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I know not everyone focuses on sports in the way many of us on here do, but I guess I feel like in the State of Ohio, college football is sort of a big deal. I'm curious to understand what you mean by that? People who post here do follow sports, whether it be basketball or football, both, baseball, etc. But think what percentage of the total population of alums that represents. And sure, there are alums who will come for Homecoming or maybe another game. But in the overall scheme it's a statistically small percentage of alums. How many alums who aren't in Athens for a game will stream it whether on a Saturday or a weekday night? Most who are out in the world working, raising families and all that goes with it are lucky to see a score in the newspaper. Also, look at the typical student football attendance ... many gone by the 3rd quarter. I just think that the typical 35 year old housewife (or 40, 45, 50, ....) doesn't have a priority to see a game in Athens. And as far as guys probably a higher percentage do but I imagine it's still small when you consider the overall population of alums. And it's this reason why I think Monroe is barking up the wrong tree ... we're not knocking on the Top 25 typically and likely it will be very rare if we do. We'll never have the following of an OSU, U. Michigan, or schools of that size that are known for football. We are who we are and frank has done a good job in his time here rescuing us from mediocrity. Last Edited: 6/3/2016 3:13:15 PM by mid70sbobcat Back to Top ShoreCat General User Member Since: 3/10/2011 Location: Avon Lake, OH Post Count: 207 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/3/2016 3:22:04 PM  So according to Wikipedia, which we know is always right (sarcasm) Ohio University has 197,000 living alumni, of whom approximately 105,000 stay in the state. My best non-scientific guess is that on any given home game on Saturday, alums make up no more than 10-15% of the crowd. The Athletic department may keep some stats on this. I love when our teams win. But as an alum in my mid-40s, I am much more concerned with the overall image of Ohio University as a whole. I don't want to see academic or athletic scandals in the news. Improve our overall academic rating. Attract high quality students and faculty. And have competitive, scandal-free athletic programs that graduate their student-athletes. Those things concern me more than the number of MAC football championships we win. This is my definition of success. And by that definition, I'm happy with Frank. Last Edited: 6/3/2016 3:23:55 PM by ShoreCat Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,624 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/3/2016 3:42:07 PM  Saying that because we spend money on the program means we should win a championship is silly. Every school spends money. Would you feel better about our success if we wore old uniforms, Peden needed a coat of paint and Solich made 150k? Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/3/2016 4:46:05 PM  mid70sbobcat wrote: To reply to: Fourth, I'd like to ask (hence the reason for quoting mid70's post) what exactly you mean by "Many alums at most universities the size of Ohio don't follow intercollegiate athletics closely."?? I know not everyone focuses on sports in the way many of us on here do, but I guess I feel like in the State of Ohio, college football is sort of a big deal. I'm curious to understand what you mean by that? People who post here do follow sports, whether it be basketball or football, both, baseball, etc. But think what percentage of the total population of alums that represents. And sure, there are alums who will come for Homecoming or maybe another game. But in the overall scheme it's a statistically small percentage of alums. How many alums who aren't in Athens for a game will stream it whether on a Saturday or a weekday night? Most who are out in the world working, raising families and all that goes with it are lucky to see a score in the newspaper. Also, look at the typical student football attendance ... many gone by the 3rd quarter. I just think that the typical 35 year old housewife (or 40, 45, 50, ....) doesn't have a priority to see a game in Athens. And as far as guys probably a higher percentage do but I imagine it's still small when you consider the overall population of alums. And it's this reason why I think Monroe is barking up the wrong tree ... we're not knocking on the Top 25 typically and likely it will be very rare if we do. We'll never have the following of an OSU, U. Michigan, or schools of that size that are known for football. We are who we are and frank has done a good job in his time here rescuing us from mediocrity. No argument there. I just wanted to make sure I understood really. Initially, I interpreted it as a "we're a small school". Then I decided to ask. I don't ever really want OU to be the athletics corporation that exists on the banks of the Olentangy. In regards to others thoughts on here, I am not unhappy with Frank. Rather, I think defining the highest level of success in the MAC for a 10+ year tenured coach should include winning a MAC Championship. I'd bet if you asked Solich, he might offer a similar opinion. Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/3/2016 10:06:13 PM  If people don't care about football, that's fine. I repeat: if we want to drop the program, I don't think that I'd much object. BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FOOTBALL PROGRAM AND IT'S GOING TO PLAY IN THE MAC, THEN IT IS INSANE TO NOT ASPIRE TO THE MAC TITLE AS THE PRIMARY PROGRAM GOAL. IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT WE USED TO BE INCREDIBLY HORRIBLE. FOR THE $$$ WE'RE PAYING THIS STAFF AND FOR THE LENGTH OF TIME THAT THEY HAVE BEEN AT OHIO, AND FOR AS SPLENDID AS THEY ARE THOUGHT TO BE, IT'S QUITE MEDIOCRE THAT THEY HAVEN'T BROUGHT US A MAC TITLE. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top Bcat2 General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 4,295 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/4/2016 9:33:20 AM  Monroe Slavin wrote: If people don't care about football, that's fine. I repeat: if we want to drop the program, I don't think that I'd much object. BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FOOTBALL PROGRAM AND IT'S GOING TO PLAY IN THE MAC, THEN IT IS INSANE TO NOT ASPIRE TO THE MAC TITLE AS THE PRIMARY PROGRAM GOAL. IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT WE USED TO BE INCREDIBLY HORRIBLE. FOR THE $$$ WE'RE PAYING THIS STAFF AND FOR THE LENGTH OF TIME THAT THEY HAVE BEEN AT OHIO, AND FOR AS SPLENDID AS THEY ARE THOUGHT TO BE, IT'S QUITE MEDIOCRE THAT THEY HAVEN'T BROUGHT US A MAC TITLE. What they have achieved is significant. It takes a closed mind to ignore the below accomplishments. Head Coach Frank Solich Alma Mater Nebraska, 1966 Record at Ohio 80-61, .567 (11th Year) MAC Record 53-35, .600 (11th Year) Career Record 138-80, .633 (17th Year) MAC Coaching Records TOP 5 BY WINS 1. 110 Herb Deromedi, CMU 2. 108 Bill Hess, Ohio 3. 80 Frank Solich, Ohio 4. 79 Bob Pruett, Marshall 5. 77 Doyt Perry, BGSU OHIO vs MAC Since 2009 (Credit to 71Bobcat) W -L Record Bowl Eligibility NIU 72-25 7 Ohio 57-35 7 Toledo 57-32 6 BG 50-42 5 CMU 45-44 4 WMU 39-48 4 Ball 39-47 2 Kent 35-50 1 Buffalo 30-54 1 Miami 24-62 1 Akron 24-61 1 EMU 15-69 0 2009-2015 for games against MAC teams with winning records: Thanks L.C. NIU 16-8 .667 Toledo 11-16 .407 CMU 9-16 .360 Ohio 8-15 .348 BG 10-19 .345 WMU 6-19 .240 Ball St 7-23 .233 Kent 6-21 .222 Buffalo 3-23 .115 Miami 2-25 .074 Akron 1-23 .042 Temple 0-5 .000 UMass 0-13 .000 EMU 0-33 .000 Total 79-259 .234 In the last 41 years, Ohio University football has been to just nine bowl games, however seven of those bowl appearances have come during head coach Frank Solich’s 11 years in Athens. 1973-2004 2005-15 Seasons 32 11 Coaches 7 1 Wins Per Year 3.7 7.3 Record 119-228 80-61 Winning Seasons 7 7 Bowl Appearances 0 7 Bowl Wins 0 2 MAC leading attendance 21,323 up 800 per game. AMONG THE BEST IN THE MAC Ohio’s 76 wins since 2006 are the second most victories by any school in the Mid-American Conference during that period. Northern Illinois is the only school that has more wins. 1. Northern Illinois - 87 2. Ohio - 76 3. Central Michigan - 70 2014 vs 2015 Wins 8 vs 6, up 33%. Quality wins vs 10-3 bowl winning Marshall, 8-5 bowl winning Akron & 8-5 MAC West Champion & bowl team NIU. Statistics 2014 vs 2015. Scoring. 2014 Ohio/OPP 246/298, 2015 Ohio/OPP 358/329. Points Per Game. 2014 Ohio/OPP 20.5/24.8, 2015 Ohio/OPP 27.5/25.3 First Downs. 2014 Ohio/OPP 233/246, 2015 Ohio/OPP 285/248 Rushing Yards. 2014 Ohio/OPP 1969/1595, 2015 Ohio/OPP 2352/2147 Passing Yards. 2014 Ohio/OPP 2474/3137, 2015 Ohio/OPP 3026/2723 Total Offense. 2014 Ohio/OPP 4443/4732, 2015 Ohio/OPP 5378/4910 Fumbles-Lost. 2014 Ohio Fumbles/Lost 24/14, 2015 Ohio Fumbles/Lost 9/4 Time of Possession. 2014 Ohio/OPP 29:48/30:12, 2015 Ohio/OPP 32:15/27:44 First Half Scoring. 2014 Ohio/OPP 115/169. 2015 Ohio/OPP 214/139 Average Attendance. Ohio 2014/2015 20515/21323 2015 Ohio better than opponent: Scoring, Points Per Game, First Downs, Rushing Yards, Passing Yards,Total Offense, Time of Possession, First Half Scoring. In the past four seasons, the Bobcats have had 31 Academic All-MAC selections. He has also had two seasons where an Ohio player has been named a semifinalist for the Draddy Trophy, one of the most prestigious academic honors in college football. Academic success is nothing new for Solich’s teams. While head coach at Nebraska, almost 90 percent of his student-athletes earned their degree. Seven times Huskers earned first-team CoSIDA Academic All-America honors and on four other occasions, second-team honors were bestowed. "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/4/2016 12:23:00 PM  Bcat2 wrote: Monroe Slavin wrote: If people don't care about football, that's fine. I repeat: if we want to drop the program, I don't think that I'd much object. BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FOOTBALL PROGRAM AND IT'S GOING TO PLAY IN THE MAC, THEN IT IS INSANE TO NOT ASPIRE TO THE MAC TITLE AS THE PRIMARY PROGRAM GOAL. IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT WE USED TO BE INCREDIBLY HORRIBLE. FOR THE $$$ WE'RE PAYING THIS STAFF AND FOR THE LENGTH OF TIME THAT THEY HAVE BEEN AT OHIO, AND FOR AS SPLENDID AS THEY ARE THOUGHT TO BE, IT'S QUITE MEDIOCRE THAT THEY HAVEN'T BROUGHT US A MAC TITLE. What they have achieved is significant. It takes a closed mind to ignore the below accomplishments. Head Coach Frank Solich Alma Mater Nebraska, 1966 Record at Ohio 80-61, .567 (11th Year) MAC Record 53-35, .600 (11th Year) Career Record 138-80, .633 (17th Year) MAC Coaching Records TOP 5 BY WINS 1. 110 Herb Deromedi, CMU 2. 108 Bill Hess, Ohio 3. 80 Frank Solich, Ohio 4. 79 Bob Pruett, Marshall 5. 77 Doyt Perry, BGSU OHIO vs MAC Since 2009 (Credit to 71Bobcat) W -L Record Bowl Eligibility NIU 72-25 7 Ohio 57-35 7 Toledo 57-32 6 BG 50-42 5 CMU 45-44 4 WMU 39-48 4 Ball 39-47 2 Kent 35-50 1 Buffalo 30-54 1 Miami 24-62 1 Akron 24-61 1 EMU 15-69 0 2009-2015 for games against MAC teams with winning records: Thanks L.C. NIU 16-8 .667 Toledo 11-16 .407 CMU 9-16 .360 Ohio 8-15 .348 BG 10-19 .345 WMU 6-19 .240 Ball St 7-23 .233 Kent 6-21 .222 Buffalo 3-23 .115 Miami 2-25 .074 Akron 1-23 .042 Temple 0-5 .000 UMass 0-13 .000 EMU 0-33 .000 Total 79-259 .234 In the last 41 years, Ohio University football has been to just nine bowl games, however seven of those bowl appearances have come during head coach Frank Solich’s 11 years in Athens. 1973-2004 2005-15 Seasons 32 11 Coaches 7 1 Wins Per Year 3.7 7.3 Record 119-228 80-61 Winning Seasons 7 7 Bowl Appearances 0 7 Bowl Wins 0 2 MAC leading attendance 21,323 up 800 per game. AMONG THE BEST IN THE MAC Ohio’s 76 wins since 2006 are the second most victories by any school in the Mid-American Conference during that period. Northern Illinois is the only school that has more wins. 1. Northern Illinois - 87 2. Ohio - 76 3. Central Michigan - 70 2014 vs 2015 Wins 8 vs 6, up 33%. Quality wins vs 10-3 bowl winning Marshall, 8-5 bowl winning Akron & 8-5 MAC West Champion & bowl team NIU. Statistics 2014 vs 2015. Scoring. 2014 Ohio/OPP 246/298, 2015 Ohio/OPP 358/329. Points Per Game. 2014 Ohio/OPP 20.5/24.8, 2015 Ohio/OPP 27.5/25.3 First Downs. 2014 Ohio/OPP 233/246, 2015 Ohio/OPP 285/248 Rushing Yards. 2014 Ohio/OPP 1969/1595, 2015 Ohio/OPP 2352/2147 Passing Yards. 2014 Ohio/OPP 2474/3137, 2015 Ohio/OPP 3026/2723 Total Offense. 2014 Ohio/OPP 4443/4732, 2015 Ohio/OPP 5378/4910 Fumbles-Lost. 2014 Ohio Fumbles/Lost 24/14, 2015 Ohio Fumbles/Lost 9/4 Time of Possession. 2014 Ohio/OPP 29:48/30:12, 2015 Ohio/OPP 32:15/27:44 First Half Scoring. 2014 Ohio/OPP 115/169. 2015 Ohio/OPP 214/139 Average Attendance. Ohio 2014/2015 20515/21323 2015 Ohio better than opponent: Scoring, Points Per Game, First Downs, Rushing Yards, Passing Yards,Total Offense, Time of Possession, First Half Scoring. In the past four seasons, the Bobcats have had 31 Academic All-MAC selections. He has also had two seasons where an Ohio player has been named a semifinalist for the Draddy Trophy, one of the most prestigious academic honors in college football. Academic success is nothing new for Solich’s teams. While head coach at Nebraska, almost 90 percent of his student-athletes earned their degree. Seven times Huskers earned first-team CoSIDA Academic All-America honors and on four other occasions, second-team honors were bestowed. Please stop accepting 1) baseline accomplishments (such as good academic progress) as things to be revered for and 2) who-cares stats such as first half scoring as relevant. Do post the single most relevant stat: number of MAC titles. Hey, please post the number of MAC titles for all coaches in the last 50 years who have been at a school for over 10 years. Or, more succinctly, stop being a sold out true believer. Do post the single most relevant stat: number of MAC titles. Do post the single most relevant stat: number of MAC titles. Do post the single most relevant stat: number of MAC titles. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top mid70sbobcat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 655 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/4/2016 1:47:08 PM  Monroe Slavin wrote: Please stop accepting 1) baseline accomplishments (such as good academic progress) as things to be revered for and 2) who-cares stats such as first half scoring as relevant. Do post the single most relevant stat: number of MAC titles. Hey, please post the number of MAC titles for all coaches in the last 50 years who have been at a school for over 10 years. Or, more succinctly, stop being a sold out true believer. Do post the single most relevant stat: number of MAC titles. Do post the single most relevant stat: number of MAC titles. Do post the single most relevant stat: number of MAC titles. Your logic, or lack thereof, is quite amazing. I volunteer and help students in math and have done so 14 years. By your logic making the all A honor roll is the only thing that would equate to real success (kind of like your repetitive MAC title obsession). So in your view then the kids who have all A's and one B or a similar set of achievements would be deemed "mediocre" (as you say of Frank and our record). I mean by your standards it's "all or nothing". Funny how you refuse to acknowledge FACTS as presented by Bcat2. I'll take the achievements of Solich & Staff over the past 11 years as well as the accomplishments of the student-athletes on and off the field. Further, I suspect Ohio has received more national publicity by mentions of guys like Mike Mitchell, Travis Carrie etc. than had we won a MAC title. Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/5/2016 1:41:06 AM  I acknowl the facts that were presented, just pointed out that they are not really relevent. Do you seriously contend that winning a MAC title is not the #1 goal? Students are not paid. The #1 goal for students, reasonably viewed, is not straight A's. For these, and probably a ton of other reasons, your analogy between judging our long-time-here coaches against students getting all A's is a wonder of dis-logic. Why are you so peeved that I make logical arguments of reasonable analysis and expectations?: If our coaches are so wondrous, how come no MAC title in 11 years, along with a large series of horrible losses over the past 3-4 years? Concluding that our coaches are mediocre is a) not a long shot and b) not controverted by praising them for minimal/baseline goals such as not having players get in trouble or having them do decently academically. Go, enjoy the games on the basis that you view the football experience (crowd, memories experience, etc). But don't tell me that we are meeting a reasonable football standard to have no MAC after 11 years coupled with head-shaking losses. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top mid70sbobcat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 655 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/5/2016 1:56:35 PM  Monroe Slavin wrote: I acknowl the facts that were presented, just pointed out that they are not really relevent. Do you seriously contend that winning a MAC title is not the #1 goal? Students are not paid. The #1 goal for students, reasonably viewed, is not straight A's. For these, and probably a ton of other reasons, your analogy between judging our long-time-here coaches against students getting all A's is a wonder of dis-logic. Why are you so peeved that I make logical arguments of reasonable analysis and expectations?: If our coaches are so wondrous, how come no MAC title in 11 years, along with a large series of horrible losses over the past 3-4 years? Concluding that our coaches are mediocre is a) not a long shot and b) not controverted by praising them for minimal/baseline goals such as not having players get in trouble or having them do decently academically. Go, enjoy the games on the basis that you view the football experience (crowd, memories experience, etc). But don't tell me that we are meeting a reasonable football standard to have no MAC after 11 years coupled with head-shaking losses. So FACTS are NOT relevant but your opinion is? LOL Student athletes are paid in terms of a 4 or 5 year education. And what's that worth financially? Per the Ohio web site an in state student is at $24K per year and out of state at $33.5K per year. So a 4 year student athlete in state is $96K and 5 years is $120K. Out of state are $134K and $167K respectively (4 and 5 years). https://www.ohio.edu/admissions/tuition/index.cfm And for the record, the students I've worked with as a volunteer the past 14 years are NOT college students. I was pointing out the absurdity of your attempt at 'logic'. Does Frank want to win a MACC? Sure. But that in itself does NOT (and never will) define success. Similarly with kids, all A's is not the only definition of success. Those who do well across the board in their classes are seen as successful as well. I guess I'm 'peeved' in that your opinions are NOT reasonable. A single data point in your mind defines success. As others have pointed out .... what's Frank's record at Ohio? A heck of a lot better than predecessors going back 40 years. Conclusion: You are 100% hopeless. If you were even close to being correct I assume Schaus and/or McDavis would have seen the light and canned Frank. The very fact that didn't happen negates your faulty logic that has more holes in it than swiss cheese. PS Do you get paid for each post that (1) is about no MACC in 11 years and (2) that we have 3-4 horrible, crashing, etc. losses in recent years. Call up Schaus and let him know how poorly we're doing. I suspect your conversation would last under 3 minutes. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,067 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/5/2016 9:04:56 PM  This has been an entertaining discussion. The interesting thing is that this is a thread where it actually is appropriate. The question is, can people have multiple objectives they want to optimize? Most answer yes, while Monroe answers no, there can only be one. Here are some facts that I think most people here would agree with: 1. By all accounts Solich has run a clean program, and there seem to be less and less off the field incidents with each passing year. 2. By all accounts he has a heavy emphasis on the "student" part of "student-athlete", and the student-athletes do well in class, and hopefully will be successful after school, rather than leaving after 4 years with little to show for their time. 3. By all accounts he has steadily improved the facilities steadily, renovating facilities, building a new IPF, and soon a new Academic Center will be built. 4. Whenever he leaves, the program in better condition than when he found it. 5. Other than an incident in 2006, Solich has been a positive face for Ohio in the national media for the last eleven years. 6. Ohio has been on National TV far more often in the last 11 years than ever before, and in fact, more often than most, if not all, other MAC teams during the last 11 years. (I believe they have also won more than they have lost on TV, but I don't have any facts on that.) 7. Under Solich, Ohio has won more games than only a handful of MAC schools during the same time period. 8. Recruiting classes continue to improve each year 9. Ohio appears poised to have very good teams for the next several years Are any of these part of a valid objective function? Is it plausible that some people put more value on these items than on MAC Championships? I would say that it isn't reasonable to expect everyone has the same goals and objectives. My net conclusion is that I'm impressed with the job Solich has done, and continues to do. I don't think he's perfect, and I think he sometimes changes things too much, but on the whole I have very few complaints. I respect Monroe's right to have a differing objective function, and thus to reach a different conclusion. On the other hand, it would appear that Schaus and McDavis are satisfied with his body of work. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/6/2016 7:10:46 PM  L.C. wrote: This has been an entertaining discussion. The interesting thing is that this is a thread where it actually is appropriate. The question is, can people have multiple objectives they want to optimize? Most answer yes, while Monroe answers no, there can only be one. Here are some facts that I think most people here would agree with: 1. By all accounts Solich has run a clean program, and there seem to be less and less off the field incidents with each passing year. GOOD, BUT BASELINE/MINIMAL--NO PARTICULAR CREDIT FOR THIS EXPECTED ACCOMPLISHMENT. PROPERLY EVALUATED, THIS WOULD BE A BAD MARK IF NOT ACHIEVED. 2. By all accounts he has a heavy emphasis on the "student" part of "student-athlete", and the student-athletes do well in class, and hopefully will be successful after school, rather than leaving after 4 years with little to show for their time. GOOD, BUT BASELINE/MINIMAL--NO PARTICULAR CREDIT FOR THIS EXPECTED ACCOMPLISHMENT. PROPERLY EVALUATED, THIS WOULD BE A BAD MARK IF NOT ACHIEVED. 3. By all accounts he has steadily improved the facilities steadily, renovating facilities, building a new IPF, and soon a new Academic Center will be built. NICE--BUT WHERE IS THE MAC TITLE AFTER SO MANY YEARS AND IMPROVED FACILITIES? 4. Whenever he leaves, the program in better condition than when he found it. WHICH WE EXPECT OF ANYONE DOING ANY JOB SO BASELINE/MINIMAL--NO PARTICULAR CREDIT FOR THIS EXPECTED ACCOMPLISHMENT. PROPERLY EVALUATED, THIS WOULD BE A BAD MARK IF NOT ACHIEVED. 5. Other than an incident in 2006, Solich has been a positive face for Ohio in the national media for the last eleven years. WHICH WE EXPECT OF ANYONE DOING THIS ANY UNIVERSITY JOB SO BASELINE/MINIMAL--NO PARTICULAR CREDIT FOR THIS EXPECTED ACCOMPLISHMENT. PROPERLY EVALUATED, THIS WOULD BE A BAD MARK IF NOT ACHIEVED. 6. Ohio has been on National TV far more often in the last 11 years than ever before, and in fact, more often than most, if not all, other MAC teams during the last 11 years. (I believe they have also won more than they have lost on TV, but I don't have any facts on that.) THEN, WHERE ARE THE BETTER RECRUITS, WHERE IS THE MAC TITLE? 7. Under Solich, Ohio has won more games than only a handful of MAC schools during the same time period. THEN, WHERE ARE THE BETTER RECRUITS, WHERE IS THE MAC TITLE? 8. Recruiting classes continue to improve each year THEN, WHERE ARE THE BETTER RECRUITS, WHERE IS THE MAC TITLE? HOW CAN YOU PROVE, BEYOND YOUR FAITH, THAT THE RECRUITS ARE BETTER? 9. Ohio appears poised to have very good teams for the next several years NOW, WE'RE GIVING TROPHIES FOR PROJECTIONS INSTEAD OF ACTUAL ACCOMPLISHMENT. Are any of these part of a valid objective function? NOT REALLY, NOT BEYOND HITTING RATHER MINIMAL STANDARDS Is it plausible that some people put more value on these items than on MAC Championships? I would say that it isn't reasonable to expect everyone has the same goals and objectives. PLAYING FOOTBALL IN THE MAC DOES NOT CARRY A CONSENSUS GOAL OF A MAC TITLE ONCE IN A WHILE, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT 3-6 TEAMS IN MAC EACH YEAR ARE HORRIBLE? My net conclusion is that I'm impressed with the job Solich has done, and continues to do. MY NET CONCLUSION IS THAT YOUR STANDARD IS WRONG AND TOO LOW I don't think he's perfect, and I think he sometimes changes things too much, but on the whole I have very few complaints. I respect Monroe's right to have a differing objective function, and thus to reach a different conclusion. On the other hand, it would appear that Schaus and McDavis are satisfied with his body of work. OR TOO HEMMED IN FINANCIALLY TO ADJUST With love, I have FIXED the above for you. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top colobobcat66 General User Member Since: 9/1/2006 Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO Post Count: 4,158 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/6/2016 7:47:49 PM  Monroe Slavin wrote: L.C. wrote: This has been an entertaining discussion. The interesting thing is that this is a thread where it actually is appropriate. The question is, can people have multiple objectives they want to optimize? Most answer yes, while Monroe answers no, there can only be one. Here are some facts that I think most people here would agree with: 1. By all accounts Solich has run a clean program, and there seem to be less and less off the field incidents with each passing year. GOOD, BUT BASELINE/MINIMAL--NO PARTICULAR CREDIT FOR THIS EXPECTED ACCOMPLISHMENT. PROPERLY EVALUATED, THIS WOULD BE A BAD MARK IF NOT ACHIEVED. 2. By all accounts he has a heavy emphasis on the "student" part of "student-athlete", and the student-athletes do well in class, and hopefully will be successful after school, rather than leaving after 4 years with little to show for their time. GOOD, BUT BASELINE/MINIMAL--NO PARTICULAR CREDIT FOR THIS EXPECTED ACCOMPLISHMENT. PROPERLY EVALUATED, THIS WOULD BE A BAD MARK IF NOT ACHIEVED. 3. By all accounts he has steadily improved the facilities steadily, renovating facilities, building a new IPF, and soon a new Academic Center will be built. NICE--BUT WHERE IS THE MAC TITLE AFTER SO MANY YEARS AND IMPROVED FACILITIES? 4. Whenever he leaves, the program in better condition than when he found it. WHICH WE EXPECT OF ANYONE DOING ANY JOB SO BASELINE/MINIMAL--NO PARTICULAR CREDIT FOR THIS EXPECTED ACCOMPLISHMENT. PROPERLY EVALUATED, THIS WOULD BE A BAD MARK IF NOT ACHIEVED. 5. Other than an incident in 2006, Solich has been a positive face for Ohio in the national media for the last eleven years. WHICH WE EXPECT OF ANYONE DOING THIS ANY UNIVERSITY JOB SO BASELINE/MINIMAL--NO PARTICULAR CREDIT FOR THIS EXPECTED ACCOMPLISHMENT. PROPERLY EVALUATED, THIS WOULD BE A BAD MARK IF NOT ACHIEVED. 6. Ohio has been on National TV far more often in the last 11 years than ever before, and in fact, more often than most, if not all, other MAC teams during the last 11 years. (I believe they have also won more than they have lost on TV, but I don't have any facts on that.) THEN, WHERE ARE THE BETTER RECRUITS, WHERE IS THE MAC TITLE? 7. Under Solich, Ohio has won more games than only a handful of MAC schools during the same time period. THEN, WHERE ARE THE BETTER RECRUITS, WHERE IS THE MAC TITLE? 8. Recruiting classes continue to improve each year THEN, WHERE ARE THE BETTER RECRUITS, WHERE IS THE MAC TITLE? HOW CAN YOU PROVE, BEYOND YOUR FAITH, THAT THE RECRUITS ARE BETTER? 9. Ohio appears poised to have very good teams for the next several years NOW, WE'RE GIVING TROPHIES FOR PROJECTIONS INSTEAD OF ACTUAL ACCOMPLISHMENT. Are any of these part of a valid objective function? NOT REALLY, NOT BEYOND HITTING RATHER MINIMAL STANDARDS Is it plausible that some people put more value on these items than on MAC Championships? I would say that it isn't reasonable to expect everyone has the same goals and objectives. PLAYING FOOTBALL IN THE MAC DOES NOT CARRY A CONSENSUS GOAL OF A MAC TITLE ONCE IN A WHILE, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT 3-6 TEAMS IN MAC EACH YEAR ARE HORRIBLE? My net conclusion is that I'm impressed with the job Solich has done, and continues to do. MY NET CONCLUSION IS THAT YOUR STANDARD IS WRONG AND TOO LOW I don't think he's perfect, and I think he sometimes changes things too much, but on the whole I have very few complaints. I respect Monroe's right to have a differing objective function, and thus to reach a different conclusion. On the other hand, it would appear that Schaus and McDavis are satisfied with his body of work. OR TOO HEMMED IN FINANCIALLY TO ADJUST With love, I have FIXED the above for you. So answer the question-why did Athlon rate Solich so high? Can it be that there are other opinions than yours which may be correct? Last Edited: 6/6/2016 7:51:51 PM by colobobcat66 Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/6/2016 8:34:05 PM  Seriously, I think that Solich rides a lot on his reputation from Nebraska and many remember those many years when were were The Worst Team Ever. I think that writers take a quick view. They see that we're going to bowls now and winning some--as we've never done before. A closer view, taking in to consideration the recent stall in progress, the recent too many big losses, the evident arch-conservative play-calling, and the lack of a MAC title after 11 years should yield a different view. I repeat...and no one's ever contravened this: I was about Solich's biggest fan until about three years ago. I appraised him then, held him then in high esteem for what I saw. And, I appraise now for what I see now. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top colobobcat66 General User Member Since: 9/1/2006 Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO Post Count: 4,158 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/6/2016 8:57:10 PM  Monroe Slavin wrote: Seriously, I think that Solich rides a lot on his reputation from Nebraska and many remember those many years when were were The Worst Team Ever. I think that writers take a quick view. They see that we're going to bowls now and winning some--as we've never done before. A closer view, taking in to consideration the recent stall in progress, the recent too many big losses, the evident arch-conservative play-calling, and the lack of a MAC title after 11 years should yield a different view. I repeat...and no one's ever contravened this: I was about Solich's biggest fan until about three years ago. I appraised him then, held him then in high esteem for what I saw. And, I appraise now for what I see now. Fair enough. Given up, I get it. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,067 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/6/2016 9:17:17 PM  Monroe Slavin wrote: Seriously, I think that Solich rides a lot on his reputation from Nebraska and many remember those many years when were were The Worst Team Ever.... I disagree. At Nebraska Solich inherited a powerful team. He built nothing. Therefore how much he accomplished was indeterminate. Those that liked him credited him with continuing the traditions, which is an accomplishment that has gained some luster with each successive coach that has been unable to match his work. Those that disliked Solich blamed him for not being able to match Tom Osborne. By contrast, his body at work at Ohio is not based on coming into a winning program, and merely continuing what was already here. He had to start with what he found, and build something different. When Solich retires, his reputation will be based primarily on what he accomplishes, or doesn't accomplish at Ohio. As for your comments on my post above, two things stand out. First, I note that you don't dispute any of the things I credit as his accomplishments. Second, I note that you don't respect the right of others to have different opinions than yourself. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Bcat2 General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 4,295 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/7/2016 1:13:10 AM  L.C. wrote: Monroe Slavin wrote: Seriously, I think that Solich rides a lot on his reputation from Nebraska and many remember those many years when were were The Worst Team Ever.... I disagree. At Nebraska Solich inherited a powerful team. He built nothing. Therefore how much he accomplished was indeterminate. Those that liked him credited him with continuing the traditions, which is an accomplishment that has gained some luster with each successive coach that has been unable to match his work. Those that disliked Solich blamed him for not being able to match Tom Osborne. By contrast, his body at work at Ohio is not based on coming into a winning program, and merely continuing what was already here. He had to start with what he found, and build something different. When Solich retires, his reputation will be based primarily on what he accomplishes, or doesn't accomplish at Ohio. As for your comments on my post above, two things stand out. First, I note that you don't dispute any of the things I credit as his accomplishments. Second, I note that you don't respect the right of others to have different opinions than yourself. L.C. You must have missed his "With love, I have FIXED the above for you." "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK Back to Top OrlandoCat General User Member Since: 3/15/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 355 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/7/2016 2:51:20 PM  L.C. wrote: Monroe Slavin wrote: Seriously, I think that Solich rides a lot on his reputation from Nebraska and many remember those many years when were were The Worst Team Ever.... I disagree. At Nebraska Solich inherited a powerful team. He built nothing. Therefore how much he accomplished was indeterminate. Those that liked him credited him with continuing the traditions, which is an accomplishment that has gained some luster with each successive coach that has been unable to match his work. Those that disliked Solich blamed him for not being able to match Tom Osborne. By contrast, his body at work at Ohio is not based on coming into a winning program, and merely continuing what was already here. He had to start with what he found, and build something different. When Solich retires, his reputation will be based primarily on what he accomplishes, or doesn't accomplish at Ohio. As for your comments on my post above, two things stand out. First, I note that you don't dispute any of the things I credit as his accomplishments. Second, I note that you don't respect the right of others to have different opinions than yourself. LC: I'm surprised you still go at this with him. It became apparent to me that he would never willingly understand any of your points after you posed the would you rather have the last 10 years of Miami's football history (1 macc, tons of losses since) or OU's (0 macc, plenty of wins and bowls) and he proceeded to lose his mind. You can only lead a horse to water so many times. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,067 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/7/2016 5:04:24 PM  Well, you see, this is a thread where the discussion is actually appropriate, unlike most of the other threads where it pops up, so it was an appropriate place to respond. My post was more a consolidation of the thoughts previously posted by others on this thread, not a bunch of new information. I have no illusion that I, or anyone else, will ever change his mind. I do respect his right to have a different opinion than mine, so I'm fairly tolerant of his incessant repetition. My sole hope in posting here was that I might help him see how intolerant his is of the opinions of others who don't agree with him. People often pay lip service to concepts like freedom of speech or freedom of religion, but don't see their own flaws, and don't realize that they themselves actively attempt to suppress views contrary to their own. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/7/2016 6:01:37 PM  L.C. wrote: . . . People often pay lip service to concepts like freedom of speech or freedom of religion, but don't see their own flaws, and don't realize that they themselves actively attempt to suppress views contrary to their own. I will not be drawn into this ongoing and rather tedious discussion, but I do want to acknowledge that L.C. has once again hit the nail on the head with the above statement. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/7/2016 10:12:30 PM  mid70sbobcat wrote: PS Do you get paid for each post that (1) is about no MACC in 11 years and (2) that we have 3-4 horrible, crashing, etc. losses in recent years. Call up Schaus and let him know how poorly we're doing. I suspect your conversation would last under 3 minutes. It's 3-4 horrible losses PER YEAR for the past 4 seasons. Losses that have removed the Bobcats from contention. I can't swallow the idea that this is as good as it gets for Ohio Football. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/7/2016 10:33:50 PM  BayCat wrote: Now: Crowds of over 20K on a regular basis; players that get drafted by the NFL; regular trips to bowl games; facility improvements; competitive teams every year. That has to do with the increased level of investment in football by the administrations of the past 20 years. The development of social media and the development of the MAC as a major football conference have helped. I knew the Ohio was on a collision course for a good football team with the direction the university was headed in. Frank was a shot in the arm when hired but attendance really didn't start going up until Schaus was hired. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top cc-cat General User Member Since: 4/5/2006 Location: matthews, NC Post Count: 3,821 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/8/2016 1:47:12 PM  This discussion always makes me ask the long-time question, "what is the primary goal of a restaurant? How is its success defined?" Make money? provide the height of culinary art? provide a good time? present a nice night out? Deliver a great ambiance? Win awards/recognition? So many different criteria for success. Beyond making money (a gotta do), is there a universal, single goal? Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,023 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/8/2016 1:55:05 PM  cc-cat wrote: This discussion always makes me ask the long-time question, "what is the primary goal of a restaurant? How is its success defined?" Make money? provide the height of culinary art? provide a good time? present a nice night out? Deliver a great ambiance? Win awards/recognition? So many different criteria for success. Beyond making money (a gotta do), is there a universal, single goal? This is number 1 from a customer point of view - meet or exceed the customer's expectations when he or she makes the reservation. That is truly when the restaurant experience begins. Back to Top Robert Fox General User Member Since: 11/16/2004 Location: Knoxville, TN Post Count: 2,039 Status: Offline     RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches    Posted: 6/8/2016 2:00:39 PM  cc-cat wrote: So many different criteria for success. Beyond making money (a gotta do), is there a universal, single goal? In my opinion, no. There's not. That's the critical difference between Monroe and LC (and their respective camps): the definition of a single goal. Monroe's goal is easy: A MAC Championship. That's it. All other necessities he deems as "expected" or "baseline." For LC, the goal is more nuanced, but it's generally: Winning consistently at a pace that puts Ohio at or near the top of the MAC. LC considers the other necessities a value in assessing a coach, but those necessities are somewhat secondary to the overall goal. That's my take of their individual points of view. I could be wrong. 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