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Topic: Athlon Ranking of MAC FB Coaches

Topic: Athlon Ranking of MAC FB Coaches

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Bcat2
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Athlon Ranking of MAC FB Coaches

Posted: 5/27/2016 5:18:08 PM

Coach Solich #2 behind Fleck.

http://athlonsports.com/college-football/ranking-macs-col...

"Solich isn’t flashy, but he’s brought consistent success to the Bobcats."

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

oldkatz
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
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RE: Athlon Ranking of MAC FB Coaches

Posted: 5/27/2016 5:49:30 PM

Wait for it...........it's coming............

"All my inside sources tell me I have no inside sources." Salvatore "money bucks" Mafiosiano.

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Athlon Ranking of MAC FB Coaches

Posted: 5/27/2016 6:27:34 PM

oldkatz wrote:

Wait for it...........it's coming............

I can almost hear it, oh no, I can't. These damn cicadas.

71 BOBCAT
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RE: Athlon Ranking of MAC FB Coaches

Posted: 5/28/2016 9:50:46 AM

This report is probably pretty accurate from my perspective.
There is always so many coaching changes in this league that one really needs to also look at stability in a program along with winning. Frank continues to prove his ability to provide both.
While many on this board would like to see more 10 win seasons and MACC and bowl game wins the program has been turned around and is a consistent winner.
I am excited for the start of a new season.

GO BOBCATS

Last Edited: 5/28/2016 9:51:18 AM by 71 BOBCAT

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/28/2016 10:58:12 AM

Yeah, that's a really deep and specific analysis.

Clearly, a guy who's been coach at a school in a really weak conference, in which about 5-6 teams each year are among the worst in the nation, but who hasn't won a league championship after 11 years has got to be a stellar coach.

Look, you can hate me all you want. But any reasonably objective view puts Solich and staff, based on all around achievement, in the MAC middle of the pack at best.

Again, if we were looking to hire a head coach, would you be thrilled to hear that we hired a guy who had been a MAC head coach for 11 years but hadn't won a title?

If we're going to pay our head coach a ton and allocate a relatively big amount of funding to the program, is it unreasonable to expect better results?

Last Edited: 5/28/2016 10:59:21 AM by Monroe Slavin

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colobobcat66
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/28/2016 11:06:59 AM

Yeah, Frank must have paid these guys off. This evaluation is probably closer to objective than certain posters are on here. All around achievement wise Solich is not middle of pack. No MACC, that's another story.

L.C.
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RE: Athlon Ranking of MAC FB Coaches

Posted: 5/28/2016 11:34:58 AM

Ignoring for the moment the question of where Solich belongs, I'd have ranked Bonemego and Leipold higher and Carey and Bowden lower, and perhaps Martin as well. Carey inherited a program at the top, but NIU seems to be drifting back to the middle of the MAC. The next couple years will cement his legacy, for better or worse. As for Bowden, he is certainly winning more, which is a start, but he's done it on the backs of transfers and Jucos, so I question how sustainable it is. Leipold and Bonemego both had good first years, and we shall see where they go from here. Martin has recruited well, but he hasn't won.

As for the difference in opinion between Monroe and Athlon, I attribute it primarily to differing assumptions. Athlon reflects the perspective that winning at Ohio is difficult, and that Solich started with substandard facilities, and that he therfore had a lot of building to do, while Monroe reflects the opinion that winning at Ohio is easy and should be expected. My assumptions align closer to Athlon.

Last Edited: 5/28/2016 11:37:26 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/29/2016 12:33:14 AM

colobobcat66 wrote:

[QUOTE=Monroe Slavin] Yeah, that's a really deep and specific analysis.

Clearly, a guy who's been coach at a school in a really weak conference, in which about 5-6 teams each year are among the worst in the nation, but who hasn't won a league championship after 11 years has got to be a stellar coach.

Look, you can hate me all you want. But any reasonably objective view puts Solich and staff, based on all around achievement, in the MAC middle of the pack at best.

Again, if we were looking to hire a head coach, would you be thrilled to hear that we hired a guy who had been a MAC head coach for 11 years but hadn't won a title?

If we're going to pay our head coach a ton and allocate a relatively big amount of funding to the program, is it unreasonable to expect better results?

Yeah, Frank must have paid these guys off. This evaluation is probably closer to objective than certain posters are on here. All around achievement wise Solich is not middle of pack. No MACC, that's another story.

Answer the question, jack: If we were looking to hire a head coach, would you be thrilled to hear that we hired a guy who had been a MAC head coach for 11 years but hadn't won a title?

AFTER 11 YEARS, HE'S HAD ENOUGH INFLUENCE AND SUPPORT TO HAVE BROUGHT DOWN A TITLE AND NOT GOTTEN CREAMED SO MANY TIMES OVER THE LAST FOUR SEASONS. THAT'S GARBAGE ABOUT IT ALL BEING SOME ASSUMPTION THAT IT'S EASY TO WIN IN MAC.

HINT: MEDIOCRE IS MEDIOCRE.

colobobcat66
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/29/2016 8:38:33 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

Thanks for your keen insight. You're so smart.

Why do you think you're objective and a professional observer is not objective about coaching ability?

Thanks for letting us all know that your cap function works.

Last Edited: 5/29/2016 9:12:31 AM by colobobcat66

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/29/2016 10:00:12 AM

Given the "Baylor. Wow." thread below this one, and putting things in perspective, Athlon seems about right. Sure I'd like a MACC but I' m not going to crucify a winning football coach at Ohio U. since Ohio usually stinks in football. Solich's players seem to be good citizens (from what I can tell 200 miles away), they graduate with decent grades and the program's clean. Works for me.

PS. Yes I want a MACC but I want a clean and honest program I can proud of much more. Besides, the only Ohio alumni that even care about a MACC are those that read this board. All the other Ohio alumni simply don't. I come from a family of OU alumni and none of them care at all. I'm the outlier in my family.

Anyway, I hope all of you have a very happy Memorial Day weekend!

Last Edited: 5/29/2016 10:01:40 AM by Mark Lembright '85

Robert Fox
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/29/2016 11:34:27 AM

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

I come from a family of OU alumni and none of them care at all. I'm the outlier in my family.

Same here.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/29/2016 7:12:15 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

I come from a family of OU alumni and none of them care at all. I'm the outlier in my family.

Same here.

I agree that this is significantly true...which is sad given the very... unusually... high affinity for OHIO on the part of students and former students, etc.

66--just answer the question.

I hope that R Fox has it in his heart to forgive me for agreeing with him for once!

Last Edited: 5/29/2016 7:13:01 PM by Monroe Slavin

colobobcat66
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/29/2016 7:42:58 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

I come from a family of OU alumni and none of them care at all. I'm the outlier in my family.

Same here.

I'll answer your question this way, I'm happy with the overall results of what Solich has done at Ohio.

I'll ask you a question. What are you trying to do with your crusade to make everything Solich has done look like a failure?

mid70sbobcat
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/29/2016 8:39:11 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

(1) Winning a MACC does NOT define a successful program (only in your mind is that true).
(2) We are NOT a mediocre program. Sorry Monroe check the W-L record and try for once to deal with FACTS.
(3) Go root for USC or UCLA since Ohio will NEVER be a top program nationally as you seemingly want to think should happen. It's the MAC ... get it?
(4) You are a broken record ... does someone pay you for each of your (repetitive) posts?

Campus Flow
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/30/2016 10:25:17 AM

mid70sbobcat wrote:

(3) Go root for USC or UCLA since Ohio will NEVER be a top program nationally as you seemingly want to think should happen. It's the MAC ... get it?

Boise State has been a top national program over the last decade in the WAC a defunct football conference and the MWC. Better than UCLA over that time period. The MAC finished ahead of the MWC last year and is positioned well for the future. Monroe's point is the staff could be doing a better job and with an offense that has finished in the bottom 1/3rd of FBS on average the last 10
years it doesn't make sense to say its as good as it gets.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Campus Flow
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/30/2016 10:52:42 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Robert Fox wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

I come from a family of OU alumni and none of them care at all. I'm the outlier in my family.

Same here.

I agree that this is significantly true...which is sad given the very... unusually... high affinity for OHIO on the part of students and former students, etc.

Alumni don't care that much about a MACC and I agree. The bowl game is more important to my OU alumni family. They aren't completely aware of the MACC, and definitely not the streak of years without a MACC. I get some questions about crowd size when they go and see it packed.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/30/2016 3:46:23 PM

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

Look at our scheds. It seems that every year we play about 4-5 teams that are quite lousy. Building a moderate won-loss records on that basis is hardly asking for a top national program. I just want a MAC title.

By definition, winning a MACC is the top hallmark of success. Else, why be in the MAC and spend so much money on the program? Your thinking is not optimized.

The MAC is a weak conference. Expecting one MAC title in 11 years of coaching is hardly asking for an extreme goal.

Why are you so angry in the face of reasonable logic?

mid70sbobcat
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 5/31/2016 9:46:59 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

Yes, and our schedule is what it is. We ARE in the MAC and thus we play MAC teams.

So winning a MACC is the only thing that defines success? The achievements of the student athletes in the classroom mean nothing? The consistency in the program is meaningless? Actually I think your thinking is not optimized .... since you place everything on a single variable. Actually you picked on the wrong guy ... my MS at Ohio is in Operations Research and we studied quite a bit about optimization. There can be multiple variables that one tries to optimize in an objective function.

And last --- I'm not angry. Just perplexed that you post the same stuff over and over and over and over and .....................

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 6/1/2016 3:53:05 AM

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

M

MyMainMan--Do not cite baseline/minimal requirements as highly notable and praiseworthy. Consistency of 2-4 crashing losses per year over the last 4 years after having 7 years to build the program? Optimize this variable, pal: win a freakin' MACC.

And do it now.

Don't wait for the season to begin.

Do it now.

I'm angry. And perplexed as to how you don't understand the #1 reason for having the program in the MACC.

But I'm a happy angry.

mid70sbobcat
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 6/1/2016 7:24:55 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

99.9% of Ohio alums do NOT care about a MACC in football.

If your sole 'important' variable were so IMPORTANT then per your criteria Frank would be gone by now.

But he's still here .... doing the job he was hired to do .. building a program that is impressive in multiple areas (i.e. variables).

Stick with Finance/Accounting .. Optimization isn't your strong suit IMO.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 6/2/2016 3:20:47 PM

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

I get the hyperbole, but I doubt that it's 99.9% don't care..but/and again, if no one cares, then we should drop football. I'm okay with that. But if we're going to have a team and be in a conference and invest a lot of money in the program, it makes no sense not to put up a good effort for a title...makes no sense for that not to be the #1 goal.

Stop being impressed by baseline/minimal achievements such as clean program and academic progress, etc.

Clearly, cogent simplification was not part of your education, is alien to your cognitive process.

I got it accounted for, Fellow Bobcat Person.

mid70sbobcat
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 6/2/2016 3:35:13 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Many alums at most universities the size of Ohio don't follow intercollegiate athletics closely. Most are focused on their career, family life, kids, etc.

FYI --- the guys playing football are STUDENT-athletes. 99.9% of them will need to pursue a career other than pro sports after graduation. So a clean program and kids doing well academically is highly important. Or do you prefer we have football teams like Baylor or any other number of teams that have seemingly done well on the field only to have BIG problems off the field?

Rant on ... you always want to get in the last word. So go for it. Maybe one day you'll actually comprehend what intercollegiate athletics is all about.

OakStreet
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 6/3/2016 11:13:46 AM

I've been following OU football closely since graduating in 1987 (leave, Cleve!). I live out of state, but still attend a game or two every year and I'm paying attention by radio, TV or Internet to how the Bobcats are doing every time they take the field. I'm thrilled with what Frank Solich has done with the program over the years and fully agree with Athlon. If you talk with coaches from major college football programs, which I've done, there is tremendous respect for Frank Solich and his accomplishments at Ohio.

OU_Country
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 6/3/2016 1:41:16 PM

mid70sbobcat wrote:

I don't feel like I agree with anyone specific on here, but I'll add a couple thoughts to this thread. First, "rankings", such as these, are effectively pointless to me most of the time, but it gets us talking, so I guess it's a success in that regard.

Second, I fully agree that part of defining success for a MAC Football program should include the number of times you've been to or won the MAC Title game. While it might draw more attention, 90% of the bowl games the MAC plays in are useless attempts by ESPN to sell advertising. (Like most bowl games are). For me, Ohio is a mid-pack program until it wins in Detroit. That's not an insult to the work that's been done here, because it's considerably better than pre-Frank. It's just my opinion on Ohio, and MAC Football as a whole.

Third, I agree that a large number of Ohio Alumni don't care much about football. Some because they don't care about sports, others because they're ignorant and define Ohio University and the MAC as not being "big time" enough for their sports watching ego's. As an example, I have college roomies who are planning to attend an Ohio game with me this fall around the O$U schedule. I'm disgusted, but I otherwise love the guys, so I roll with it. Whatever the reason, I feel sorry for those who small time their own Alma Mater(s). They miss out. In fact, I'll take it a step farther for me personally. If it weren't for Ohio Football, and a little bit UC Football (family of Bearcats around me), I would pretty much be disengaged from college football because of what it's become in the "P5". I agree with mid70's that most players coming to Ohio aren't destined for pro careers. Frankly, I like that feeling that we're still watching college sports in Athens, rather than the pro-feel up here in Central Ohio.

Fourth, I'd like to ask (hence the reason for quoting mid70's post) what exactly you mean by "Many alums at most universities the size of Ohio don't follow intercollegiate athletics closely."?? I know not everyone focuses on sports in the way many of us on here do, but I guess I feel like in the State of Ohio, college football is sort of a big deal. I'm curious to understand what you mean by that?

ShoreCat
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RE: Athlon Ranking Coaches

Posted: 6/3/2016 1:52:20 PM

My tenure in the early 1990's: Sparse crowds; students that barely came to games and those who did left at halftime; little hope for competitive games against the top tier of the MAC; and a period of time where the most notable event at a football game happened because Miami interrupted the 110's halftime show.

Now: Crowds of over 20K on a regular basis; players that get drafted by the NFL; regular trips to bowl games; facility improvements; competitive teams every year.

I'll stick with Frank.

Last Edited: 6/3/2016 1:53:24 PM by ShoreCat

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