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Topic:  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?

Topic:  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/18/2016 10:42:02 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
......
No one's responded to my '........


Monroe. Likely no one is responding because we know you despise Solich and want him and all the coaches fired. We know you think these guys haven't won anything, can't recruit, and are terrible game managers. Why engage at this point. You are a fundamentalist and one should never argue/negotiate with a fundamentalist because all they want is everything.

As for the class of the MAC, WMU and Toledo look very good to me. Unfortunately I don't think we can score enough to beat either team

I need to see Akron repeat that performance before I believe. But wow. Who puts that much up on Marshall at Marshall ? That's an impressive result.


Last Edited: 9/18/2016 10:42:25 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/18/2016 12:57:25 PM 
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Please explain how a post which opines (accurately, I believe) about the quality of the teams in MAC is more accurate than points which I make.

No one's responded to my 'normalized' analysis year by year of our 2013, 2014, 2015 in which I disregard the cupcake games (the 'suckage' type teams) and state our record, noting the large losses to peer teams. Achieved by a staff in its 9th, 10th and 11th years. Maybe you'd care to do so--so that I can better understand why we have not mediocre?

Isn't it easy to blanket slam but more honest and refined to engage in specific analysis?




Your supposed 'normalized' analysis is anything but normal. You can't cherry pick what data to ignore. By doing so you create bias in the data set. Why throw out the easier games? If you do that then you need to balance it and throw out the harder games. That then leaves you with the average teams. You can't arbitrarily throw out data and suggest the resulting analysis and conclusions are valid in any way, shape or form. So I suspect that's why no one has responded to your biased and totally invalid analysis.





To the above and Ohio69.

First, my analysis, of course, is not perfect. Because no one's is.

But the thought that it's not fair to throw out the easy games seems to imply that all games are created equal. Which leads to an analysis with about no nuance.

I get slammed here for lack of facts/specifics and for the nature of my analysis.

Got news for you, pals. My analysis is reasonable. And reasonably accurate.

If not, then give me your analysis of 2013, 2014 and 2015.

Those are the most recent years of this staff and their 9th, 10th and 11th years.

Should we only judge the years and games in which they've done better,.


For the umpteenth time, the fact that you don't like me does not make what I write untrue.



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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/18/2016 1:49:46 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Please explain how a post which opines (accurately, I believe) about the quality of the teams in MAC is more accurate than points which I make.

No one's responded to my 'normalized' analysis year by year of our 2013, 2014, 2015 in which I disregard the cupcake games (the 'suckage' type teams) and state our record, noting the large losses to peer teams. Achieved by a staff in its 9th, 10th and 11th years. Maybe you'd care to do so--so that I can better understand why we have not mediocre?

Isn't it easy to blanket slam but more honest and refined to engage in specific analysis?




Your supposed 'normalized' analysis is anything but normal. You can't cherry pick what data to ignore. By doing so you create bias in the data set. Why throw out the easier games? If you do that then you need to balance it and throw out the harder games. That then leaves you with the average teams. You can't arbitrarily throw out data and suggest the resulting analysis and conclusions are valid in any way, shape or form. So I suspect that's why no one has responded to your biased and totally invalid analysis.





To the above and Ohio69.

First, my analysis, of course, is not perfect. Because no one's is.

But the thought that it's not fair to throw out the easy games seems to imply that all games are created equal. Which leads to an analysis with about no nuance.

I get slammed here for lack of facts/specifics and for the nature of my analysis.

Got news for you, pals. My analysis is reasonable. And reasonably accurate.

If not, then give me your analysis of 2013, 2014 and 2015.

Those are the most recent years of this staff and their 9th, 10th and 11th years.

Should we only judge the years and games in which they've done better,.


For the umpteenth time, the fact that you don't like me does not make what I write untrue.





Sorry but your analysis is not reasonable and thus why it's not accurate. You can NOT pick and choose what data you see as relevant. The very reason your analysis is totally flawed is because you refuse to do an analysis on all the data. Trying to toss out 25% of the games from analysis each year because you subjectively determine those games to be 'cupcakes' would from a statistical standpoint invalidate any conclusions reached. You've created a bias in the data set.


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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/18/2016 5:57:35 PM 
Can you do me a favor and repeat that?

It's puerile and irrelevant. It totally fails to meet a reasonable analysis on the basis that everything must be your way, must be to your standard, must be something that you agree with or else it's wrong.

Apart from that, it's a reasonable analysis that judges us on peer type opponents, not letting us rely on beating Gardner-Webb or Incarnate Word 4-5 times a year so that we appear as an okay team.

Please repeat it. Please don't discuss our game scores or per-formances or engage in any somewhat civil analysis, with some allowance for vigor of discourse.


Seriously, can you please repeat your thought. Maybe if you do it will become relevant, will satisfy all that a record of 7-16 with 9 losses by 18 or more points vs. peer level teams (removing cupcakes and overwhelming opponents) is really good or even acceptable in a staff's 9th, 10th and 11th years?

Seriously, can you repeat an imperfect, missing the point argument more?

Can you

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/18/2016 6:38:46 PM 
puerile?
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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/18/2016 7:27:26 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Can you do me a favor and repeat that?

It's puerile and irrelevant. It totally fails to meet a reasonable analysis on the basis that everything must be your way, must be to your standard, must be something that you agree with or else it's wrong.

Apart from that, it's a reasonable analysis that judges us on peer type opponents, not letting us rely on beating Gardner-Webb or Incarnate Word 4-5 times a year so that we appear as an okay team.

Please repeat it. Please don't discuss our game scores or per-formances or engage in any somewhat civil analysis, with some allowance for vigor of discourse.


Seriously, can you please repeat your thought. Maybe if you do it will become relevant, will satisfy all that a record of 7-16 with 9 losses by 18 or more points vs. peer level teams (removing cupcakes and overwhelming opponents) is really good or even acceptable in a staff's 9th, 10th and 11th years?

Seriously, can you repeat an imperfect, missing the point argument more?

Can you


It's not clear who you're ranting against. But if it's me then I'll REPEAT that obviously you don't know the first thing about Statistical Analysis. So you want to exclude Gardner Webb but we keep a Tennessee in the analysis. Yeah, that makes sense. You're clearly clueless in this area. Go back to Athens and take an introductory course in Stats. Then report back and admit your 'analysis' was faulty, biased and worthless.

I won't respond further on this point since you just don't understand any basic concepts of an analytical and statistical nature.

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/18/2016 9:11:19 PM 
Monroe - i have no idea if I like you or not as we've never met. We may get along just fine. But on here your nonstop negative posts about the program are tiring. Like on this thread, I have no clue who you think the class of the MAC is.

Last Edited: 9/18/2016 9:14:44 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/18/2016 9:48:20 PM 
CMU is ranked 37 in the AP if you count others receiving votes. Toledo and WMU are tied for 29. FCS NDSU is counted ahead of them.

In the coaches poll WMU is 38 while Toledo and CMU are tied for 41.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/19/2016 9:34:55 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Please explain how a post which opines (accurately, I believe) about the quality of the teams in MAC is more accurate than points which I make.

No one's responded to my 'normalized' analysis year by year of our 2013, 2014, 2015 in which I disregard the cupcake games (the 'suckage' type teams) and state our record, noting the large losses to peer teams. Achieved by a staff in its 9th, 10th and 11th years. Maybe you'd care to do so--so that I can better understand why we have not mediocre?

Isn't it easy to blanket slam but more honest and refined to engage in specific analysis?




Your supposed 'normalized' analysis is anything but normal. You can't cherry pick what data to ignore. By doing so you create bias in the data set. Why throw out the easier games? If you do that then you need to balance it and throw out the harder games. That then leaves you with the average teams. You can't arbitrarily throw out data and suggest the resulting analysis and conclusions are valid in any way, shape or form. So I suspect that's why no one has responded to your biased and totally invalid analysis.





To the above and Ohio69.

First, my analysis, of course, is not perfect. Because no one's is.

But the thought that it's not fair to throw out the easy games seems to imply that all games are created equal. Which leads to an analysis with about no nuance.

I get slammed here for lack of facts/specifics and for the nature of my analysis.

Got news for you, pals. My analysis is reasonable. And reasonably accurate.

If not, then give me your analysis of 2013, 2014 and 2015.

Those are the most recent years of this staff and their 9th, 10th and 11th years.

Should we only judge the years and games in which they've done better,.


For the umpteenth time, the fact that you don't like me does not make what I write untrue.



Once again, it's not your opinion. It's your personality.
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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/19/2016 9:55:20 AM 

Monroe Slavin wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Please explain how a post which opines (accurately, I believe) about the quality of the teams in MAC is more accurate than points which I make.

No one's responded to my 'normalized' analysis year by year of our 2013, 2014, 2015 in which I disregard the cupcake games (the 'suckage' type teams) and state our record, noting the large losses to peer teams. Achieved by a staff in its 9th, 10th and 11th years. Maybe you'd care to do so--so that I can better understand why we have not mediocre?

Isn't it easy to blanket slam but more honest and refined to engage in specific analysis?




Your supposed 'normalized' analysis is anything but normal. You can't cherry pick what data to ignore. By doing so you create bias in the data set. Why throw out the easier games? If you do that then you need to balance it and throw out the harder games. That then leaves you with the average teams. You can't arbitrarily throw out data and suggest the resulting analysis and conclusions are valid in any way, shape or form. So I suspect that's why no one has responded to your biased and totally invalid analysis.





To the above and Ohio69.

First, my analysis, of course, is not perfect. Because no one's is.

But the thought that it's not fair to throw out the easy games seems to imply that all games are created equal. Which leads to an analysis with about no nuance.

I get slammed here for lack of facts/specifics and for the nature of my analysis.

Got news for you, pals. My analysis is reasonable. And reasonably accurate.

If not, then give me your analysis of 2013, 2014 and 2015.

Those are the most recent years of this staff and their 9th, 10th and 11th years.

Should we only judge the years and games in which they've done better,.


For the umpteenth time, the fact that you don't like me does not make what I write untrue.



 

Using your own reasoning from above, you are violating your own rules.

"Should we only judge the years and games in which they've done better,."

No, and similarly, you can't judge by just the years and games they've done worse. 

 

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CA Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/19/2016 5:35:59 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Please explain how a post which opines (accurately, I believe) about the quality of the teams in MAC is more accurate than points which I make.

No one's responded to my 'normalized' analysis year by year of our 2013, 2014, 2015 in which I disregard the cupcake games (the 'suckage' type teams) and state our record, noting the large losses to peer teams. Achieved by a staff in its 9th, 10th and 11th years. Maybe you'd care to do so--so that I can better understand why we have not mediocre?

Isn't it easy to blanket slam but more honest and refined to engage in specific analysis?




Blanket slamming, huh? I think you might be the only person on this board that has developed a moniker for those you assume are blindly loyal to Solich. Does that qualify as blanket slamming? It at least qualifies as generalizing and it's an ignorant approach. Have you been to an OU game this year? How many have you been to in the last few years? I live in CA and I have been to every game this year. Your turn.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/25/2016 5:28:51 PM 
Victory wrote:
This looks like the worst NIU team in a while but one has to figure that they are still top among the better teams after the top three


1-3. Toledo, Western Michigan, Central Michigan
3-7 Ohio, Bowling Green, Akron, Northern Illinois, Ball St.
8-13 Looks like some pretty bad suckage. Buffalo is probably looking the most disappointing. EMU actually collected a 1A win today.


Reassessing based mostly on this year and less on expectations.
1. Western Michigan
2. Toledo
3. Central Michigan
4. Akron
5. Ball St.
6. Ohio
7. Eastern Michigan
8. Buffalo
The other teams have basically empty resumes. Miami has probably played the best of them.

Last Edited: 9/25/2016 5:29:21 PM by Victory
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/25/2016 6:13:03 PM 
Victory wrote:
Victory wrote:
This looks like the worst NIU team in a while but one has to figure that they are still top among the better teams after the top three
1-3. Toledo, Western Michigan, Central Michigan
3-7 Ohio, Bowling Green, Akron, Northern Illinois, Ball St.
8-13 Looks like some pretty bad suckage.
Buffalo is probably looking the most disappointing. EMU actually collected a 1A win today.


Reassessing based mostly on this year and less on expectations....

Adding expected win projections from TeamRankings:
1. Western Michigan 10.7
2. Toledo 10.2
3. Central Michigan 8.6
4. Akron 6.1
5. Ball St. 6.8
6. Ohio 6.5
7. Eastern Michigan 5.8
8. Buffalo 3.6
Kent 3.9
Miami 3.0
Bowling Green 2.9
NIU 3.4

Looking this, I'd go back to the original format, making a few changes:
1-3. Toledo, Western Michigan, Central Michigan
4-7 Ohio, Akron, Ball St, EMU
8-12 Kent, Buffalo, NIU, Miami, BG

It seems odd to see NIU and BG both in the bottom tier, and EMU not in it.

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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/25/2016 9:28:48 PM 
Heading into conference play, I've got it as:

The favorites:
1. WMU
2. Toledo
-->Toledo could convince me they are better than WMU if they beat BYU in Provo Friday. BYU's 3 losses are by a total of 7 points.

The contenders:
3. CMU
-->The loss to Virginia is a head-scratcher. Virginia isn't Kansas-bad, but they aren't real good either.
4. Ohio
5. Akron
-->Kron's win over Marshall doesn't trump the loss to App State IMO. Marshall might not be real good this year.

The enigmas:
6. Ball State
7. EMU
8. NIU

The basement:
9. Buffalo
10. Fiami
11. Kent
12. BG

Last Edited: 9/25/2016 9:29:22 PM by C Money
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/25/2016 9:53:37 PM 
C Money wrote:
Heading into conference play, I've got it as:

The contenders:
3. CMU
-->The loss to Virginia is a head-scratcher. Virginia isn't Kansas-bad, but they aren't real good either.
4. Ohio
5. Akron
-->Kron's win over Marshall doesn't trump the loss to App State IMO. Marshall might not be real good this year.


I think there are reasons to rank OUr team ahead of the Zips but I don't see losing by 7 to Appy to be the best of them. We don't have a lot of evidence on everyone on just this season so there is a lot of uncertainly. The fact that Ohio was certainly supposed to be better heading in might still be of some predictive value. The other is that Ohio played Tennessee pretty tough but Akron got smashed by Wisconsin.

Both teams played a top 10 team and lost and a FCS team and won. Ohio beat Kansas while Akron beat Marshall. Ohio lost to Texas State while Akron lost to Appy. Who is probably better Marshall or Kansas? I have to think nearly every odds-maker would favor Marshall. Appy or Texas State? Not a contest. Appy is still expected to be much, much better. OUr loss to Texas State has to kill us in just about any ranking. This is the main reason I had to rank Akron higher. The loss to Appy at home is so much more excusable than the loss to Texas State at home.

Last Edited: 9/26/2016 8:16:34 AM by Victory
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perimeterpost
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/25/2016 11:05:17 PM 
C Money wrote:
Heading into conference play, I've got it as:

The favorites:
1. WMU
2. Toledo
-->Toledo could convince me they are better than WMU if they beat BYU in Provo Friday. BYU's 3 losses are by a total of 7 points.

The contenders:
3. CMU
-->The loss to Virginia is a head-scratcher. Virginia isn't Kansas-bad, but they aren't real good either.
4. Ohio
5. Akron
-->Kron's win over Marshall doesn't trump the loss to App State IMO. Marshall might not be real good this year.

The enigmas:
6. Ball State
7. EMU
8. NIU

The basement:
9. Buffalo
10. Fiami
11. Kent
12. BG


I would swap NIU and Fiami. NIU is not an enigma, it is clearly awful. Fiami on the other hand, loss by 7pts to WKU and UC, two solid teams. They might be better than their 0-4 record indicates.

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El Gato Roberto
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/26/2016 1:11:51 AM 
I think the Miami game will be challenging. I suspect that they are better than their record.

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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/26/2016 7:11:47 AM 
Victory wrote:

Appy or Texas State? Not a contest. Appy is still expected to be much, much better. OUr loss to Texas State has to kill us in just about any ranking. This is the main reason I had to rank Akron higher. The loss to Appy at home is so much more excusable than the loss to Texas State at home.


I get your analysis. But, I think, if we played Kron right now, we would win: (1) the team has played much better since the Texas State debacle, (2) we still don't know how good Texas State might be, and (3) App State beat Kron playing the kind of game we want to play. They ran for 307 yards (without their best RB playing) and had a 7 minute time of possession advantage.


perimeterpost wrote:

I would swap NIU and Fiami. NIU is not an enigma, it is clearly awful. Fiami on the other hand, loss by 7pts to WKU and UC, two solid teams. They might be better than their 0-4 record indicates.


I am giving NIU the benefit of the doubt for now. EMU and NIU share a common opponent in Wyoming. NIU lost to Wyoming in OT, on the road, at 2 in the morning, after a lengthy lightning delay. EMU beat Wyoming by 3 at home. That's pretty comparable, IMO.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/26/2016 8:17:01 AM 
El Gato Roberto wrote:
I think the Miami game will be challenging. I suspect that they are better than their record.

Beating Miami is Job #1. Lose, and this stuff matters very little.

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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/26/2016 9:42:08 AM 
Will be interesting to see how Toledo fares at BYU this week.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 9/26/2016 11:45:09 AM 
L.C. wrote:
. . . It seems odd to see NIU and BG both in the bottom tier, and EMU not in it.


I believe that latter fact related to EMU is a sign of the pending Apocalypse. ;-) Time to break out the eschatology textbook boys and girls!

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 10/2/2016 1:15:43 PM 
Can we try this again?

1. WMU
2. Toledo
3. CMU
4. Akron
5. Ohio
6. Eastern Michigan
7. Ball St.
8. Northern Illinois
9. Buffalo - They beat Army. That counts for something
10-12. Miami, Kent State, and Bowling Green - I'm tempted to put Miami last because it lost an FCS game but I think it has actually played better overall than the other two.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 10/2/2016 2:19:52 PM 
Western Michigan enters the Top 25 this week at #25 in the coaches poll. The other MAC team receiving votes this week is Eastern Michigan with 1 vote. When pigs fly EMU picks up Top 25 votes and there were reports of them taking flight after the BG game yesterday.

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El Gato Roberto
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 10/2/2016 3:16:46 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Western Michigan enters the Top 25 this week at #25 in the coaches poll. The other MAC team receiving votes this week is Eastern Michigan with 1 vote. When pigs fly EMU picks up Top 25 votes and there were reports of them taking flight after the BG game yesterday.


It's nice to see ANY MAC school getting top 25 votes. Especially a future opponent!
My concern is this week; will Ohio fall victim to an egg-laying on homecoming?

Personally I see no "stone-cold-lead-pipe" wins in the schedule this season.


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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: WMU class of the MAC So Far?
   Posted: 10/2/2016 3:45:48 PM 
From Team Rankings, Projected Conference Wins, odds of MACC:
East:
Ohio 5.1, 5.4%
Akron 4.6, 4.2%
Miami 2.6, 1.%
Kent 2.5, .2%
Buffalo 2.1, .1%
BG 1.7, 0%

West
WMU 7.5, 65.1%
Toledo 6.6, 23.4%
CMU 4.7, .4%
NIU 4.5, .7%
Ball Sate 3.0, .2%
EMU 3.0, .1%

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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