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Last Edited: 6/25/2016 3:06:13 PM by rpbobcat Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/25/2016 5:44:43 PM  rpbobcat wrote: The issue of the Faculty Senate is moot, now that the Board of Trustees voted unanimously to go ahead with the Sook Center's construction. When it comes to donated money, as far at the bot is concerned, the issue of faculty senate is pretty much moot on any topic. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/27/2016 12:40:01 PM  Pretty strong statement from Vedder: Richard Vedder, distinguished professor of economics emeritus at OU, called the university’s initial claim that the facility construction would be almost entirely donor-funded an “out and out lie” in an interview Saturday. http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/trustees-ok-k-to-de... Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,552 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/27/2016 1:10:47 PM  Alan Swank wrote: Pretty strong statement from Vedder: Richard Vedder, distinguished professor of economics emeritus at OU, called the university’s initial claim that the facility construction would be almost entirely donor-funded an “out and out lie” in an interview Saturday. http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/trustees-ok-k-to-de... Vedder reminds me a lot of Trump. He is very good at making outlandish remarks that garner press coverage. Vedder's core beliefs are easy enough to understand, but half the stuff he says is speaking in extremes that I doubt he believes. He makes these remarks solely to pander to the media. I have mad respect for his skills in this area. He is very, very good. article wrote: The university will need to take out a loan internally to help fund construction, with the OU Athletics Department paying both interest and principal on the loan. More than half of OU’s Athletics Department’s budget in the 2014-2015 year – about $16.3 million – came from general fees that all OU students pay. Money pledged by donors, as it’s deposited in the university’s coffers, can be used to help pay off the loan. This is an incredibly poorly worded and misleading excerpt from that article which exemplifies why I do not share Alan's respect for the Athens News. This is tabloid level reporting. Pretty obvious from looking at the numbers the University is not "funding" the construction of this center with anything but donor funds. Where the University is using internal money is in the "financing" of construction. HUGE difference between the two. Where does the cash ultimately come from? Is the University liquid enough to handle this financing deal the next year? My guess is yes. The "principal" of the loan is clearly covered by donations... As they come in. The only legitimate argument against this strategy would be to question the interest incurred. In the current environment, I'd imagine borrowing costs for the University would be limited, but at least that is a conversation worth having as opposed to this other nonsense the tabloids like to focus on.. I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/27/2016 2:02:34 PM  The Optimist wrote: Alan Swank wrote: Pretty strong statement from Vedder: Richard Vedder, distinguished professor of economics emeritus at OU, called the university’s initial claim that the facility construction would be almost entirely donor-funded an “out and out lie” in an interview Saturday. http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/trustees-ok-k-to-de... Vedder reminds me a lot of Trump. He is very good at making outlandish remarks that garner press coverage. Vedder's core beliefs are easy enough to understand, but half the stuff he says is speaking in extremes that I doubt he believes. He makes these remarks solely to pander to the media. I have mad respect for his skills in this area. He is very, very good. article wrote: The university will need to take out a loan internally to help fund construction, with the OU Athletics Department paying both interest and principal on the loan. More than half of OU’s Athletics Department’s budget in the 2014-2015 year – about $16.3 million – came from general fees that all OU students pay. Money pledged by donors, as it’s deposited in the university’s coffers, can be used to help pay off the loan. This is an incredibly poorly worded and misleading excerpt from that article which exemplifies why I do not share Alan's respect for the Athens News. This is tabloid level reporting. Pretty obvious from looking at the numbers the University is not "funding" the construction of this center with anything but donor funds. Where the University is using internal money is in the "financing" of construction. HUGE difference between the two. Where does the cash ultimately come from? Is the University liquid enough to handle this financing deal the next year? My guess is yes. The "principal" of the loan is clearly covered by donations... As they come in. The only legitimate argument against this strategy would be to question the interest incurred. In the current environment, I'd imagine borrowing costs for the University would be limited, but at least that is a conversation worth having as opposed to this other nonsense the tabloids like to focus on.. Seems pretty clear to me - like someone building a house, the university is taking out a loan to build this building because at the present time they don't have all the money in the bank to pay as they go. Nothing misleading about that at all. As for my respect for the ANews, they are the only paper in town doing any investigative journalism, a skill that I'm sure is taught in our nationally ranked journalism school and valued by it's graduates and their employers. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,454 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/27/2016 10:38:30 PM  Alan Swank wrote: The Optimist wrote: Alan Swank wrote: Pretty strong statement from Vedder: Richard Vedder, distinguished professor of economics emeritus at OU, called the university’s initial claim that the facility construction would be almost entirely donor-funded an “out and out lie” in an interview Saturday. http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/trustees-ok-k-to-de... Vedder reminds me a lot of Trump. He is very good at making outlandish remarks that garner press coverage. Vedder's core beliefs are easy enough to understand, but half the stuff he says is speaking in extremes that I doubt he believes. He makes these remarks solely to pander to the media. I have mad respect for his skills in this area. He is very, very good. article wrote: The university will need to take out a loan internally to help fund construction, with the OU Athletics Department paying both interest and principal on the loan. More than half of OU’s Athletics Department’s budget in the 2014-2015 year – about $16.3 million – came from general fees that all OU students pay. Money pledged by donors, as it’s deposited in the university’s coffers, can be used to help pay off the loan. This is an incredibly poorly worded and misleading excerpt from that article which exemplifies why I do not share Alan's respect for the Athens News. This is tabloid level reporting. Pretty obvious from looking at the numbers the University is not "funding" the construction of this center with anything but donor funds. Where the University is using internal money is in the "financing" of construction. HUGE difference between the two. Where does the cash ultimately come from? Is the University liquid enough to handle this financing deal the next year? My guess is yes. The "principal" of the loan is clearly covered by donations... As they come in. The only legitimate argument against this strategy would be to question the interest incurred. In the current environment, I'd imagine borrowing costs for the University would be limited, but at least that is a conversation worth having as opposed to this other nonsense the tabloids like to focus on.. Seems pretty clear to me - like someone building a house, the university is taking out a loan to build this building because at the present time they don't have all the money in the bank to pay as they go. Nothing misleading about that at all. As for my respect for the ANews, they are the only paper in town doing any investigative journalism, a skill that I'm sure is taught in our nationally ranked journalism school and valued by it's graduates and their employers. +1 And it's not likely that if funds come up short that the general public would ever know. Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,552 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/27/2016 11:32:05 PM  Alan Swank wrote: The Optimist wrote: Alan Swank wrote: Pretty strong statement from Vedder: Richard Vedder, distinguished professor of economics emeritus at OU, called the university’s initial claim that the facility construction would be almost entirely donor-funded an “out and out lie” in an interview Saturday. http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/trustees-ok-k-to-de... Vedder reminds me a lot of Trump. He is very good at making outlandish remarks that garner press coverage. Vedder's core beliefs are easy enough to understand, but half the stuff he says is speaking in extremes that I doubt he believes. He makes these remarks solely to pander to the media. I have mad respect for his skills in this area. He is very, very good. article wrote: The university will need to take out a loan internally to help fund construction, with the OU Athletics Department paying both interest and principal on the loan. More than half of OU’s Athletics Department’s budget in the 2014-2015 year – about $16.3 million – came from general fees that all OU students pay. Money pledged by donors, as it’s deposited in the university’s coffers, can be used to help pay off the loan. This is an incredibly poorly worded and misleading excerpt from that article which exemplifies why I do not share Alan's respect for the Athens News. This is tabloid level reporting. Pretty obvious from looking at the numbers the University is not "funding" the construction of this center with anything but donor funds. Where the University is using internal money is in the "financing" of construction. HUGE difference between the two. Where does the cash ultimately come from? Is the University liquid enough to handle this financing deal the next year? My guess is yes. The "principal" of the loan is clearly covered by donations... As they come in. The only legitimate argument against this strategy would be to question the interest incurred. In the current environment, I'd imagine borrowing costs for the University would be limited, but at least that is a conversation worth having as opposed to this other nonsense the tabloids like to focus on.. Seems pretty clear to me - like someone building a house, the university is taking out a loan to build this building because at the present time they don't have all the money in the bank to pay as they go. Nothing misleading about that at all. As for my respect for the ANews, they are the only paper in town doing any investigative journalism, a skill that I'm sure is taught in our nationally ranked journalism school and valued by it's graduates and their employers. I respect “investigative” journalism. I quickly began to grow tiresome of the journalism field when “investigative” leaves the picture and journalism becomes a soapbox for individuals to act like they know what they are talking about. I’m not quite sure where you are failing to differentiate between unfunded borrowing (example: ten s of trillions in US federal debt where source has not been secured) and funded borrowing (example: 6 million in pledges from Ohio University Alumni) I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top Jeff McKinney Moderator Member Since: 11/12/2004 Post Count: 6,042 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/28/2016 6:13:00 PM  I was reading over the posted comments on the Athens News site's most recent article on how the Trustees have handled this. So many of the comments were viciously anti athletics and betrayed a lack of understanding of this whole issue re funding, etc. Typical knee jerk posts you see all the time on media sites, facebook, etc, with a "don't confuse me with the facts" attitude. I like social media, but I'm not sure it's actually making a positive contribution to public discourse. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/28/2016 7:04:53 PM  Jeff McKinney wrote: . . . I like social media, but I'm not sure it's actually making a positive contribution to public discourse. +1 Yes, you can get on any political site -- right or left or something else -- and see the vitriol that spews forth. It is really disgusting. The worst I've seen, and I've seen this several times recently, is people calling for the assassination of the presidential candidates on the other side. The secret service certainly has its work cut out for it. I pray we get through this political season with a minimum of mayhem and violence. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Gallia Cat General User Member Since: 7/11/2010 Post Count: 938 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/28/2016 8:34:11 PM  The Athens News is anything but fair and balanced in their coverage of athletics. They have an obvious agenda and try to mascarade it as objective unbiased investigative journalism. There's a reason it's free. I personally have never had much use for the rag. Last Edited: 6/28/2016 8:35:44 PM by Gallia Cat Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/28/2016 10:09:35 PM  I get that some of you don't like the content of the article, but I don't see why that makes it bad journalism. It accurately conveys strong opposition from faculty and grad students. I do think the reporter should have quoted someone from the athletic department, but that's the only fault I see in the article. And they made the university's position and logic in building the place quite clear in the beginning of the story, so a quote or two from the "pro" side would really only restate that. Presenting accurate numbers and quoting leaders of groups opposing something in an article about those groups opposing that thing is not bad journalism. It's simple reporting. Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,552 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 6/29/2016 9:07:05 AM  Recovering Journalist wrote: I get that some of you don't like the content of the article, but I don't see why that makes it bad journalism. It accurately conveys strong opposition from faculty and grad students. I do think the reporter should have quoted someone from the athletic department, but that's the only fault I see in the article. And they made the university's position and logic in building the place quite clear in the beginning of the story, so a quote or two from the "pro" side would really only restate that. Presenting accurate numbers and quoting leaders of groups opposing something in an article about those groups opposing that thing is not bad journalism. It's simple reporting. I've got no problem with them conveying opposition to the project. My objections are with the accuracy of their claims of where funding for this project is coming from. There is a very large difference between the University providing funding and the University taking out a loan that will be repaid with contributions from donors that were designated towards this project. Again, if you want to have a real debate about this method, discuss the interest the University will pay on this loan. That'd be a reasonable issue for a journalist to raise. I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,502 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 9/15/2016 9:21:29 AM  Didn't know whether to post this here,or start a new topic. There's a "news" article in today's (9/15) The Post about the Sook Center. I thought "news" articles were supposed to be "objective". To me,this article missed the mark. Why ? : 1.Unless I missed it,the article never mentions that there is currently an Athletic Academic Center that the Sook Center will replace. 2.The article quotes several students who are not in favor of the facility. It appears,based on their responses,that they were not told that there is an existing Athletic Academic Facility or that it is being paid for with donations made specifically for that purpose. 3.The article doesn't include any quotes from student athletes. Whether in print or on line ,same old Post. Back to Top cbus cat fan General User Member Since: 12/2/2011 Post Count: 1,169 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 9/15/2016 4:50:21 PM  A couple of thoughts: First off having been a grad asst. at our esteemed university and knowing the faulty mindset, college sports is always going to be a hard sell. College faculties in general feel exploited, complaining they barely make more than upper echelon high school teachers. Though I know of no high school teachers who get year long sabbaticals and teach no classes--doing only research as some professors do. I am sure most employed Americans would love to have a professor's salary and time off. Also for those bringing in Donald Trump. Keep in mind most college faculty members have more in common with Bernie Sanders or the Green Party Candidate Jill Stein, let alone Hillary Clinton. If Trump gets more than 9% of the Ohio faculty vote, and or Jill Stein doesn't quadruple Trump's vote, I will be shocked. Though I am quite sure Trump will win the maintenance employee's vote. Now you know why William F Buckley said he would rather be governed by the first 1,000 names in the Boston phone book than by the Harvard faculty! Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 9/15/2016 8:55:12 PM  Professor is one of the most prestigious occupations which counts for something beyond the money earned. Teachers don't get any respect. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Toast General User Member Since: 3/11/2015 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 178 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 9/15/2016 9:45:37 PM  especially in faculty members own minds.., Uncle Wes wrote: Professor is one of the most prestigious occupations which counts for some Ohio University-the original OU Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,502 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 9/16/2016 6:59:02 AM  rpbobcat wrote: Didn't know whether to post this here,or start a new topic. There's a "news" article in today's (9/15) The Post about the Sook Center. I thought "news" articles were supposed to be "objective". To me,this article missed the mark. Why ? : 1.Unless I missed it,the article never mentions that there is currently an Athletic Academic Center that the Sook Center will replace. 2.The article quotes several students who are not in favor of the facility. It appears,based on their responses,that they were not told that there is an existing Athletic Academic Facility or that it is being paid for with donations made specifically for that purpose. 3.The article doesn't include any quotes from student athletes. Whether in print or on line ,same old Post. Just wanted to post a quick follow up. After reading the article about the Sook Center,I sent an email to The Post's Editor. Got a nice email back. Today they "reprinted" the article and included the fact that there was an existing Athletic Center and a comment from a student athlete. Back to Top oldkatz General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Post Count: 1,421 Status: Offline     RE: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction    Posted: 9/16/2016 9:22:59 AM  Toast wrote: especially in faculty members own minds.., Uncle Wes wrote: Professor is one of the most prestigious occupations which counts for some Painfully true. "All my inside sources tell me I have no inside sources." Salvatore "money bucks" Mafiosiano. 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