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Topic:  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"

Topic:  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 12:00:15 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


7. The best QB on the field today looked to me to be Conner Krizancic, the transfer from Minnesota who I don't believe will be eligible until 2016. This dude has a rifle for an arm and made some very difficult throws down the sidelines for big yardage.


Arkley says he was 2-4 with 10 yards passing. Something doesn't add up here :)


It sure doesn't. I saw one his passes go for at least 20 yards. Perhaps, it was ruled a non-catch for some reason, but it looked like a catch from my vantage point. The guy who caught it was right along the sidelines. I thought they moved the chains after the pass, but with some of the crazy rules they had in place it's hard to remember the sequences of some of the things. Any one else had memory of the pass that I'm talking about?


You call 20 yards "big yardage"?
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 4:04:54 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


7. The best QB on the field today looked to me to be Conner Krizancic, the transfer from Minnesota who I don't believe will be eligible until 2016. This dude has a rifle for an arm and made some very difficult throws down the sidelines for big yardage.


Arkley says he was 2-4 with 10 yards passing. Something doesn't add up here :)


It sure doesn't. I saw one his passes go for at least 20 yards. Perhaps, it was ruled a non-catch for some reason, but it looked like a catch from my vantage point. The guy who caught it was right along the sidelines. I thought they moved the chains after the pass, but with some of the crazy rules they had in place it's hard to remember the sequences of some of the things. Any one else had memory of the pass that I'm talking about?


You call 20 yards "big yardage"?


20 yds = 2 first downs. 20 yds on one play is big yardage to this old guy.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 5:00:04 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
You call 20 yards "big yardage"?

There seems to be some discrepancy over the definition of "Explosive plays". This website call them a run of 12 yards or more, or a pass of 20 yards or more:
http://www.nfltouchdown.com/explosive-plays-are-key-to-nf.../

This website says that an explosive play in a run of 15 yards or more, or a pass of 20 yards or more:
http://tinyurl.com/ojs7c4k

Still another website, Football Outsiders, considers an explosive play to be any run or pass of 20 yards or more.

All of them would agree that a 20 yards pass is an "explosive play".

Last Edited: 4/7/2015 5:08:31 PM by L.C.

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 7:05:19 PM 
I would say 30 yards is a big play. 12 yards is what you expect out of a perfectly executed regular play. There are some options every pass play 15-20 yards after the line of scrimmages.

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 7:10:45 PM 
Valley Cat wrote:
I drink my Kool-Aid green no question but I though Saturday the team looked really good. I saw a lot of good things and physically this team looks stronger and faster than I have seen in a while. Just a couple random thoughts.
LB's- really fast, get to the football and when they blitzed they got to the QB. Jovon Johson and Blair Brown seem to give you so much speed and ability to cover that I can't see as much reliance on the nickel as in the past.


I would be happy to get back to the LB play we had in 2011. Very, very close to a MAC title that year and beat Utah State on the Blue Turf.

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 7:12:09 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
I would say 30 yards is a big play. 12 yards is what you expect out of a perfectly executed regular play. There are some options every pass play 15-20 yards after the line of scrimmages.

The reason these websites used 12-20 yards is that they were looking for a factor that correlated well to winning to use alongside turnovers. Turnovers explain a lot of games, but they found that the number of "explosive plays" also correlated strongly. They found that there was a correlation between "preventing explosive plays by the other team" and winning, but that correlation was not as strong.

I have heard Solich talk about trying to get more explosive plays. Does anyone know that he considers an "explosive play" to be?

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 7:31:53 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
I would say 30 yards is a big play. 12 yards is what you expect out of a perfectly executed regular play. There are some options every pass play 15-20 yards after the line of scrimmages.

The reason these websites used 12-20 yards is that they were looking for a factor that correlated well to winning to use alongside turnovers. Turnovers explain a lot of games, but they found that the number of "explosive plays" also correlated strongly. They found that there was a correlation between "preventing explosive plays by the other team" and winning, but that correlation was not as strong.

I have heard Solich talk about trying to get more explosive plays. Does anyone know that he considers an "explosive play" to be?


The coaching staff put together a scoring system for the game and one of the ways the offense could score was an "explosive play" of 25 yards or more or a "big play" of 15-24 yards.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 8:44:42 PM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
[QUOTE=L.C.] . . . The coaching staff put together a scoring system for the game and one of the ways the offense could score was an "explosive play" of 25 yards or more or a "big play" of 15-24 yards.


OK, 20 yards is within the 15 to 24 yard "big play" category. I'll stand by my original statement! ;-)

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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 9:07:50 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Valley Cat wrote:
I drink my Kool-Aid green no question but I though Saturday the team looked really good. I saw a lot of good things and physically this team looks stronger and faster than I have seen in a while. Just a couple random thoughts.
LB's- really fast, get to the football and when they blitzed they got to the QB. Jovon Johson and Blair Brown seem to give you so much speed and ability to cover that I can't see as much reliance on the nickel as in the past.


I would be happy to get back to the LB play we had in 2011. Very, very close to a MAC title that year and beat Utah State on the Blue Turf.


If the 3 starters can stay on the field we will be scary at linebacker. I also liked what I saw of Collins and Grilliot and DiCillo....whose dad sat in front of me and was quite the cheerleader. That makes
6 and Daugherty and Moore looked decent last year.

I'm excited about the future of OUr linebackers.
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BEG
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/7/2015 9:14:19 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


7. The best QB on the field today looked to me to be Conner Krizancic, the transfer from Minnesota who I don't believe will be eligible until 2016. This dude has a rifle for an arm and made some very difficult throws down the sidelines for big yardage.


Arkley says he was 2-4 with 10 yards passing. Something doesn't add up here :)


It sure doesn't. I saw one his passes go for at least 20 yards. Perhaps, it was ruled a non-catch for some reason, but it looked like a catch from my vantage point. The guy who caught it was right along the sidelines. I thought they moved the chains after the pass, but with some of the crazy rules they had in place it's hard to remember the sequences of some of the things. Any one else had memory of the pass that I'm talking about?


You call 20 yards "big yardage"?


20 yds = 2 first downs. 20 yds on one play is big yardage to this old guy.


There is a difference between a 20 yard pass and a 20 yard completion. Going 2-4 with 10 yards passing leaves no room for the above mentioned "explosive" pass play. Moot point.
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Paul Graham
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/8/2015 4:00:09 AM 
Doc Bobcat wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Valley Cat wrote:
I drink my Kool-Aid green no question but I though Saturday the team looked really good. I saw a lot of good things and physically this team looks stronger and faster than I have seen in a while. Just a couple random thoughts.
LB's- really fast, get to the football and when they blitzed they got to the QB. Jovon Johson and Blair Brown seem to give you so much speed and ability to cover that I can't see as much reliance on the nickel as in the past.


I would be happy to get back to the LB play we had in 2011. Very, very close to a MAC title that year and beat Utah State on the Blue Turf.


If the 3 starters can stay on the field we will be scary at linebacker. I also liked what I saw of Collins and Grilliot and DiCillo....whose dad sat in front of me and was quite the cheerleader. That makes
6 and Daugherty and Moore looked decent last year.

I'm excited about the future of OUr linebackers.


I'm excited about our STARTING linebackers. The rag-tag collection of walk-ons behind them makes me nervous. Its a big drop off from Jovon Johnson to anyone else that is not Brown or Poling.

Just the humble opinion of a respected Bobcat expert and Internet message board hero!
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/8/2015 7:04:53 AM 
BEG wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


7. The best QB on the field today looked to me to be Conner Krizancic, the transfer from Minnesota who I don't believe will be eligible until 2016. This dude has a rifle for an arm and made some very difficult throws down the sidelines for big yardage.


Arkley says he was 2-4 with 10 yards passing. Something doesn't add up here :)


It sure doesn't. I saw one his passes go for at least 20 yards. Perhaps, it was ruled a non-catch for some reason, but it looked like a catch from my vantage point. The guy who caught it was right along the sidelines. I thought they moved the chains after the pass, but with some of the crazy rules they had in place it's hard to remember the sequences of some of the things. Any one else had memory of the pass that I'm talking about?


You call 20 yards "big yardage"?


20 yds = 2 first downs. 20 yds on one play is big yardage to this old guy.


There is a difference between a 20 yard pass and a 20 yard completion. Going 2-4 with 10 yards passing leaves no room for the above mentioned "explosive" pass play. Moot point.


OhioCatFan was noting Krizancic's ability. Evidently based on his observation the throw was very good to exceptional. That is what we need from the QB. We should not discount Krizancic's effort because a receiver dropped it or even if a DB made an extraordinary play.

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/8/2015 9:07:56 AM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
My biggest gripe with the current staff is their inability to draw up a scheme to get guys like Daz the ball in space. Going back to 2013, I expected Daz to get the ball in space via screens and sweeps while lining up in the slot. That never happened.
I still feel that is the best use for Daz and I think the same goes for Papi White.
Feature Maleek and AJ in the backfield and line up Daz and White in the slot.


While I'm often one of the first to jump on Albin for putting together a boring and predictable gameplan, I don't think that's totally fair to the staff. Daz was given lots of chances early last year and we were met with drops and fumbles. Not singling him out because it was an epidemic last season. We know he can be an electric player in the open field, but there has to be trust to fully open up the playbook, between a coach and his players and between a QB and his RBs and receivers. if you ultimately believe that drops and fumbles also come back to the coaching then I would say it's fair to call them out there. I hope that will subside with more experience across the board this season.

Edit: I expect that Daz will get the ball plenty and have plenty of chances to prove his worth.


I'm not saying that my critic there is the only cause for our struggles, or even one of the major causes. That is just one factor and really one of the few critics I have on this coaching staff. Additionally, my comment was aimed at two seasons ago as much as last season.
I don't think fumbles or drops are the fault of the coaching staff which is exactly why I haven't called them out like many have on this board. In fact, I think I'm one of the bigger defenders (certainly not in the Top 5, more like top 25%) of this staff. I think they are doing a good job building this program to levels we haven't seen before and I can live with a down year when the overall trend is UP. Especially when that down year comes with an inexperienced team. That happens with any program. No matter how well you manage player-personnel, when you have guys limited to a 4 year season span for playing you are going to have some years worse than others. You can minimize that but never avoid it. And I think inexperience IS a big reason for drops and fumbles.

All that said, I'll stand by my critic. I think we could do a better job of getting our smaller backs the ball in space. Especially in the Pistol... It was built for a jet-sweep.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/8/2015 9:33:40 AM 
I noted several comments that the offense now includes more wide receiver screens, including some in the middle of the field, not just the bubble screens. I'm thinking Walker here, but it sounds like an effort to get those types of player the ball in the open field.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/8/2015 9:51:32 AM 
L.C. wrote:
I noted several comments that the offense now includes more wide receiver screens, including some in the middle of the field, not just the bubble screens. I'm thinking Walker here, but it sounds like an effort to get those types of player the ball in the open field.


That is very exciting to hear. I do think that as you have a more experienced team you are able to throw in more variations like this.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: BIG BACKS
   Posted: 4/8/2015 10:08:45 AM 
Cats2014 wrote:
I just get tired of getting stuffed in the backfield when we give it to guys who are 5'7 or smaller. The teams that dominated us last year were the teams with big backs and big receivers. It's that simple.


All the long-winded theories and you nailed it in a few words.

Recently just one down year and a general uptrend--really?

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/8/2015 11:24:20 AM 
BEG wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


7. The best QB on the field today looked to me to be Conner Krizancic, the transfer from Minnesota who I don't believe will be eligible until 2016. This dude has a rifle for an arm and made some very difficult throws down the sidelines for big yardage.


Arkley says he was 2-4 with 10 yards passing. Something doesn't add up here :)


It sure doesn't. I saw one his passes go for at least 20 yards. Perhaps, it was ruled a non-catch for some reason, but it looked like a catch from my vantage point. The guy who caught it was right along the sidelines. I thought they moved the chains after the pass, but with some of the crazy rules they had in place it's hard to remember the sequences of some of the things. Any one else had memory of the pass that I'm talking about?


You call 20 yards "big yardage"?


20 yds = 2 first downs. 20 yds on one play is big yardage to this old guy.


There is a difference between a 20 yard pass and a 20 yard completion. Going 2-4 with 10 yards passing leaves no room for the above mentioned "explosive" pass play. Moot point.


Thank YOU!!!!
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: BIG BACKS
   Posted: 4/8/2015 12:44:57 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Recently just one down year and a general uptrend--really?


It amazes me how "short-term" your mindset is towards this program considering how long you have been a supporter.

We had extremely limited success in the 80's, 90' and early 00's. Since 2005, we've had more success than those years, combined.

Frank didn't assemble a good team or two. He assembled a program. You should have gotten all your hate out of the way 20 or 30 years ago. There weren't any MAC Championships then either... There also weren't many winning seasons, bowl appearances, NFL players or division titles. We're competing more consistently than we have since before you were a student. Are you really that blind?

Last Edited: 4/8/2015 12:46:36 PM by The Optimist

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: BIG BACKS
   Posted: 4/8/2015 4:51:11 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Recently just one down year and a general uptrend--really?

There is a direct parallel between 2013-2014 and 2007-2008. The recruits from 2002-2003 powered the team to success in 2006, and then left, leaving a rebuilding time. The recruits from 2008-2009 powered the team to success from 2011-12, and then left a rebuilding time. During the first valley (2007-2008) the team was a combined 10-14 (.417). During the second valley, 2013-4, the team was a combined 13-12 (.520). Was this improvement because of playing more easy teams? Splitting it by winning record/not winning record, 2007-8 was 1-4 against teams with winning records, and 9-9 against teams without winning records. The 2013-14 teams were 2-8 against teams with winning records, and 11-4 against teams without a winning record.

When I look at data and try to determine if there is an uptrend, I usually connect the valleys and see if the direction is pointed up or down. If I connect .417 to .520 6 years later, I get a general uptrend. It is also true that the last peak (2009-2012) was both higher and broader than the peak before (2006), another indicator of an uptrend. Will the next peak (2015-2018) be higher than the last peak (2009-2012)? Since I believe that the uptrend continues to be true, I certainly expect that.

BEG wrote:
There is a difference between a 20 yard pass and a 20 yard completion. Going 2-4 with 10 yards passing leaves no room for the above mentioned "explosive" pass play. Moot point.

Yes, OCF already acknowledged that he must have been mistaken about whether the pass was complete or not. I do agree with you that Billy's point about whether 20 yards was a big play or not was moot, but it was interesting to learn that, while you hear lots of people talking about "explosive plays", there is no consensus about exactly what constitutes an "explosive play".

By the way, one of the things I love about this board is the use of language. Moot is a word that I think is misused more often than it is used correctly, and in this case, it applies perfectly, since Billy's question, whether a 20 yard pass was a "big play", was in this case simply an abstract question that does not arise from existing facts.

Last Edited: 4/8/2015 5:09:25 PM by L.C.

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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/8/2015 7:46:57 PM 
L.C. wrote:
I noted several comments that the offense now includes more wide receiver screens, including some in the middle of the field, not just the bubble screens. I'm thinking Walker here, but it sounds like an effort to get those types of player the ball in the open field.


Solich noted after the game that one of the things that please him the most about this offense this spring was how much more success they had running screen plays, and that was evident in the spring game. There was some variety to them, including one in the middle of the field to tight end Mason Morgan that went for good yards. Morgan also had a nice catch up field for a third-down conversion. I think that will be big if we have tight ends who can contribute.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/8/2015 8:11:31 PM 
Thanks. I think Morgan and Mangen will both be very good tight ends, and hopefully Boland will be as well. Tight end is a position where its tough on Freshmen. Another year for them will make a big difference. The other thing that will make them a lot more visible part of the offense is the improvement in the offensive line. When the running game is working, those play action passes to the TE start becoming very effective.

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/9/2015 2:11:17 AM 
Has any team in college ball run screens effectively lately? I'm not sure that's a thing for us to depend on. Lots of guys trained to run to/defend the pass.

Optimist--why are you yelling at me when you stated a one-year down trend and recent uptrend. Sorry; but it's pretty much a fact that the last 2.5 years have not been that. Facts is facts.

Given recent play, I'm dubious about the prospects for marked TE play, at least pass reception-wise. No speed there, very little productivity since Jordan Thompson.

Win a MACC and all is forgiven. Until we do, we aren't rebuilding, 'cause we ain't yet built. MAC is arguably the weakest conference, typically with 3-5 horrible teams. Means that all ya got is to win a handful of key games. Not too much to expect once in ten years.

Wooden was there about 10 years before he ripped off a whole slew of NCAA titles. Anyone who thinks we're in the same circumstances....

Last Edited: 4/9/2015 2:14:50 AM by Monroe Slavin

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BuddyLee
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/9/2015 7:17:00 PM 
Got to agree with Monroe here. We've had great success and more fun compared to the utter crap of the Knorr era, but not compared to the best Mac programs, which is where I would have expected us to be by this point in the Solich tenure. Still need at least one MACC to cement his legacy here.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/9/2015 8:45:22 PM 
BuddyLee wrote:
Got to agree with Monroe here. We've had great success and more fun compared to the utter crap of the Knorr era, but not compared to the best Mac programs, which is where I would have expected us to be by this point in the Solich tenure. Still need at least one MACC to cement his legacy here.


Soo at this point anything but a MACC is failure? Such expectations must lead to a lot of disappointment.

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Observations from the Spring "Game"
   Posted: 4/9/2015 10:35:31 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Has any team in college ball run screens effectively lately? I'm not sure that's a thing for us to depend on. Lots of guys trained to run to/defend the pass.

Optimist--why are you yelling at me when you stated a one-year down trend and recent uptrend. Sorry; but it's pretty much a fact that the last 2.5 years have not been that. Facts is facts.

Given recent play, I'm dubious about the prospects for marked TE play, at least pass reception-wise. No speed there, very little productivity since Jordan Thompson.

Win a MACC and all is forgiven. Until we do, we aren't rebuilding, 'cause we ain't yet built. MAC is arguably the weakest conference, typically with 3-5 horrible teams. Means that all ya got is to win a handful of key games. Not too much to expect once in ten years.

Wooden was there about 10 years before he ripped off a whole slew of NCAA titles. Anyone who thinks we're in the same circumstances....


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2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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