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Topic:  RE: Big 12 Expansion

Topic:  RE: Big 12 Expansion
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big 12 Expansion
   Posted: 10/21/2016 7:00:29 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
[QUOTE=rpbobcat] [QUOTE=MedinaCat] [QUOTE=GoCats105] Big 12 is toast.

The Big10 is an academic alliance of top flight universities, the comment that the Big10 takes away from the university's academic mission is laughable. They are a mid to 2nd tier in the Big10 academically. Northwester, Michigan, Purdue, Illinois, OSU, Wisconsin, Maryland all are at or well above the Rutgers reputation in academics and research.


Rutgers has always had an over inflated opinion of its academic prowess.

They are the best Public University in N.J.
Problem is,most of N.J.'s Public Universities are just expanded teachers' colleges.
In fact many if the colleges just recently gained university status.
Of course that also meant N.J. "bending" some rules as to what constituted a university.
So,for years,Rutgers really had no competition.
Now some other Public Universities,are making strides academically and are either cheaper or more conveniently located the RU.

A few years ago N.J. merged several academic institutions into Rutgers,including giving them a medical school.
According to press reports,this done in large part to make the school more "attractive",academically to the B1G.

Problem is,the merger came with a lot more debt that RU has to deal with,while trying to spend a lot more money on athletics.


Last Edited: 10/21/2016 7:01:28 AM by rpbobcat

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big 12 Expansion
   Posted: 10/21/2016 10:32:47 AM 
C Money wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Big 12 is toast.

My opinion, there will be 4 big conferences of 16 teams each. One for each playoff spot. Convenient eh?



Yep. It's easy math.

Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech to PAC12 to make the PAC16
Baylor and WVU to the SEC
TCU and Kansas State to the B1G+6 (you don't even have to change the logo that much!)
Kansas and Notre Dame to the ACC

Iowa State's relegated to the MWC because it's Iowa State.

PRESTO-CHANGO, and the G5 is the new 1-AA.


Iowa State's AD says that without Tex and Okla, the B12 is really the WMC: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/iowa-state...

At the moment, it's hard to see any B12 team going to another "P" conference because they just can't compete there in football. They're 2-6 vs "P" conference teams this year. Just about the whole conference has been pathetic in OOC games this season. Tex got by ND but lost to Cal; Okla lost at home to O$U and at Houston; Okla St squeaked by Pitt and lost to CMU (with an asterisk) both at home; TCU lost at home to Ark; K-State lost at Stanford; ISU lost to Iowa; TxTech lost at Arizona St; Kansas was creamed by two G5 teams, Ohio and Memphis. Only WVU has done well this season -- beating Mizzou and squeaking past BYU -- but that could be due in part to playing all home games vs OOC teams. Baylor didn't play a "P" conference team, just SMU and Rice (and they won both). B12 is in the same position that the Big East was just before it folded; it's the weak sister of the "P" conferences. The AAC commish is pushing for "P" status, and at the moment AAC teams should be thinking twice about trying to move "up" to B12.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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ou79
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big 12 Expansion
   Posted: 10/22/2016 11:13:44 AM 
If one chose to move "up" to the Big 12 from the AAC, it would be because the $$$ that come with Big 12 membership far exceeds that with the AAC. On a side not, here we sit in the MAC East which is basically the toilet bowl of FBS/D-1A football. Sorry, I just needed to throw that in.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big 12 Expansion
   Posted: 10/26/2016 10:06:58 AM 
ou79 wrote:
If one chose to move "up" to the Big 12 from the AAC, it would be because the $$$ that come with Big 12 membership far exceeds that with the AAC. On a side not, here we sit in the MAC East which is basically the toilet bowl of FBS/D-1A football. Sorry, I just needed to throw that in.



But we should switch conferences! Sorry, it hadn't been said in awhile.

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big 12 Expansion
   Posted: 10/26/2016 10:59:51 AM 
Pataskala wrote:
C Money wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Big 12 is toast.

My opinion, there will be 4 big conferences of 16 teams each. One for each playoff spot. Convenient eh?



Yep. It's easy math.

Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech to PAC12 to make the PAC16
Baylor and WVU to the SEC
TCU and Kansas State to the B1G+6 (you don't even have to change the logo that much!)
Kansas and Notre Dame to the ACC

Iowa State's relegated to the MWC because it's Iowa State.

PRESTO-CHANGO, and the G5 is the new 1-AA.


Iowa State's AD says that without Tex and Okla, the B12 is really the WMC: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/iowa-state...

At the moment, it's hard to see any B12 team going to another "P" conference because they just can't compete there in football. They're 2-6 vs "P" conference teams this year. Just about the whole conference has been pathetic in OOC games this season....

...B12 is in the same position that the Big East was just before it folded; it's the weak sister of the "P" conferences. The AAC commish is pushing for "P" status, and at the moment AAC teams should be thinking twice about trying to move "up" to B12.


First, you're only citing this season in football. They've had some past years when they weren't pathetic. Granted, not as many good years as the B1G, SEC, and to a lesser extent, the PAC 12 and ACC.

On the last part of your thought, this is EXACTLY WHY I think it's in the best interest of several of the schools in this discussion to push to create their own league with a "P" status. This would be including all the schools in the Big 12 not named Oklahoma and Texas, along with UC, BYU, Boise, Memphis, UConn, Houston, etc. There are enough schools in the mix that are more than capable of winning games at a "P" level. At the rate things are going, ESPN and Fox are going to be looking for programming slots to fill when/if the Big12 collapses. It just makes sense to me that if the Big 12 doesn't want to play ball on expansion, that the next step is to work on a TV deal, and steal interested teams from their league, among others. If nothing else, publicly taking steps towards that puts the pressure on the Big 12 to (crap) or get off the pot, and could push them into action. Either way, just waiting for the Big 12 isn't a good move.

Here's a piece, to GoCats credit, from Twitter that adds to the conversation and blunders of the situation. Texas and Oklahoma are probably going to end up in the SEC, either in 2024, or sooner by forcing their way out.

http://www.burntorangenation.com/2016/10/25/13403682/espn...

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big 12 Expansion
   Posted: 10/26/2016 11:15:30 AM 
ou79 wrote:
If one chose to move "up" to the Big 12 from the AAC, it would be because the $$$ that come with Big 12 membership far exceeds that with the AAC. On a side not, here we sit in the MAC East which is basically the toilet bowl of FBS/D-1A football. Sorry, I just needed to throw that in.


But would it have really? Take Cincinnati for example. They are running one of the largest annual AD subsidies in the country ($27M). Now factor in that they'd need to spend even more money on facilities, recruiting, and coaching to step up to B12 levels while getting only a partial share of B12 revenue. I think it's clearly within the realm of possibility that had UC gotten in, their athletic subsidies would have gone up, not down. The annual subsidy also doesn't take into account the massive amount of debt that UC had taken on for capital improvements to their athletic infrastructure; all of which failed spectacularly in their primary goal of getting UC into the P5.

UC is one of the most fiscally irresponsible universities in the country, and I have a hunch that they are going to be facing a real come-to-god moment in the near future with their athletic spending. I've also heard that there's significant rumblings in the Ohio legislature about athletic subsidies, and caps similar to what Virginia instituted might be around the bend for Ohio universities.

Last Edited: 10/26/2016 11:19:43 AM by OUPride

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GoCats105
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Location: Seattle, WA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big 12 Expansion
   Posted: 10/26/2016 11:42:19 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
C Money wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Big 12 is toast.

My opinion, there will be 4 big conferences of 16 teams each. One for each playoff spot. Convenient eh?



Yep. It's easy math.

Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech to PAC12 to make the PAC16
Baylor and WVU to the SEC
TCU and Kansas State to the B1G+6 (you don't even have to change the logo that much!)
Kansas and Notre Dame to the ACC

Iowa State's relegated to the MWC because it's Iowa State.

PRESTO-CHANGO, and the G5 is the new 1-AA.


Iowa State's AD says that without Tex and Okla, the B12 is really the WMC: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/iowa-state...

At the moment, it's hard to see any B12 team going to another "P" conference because they just can't compete there in football. They're 2-6 vs "P" conference teams this year. Just about the whole conference has been pathetic in OOC games this season....

...B12 is in the same position that the Big East was just before it folded; it's the weak sister of the "P" conferences. The AAC commish is pushing for "P" status, and at the moment AAC teams should be thinking twice about trying to move "up" to B12.


First, you're only citing this season in football. They've had some past years when they weren't pathetic. Granted, not as many good years as the B1G, SEC, and to a lesser extent, the PAC 12 and ACC.

On the last part of your thought, this is EXACTLY WHY I think it's in the best interest of several of the schools in this discussion to push to create their own league with a "P" status. This would be including all the schools in the Big 12 not named Oklahoma and Texas, along with UC, BYU, Boise, Memphis, UConn, Houston, etc. There are enough schools in the mix that are more than capable of winning games at a "P" level. At the rate things are going, ESPN and Fox are going to be looking for programming slots to fill when/if the Big12 collapses. It just makes sense to me that if the Big 12 doesn't want to play ball on expansion, that the next step is to work on a TV deal, and steal interested teams from their league, among others. If nothing else, publicly taking steps towards that puts the pressure on the Big 12 to (crap) or get off the pot, and could push them into action. Either way, just waiting for the Big 12 isn't a good move.

Here's a piece, to GoCats credit, from Twitter that adds to the conversation and blunders of the situation. Texas and Oklahoma are probably going to end up in the SEC, either in 2024, or sooner by forcing their way out.

http://www.burntorangenation.com/2016/10/25/13403682/espn...



Yes sir. And this is exactly why I think the MAC offices need to take a hard look at where they stand right now and push for some type of expansion. It sounds silly, but the MAC standing pat from the beginning has made them the most stable when compared to the AAC and C-USA. No way they'll be granted "p" status, but at least do something to make yourself more attractive to TV.

In my perfect world, the MAC offers WKU and Marshall. Bringing those two in make the MAC handfuls better than what it is now.

If you wanted to get really crazy, offer Cincinnati and Memphis. Tell them they'll be the banner carriers for the league. That ain't ever gonna happen though.

Last Edited: 10/26/2016 11:43:59 AM by GoCats105

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OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big 12 Expansion
   Posted: 10/26/2016 11:48:53 AM 
OUPride wrote:
I've also heard that there's significant rumblings in the Ohio legislature about athletic subsidies, and caps similar to what Virginia instituted might be around the bend for Ohio universities.



If this were to happen, it would start the process of the beginning of the end for FBS football at every school in Ohio that's not situated on the Olentangy River.

UC might have a fighting chance, only because of the city they're in, and TV contracts both providing more revenue. MAC schools will be S.O.L.
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