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Topic: RE: The Solich Question

Topic: RE: The Solich Question

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D.A.
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/16/2015 3:12:41 PM

allen wrote:

We can be a Boise, ...

I've heard a lot about the meth problem in Ohio, but hadn't realized its effects could lead to these types of delusions. Make a trip to Boise then get back to me and let me know how close you feel we are/could be. I went to Boise for the FIPB, and friend, we will NEVER reach that level of support of intercollegiate athletics. NEVER. We are what we are, and we can be better than we are today, but we will never be a Boise. They are the de facto flagship for the state of Idaho. Our total budget is $27MM for all sports, and Boise creates 25% more revenue than we actually spend on all sports. How exactly will OHIO ever reach those levels of support as a program?

Boise's 2014 revenues/subsidies:

Total subsidies $11,799,384
Institutional subsidies $5,867,480
Student fees $3,416,104
Direct state gov support $2,515,800

Earned Revenue $33,906,952
NCAA distributions $4,763,331
Royalties $4,677,490
Ticket sales $8,427,884
Other revenue $16,038,247
Total athletic funding $45,706,336

Last Edited: 11/16/2015 3:13:32 PM by D.A.

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And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

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bshot44
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/16/2015 3:31:38 PM

We'll never truly be a Boise while in the MAC. I think the point of that comment is that we can theoretically be a Boise when it comes to being nationally relevant.

Boise is part of the MWC....a solid league with much bigger TV deals/exposure.

While it took Boise decades to get to where they are today...I think if we can aspire to what NIU is doing (in our league, mind you)...that would be a realistic goal.

NIU is regularly a top 50 program and if their schedule breaks right, they typically get national recognition/votes in the polls, etc.

We have better facilities, bigger fan base, pay more in salary and have a lot going our way that NIU doesn't (but they have managed to overcome)

NIU has been the class of the MAC in football for some time.....and there's no reason why we couldn't be right there with them.

That would be my goal for Ohio football. Perennial MAC east contender...play for MACC every other year (if not every year).

I think we have the pieces in place to succeed.......except the coaching right now. I know...beating a dead horse....but the on-the-field product these last four years is hard to ignore.

Bcat2
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/16/2015 4:25:30 PM

bshot44 wrote:

Agreed. NIU is the MAC Gold Standard. I just can't forget the 2014 NIU game. The box score would suggest Ohio is not so far back. Please review below. Ohio gave NIU a much better game than Bowling Green.

***********************NIU/Ohio
FIRST DOWNS................... 19 24
RUSHES-YARDS (NET)............ 41-141 39-203
PASSING YDS (NET)............. 184 141
Passes Att-Comp-Int........... 24-16-0 28-19-1
TOTAL OFFENSE PLAYS-YARDS..... 65-325 67-344
Fumble Returns-Yards.......... 0-0 0-0
Punt Returns-Yards............ 1-0 2-23
Kickoff Returns-Yards......... 3-45 4-68
Interception Returns-Yards.... 1-7 0-0
Punts (Number-Avg)............ 6-42.8 3-35.0
Fumbles-Lost.................. 2-1 3-1
Penalties-Yards............... 6-85 4-30
Possession Time............... 26:32 33:28
Third-Down Conversions........ 6 of 13 7 of 14
Fourth-Down Conversions....... 0 of 0 1 of 2
Red-Zone Scores-Chances....... 2-2 2-2
Sacks By: Number-Yards........ 1-10 1-2

Last Edited: 11/16/2015 4:27:48 PM by Bcat2

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bshot44
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/16/2015 4:42:29 PM

Totally agree on that game. Were driving for game-tying TD late...but a fumble derailed the drive with about 2 mins to go.

Was quietly the best game we played last year.....

Wish we put that kind of game together more often. Shouldn't be a rare occurrence.

Only time in last four years we've been competitive with a team that finished above .500 in the MAC

Last Edited: 11/16/2015 4:44:04 PM by bshot44

L.C.
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/16/2015 5:07:21 PM

bshot44 wrote:

Sorry...bad comparison. Miami was not competing for MACC five years ago like Ohio was (2006, 2009, 2011 in a six-year span).

....

I have always believed that when there is a failure to communicate, the blame belongs on the person trying to do the communicating. In this case, that is me, so I take complete responsibility, and I will try again.

My point with regard to Miami has nothing to do with MACC, or with absolute levels of performance. The point was much simpler, that there is a significant lag between a recruiting class and the impact that that class has, whether good or bad. In the case of Miami, Martin has had two very good classes, but it would not be reasonable to expect those classes to impact performance on the field yet, and they haven't.

There are lots of different abilities that coaches need to have in order to succeed. One of these is recruiting. Another is ability to coach players up. Still another is ability to recognize talent. Another is the ability to come up with a game plan. Another is game management. Others include the ability to hire and keep together a staff and the ability to motivate players

Solich has always been excellent at all of these but one, and that is why he got better results than Knorr with the same players. Recruiting was his downfall at Nebraska. The weak recruiting classes in his first few years led to the dip in 2001. Even though the recruiting in his last few years at Nebraska was better, the AD wanted to make his mark on Nebraska football (and he did).

Recruiting also created the problems we see here, but, as you would expect, there was a several year lag between the problem and the symptoms. I believe that the problem has been solved, and that the 2013-5 recruiting classes were much better. How do you think that the recruiting classes of 2013-5 compare to the classes of 2010 and 2011? How do you think they compare to the classes from 2007-8?

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

bshot44
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/16/2015 5:25:39 PM

While I agree (obviously) that recruiting well does have a big role in winning. I'm also in the camp with Bob Knight when it comes to recruits. Each year during signing day, he'd be ask about his recruiting class and he'd say "Ask me in four years and I'll tell you how good they are."

I hate analyzing a class before it sets foot on the field or in the middle of their time at the school.

On paper, things can look good...but the way it plays out is totally different sometimes.

AJ Ouellette is a preferred walk-on...and he might be our best RB these next couple year. Who knows?

We've had a lot of recruits over the years that come in with a lot of hoopla only to fizzle out and do nothing.

Yes...on paper, it appears Frank has recruited better. But if the results on the field don't get better, does it really matter?

I think that goes back to your excellent points on the facets of coaching success. Same goes for Chuck Martin. If you can't coach your "great" recruits, does it really matter?

I just don't know when enough becomes enough with Frank and this current staff? How long can we continue to fall behind the top of this league before we decide that's enough...time for a change.

But if Ohio is content with being the 7th/8th best team in the MAC and go 7-5, 8-4 and play in the Cameillia Bowl each year.....OK. Just let us know. I'll temper my expectations and enjoy the ride each year.

But if we're in the business to win MAC championships....the road we're on right now won't ever get us there in my opinion.

Last Edited: 11/16/2015 5:26:33 PM by bshot44

allen
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/16/2015 7:49:05 PM

There is not a meth problem on this board, just a mediocrity and at least we did not lose 9 games problem here.
I've heard a lot about the meth problem in Ohio, but hadn't realized its effects could lead to these types of delusions. Make a trip to Boise then get back to me and let me know how close you feel we are/could be. I went to Boise for the FIPB, and friend, we will NEVER reach that level of support of intercollegiate athletics. NEVER. We are what we are, and we can be better than we are today, but we will never be a Boise. They are the de facto flagship for the state of Idaho. Our total budget is $27MM for all sports, and Boise creates 25% more revenue than we actually spend on all sports. How exactly will OHIO ever reach those levels of support as a program?

Boise's 2014 revenues/subsidies:

Total subsidies $11,799,384
Institutional subsidies $5,867,480
Student fees $3,416,104
Direct state gov support $2,515,800

Earned Revenue $33,906,952
NCAA distributions $4,763,331
Royalties $4,677,490
Ticket sales $8,427,884
Other revenue $16,038,247
Total athletic funding $45,706,336

That's what happens when you win. If we went to two BCS Bowls we would be in the Big 10 or Big East and our revenues would be similar. You tried to trick the fans here, but you only tricked yourself. Mr. Mediocrity. Mr. Solich ball handler. When they go to a BCS bowl they get 13 million. Boise is not a better school than Ohio, they just built a great program, living in Boise sucks. They used there name and exposure and now they get top Juco players, because they know they will play, contend for championships and possibly go to the next level. We have a 29K student enrollment and they have 22K.

Nobody was saying Sports Illustrated was on meth, it was sheer jubilation and Got Frank, pocket-protectors were flying in the air, now that we have regressed, people are on drugs for wanting to be a top 40 program. I wonder what your post were when that article came out.

This is mediocrity. We could never be Boise or Northern Illinois, they are just so much better than us. Woe is me. So what, we have great academics, great coeds, top party school and experience ratings we just can't do it. Please nobody say anything negative when we lose by 40 points, we lost by 50 before. Lets just be conservative and respectful. You are the problem, you have no hope, no spirit, no manhood, just a pocket-protector and beanie babies. Just a sure fire Mr. Clump.

Last Edited: 11/17/2015 4:45:54 AM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

L.C.
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/16/2015 10:57:08 PM

bshot44 wrote:

I completely agree with this. It does take 3-5 years to really know how good a class is. Yet I have reasons to have confidence in the group of players who are Sophomores this year because we've seen a lot of them, and they have played well. Conspicuously absent from that group, however, is a QB, and for them to be truly great, they will need to find a QB. Will that be Krizancic? Maxwell? A JUCO transfer? I don't know, but I know the coaches will try to find one, so I'm less worried than most people here.

Other than QB, though, the group looks pretty solid, which is why I have confidence that the years ahead will continue to improve. These players will be Juniors next year (a couple might get medical redshirts):
RB: OUellette, Brown
TE: Morgan, Mangen
OL: Preuhs, Anderson, Lowery, McCray, Murdock, Wood
WR: Brunis, Walker, Cope, C. Brown, J. Brown

DT: Aloese, Porter
DE: Robbins, Smart
MLB: Poling
OLB: Moore, Daugherty
CB: C. Brunson
S: Nelson, Quallen

So far as I know, the only player on this list that hasn't played this year is Murdock, though C. Brown and J. Brown haven't accumulated any stats. Unlike the 2010-2011 recruiting classes, there is very little dead weight in this group, or in any year from 2013-2015.

Comparing this to the "bad" classes, here are the players that never played much from 2010-2011:
2010 - Atwell, Grady, Jones, Kozak, Morales, Snyder, Stefanski, Tarrent (and that isn't counting players that got hurt such as Dietz and M. Smith)
2011 - Bell, Bennett, Curtis, Hammonds, Price, Welter (plus players that got hurt Haser and Russell, and a player with off-the-field, Fisher)

Last Edited: 11/16/2015 10:58:45 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/17/2015 1:45:52 AM

Disagree. Solich is not-so-good in many facets: game planning (we're so predictable), reacting to game circumstances (we don't). That he can recognize talent--it would be stunning if he didn't.

Predict all you want about future years based on recent recruit classes--that entirely misses the lousy that we have been for nearly four years. I'll take reality over dreams as a basis for evaluation. (Aside: OCF, your ability to miss on political and football predictions yet to claim that I can't see is interesting.)

The running game got it going aginst BG. Really? We scored 24, right? The last 7 was a terrif run by Irons who we don't play enough. THat leaves 17. Uh, they scored 62. 62-17 is somewhat more relevant to program performance than 17 points against what's characterized as one of the MAC's lesser defenses.

But, hey, keep on preaching that we're on the right track. That's so clearly in line with the relevant facts.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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L.C.
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/17/2015 10:07:08 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

...(we're so predictable)...

This, I presume, is one of those things where I suspect you believe that if you repeat it enough, it becomes true? There are things I don't like at times about Ohio's playcalling, but it's at the opposite extreme. There are times when Ohio's playcalling is too random. Unpredictability simply for the sake of unpredictability is no virtue.

Sometimes when you find a weakness you should continue to exploit it until the defense over-reacts, trying to stop it. Who cares if it is predictable? Sometimes I see Ohio moving along in a drive, getting 4-5 yards in chunks on the ground, and then inexplicably they will do something random, and if it doesn't work, the drive stalls.

I don't give a whit if the offense is predictable; I only care if it is effective.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

D.A.
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/17/2015 10:10:05 AM

allen wrote:

You are the problem, you have no hope, no spirit...

Because I embrace reality does not make me negative, it makes me a pragmatist. And for anyone that believes that NIU and Boise are remotely in the same ball park simply based on NIU having participated in an Orange Bowl, you are just not bothering to do any research or accept any reality.

Now if you want to hold up NIU as a standard bearer based on their performance the last twelve years versus our's, I'll grant you that is a fair comparative and something for which we should strive. But using Boise's success as a benchmark, you are just not a rational person.

I'm easy to find. You'll find my name on donor walls all over the athletic campus. Check my donations to OHIO and get back to me on whether or not I am part of the problem.

allen
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/17/2015 7:32:30 PM

When Sports Illustrated took the time and money to describe us in their magazine as the Next Boise, I did not hear you or anybody say they were crazy or on meth, but when I or others here bring it up, we are on meth. I suspect this is because you feel disrespected and hurt by my comments. I am just telling the truth and I believe. You are fighting the truth with childish defense mechanisms, you donate, now believe and be relentless in your belief.

Last Edited: 11/17/2015 11:31:32 PM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/17/2015 10:29:05 PM

allen wrote:

When Sports Illustrated took the time and money to put us on their cover as the Next Boise, I did not here you or anybody say they were crazy or on meth, but when I or others here bring it up, we are on meth. I suspect this is because you feel disrespected and hurt by my comments. I am just telling the truth and I believe. You are fighting the truth with childish defense mechanisms, you donate, now believe and be relentless in your belief.

Ohio made the cover on that issue? I don't recall that. I don't think Ohio's been on the SI cover since Walter Luckett.

colobobcat66
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/17/2015 11:08:21 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

You may some points, but you are dead wrong on the first one about game planning, we are out scoring others by 90+ to 30+ in first quarter. That's game planning. Wrong on that one.

cc-cat
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/17/2015 11:53:32 PM

allen wrote:

It was a great piece focused on Solich and how he has turned a program around. Didn't hear you or anybody else say the article was crazy.

http://www.si.com/vault/2012/10/15/106243962/solichs-scho...

Paul Graham
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 12:56:50 AM

Here's how I'm feeling today...

This season is just really boring. Last week I forgot we were even playing and only figured it out when I checked my twitter and saw Arkley tweeting about the game. Tonight I nearly forgot again and didn't even complain much when my wife recommended that we go grocery shopping instead.

I think clearly I'm not the only one; as BA was mostly filled this week with political fighting and meta-arguments about the state of the program.

When nothing is at stake - other than a trip to an exhibition game in some exotic locale - then what is there to get excited about? It just kinda sucks that BG has wrapped up the East, and did so so convincingly.

Here's another thought...I wonder how much any of this matters to those in the AD office. I've noticed that they care so much about getting to a bowl game. Its a big deal for them. But why? Well, one theory is that they can use that as an opportunity to raise money for athletic department projects like the IPF and academic center.

I would also guess that most donors don't follow the team like we do. A winning record and a bowl appearance looks great on paper and provides Schaus and others with the opportunities they need to get more $$$.

And with more $$$ we get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better facilities to keep up with the rest of the conference, which will help us keep raising more $$$ so we can get better.....

Sorry, stuck in an infinity loop there!

Campus Flow
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 1:04:48 AM

D.A. wrote:

allen wrote:

We can be a Boise, ...

Ohio doesn't produce near the donations of Boise and hasn't had near the success. By 2001 Boise was a household name for its football program regularly on ESPN. Donations didn't follow. Attendance around 23,000 a game. It wasn't until 2008 when they were competing for a national championship that the donations ramped up. It's a recent development. A school has to be very, very good to make the transformation. That said, Ohio has an infrastructure problem to support larger football crowds. Parking, Stadium and hotels are inadequate. Ohio basketball doesn't have an infrastructure issue. The arena is plenty big at 13,000 and plenty of population to fill it up. allen is talking about Boise State type performance than revenue anyways. Boise is 7-3 at the moment and Ohio is 7-4. Boise is giving away $20 dollar tickets on senior day. In the new post season format both are nothing but good teams in G5 conferences. There is no WAC and the Mountain West is mid-major.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/college/mountain-wes...

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Campus Flow
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 1:45:32 AM

Paul Graham wrote:

Winning 7 games a year for a decade at the G5 level which Ohio exists is a solid accomplishment. Its a good MAC program. Only Northern Illinois has been as consistent and more successful. Frank's program lacks the upside because of the conservative offensive schemes. That's the issue. I don't believe in getting rid of the guy early but I also don't believe in giving him an extension. Ideal if he could rid off into the sunset with a MAC Championship and finish up with a contribution to the university. Then bring in a coach that can give the Cats more upside. The athletic department is milking everything they can from the number of MAC wins Solich has to the amount of time he's had the same OC/DC. A big purpose of the academic center is to create additional offices for the staff. It frees up office space in the Tower and the Convo. A unique issue to this athletic department so its not a keeping up with the conference mentality.

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allen
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 2:37:20 AM

It is not just Northern Illinois, we have been a 5-10 program in the MAC from 2012-present. The coaches have rebuilt the program, they just have not gotten us over the hump. We need to makes some adjustments before we become a 7-13 program in the MAC. We had some good to very good years between 2009-11. Solich does not need to go, but if he fails to make adjustments by next year, he should not be extended. We are no longer on the rise. We are no longer on the rise and this is the problem. These kids need to see success in the Big MACC games or else their psyche's will be affected.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Monroe Slavin
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 2:52:52 AM

We took care of bidness tonight. Good.

Colo66--A game is four quarters long. Must plan to adjust what we're doing if we consistently do well in the first quarter (first drive...as we have wonderfully consistently this year) but then have prolonged no-scoring stretches over rest of Q1 and Q2 and Q3.

colobobcat66
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 8:15:49 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

As I said, you are right about some things, being able to adjust is one of them.

allen
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 10:49:37 AM

Northern Illinois will try to stop our run game, so we have to prepare to open them up early with good play calling. We should be able to stop their offense, they are no where near as potent as BGSU. This game needs to be won mentally, we can not afford to play into their hands. Our DB's if healthy should be aggressive and we need to be prepared to stop the run early. Go Cats

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

bobcatsquared
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 11:49:08 AM

allen wrote:

^^For Ohio coaches reading BA.com.^^^^

allen
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 12:05:35 PM

What is this Revenge of the Nerds?

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

giacomo
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/18/2015 2:54:04 PM

We are 7-4 with a chance to go 8-4. Very successful season! Congrats guys!

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