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Topic:  OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics

Topic:  OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
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brucecuth
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  Message Not Read  OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/20/2015 8:21:15 AM 
http://www.ohio.com/news/local/kent-state-university-hire...
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/20/2015 8:58:11 AM 
At this point I'm not really sure why this is considered "news" anymore. You can almost bet that every small school is doing something along the lines of evaluating their athletic programs.
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MedinaCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/20/2015 12:18:25 PM 
I am wondering if the MAC has any contingency plans in place for when certain schools opt to go FCS. And crossing your fingers, hoping and praying do not constitute a contingency plan.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/20/2015 12:25:28 PM 
"[Todd] Turner said the federal government might have to step in 'to bring some sanity to the landscape.'” Hmm . . . wonder what he means by this.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/20/2015 12:27:53 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
"[Todd] Turner said the federal government might have to step in 'to bring some sanity to the landscape.'” Hmm . . . wonder what he means by this.


The federal government bringing sanity to anything??

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/20/2015 12:31:41 PM 
"Athletes also often don’t get to take in the full college experience because of sports commitments, he added."

For one thing, the football players don't get to see the halftime show.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/20/2015 1:01:44 PM 
I believe that Ohio University did this around 10 years ago, the result was shedding of three sports.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/20/2015 2:25:19 PM 
I assume this is just giving air cover to an eventual elimination of sports such as gymnastics, etc. that other MAC schools don't support.

Or...KSU is getting smart and considering becoming the first MAC program to de-escalate in the D-1 war? The whole league needs to consider taking a stand against today's BS. Become the league that is serious about doing college sports the right way. There's equity in that.





Last Edited: 1/20/2015 2:27:46 PM by SBH
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/20/2015 3:07:37 PM 
SBH wrote:
I assume this is just giving air cover to an eventual elimination of sports such as gymnastics, etc. that other MAC schools don't support.

Or...KSU is getting smart and considering becoming the first MAC program to de-escalate in the D-1 war? The whole league needs to consider taking a stand against today's BS. Become the league that is serious about doing college sports the right way. There's equity in that.







I would say the former is correct, cuts seem to come after these "consultations".
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davepi2
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 7:14:11 AM 
Does not the NCAA have a rule that a university has to have a certain number of varsity sports in order to be classified d1(FBS)? I thought at one time I had heard 14 but I can't find any info on that right now. Kent State only has 16 varsity sports(7 men, 9 women) so they don't have a lot to cut if the above question is correct. What would they cut as well? With Title 9 the cut would almost have to be in men's sports. Cutting track and field or cross country is not going to add much to helping the budget. Wrestling has always been a popular whipping boy for cuts but it is also probably their most successful sport. Baseball is another success story that would be hard to see being cut. A drop to FCS may very well be in the cards for KSU.

Last Edited: 1/21/2015 7:26:00 AM by davepi2
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davepi2
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 7:30:03 AM 
Well it looks like 14 is the required number unless Wiki is wrong(wouldn't be a first). There must be 7 men and 7 women or 6 and 8. At least two of those sports must have teams for both genders. Kent could possibly cut a two team sport like cross country and still fit in the guidelines but not by much. Also once again that would not benefit the athletic budget that much. However cutting one sport each such as wrestling for men, and gymnastics for women would be better for the balance sheet but would also be cutting two of the more popular sports at Kent.

Last Edited: 1/21/2015 7:36:07 AM by davepi2
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 8:43:09 AM 
davepi2 wrote:
Does not the NCAA have a rule that a university has to have a certain number of varsity sports in order to be classified d1(FBS)? I thought at one time I had heard 14 but I can't find any info on that right now. Kent State only has 16 varsity sports(7 men, 9 women) so they don't have a lot to cut if the above question is correct. What would they cut as well? With Title 9 the cut would almost have to be in men's sports. Cutting track and field or cross country is not going to add much to helping the budget. Wrestling has always been a popular whipping boy for cuts but it is also probably their most successful sport. Baseball is another success story that would be hard to see being cut. A drop to FCS may very well be in the cards for KSU.

In the numbers from another school that I posted in another thread, two of the biggest losers were cross-country for men and women, losing $3.3m combined. Kent probably doesn't spend that much on it, but I'm sure they can save $2-3m from cutting a couple sports.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 8:55:40 AM 
davepi2 wrote:
Kent State only has 16 varsity sports(7 men, 9 women) so they don't have a lot to cut if the above question is correct.


For those wondering, per Wiki, Ohio has 16, but more importantly 6 men's and 10 women's. Since we have to have at least 6 men's teams, and any cut in women's would have to be offset with cuts in men's scholarships per Title IX, I wouldn't think we would be cutting anything.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 11:28:01 AM 
You can do what OHIO did under Thomas Boeh and simply defund the sport by taking the scholarships, like he did with Men's swimming and for the most part Men's track and CC. That is where your money is.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 11:37:35 AM 
davepi2 wrote:
Well it looks like 14 is the required number unless Wiki is wrong(wouldn't be a first). There must be 7 men and 7 women or 6 and 8. At least two of those sports must have teams for both genders. Kent could possibly cut a two team sport like cross country and still fit in the guidelines but not by much. Also once again that would not benefit the athletic budget that much. However cutting one sport each such as wrestling for men, and gymnastics for women would be better for the balance sheet but would also be cutting two of the more popular sports at Kent.


I think Wiki is off on the 7/7 or 6/8 thing. The only thing that matters when comparing women and men is the number of scholarships (I think the NCAA actually defines it as equal number of opportunities), not actual number of teams. Also, your sports teams have to generally compare to your student population (ex. if the campus is 60% women/40% men, the athletic opportunities must be somewhat close to that). This is why you'll see a lot more women's programs then men's programs at some schools to offset the ridiculous number of scholarships for football.

Last Edited: 1/21/2015 11:39:05 AM by GoCats105
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 11:40:08 AM 
I see one of two things happening in the future for college football as it pertains to the MAC.

1) Some kind of anti-trust situation gets pushed such that the "Power 5" are forced to allow all conference champions into their little playoff, and thereby allowing some sort of more equal sharing of the giant TV ad dollars.

2) The MAC, and other conferences like it eventually give up the ghost and drop to FCS, where the dollars invested may not have to be as significant. Granted, I know absolutely zero about the way dropping could affect expenses, or the bottom line. Personally, I'd still go to home games often, because I'm there for the full game day experience more than just the game.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 12:09:17 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
...2) The MAC, and other conferences like it eventually give up the ghost and drop to FCS, where the dollars invested may not have to be as significant. Granted, I know absolutely zero about the way dropping could affect expenses, or the bottom line. Personally, I'd still go to home games often, because I'm there for the full game day experience more than just the game.

Typically FCS schools lose more on football than the lower FBS schools because they have similar costs, but less revenue. They also get less exposure on things like ESPN, so they get less "advertising benefit". That's why FCS schools are so eager to move up to FBS status.

Where you get costs savings is when you drop further than that, and start losing the scholarship expenses and traveling shorter distances.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 12:36:24 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
I see one of two things happening in the future for college football as it pertains to the MAC.

1) Some kind of anti-trust situation gets pushed such that the "Power 5" are forced to allow all conference champions into their little playoff, and thereby allowing some sort of more equal sharing of the giant TV ad dollars.

2) The MAC, and other conferences like it eventually give up the ghost and drop to FCS, where the dollars invested may not have to be as significant. Granted, I know absolutely zero about the way dropping could affect expenses, or the bottom line. Personally, I'd still go to home games often, because I'm there for the full game day experience more than just the game.


Here's the problem with anti-trust. It's a hollow threat. Just because some Utah politicians scream it when convenient or the Boise President keeps yelling it doesn't mean there's any substance.

Here's the reasoning. The G5 are voluntarily aligning themselves with the P5. Nobody is holding a gun to their head or coercing them to sign onto these agreements. Right now, the G5 are 100% free to break away, form their own playoffs, line up their own venues, get their own television deals etc. Now, if hypothetically, the P5 used their market sway to stymie the G5 with playoff venues and television contracts--say went to the networks and said, "if you do business with these schools, you'll lose access to us" that is collusion and antitrust. That--in the absence of such collusion--the G5 product wouldn't be worth anything to the networks is not antitrust. It's market economics dictating price. I'll also bet that the bean counters at many a G5 school have come to the conclusion that the G5 schools are better with what they're getting from their arrangement with the P5 than they would be breaking off on their own. Again, that's not some insidious antitrust scenario; it's market economics.

Now take into account that the US largely stopped enforcing the Sherman Anti-Trust Act in the 1980s, and it's a policy that's been upheld by both Democratic and Republican administrations, clinging to the antitrust is fool's gold for anyone thinking it will lead to some playoff access or equal revenue sharing.
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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 12:53:21 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
I see one of two things happening in the future for college football as it pertains to the MAC.

1) Some kind of anti-trust situation gets pushed such that the "Power 5" are forced to allow all conference champions into their little playoff, and thereby allowing some sort of more equal sharing of the giant TV ad dollars.

2) The MAC, and other conferences like it eventually give up the ghost and drop to FCS, where the dollars invested may not have to be as significant. Granted, I know absolutely zero about the way dropping could affect expenses, or the bottom line. Personally, I'd still go to home games often, because I'm there for the full game day experience more than just the game.

I think football and basketball are safe. It is the other sports that are at risk. Things like wrestling and baseball will go first (and the subsequent cuts to women's program to achieve Title IX balance). I think the NCAA dropped the ball on this a long time ago. Each school should be required to endow at least one scholarship per year out of their operating budget. I know it's a long-term fix but it may have saved some of the Olympic sports by limiting their exposure to skyrocketing scholarship costs.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 1/21/2015 10:10:24 PM 
Ted Thompson wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
I see one of two things happening in the future for college football as it pertains to the MAC.

1) Some kind of anti-trust situation gets pushed such that the "Power 5" are forced to allow all conference champions into their little playoff, and thereby allowing some sort of more equal sharing of the giant TV ad dollars.

2) The MAC, and other conferences like it eventually give up the ghost and drop to FCS, where the dollars invested may not have to be as significant. Granted, I know absolutely zero about the way dropping could affect expenses, or the bottom line. Personally, I'd still go to home games often, because I'm there for the full game day experience more than just the game.

I think football and basketball are safe. It is the other sports that are at risk. Things like wrestling and baseball will go first (and the subsequent cuts to women's program to achieve Title IX balance). I think the NCAA dropped the ball on this a long time ago. Each school should be required to endow at least one scholarship per year out of their operating budget. I know it's a long-term fix but it may have saved some of the Olympic sports by limiting their exposure to skyrocketing scholarship costs.


Wrestling can't go far, and baseball is only endanger on the East Coast and the Midwest. There are several southern schools that make more revenue on there baseball than they do on their basketball in ticket revenue. And if you've ever attended a college W'S, you know that's big $$$$
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MedinaCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 3/13/2015 12:36:48 PM 
The analysis is in...in a nutshell:
Your facilities blow.
Costs will continue to rise.
You need to secure new funding and drive donations.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/kent-state/kent-state-universi...

Note to self...get into the consulting biz.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 3/13/2015 1:42:08 PM 
They put several million into updates at Dix Stadium and did, I thought, a very nice job. If their consultant considers that stadium outdated, ours would be considered equivalent with some high school facilities.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 3/13/2015 2:59:42 PM 
If they merged with Ohio Polytechnic Institute and Guppy Ranch, they'd have a brand-new stadium. ;-)

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 3/13/2015 3:36:30 PM 
SBH wrote:
They put several million into updates at Dix Stadium and did, I thought, a very nice job. If their consultant considers that stadium outdated, ours would be considered equivalent with some high school facilities.



...which is exactly why we should be spending a cool 6 mil on a friggin' study hall in one of the endzones. Perfectly logical when our main facilities lack basic amenities, let alone the polish of several competing facilities.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Kent hirest consultant to evaluate athletics
   Posted: 3/13/2015 4:59:37 PM 
They've already raised 2/3 of the money for the education facility, so many appear to believe there's a need. We also will have a new scoreboard in Peden by 2017 season, per athletic department.


Last Edited: 3/13/2015 5:00:23 PM by SBH
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