fall. I certainly hope they won't try to use it in games unless they can use it without a high risk of fumbling.

Again, BTC argued that the main reason why most college teams never go under center is that it takes significant practice time to get it right. I was skeptical at the time, but Spring practice has proven him to be correct.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,549

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/19/2017 8:19:05 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
It's about doing what works

How many MACC did we win during the 30+ years prior to Solich where we ran plays under center?

You've again failed to identify the real cause of Ohio's lack of a MACC.


I've seen crazier things happen.

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Maddog13
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Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Post Count: 597

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/19/2017 9:04:58 AM 
Perhaps, we should all, myself included, invest in classes from CoachTube.com to thus help the Ohio Football program solve this perplexing dilemma. What it hints at to me is that Ohio once again lacks the kind of skill players needed to make the shotgun work, and that Frank would just prefer to stop playing games and lead with what is a consistent strength with the Ohio offense: running. Combine that with a brutal defense and the hope is that we can just wear people down. There is such a thing as a five foot drop in football, which, yes, would allow us to continue to work on a passing game as well, but I suspect that such a device as well would take valuable time away from...practicing exactly what? I, for one, would like to see Frank have the daring to bring back the Wishbone Formation; perhaps, he could even sneak himself in for a play or two.
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Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/19/2017 10:10:40 AM 
OCF--how about responding to the points made (in addition to a fine 'whatever').

Optimist--I'm game. What is the reason that we haven't won a MACC in nearly 50 years, then?


L.C. Three fumbles in a scrimmage held well before the start of the season. Heck, well before the start of fall practice. And, we should be worried mightily about this new, small change? No faith that we can get it together with a little more work?

That logic tends toward discarding any change if it doesn't immediately work well.

If we should worry a lot if it doesn't work quickly, then shouldn't we worry a lot about a coach who no MACC 12 years?






Where's the band?!
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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,052

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/19/2017 11:34:37 AM 
No, Monroe, I'm not saying they should discard it. I'm saying that it takes work to get it right. They have done some work, but not enough, obviously. The fact that it takes work to get it right was Billy's original point. You don't just go out and line up and have it run right.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/19/2017 11:43:26 PM 
Agreed; that is obvious.



Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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