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Topic: The Solich Question

Topic: The Solich Question

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BobcatPride
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Member Since: 3/14/2005
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The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 3:08:31 PM

Haven't been on in a while. I've been interested reading various people's opinions regarding the future of Frank Solich as the coach.

One of the thoughts I'm left with is this:

Some are of the opinion that the football team's record in recent years is not acceptable, but that the 2016 buyout of the Solich contract is too much for the athletic department to handle. That may be true. It's also pointed out that some other programs (MAC and elsewhere) are recruiting better overall players than Ohio, and that perhaps a coaching change can improve that situation. That also may be true.

So in the short term -
The team's success has decreased in recent years
A coaching change cannot take place at this time
A coaching change is needed to have a chance to recruit better

But, better recruiting often is helped greatly by ...
Stability in the coaching staff
Increasing success of the team

Doesn't leave this Bobcat fan with an optimistic outlook at all.

bshot44
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 3:41:49 PM

BobcatPride wrote:

But, better recruiting often is helped greatly by ...
Stability in the coaching staff
Increasing success of the team

Normally I'd say this helps....but look at WMU. PJ Fleck came in...inherited a dumpster fire...won just 1 game....and had a couple of the best recruiting classes in MAC history.

It's not always about stability/winning. Sometimes you can just have the right guy who can go out and get the job done.

Fleck has done that.

bobcatsquared
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 4:47:22 PM

Doesn't this lead to yet other questions? If Ohio retains Solich as coach, which it will, but does not extend his contract, what does this lame-duck scenario do to recruiting? Won't opposing coaches use this against Ohio when going after the same recruit?

Last Edited: 11/9/2015 4:47:56 PM by bobcatsquared

L.C.
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 4:56:48 PM

bshot44 wrote:

BobcatPride wrote:

But, better recruiting often is helped greatly by ...
Stability in the coaching staff
Increasing success of the team

WMU was hardly a dumpster fire. Under Cubit they had good teams, but couldn't manage to win the West. In his first year Fleck did make it into a dumpster fire, probably by making too many changes too fast. If he wins the West, Fleck will have done what Cubit could not do, but if he doesn't, he is kind of in the same place Cubit was, second or third in the West.

Last Edited: 11/9/2015 5:00:01 PM by L.C.

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bshot44
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 5:08:22 PM

Ok...maybe dumpster fire was a bit dramatic. You're right.

But WMU was hardly a program on solid ground.

Cubit got them to only 3 bowl games in 8 years (0-3)
4 winning records....51-47 overall.

So they were an average/below-average MAC team.

But my point is, Fleck came in a took a program that hasn't won as much as Ohio and has very little tradition of winning and pulled off two really, really good recruiting classes.

That was my point....that it can be done with the right guy.

perimeterpost
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 6:03:20 PM

Cubit was at WMU from '05-'12, during that time he was 5th in the MAC in wins, 4th in the MAC West. Not great, but not a awful.

63-42 NIU
59-44 OHIO
57-46 CMU
53-46 Toledo
51-47 WMU

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

OhioBobcat
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 6:49:17 PM

If there's one thing we have learned in the last decade under Solich, it is this: Ohio will never be bad, will always be decent or sometimes even good, and likely won't ever be great.

OhioCatFan
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 6:54:40 PM

bobcatsquared wrote:

I predict that if we win these next two home games and get to a bowl, his contract will be extended. Some on here won't like that. But, I think it's the reality. I also believe that Frank will right the ship and that we'll get back to the MACC within the next year or two. Frank didn't just suddenly become a bad coach. He's not senile, as some here have implied.

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BuddyLee
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 7:30:23 PM

I could see an extension because like some have said it hurts recruiting if you have a lame duck head coach. But I may have to insist on a change of coordinator(s) before I'd just hand out extensions across the board.

Last Edited: 11/9/2015 7:32:43 PM by BuddyLee

BillyTheCat
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 8:28:13 PM

So to play Devils advocate, if you continually extend the contract, you will buy it out at some point, which leads to the DA post of who's pony'ing up the cash?

That being said, Frank should name his own terms.

Last Edited: 11/9/2015 8:28:57 PM by BillyTheCat

MonroeClassmate
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/9/2015 8:43:25 PM

Solich can stay as long as he wants, that is if he gets rid of every coach on the offensive side.

BG--Look at the offense. We rush hard, their QB knew it and had a screen a draw or a dump off and a few went for very big yardage--see that at OHIO? The QB looks out and sees his number 4 with a freshman backed off the line defending--whatever the play may have been, the QB lazers one out to the guy and it is automatic 4-6 yards. Take what the defense gives you--make it easy. OHIO offense is in training wheel stage. Give the QB more latitude in play calling and change based on what he thinks he sees. Where are the delayed/designed QB runs up the gut and a nicely designed screen when the defense has its ears pinned back? Speed it up too.

OHIO makes everything seem so damn hard. There are rarely any easy plays other than the slants. BG on the other hand made some things look pretty simple.

The QB's and coaches need work. Ball handling skills--do they practice them? When was the last time you saw a defensive opponent faked out of his jock? When was the last time you were faked out in the stands watching a Bobcat play? I have seen very few really shifty running plays with great faking by the QB. Bates used to fake the shit out of the D's either as a decoy or actually appearing to tuck it and then stepping back and tossing it. A number of plays several years ago included the wideout throwing a pass. I realize this type of play may not be appropriate without first establishing the run--so maybe do not use it until then.

When was the last time the punter took off on 4th and long? No surprises from us. Western on two different punts when the score was close didn't rush from the left side, the punter could have strolled up the sideline with ease. Poor film work to not be able to pick that up. Hey Bonstetter, take off once before you graduate--better to beg forgiveness at a bad decision than to have OHIO keep losing; do it when it is the riskiest--see if you can do some one man team stuff. Hershey kept some drives alive!!

If Frank and staff were smart they would have been practicing for KENT the past two weeks and blew off game planning for BG, after all, low percentage of MAC east potential with what everyone knew about BG but BIG bowl game potential on the line tomorrow. Kent coming off an even shorter week than OHIO is the must win of the season. Showing their tough defense something entirely new with the quick turn around from Thursday, by the OHIO offense could be a turning point for the kids and the coaches and even fans. Have about 10 plays memorized by each player ready to go perhaps in formations never used before. Play 11 and everyone knows the first 8 to 12 plays and run them in high speed fashion. Don't even send the punter out if fourth and long, have Vick kick it with the same 10 guys to go make the tackle and block, the D would have to burn a time out or have too many on the field or not have a returner back for it. The fans will admire your creativity!

Get things moving and if something is working beat it till its dead--if the run is working than forget passing other than a slant until you play-action and go for a big gainer. Do not ease off the gas. Have two QB's with their own receivers and running back. On the next drive there will be fresh bodies to go hard at break neck speed while the prior unit catches their wind. Do a WildCat with Oulette taking the snap and optioning to another of OUr running backs. Since it is the same 11, Vick would be a flanker and comes back in motion--is he going to take a pitch and pass it, or does the WildCat keep it or pitch it to the trailer? Could that confuse a defense?

Or you could: run a play and then get up to the line clap your hands, then look over to the side and then look over the defense and than clap your hands and run a play just before or after the play clock strikes zero! Then bring in three new guys to let the defense make switches than clap your hands, look over to the side, point out something but don't try to take what the D gives you and run the play some dumb azz coach on the sideline calling plays that worked so well against Miami, is telling you to run and when the score is 21 to 10 in the fourth, well then KENT's D will tee-off on the QB just like we've seen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Sorry for the long post.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 4:15:52 AM

OhioBobcat wrote:

If there's one thing we have learned in the last decade under Solich, it is this: Ohio will never be bad, will always be decent or sometimes even good, and likely won't ever be great.

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 4:21:24 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

bobcatsquared wrote:

I like you OCF. But you have proven this year to not be such a good predicter.

I kinda doubt that we win the next two, am more doubtful about righting the ship next year if Solich is still here and staff intact...and there is no way that Solich gets extended.

We do agree that Frank didn't just suddenly become a bad coach.

Casper71
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 12:02:51 PM

If we win a couple he gets a short extension and protects the coaches. But retires sometime during the extended contract. I doubt FS makes OU pay any severances...

Paul Graham
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 2:42:15 PM

I'm sure the AD folks are just as horrified by the last three weeks as we are.

There will be no extension. If anything, Solich leaves at the end of this season in order to protect the program and his legacy. But most likely scenario is one more year of this.

Last Edited: 11/10/2015 2:42:47 PM by Paul Graham

D.A.
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 4:15:32 PM

MonroeClassmate wrote:

OHIO makes everything seem so damn hard. There are rarely any easy plays other than the slants. BG on the other hand made some things look pretty simple.

I have tried to remain as constructive as possible over the last couple of years, and I have to say on your point above, I would be in violent agreement. However I have a nuanced difference of opinion with our resident pet goods entrepreneur. He wants us to run hurry up as the solution to our offensive woes, whereas I want us to be decisive, not necessarily fast.

Point of emphasis: look at both BG and the New England Patriots. BG just runs fast regardless of the scenario. The Patriots can run either fast or deliberate.

However, they both contrast from OHIO's O in that they are both decisive, allowing the QB to make play calls and not always relying on the call to come in from the tower. Additionally, they are making their play calls very quickly, regardless of how much clock they are using prior to the snap, and seem to know exactly what they want to do in advance of getting to the line.

We always seem to be waiting for the call to come from the booth to the signal crew to the QB, and it gets in the way of the flow of the O. And in that delay, we are allowing the D to react, which limits our effectiveness.

Now we may not have the skill set in our QB's to rapid fire play calls and/or they cannot make their own reads, but in TT's heyday, he seemed to have been empowered to audible without the replacement call coming from the tower.

Not sure why it is the way it is now, but it drives me effing crazy, and we need a solution to our delay in decisiveness.

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And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

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OhioBobcat
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 4:55:55 PM

The thing is, it's not like Solich isn't or hasn't done a good job. He has. For those of us who went through the trying times before (and well before) and after the Grobe era, we remember just how bad, even downright pathetic, Ohio football actually was. In the last decade under Solich, things are light years better than they were not too long ago. That is why I am not discouraged by the current state of the program, because as a longtime follower of it, I couldn't even image things as good as they are now not that long ago. Now that doesn't mean they can't get better, they can. But things aren't bad (look at Ohio's somewhat recent past and you'll see what bad actually is), they're still good. Ohio is experiencing winning seasons and bowl games and there was a time not long ago when those seemed as far out of reach as winning a national championship. If you told me 15 years ago Ohio would be ranked in the Top-25 and playing in MAC Championship games I would have asked to take a hit off of whatever you were smoking. Which brings us to the issue with Frank. What do you do or ask of a man who has made you good and kept you good? These winning seasons and bowl appearances and wins are under his guidance, not in spite of him. And next year Ohio will be right in the mix for the MAC East (could even be the favorite), just as it is and has been for the better part of the last decade.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 6:09:41 PM

D.A.--The hurry up is one way to gain an advantage, especially when used as a change of pace (not used always). I totally agree that it's the decisiveness and ability to react to circumstances which are paramount.

I hate the 'well, we're no longer absolutely abysmal' standard. I expect us to be at the top of the MAC most years, certainly to beat MAC teams with overall winning records and not to be totally blown out by the top of the MAC. If we don't turn it around, we will be in a situation where a person's name becomes a verb.

OhioStunter
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 6:26:39 PM

OhioBobcat wrote:

Well, it comes down to an individual's definition of "a good job". With the rationale you provide above, that would be a good job in many people's minds.

But presented with stats like how his win totals have declined each of the past four years, how the last winning team in the MAC he beat was Temple four seasons ago, how his conference record is about .500 over the past four years, and how there are zero conference championships in his tenure, some would argue that it is not the definition of a good job.

I honestly can understand both POVs.

Casper71
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 11:19:30 PM

OhioBobcat I have sween the crappy years too. But, seriously you are happy being one of 80/123 going to a bowl game. This ain't 1970 when one MAC team went bowling. Other than the New Years bowls, most BOWLS ARE A JOKE NOW!

colobobcat66
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 11:21:42 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Don't go and don't watch then.

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 11:30:04 PM

The fact that we're talking about firing a coach who has been bowl eligible 7 straights years is a joke. Exspecially considering he has done an amazing job of minimizing off the field issues and has managed too advance our program facilities. What more do you want from a coach? A MACC? If so you are literally calling for a coach to be fired off a single game 3 point loss. If we had won that NIU game would we even be having this conversation??

OhioBobcat
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/10/2015 11:42:43 PM

I am very happy with where Ohio football came from and is now. Period.

Campus Flow
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/11/2015 12:39:53 AM

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

In the past never having won a bowl game was brought up. There is never any conversation about that anymore. If Frank won the MAC in 2011 it would make fans feel better about his 11 year tenure certainly. Going 4 years without beating a MAC team with a winning record is tough to ignore though.

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OhioCatFan
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RE: The Solich Question

Posted: 11/11/2015 12:59:32 AM

Uncle Wes wrote:

. . . Going 4 years without beating a MAC team with a winning record is tough to ignore though.

That'll end in two weeks against NIU. Frank is 2-0 when playing on my birthday, and I know he'll not want to disappoint me this year. Us 1944 guys stick together! ;-)

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