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Topic:  Would you want your son QB to play here?

Topic:  Would you want your son QB to play here?
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Kevin Finnegan
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Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 1,083

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  Message Not Read  Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 4:57:15 PM 
I love OHIO, have traveled to many games, have indoctrinated my kids into the club. But, as I watch another year of middling QB play at OHIO, I wonder if my son was a star QB, would I want him here?

In the 12 seasons on Frank Solich, check out the QB development, or lack thereof.

2005--Austen Everson 105/220 1151 yds, 4 TD, 11 INT...freshman Brandon Jones gets little bit of action.

2006--Austen Everson again, similar numbers 137/253 1356 yds, 7 TD, 8 INT, Brad Bower, transfer from Illinois gets some action 41/72 426 yds, 1 TD, 7 INT...Jones redshirts, team makes bowl game, plays more games, Everson a definite leader.

2007--Brad Bowers becomes starter, not spectacular numbers: 127/232 1767 yds, 11 TD, 10 INT...Theo Scott (another transfer, JUCO) gets some action, goes 63/109 for 743 yds, 5 TD, 3 INT...still no development of either recruited QB Brandon Jones or Josh Febus.

2008--Boo Jackson (transfer) in 1st year has best OHIO QB year thus far under Frank, goes 185/306 2355 yds, 19 TD, 12 INT, Theo, in limited duty due to injury I believe, goes 29/44 247 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT...no Jones or Febus

2009--Roles reverse from previous year, Theo gets more action 199/344 2369 yds, 20 TD, 11 INT. Jackson, injured, goes 17/30 194 1 TD, 0 INT...freshman Tyler Tettleton does some mop up duty.

2010--Boo Jackson returns following injury, goes 149/245, 1897 yds, 18 TD, 17 INT, no other QBs really see action other than some minor Phil Bates action... Tettleton redshirts

2011--Tettleton, as a sophomore, becomes the first HS QB recruited by Frank to start a game. He puts together one of the best seasons ever by an OHIO Qb in his first year, going 265/413 3306 yds, 28 TD, 10 INT, also rushes for 658 yards. He's set to be a legend at OHIO.

2012--Another good year by Tettleton, maybe not as flashy as the year before, but still great. 228/367 2844 yds, 18 TD, only 4 INT, though his rushing prowess is scaled back significantly.

2013--TT is a senior. Here it is, the BIG YEAR....except, while the numbers are pretty darn good, it doesn't feel like a jump. He goes 230/371 2851 yds, 21 TD, 12 INT. Statistically, his worst year, and he all but stopped running the ball (24 yards total).

2014--Derrius Vick moves to top of QB ladder after a couple years in the system. Doesn't hold on to the top spot and turns in a mediocre at best year. 84/160 1156 yds, 8 TD, 4 INT. Walk-on JD Sprague goes 98/202, 1236 yds, 3 TD, 5 INT

2015--Two QBs return, Vick and Sprague. Vick goes 158/247 1809 yds, 10 TD, 6 INT, Sprague goes 63/115 917 yds, 7 TD, 3 INT.

2016--Windham, who feels like he's been in our system for decades, finally gets the nod as a senior. Despite having the ability to develop in the system, is demoted to backup for Maxwell.

So, when you look back at our starters, from Austen to Brad to Theo to Boo to Tyler to Vick and Sprague, can you really identify somebody who got better the longer they were in our system?

Austen's 2nd year was better than his first.

Brad never really put up any good numbers.

Theo really only had one year as a starter.

Boo was better year one than he was year three.

TT was better his first year as a starter than he was either of the other two years.

Vick never showed any growth and staff never seemed to be impressed.

Sprague was a stop-gap, tough as he was.

Windham, in his final year, couldn't maintain the starter role.

Then there are the 'highly recruited' names like Brandon Jones, Greg Windham, Joey Duckworth who never develop. Is that bad recruiting or is it poor development at the QB position? Really, Duckworth can't start over Maxwell, whose accuracy is questionable at best?

Would I want my son to grow into a QB at OHIO? Would Coach Burrow?
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bshot44
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Member Since: 2/12/2012
Post Count: 2,211

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 4:59:36 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
I love OHIO, have traveled to many games, have indoctrinated my kids into the club. But, as I watch another year of middling QB play at OHIO, I wonder if my son was a star QB, would I want him here?

In the 12 seasons on Frank Solich, check out the QB development, or lack thereof.

2005--Austen Everson 105/220 1151 yds, 4 TD, 11 INT...freshman Brandon Jones gets little bit of action.

2006--Austen Everson again, similar numbers 137/253 1356 yds, 7 TD, 8 INT, Brad Bower, transfer from Illinois gets some action 41/72 426 yds, 1 TD, 7 INT...Jones redshirts, team makes bowl game, plays more games, Everson a definite leader.

2007--Brad Bowers becomes starter, not spectacular numbers: 127/232 1767 yds, 11 TD, 10 INT...Theo Scott (another transfer, JUCO) gets some action, goes 63/109 for 743 yds, 5 TD, 3 INT...still no development of either recruited QB Brandon Jones or Josh Febus.

2008--Boo Jackson (transfer) in 1st year has best OHIO QB year thus far under Frank, goes 185/306 2355 yds, 19 TD, 12 INT, Theo, in limited duty due to injury I believe, goes 29/44 247 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT...no Jones or Febus

2009--Roles reverse from previous year, Theo gets more action 199/344 2369 yds, 20 TD, 11 INT. Jackson, injured, goes 17/30 194 1 TD, 0 INT...freshman Tyler Tettleton does some mop up duty.

2010--Boo Jackson returns following injury, goes 149/245, 1897 yds, 18 TD, 17 INT, no other QBs really see action other than some minor Phil Bates action... Tettleton redshirts

2011--Tettleton, as a sophomore, becomes the first HS QB recruited by Frank to start a game. He puts together one of the best seasons ever by an OHIO Qb in his first year, going 265/413 3306 yds, 28 TD, 10 INT, also rushes for 658 yards. He's set to be a legend at OHIO.

2012--Another good year by Tettleton, maybe not as flashy as the year before, but still great. 228/367 2844 yds, 18 TD, only 4 INT, though his rushing prowess is scaled back significantly.

2013--TT is a senior. Here it is, the BIG YEAR....except, while the numbers are pretty darn good, it doesn't feel like a jump. He goes 230/371 2851 yds, 21 TD, 12 INT. Statistically, his worst year, and he all but stopped running the ball (24 yards total).

2014--Derrius Vick moves to top of QB ladder after a couple years in the system. Doesn't hold on to the top spot and turns in a mediocre at best year. 84/160 1156 yds, 8 TD, 4 INT. Walk-on JD Sprague goes 98/202, 1236 yds, 3 TD, 5 INT

2015--Two QBs return, Vick and Sprague. Vick goes 158/247 1809 yds, 10 TD, 6 INT, Sprague goes 63/115 917 yds, 7 TD, 3 INT.

2016--Windham, who feels like he's been in our system for decades, finally gets the nod as a senior. Despite having the ability to develop in the system, is demoted to backup for Maxwell.

So, when you look back at our starters, from Austen to Brad to Theo to Boo to Tyler to Vick and Sprague, can you really identify somebody who got better the longer they were in our system?

Austen's 2nd year was better than his first.

Brad never really put up any good numbers.

Theo really only had one year as a starter.

Boo was better year one than he was year three.

TT was better his first year as a starter than he was either of the other two years.

Vick never showed any growth and staff never seemed to be impressed.

Sprague was a stop-gap, tough as he was.

Windham, in his final year, couldn't maintain the starter role.

Then there are the 'highly recruited' names like Brandon Jones, Greg Windham, Joey Duckworth who never develop. Is that bad recruiting or is it poor development at the QB position? Really, Duckworth can't start over Maxwell, whose accuracy is questionable at best?

Would I want my son to grow into a QB at OHIO? Would Coach Burrow?


This is one of the most depressing things I've read in a while. Yikes. When it's spelled out, it's quite sad. Good post.
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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,747

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 5:16:27 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
I love OHIO, have traveled to many games, have indoctrinated my kids into the club. But, as I watch another year of middling QB play at OHIO, I wonder if my son was a star QB, would I want him here?

In the 12 seasons on Frank Solich, check out the QB development, or lack thereof.

2005--Austen Everson 105/220 1151 yds, 4 TD, 11 INT...freshman Brandon Jones gets little bit of action.

2006--Austen Everson again, similar numbers 137/253 1356 yds, 7 TD, 8 INT, Brad Bower, transfer from Illinois gets some action 41/72 426 yds, 1 TD, 7 INT...Jones redshirts, team makes bowl game, plays more games, Everson a definite leader.

2007--Brad Bowers becomes starter, not spectacular numbers: 127/232 1767 yds, 11 TD, 10 INT...Theo Scott (another transfer, JUCO) gets some action, goes 63/109 for 743 yds, 5 TD, 3 INT...still no development of either recruited QB Brandon Jones or Josh Febus.

2008--Boo Jackson (transfer) in 1st year has best OHIO QB year thus far under Frank, goes 185/306 2355 yds, 19 TD, 12 INT, Theo, in limited duty due to injury I believe, goes 29/44 247 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT...no Jones or Febus

2009--Roles reverse from previous year, Theo gets more action 199/344 2369 yds, 20 TD, 11 INT. Jackson, injured, goes 17/30 194 1 TD, 0 INT...freshman Tyler Tettleton does some mop up duty.

2010--Boo Jackson returns following injury, goes 149/245, 1897 yds, 18 TD, 17 INT, no other QBs really see action other than some minor Phil Bates action... Tettleton redshirts

2011--Tettleton, as a sophomore, becomes the first HS QB recruited by Frank to start a game. He puts together one of the best seasons ever by an OHIO Qb in his first year, going 265/413 3306 yds, 28 TD, 10 INT, also rushes for 658 yards. He's set to be a legend at OHIO.

2012--Another good year by Tettleton, maybe not as flashy as the year before, but still great. 228/367 2844 yds, 18 TD, only 4 INT, though his rushing prowess is scaled back significantly.

2013--TT is a senior. Here it is, the BIG YEAR....except, while the numbers are pretty darn good, it doesn't feel like a jump. He goes 230/371 2851 yds, 21 TD, 12 INT. Statistically, his worst year, and he all but stopped running the ball (24 yards total).

2014--Derrius Vick moves to top of QB ladder after a couple years in the system. Doesn't hold on to the top spot and turns in a mediocre at best year. 84/160 1156 yds, 8 TD, 4 INT. Walk-on JD Sprague goes 98/202, 1236 yds, 3 TD, 5 INT

2015--Two QBs return, Vick and Sprague. Vick goes 158/247 1809 yds, 10 TD, 6 INT, Sprague goes 63/115 917 yds, 7 TD, 3 INT.

2016--Windham, who feels like he's been in our system for decades, finally gets the nod as a senior. Despite having the ability to develop in the system, is demoted to backup for Maxwell.

So, when you look back at our starters, from Austen to Brad to Theo to Boo to Tyler to Vick and Sprague, can you really identify somebody who got better the longer they were in our system?

Austen's 2nd year was better than his first.

Brad never really put up any good numbers.

Theo really only had one year as a starter.

Boo was better year one than he was year three.

TT was better his first year as a starter than he was either of the other two years.

Vick never showed any growth and staff never seemed to be impressed.

Sprague was a stop-gap, tough as he was.

Windham, in his final year, couldn't maintain the starter role.

Then there are the 'highly recruited' names like Brandon Jones, Greg Windham, Joey Duckworth who never develop. Is that bad recruiting or is it poor development at the QB position? Really, Duckworth can't start over Maxwell, whose accuracy is questionable at best?

Would I want my son to grow into a QB at OHIO? Would Coach Burrow?



I've been asking this question for 2 years.
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allen
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Member Since: 1/24/2006
Post Count: 4,630

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 5:32:27 PM 
SBH wrote:
finnOhio wrote:
I love OHIO, have traveled to many games, have indoctrinated my kids into the club. But, as I watch another year of middling QB play at OHIO, I wonder if my son was a star QB, would I want him here?

In the 12 seasons on Frank Solich, check out the QB development, or lack thereof.

2005--Austen Everson 105/220 1151 yds, 4 TD, 11 INT...freshman Brandon Jones gets little bit of action.

2006--Austen Everson again, similar numbers 137/253 1356 yds, 7 TD, 8 INT, Brad Bower, transfer from Illinois gets some action 41/72 426 yds, 1 TD, 7 INT...Jones redshirts, team makes bowl game, plays more games, Everson a definite leader.

2007--Brad Bowers becomes starter, not spectacular numbers: 127/232 1767 yds, 11 TD, 10 INT...Theo Scott (another transfer, JUCO) gets some action, goes 63/109 for 743 yds, 5 TD, 3 INT...still no development of either recruited QB Brandon Jones or Josh Febus.

2008--Boo Jackson (transfer) in 1st year has best OHIO QB year thus far under Frank, goes 185/306 2355 yds, 19 TD, 12 INT, Theo, in limited duty due to injury I believe, goes 29/44 247 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT...no Jones or Febus

2009--Roles reverse from previous year, Theo gets more action 199/344 2369 yds, 20 TD, 11 INT. Jackson, injured, goes 17/30 194 1 TD, 0 INT...freshman Tyler Tettleton does some mop up duty.

2010--Boo Jackson returns following injury, goes 149/245, 1897 yds, 18 TD, 17 INT, no other QBs really see action other than some minor Phil Bates action... Tettleton redshirts

2011--Tettleton, as a sophomore, becomes the first HS QB recruited by Frank to start a game. He puts together one of the best seasons ever by an OHIO Qb in his first year, going 265/413 3306 yds, 28 TD, 10 INT, also rushes for 658 yards. He's set to be a legend at OHIO.

2012--Another good year by Tettleton, maybe not as flashy as the year before, but still great. 228/367 2844 yds, 18 TD, only 4 INT, though his rushing prowess is scaled back significantly.

2013--TT is a senior. Here it is, the BIG YEAR....except, while the numbers are pretty darn good, it doesn't feel like a jump. He goes 230/371 2851 yds, 21 TD, 12 INT. Statistically, his worst year, and he all but stopped running the ball (24 yards total).

2014--Derrius Vick moves to top of QB ladder after a couple years in the system. Doesn't hold on to the top spot and turns in a mediocre at best year. 84/160 1156 yds, 8 TD, 4 INT. Walk-on JD Sprague goes 98/202, 1236 yds, 3 TD, 5 INT

2015--Two QBs return, Vick and Sprague. Vick goes 158/247 1809 yds, 10 TD, 6 INT, Sprague goes 63/115 917 yds, 7 TD, 3 INT.

2016--Windham, who feels like he's been in our system for decades, finally gets the nod as a senior. Despite having the ability to develop in the system, is demoted to backup for Maxwell.

So, when you look back at our starters, from Austen to Brad to Theo to Boo to Tyler to Vick and Sprague, can you really identify somebody who got better the longer they were in our system?

Austen's 2nd year was better than his first.

Brad never really put up any good numbers.

Theo really only had one year as a starter.

Boo was better year one than he was year three.

TT was better his first year as a starter than he was either of the other two years.

Vick never showed any growth and staff never seemed to be impressed.

Sprague was a stop-gap, tough as he was.

Windham, in his final year, couldn't maintain the starter role.

Then there are the 'highly recruited' names like Brandon Jones, Greg Windham, Joey Duckworth who never develop. Is that bad recruiting or is it poor development at the QB position? Really, Duckworth can't start over Maxwell, whose accuracy is questionable at best?

Would I want my son to grow into a QB at OHIO? Would Coach Burrow?



I've been asking this question for 2 years.



none of these QB's came in highly touted, Boo Jackson was a four star by a mediocre site. The two that we have coming in next year look the part and were rated 55 and 60 in the country respectively. TT regressed because he was spoiled, DV was consistently average and Boo Jackson was inconsistent.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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bshot44
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Member Since: 2/12/2012
Post Count: 2,211

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 7:15:21 PM 
allen wrote:
SBH wrote:
finnOhio wrote:
I love OHIO, have traveled to many games, have indoctrinated my kids into the club. But, as I watch another year of middling QB play at OHIO, I wonder if my son was a star QB, would I want him here?

In the 12 seasons on Frank Solich, check out the QB development, or lack thereof.

2005--Austen Everson 105/220 1151 yds, 4 TD, 11 INT...freshman Brandon Jones gets little bit of action.

2006--Austen Everson again, similar numbers 137/253 1356 yds, 7 TD, 8 INT, Brad Bower, transfer from Illinois gets some action 41/72 426 yds, 1 TD, 7 INT...Jones redshirts, team makes bowl game, plays more games, Everson a definite leader.

2007--Brad Bowers becomes starter, not spectacular numbers: 127/232 1767 yds, 11 TD, 10 INT...Theo Scott (another transfer, JUCO) gets some action, goes 63/109 for 743 yds, 5 TD, 3 INT...still no development of either recruited QB Brandon Jones or Josh Febus.

2008--Boo Jackson (transfer) in 1st year has best OHIO QB year thus far under Frank, goes 185/306 2355 yds, 19 TD, 12 INT, Theo, in limited duty due to injury I believe, goes 29/44 247 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT...no Jones or Febus

2009--Roles reverse from previous year, Theo gets more action 199/344 2369 yds, 20 TD, 11 INT. Jackson, injured, goes 17/30 194 1 TD, 0 INT...freshman Tyler Tettleton does some mop up duty.

2010--Boo Jackson returns following injury, goes 149/245, 1897 yds, 18 TD, 17 INT, no other QBs really see action other than some minor Phil Bates action... Tettleton redshirts

2011--Tettleton, as a sophomore, becomes the first HS QB recruited by Frank to start a game. He puts together one of the best seasons ever by an OHIO Qb in his first year, going 265/413 3306 yds, 28 TD, 10 INT, also rushes for 658 yards. He's set to be a legend at OHIO.

2012--Another good year by Tettleton, maybe not as flashy as the year before, but still great. 228/367 2844 yds, 18 TD, only 4 INT, though his rushing prowess is scaled back significantly.

2013--TT is a senior. Here it is, the BIG YEAR....except, while the numbers are pretty darn good, it doesn't feel like a jump. He goes 230/371 2851 yds, 21 TD, 12 INT. Statistically, his worst year, and he all but stopped running the ball (24 yards total).

2014--Derrius Vick moves to top of QB ladder after a couple years in the system. Doesn't hold on to the top spot and turns in a mediocre at best year. 84/160 1156 yds, 8 TD, 4 INT. Walk-on JD Sprague goes 98/202, 1236 yds, 3 TD, 5 INT

2015--Two QBs return, Vick and Sprague. Vick goes 158/247 1809 yds, 10 TD, 6 INT, Sprague goes 63/115 917 yds, 7 TD, 3 INT.

2016--Windham, who feels like he's been in our system for decades, finally gets the nod as a senior. Despite having the ability to develop in the system, is demoted to backup for Maxwell.

So, when you look back at our starters, from Austen to Brad to Theo to Boo to Tyler to Vick and Sprague, can you really identify somebody who got better the longer they were in our system?

Austen's 2nd year was better than his first.

Brad never really put up any good numbers.

Theo really only had one year as a starter.

Boo was better year one than he was year three.

TT was better his first year as a starter than he was either of the other two years.

Vick never showed any growth and staff never seemed to be impressed.

Sprague was a stop-gap, tough as he was.

Windham, in his final year, couldn't maintain the starter role.

Then there are the 'highly recruited' names like Brandon Jones, Greg Windham, Joey Duckworth who never develop. Is that bad recruiting or is it poor development at the QB position? Really, Duckworth can't start over Maxwell, whose accuracy is questionable at best?

Would I want my son to grow into a QB at OHIO? Would Coach Burrow?



I've been asking this question for 2 years.



none of these QB's came in highly touted, Boo Jackson was a four star by a mediocre site. The two that we have coming in next year look the part and were rated 55 and 60 in the country respectively. TT regressed because he was spoiled, DV was consistently average and Boo Jackson was inconsistent.


All true. So begs the question, why can't this staff recruit a good QB when everyone else in the league seems to?
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 7:48:33 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
All true. So begs the question, why can't this staff recruit a good QB when everyone else in the league seems to?


According some of the recruiting experts on this site he has, and they are both enrolling next fall.

BTW, I'm NOT one of those recruiting experts. I mainly lurk on the recruiting forum.


Last Edited: 11/16/2016 7:48:58 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,894

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 8:12:38 PM 
Seriously, OCF...that is about as disappointing a chronology of a position one could read. It takes them 12 years to realize you win with a VERY GOOD QB? Just like a lot of other things, this staff does not go after STARS. It is not in their DNA or we would have seen better in 12 years. They go after QBs that manage games not ones that can win a game.
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Kevin Finnegan
General User

Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 1,083

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 8:31:41 PM 
allen wrote:
SBH wrote:
finnOhio wrote:
I love OHIO, have traveled to many games, have indoctrinated my kids into the club. But, as I watch another year of middling QB play at OHIO, I wonder if my son was a star QB, would I want him here?

In the 12 seasons on Frank Solich, check out the QB development, or lack thereof.

2005--Austen Everson 105/220 1151 yds, 4 TD, 11 INT...freshman Brandon Jones gets little bit of action.

2006--Austen Everson again, similar numbers 137/253 1356 yds, 7 TD, 8 INT, Brad Bower, transfer from Illinois gets some action 41/72 426 yds, 1 TD, 7 INT...Jones redshirts, team makes bowl game, plays more games, Everson a definite leader.

2007--Brad Bowers becomes starter, not spectacular numbers: 127/232 1767 yds, 11 TD, 10 INT...Theo Scott (another transfer, JUCO) gets some action, goes 63/109 for 743 yds, 5 TD, 3 INT...still no development of either recruited QB Brandon Jones or Josh Febus.

2008--Boo Jackson (transfer) in 1st year has best OHIO QB year thus far under Frank, goes 185/306 2355 yds, 19 TD, 12 INT, Theo, in limited duty due to injury I believe, goes 29/44 247 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT...no Jones or Febus

2009--Roles reverse from previous year, Theo gets more action 199/344 2369 yds, 20 TD, 11 INT. Jackson, injured, goes 17/30 194 1 TD, 0 INT...freshman Tyler Tettleton does some mop up duty.

2010--Boo Jackson returns following injury, goes 149/245, 1897 yds, 18 TD, 17 INT, no other QBs really see action other than some minor Phil Bates action... Tettleton redshirts

2011--Tettleton, as a sophomore, becomes the first HS QB recruited by Frank to start a game. He puts together one of the best seasons ever by an OHIO Qb in his first year, going 265/413 3306 yds, 28 TD, 10 INT, also rushes for 658 yards. He's set to be a legend at OHIO.

2012--Another good year by Tettleton, maybe not as flashy as the year before, but still great. 228/367 2844 yds, 18 TD, only 4 INT, though his rushing prowess is scaled back significantly.

2013--TT is a senior. Here it is, the BIG YEAR....except, while the numbers are pretty darn good, it doesn't feel like a jump. He goes 230/371 2851 yds, 21 TD, 12 INT. Statistically, his worst year, and he all but stopped running the ball (24 yards total).

2014--Derrius Vick moves to top of QB ladder after a couple years in the system. Doesn't hold on to the top spot and turns in a mediocre at best year. 84/160 1156 yds, 8 TD, 4 INT. Walk-on JD Sprague goes 98/202, 1236 yds, 3 TD, 5 INT

2015--Two QBs return, Vick and Sprague. Vick goes 158/247 1809 yds, 10 TD, 6 INT, Sprague goes 63/115 917 yds, 7 TD, 3 INT.

2016--Windham, who feels like he's been in our system for decades, finally gets the nod as a senior. Despite having the ability to develop in the system, is demoted to backup for Maxwell.

So, when you look back at our starters, from Austen to Brad to Theo to Boo to Tyler to Vick and Sprague, can you really identify somebody who got better the longer they were in our system?

Austen's 2nd year was better than his first.

Brad never really put up any good numbers.

Theo really only had one year as a starter.

Boo was better year one than he was year three.

TT was better his first year as a starter than he was either of the other two years.

Vick never showed any growth and staff never seemed to be impressed.

Sprague was a stop-gap, tough as he was.

Windham, in his final year, couldn't maintain the starter role.

Then there are the 'highly recruited' names like Brandon Jones, Greg Windham, Joey Duckworth who never develop. Is that bad recruiting or is it poor development at the QB position? Really, Duckworth can't start over Maxwell, whose accuracy is questionable at best?

Would I want my son to grow into a QB at OHIO? Would Coach Burrow?



I've been asking this question for 2 years.



none of these QB's came in highly touted, Boo Jackson was a four star by a mediocre site. The two that we have coming in next year look the part and were rated 55 and 60 in the country respectively. TT regressed because he was spoiled, DV was consistently average and Boo Jackson was inconsistent.


As a school principal, this reminds me of the excuse by a teacher that the failure of students is a result of the child and the parent, but no fault of the teacher. To say each of these things says that there was no hope for any of these players. Again, there has not been one QB in 12 years that has gotten better once they stepped foot on campus.
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L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,064

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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 8:51:17 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
As a school principal, this reminds me of the excuse by a teacher that the failure of students is a result of the child and the parent, but no fault of the teacher. To say each of these things says that there was no hope for any of these players. Again, there has not been one QB in 12 years that has gotten better once they stepped foot on campus.

I would have to disagree with you. Windham has significantly improved the last two years from where he was, and Maxwell is much better now than he was in high school. As for the data before that, Everson certainly improved from 2005 to 2006. The data on some of the others is inconclusive. For example, the offensive line and receivers were outstanding in 2011 and early 2012, so TT was surrounded by an all-star cast that made him look better. By contrast the offensive line and receivers in late 2012 and 2013 were not nearly as good. So, did he improve, but that improvement was masked by the other team issues? Perhaps, but it's inconclusive.

My net conclusion, though, is that while I agree that QB progress under Gdowski was questionable, so far, under Isphording, there are signs that the situation is much better. First, recruiting seems clearly better - the only quarterbacks he is responsible on the recruiting front are Maxwell and the two three star recruits for next fall, Keszei and Maloney, all three of which seem to have upside. Second, the QBs seem to be making progress. As I mentioned above, Windham is dramatically improved from a couple years ago, and Maxwell, for a guy that was on a horrible team in High School, is playing pretty well for a Redshirt Freshman.

Last Edited: 11/16/2016 8:53:19 PM by L.C.

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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 9:38:39 PM 
As I raised in another thread our offensive system leaves our QB's susceptible to getting the hell beat out of them, i.e. Witness the thrashing Maxwell took last night.

The roster of QB's listed in this thread were themselves subject to various injuries through-out their careers, the majority if not all of them injured early on. Could those injuries have played a major role in hindering their development?

QB's are always susceptible to injuries. IMHO the system we run where the QB is required to run as much as they do, the rash of injuries to our QB's is not the least bit surprising and thus a detriment to their development.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 9:41:29 PM 
I made the comment in the chat room during early in the year how every QB under Solich gets beat up with more and more playing time. I wondered if this was why they were reluctant to give the reigns to Maxwell so early.

I don't think that it is coaching. It seems to me that OUr recruiting strategy, given that we can't get 4 and 5 star guys, is to look for smart, teachable kids that are undersized but tough (like he was). I think the QBs in the spread option just end up with a lot of nagging injuries after playing 20 game. I know everyone is focused on their own injuries but I think that it isn't just QBs. I think this strategy leave us with far more injuries most years than the average team.
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 10:37:30 PM 
L.C. wrote:
finnOhio wrote:
As a school principal, this reminds me of the excuse by a teacher that the failure of students is a result of the child and the parent, but no fault of the teacher. To say each of these things says that there was no hope for any of these players. Again, there has not been one QB in 12 years that has gotten better once they stepped foot on campus.

I would have to disagree with you. Windham has significantly improved the last two years from where he was, and Maxwell is much better now than he was in high school. As for the data before that, Everson certainly improved from 2005 to 2006. The data on some of the others is inconclusive. For example, the offensive line and receivers were outstanding in 2011 and early 2012, so TT was surrounded by an all-star cast that made him look better. By contrast the offensive line and receivers in late 2012 and 2013 were not nearly as good. So, did he improve, but that improvement was masked by the other team issues? Perhaps, but it's inconclusive.

My net conclusion, though, is that while I agree that QB progress under Gdowski was questionable, so far, under Isphording, there are signs that the situation is much better. First, recruiting seems clearly better - the only quarterbacks he is responsible on the recruiting front are Maxwell and the two three star recruits for next fall, Keszei and Maloney, all three of which seem to have upside. Second, the QBs seem to be making progress. As I mentioned above, Windham is dramatically improved from a couple years ago, and Maxwell, for a guy that was on a horrible team in High School, is playing pretty well for a Redshirt Freshman.



LC has a point, Maxwell averaged one hundreds yards per game passing in high school, maybe they can coach up a QB. Maxwell still is not that accurate, but I was expecting to see a very poor imitation of Kareem Wilson or Austin Everson.

Last Edited: 11/18/2016 12:18:43 AM by allen

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/16/2016 11:29:08 PM 
Sorry, L.C., but you continue to see forecasts and could-be's as reality.

On the other hand, we keep playing other MAC teams which seem to have markedly better passing attacks than about all we've seen, with the exception of Good Years Tettleton.

I'm sure that this list could be very, very long, but start with recently: Licata at Buffalo, BG's Matt Johnson, CMU's rush.

Well, so many look so good vs our defensing.


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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/17/2016 12:30:28 PM 
As far as injuries, most of them have not been related to the quarterbacks running the ball. Many have been injured based on plays where the defender was penalized for unnecessary roughness. That was true of T3, Vick, and Sprague for sure, and may have been true of others. That isn't too surprising - when you get hit while throwing the ball, or while out of bounds, you are unprotected, and can get hurt easily, whereas when you are running, you can see the impact coming and prepare for it. That said, I do wish the QBs would slide more often, or run out of bounds, rather than trying to get every last yard.

Monroe Slavin wrote:
Sorry, L.C., but you continue to see forecasts and could-be's as reality....

Um, what? You think Windham hasn't improved from two years ago, and that his play this year has been all hypothetical? You think Maxwell hasn't improved from High School, where he only threw for 100 yards a game, and that I'm just imagining it?

Last Edited: 11/17/2016 12:31:25 PM by L.C.

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bobcat695
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/17/2016 2:03:15 PM 
Windham improved greatly. He's worked all the way up to be the definitive #2 QB as a Senior.

Last Edited: 11/17/2016 2:03:57 PM by bobcat695

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/17/2016 2:51:53 PM 
bobcat695 wrote:
Windham improved greatly. He's worked all the way up to be the definitive #2 QB as a Senior.

If you want to attack Isphording, let's have a fact based discussion. Isphording has been the QB coach since 2014. During that time he's coached Vick, Sprague, Windham, Duckworth, and Maxwell. The only one of these he recruited was Maxwell, but he has two 3-star recruits who have given verbals for Fall. Have any of these progressed under his coaching? Here is the data on every QB he has coached at Ohio (I exclude years with <20 passes):

Vick
2013 (under Gdowski) 47% completions, 1 TD, 1 Int, 101 efficiency
2014 59% completions, 8 TDs, 4 Int, 131 efficiency
2015 64% completions, 10 TDs, 6 Int, 134 efficiency

Sprague
2014 49% completions, 3 Tds, 5 Int, 100 efficiency
2015 55% completions, 7 tds, 3 Int, 137 efficiency

Windham
2015 48% completions, 1 TD, 4 Int, 98 efficiency
2016 56% completions, 9 TD, 3 Int, 119 efficiency

Duckworth - no stats

Maxwell
2016 56% completions, 8 TD, 4 Int, 136 efficiency

So, did any of the QBs show progress? Oh wait... they all did. Every single QB showed performance improvement each and every year. Note that we can debate if the above progress was the result of coaching, or because of the IPF which arrived at about the same time, but it seems impossible to argue that there hasn't been any progress.

Last Edited: 11/17/2016 3:08:44 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/17/2016 2:52:47 PM 
If you told me back in 2005 that Ohio would be running anything other than the option with Frank Solich, I'd have been stunned.

That's why I've never expected and never been let down by our quarterbacks. I always assumed they'd be converted safeties for as long as Frank was in Athens.

Low bar. Once in a while we run into a Tyler Tettleton and I'm thrilled.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/17/2016 3:07:22 PM 
BobcatSports wrote:

QB's are always susceptible to injuries. IMHO the system we run where the QB is required to run as much as they do, the rash of injuries to our QB's is not the least bit surprising and thus a detriment to their development.



I agree with this statement. Sometimes I feel like our offensive coaches are trying to force their system on a player rather than working within the player's strenghts. Windham, because he's a little more stout as a player, can probably handle the running more than Maxwell. But IMO, Maxwell is a more explosive player. Why get him beat up by running him so much when his larger value is as a passer?
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/17/2016 3:39:09 PM 
L.C. wrote:
As far as injuries, most of them have not been related to the quarterbacks running the ball. Many have been injured based on plays where the defender was penalized for unnecessary roughness. That was true of T3, Vick, and Sprague for sure, and may have been true of others. That isn't too surprising - when you get hit while throwing the ball, or while out of bounds, you are unprotected, and can get hurt easily, whereas when you are running, you can see the impact coming and prepare for it. That said, I do wish the QBs would slide more often, or run out of bounds, rather than trying to get every last yard.

Monroe Slavin wrote:
Sorry, L.C., but you continue to see forecasts and could-be's as reality....

Um, what? You think Windham hasn't improved from two years ago, and that his play this year has been all hypothetical? You think Maxwell hasn't improved from High School, where he only threw for 100 yards a game, and that I'm just imagining it?


The weakness of the Maxwell argument is that, since his recruiting, you have mentioned that he had the talent, just didn't have the supporting cast. Thus, by that, it isn't growth that has improved him, it's the surroundings he has. If not, why were we offering a scholarship to a QB who could only throw for 100 yards in high school?

There's the common saying in college football that a team improves the most from game one to game two. Well, shouldn't we see that with our QBs as well? Does the coaching staff make any adjustments?

Greg Windham, game one ever as a starter: 28-46 393 yds, 4 TD, 0 INT. In seven games after that, he went 96/174 for 973 yds, 5 TD, 3 INT. He only once in those seven games threw over 200 yards, and showed little to no improvement after that first game. I put that on the coaches.

In Maxwell's first two outings, he did pretty well, throwing for 60% (28/40 355 yds). In the four games after that, he is just a 50% passer (47/94). No jump there, either in statistics or in the ever-present 'eye-test'. There is little proof that this coaching staff can get growth or improvement out of the QB position.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/17/2016 5:18:03 PM 
Finn, when you are looking at small samples, like a few games, it makes a big difference who you are playing. Texas state did not have as good a defense as, say, Miami. Second, once Windham and Maxwell were on film, other teams could game plan for their strengths and weaknesses. Finally, the saying about teams improving between the first and second game is related to teamwork more than to individual improvements. That is why I focused on larger data sets, entire years.

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/17/2016 11:09:57 PM 
Pretty much agree with Finn. Between no particular improvement game to game and not having much special at QB save for T3 a few games and TT for a couple of years, our qb play has been very non-remarkable.

So many games over the last 4-almost-5 years, we've seen qb's dice our defense for prolonged parts of games. But we don't see our qb's doing much of that.


So, while there may have been improvement from what they were in high school, it's difficult to make an argument that we've had much in the way of good to better quarterbacking.


And stating that a qb is better than he was in high school but is still rather average--that ain't much of a way to prove that our qb play has been good.





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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/18/2016 12:14:52 AM 
I would want my son to play for Ohio because I love the school and my experience, but I would not pressure him. We need to get a consultant to come in and help Albin with the play-calling. Go Cats

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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bobcat695
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/18/2016 12:55:44 AM 
L.C. wrote:
bobcat695 wrote:
Windham improved greatly. He's worked all the way up to be the definitive #2 QB as a Senior.

If you want to attack Isphording, let's have a fact based discussion. Isphording has been the QB coach since 2014. During that time he's coached Vick, Sprague, Windham, Duckworth, and Maxwell. The only one of these he recruited was Maxwell, but he has two 3-star recruits who have given verbals for Fall. Have any of these progressed under his coaching? Here is the data on every QB he has coached at Ohio (I exclude years with <20 passes):

Vick
2013 (under Gdowski) 47% completions, 1 TD, 1 Int, 101 efficiency
2014 59% completions, 8 TDs, 4 Int, 131 efficiency
2015 64% completions, 10 TDs, 6 Int, 134 efficiency

Sprague
2014 49% completions, 3 Tds, 5 Int, 100 efficiency
2015 55% completions, 7 tds, 3 Int, 137 efficiency

Windham
2015 48% completions, 1 TD, 4 Int, 98 efficiency
2016 56% completions, 9 TD, 3 Int, 119 efficiency

Duckworth - no stats

Maxwell
2016 56% completions, 8 TD, 4 Int, 136 efficiency

So, did any of the QBs show progress? Oh wait... they all did. Every single QB showed performance improvement each and every year. Note that we can debate if the above progress was the result of coaching, or because of the IPF which arrived at about the same time, but it seems impossible to argue that there hasn't been any progress.


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bobcat695
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/18/2016 1:16:28 AM 
L.C. wrote:
bobcat695 wrote:
Windham improved greatly. He's worked all the way up to be the definitive #2 QB as a Senior.

If you want to attack Isphording, let's have a fact based discussion. Isphording has been the QB coach since 2014. During that time he's coached Vick, Sprague, Windham, Duckworth, and Maxwell. The only one of these he recruited was Maxwell, but he has two 3-star recruits who have given verbals for Fall. Have any of these progressed under his coaching? Here is the data on every QB he has coached at Ohio (I exclude years with <20 passes):

Vick
2013 (under Gdowski) 47% completions, 1 TD, 1 Int, 101 efficiency
2014 59% completions, 8 TDs, 4 Int, 131 efficiency
2015 64% completions, 10 TDs, 6 Int, 134 efficiency

Sprague
2014 49% completions, 3 Tds, 5 Int, 100 efficiency
2015 55% completions, 7 tds, 3 Int, 137 efficiency

Windham
2015 48% completions, 1 TD, 4 Int, 98 efficiency
2016 56% completions, 9 TD, 3 Int, 119 efficiency

Duckworth - no stats

Maxwell
2016 56% completions, 8 TD, 4 Int, 136 efficiency

So, did any of the QBs show progress? Oh wait... they all did. Every single QB showed performance improvement each and every year. Note that we can debate if the above progress was the result of coaching, or because of the IPF which arrived at about the same time, but it seems impossible to argue that there hasn't been any progress.


I know this is going to shock you LC, but my problem is with Solich, the CEO of the program. He's personally been responsible for accomplishing virtually nothing besides elevating the program to MAC mediocrity. The QBs are not great, the recruiting is not good, and the performance is under par. If you cannot win the lowly MAC in 11 seasons, then you are not a great football coach. Let's face it, it's a horrible conference, especially the East. Nebraska probably made the correct decision to wish him well in his future endeavors.

If my son was a QB prospect, I would suggest he run somewhere else. And I'm a guy that blindly supports the team with perfect attendance and cash for 25+ years. Just this evening, I was approached by a parent of a very good prospect that asked if I could help introduce him to the OU football program. I like the kid too much to make that call. You can throw Izzy under the bus all you want, but I have not seen the progress at all. You quote stats from afar. I watch the games live. Ohio football is better than it was when I was a student. It's virtually impossible to not be better than Lichty. I'm not excited at all about the game next week, nor do I care about how many points WMU beats us by the week after that. Win a truly meaningful game and we'll talk. Until then, I live in a real world where I've never made a 6 hour drive home from Detrot happy.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Would you want your son QB to play here?
   Posted: 11/18/2016 10:36:27 AM 
bobcat695 wrote:


If my son was a QB prospect, I would suggest he run somewhere else. And I'm a guy that blindly supports the team with perfect attendance and cash for 25+ years. Just this evening, I was approached by a parent of a very good prospect that asked if I could help introduce him to the OU football program. I like the kid too much to make that call. You can throw Izzy under the bus all you want, but I have not seen the progress at all. You quote stats from afar. I watch the games live. Ohio football is better than it was when I was a student. It's virtually impossible to not be better than Lichty. I'm not excited at all about the game next week, nor do I care about how many points WMU beats us by the week after that. Win a truly meaningful game and we'll talk. Until then, I live in a real world where I've never made a 6 hour drive home from Detrot happy.



A fan and alum of over a quarter century wouldn't introduce him to the OU Football Program? This is fascinating.
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