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General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,067 Status: Offline     Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/17/2015 10:11:26 AM  One of the characteristics of Ohio under Solich has always been to not lose many games big. I thought I'd go back and look at how the various teams have done. Here is a list of games where Ohio lost by more than 25: 2005 - #4 Virginia Tech 45 (11-2), Central Michigan 27 (6-5), Miami 31(8-5) 2006 - none 2007 - none 2008 - none 2009 - none 2010 - #2 Ohio State 36 (12-1), Troy 27 (8-5) 2011 - none 2012 - none 2013 - #9 Louisville 42 (12-1), Buffalo 27 (8-5), BG 49 (10-4), Kent 31 (4-8) 2014 - Marshall 30 (13-1) Clearly one of these years is very different than the other years. From 2006 onward, the only games Ohio ever lost by more than 25 were to teams that finished with 12 wins or more, except the Troy game, and except for three games in 2013. We've already discussed the many reasons why 2013 had special issues, so there is no reason to beat that dead horse anymore. The one thing you can really see from this metric is that it was very different than the other years. Even though 2014 wasn't a great year, it was just a normal rebuilding year, and the problems that plagued the team in 2013 appear to be behind the team. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Doc Bobcat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 4,184 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/17/2015 12:46:54 PM  Me thinks things are looking up. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/17/2015 12:47:24 PM  Excellent analysis and insight here. (I hadn't read this prior to my PM.) The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top ytownbobcat General User Member Since: 8/7/2006 Post Count: 1,253 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/17/2015 1:18:23 PM  2013 will always be an anomaly. All that talent. 7 home games. Back to Top Paul Graham General User Member Since: 1/18/2005 Location: The Plains, OH Post Count: 1,424 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/17/2015 3:37:21 PM  We lost a lot of games by more than two scores this season. WMU - 21 points Kentucky - 17 points CMU - 18 points BG - 18 points Marshall - 30 points None of those games were competitive. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,067 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/17/2015 4:57:43 PM  25 points seems like the breaking point. When a team is beaten, but keeps fighting anyway, they stay within 25, unless the other team is very, very good. Most the the time Solich's teams have battled even when behind. I think that the numbers I posted above show that the 2013 was very different from the teams before and the one after, but I also think we all knew that intuitively, so that data is just confirming what we already knew. The 2013 team had significantly more talent than the 2014 team (which was way too young), but even then the 2013 team lost big often, even losing big to one team with a losing record. By contrast the 2014 team played hard at all times, and while they lost by two TDs, it was always to good teams, and was simply because the other team was better/more experienced. In that respect the 2014 team was much more like the 2007 and 2008 teams than the 2013 team. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Mark Lembright '85 General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Highland Heights, OH Post Count: 2,447 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/17/2015 10:29:31 PM  The football team is trending up. For a team that unfortunately is not, see the Men's basketball thread. 15-16 in the last 31 games doesn't look so bad right now, eh Monroe? Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/17/2015 10:58:57 PM  Mark, this is going to be long season in men's basketball. Saul was a really good hire and will be an excellent basketball coach, but he is dealing with a very dysfunctional team right now. I don't think it's anywhere near the level of dysfunctionality we saw with the 2013 football team, but I think it is very real nonetheless. Next year, by contrast I think will be a banner year in both major sports. Go OHIO! The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Paul Graham General User Member Since: 1/18/2005 Location: The Plains, OH Post Count: 1,424 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/18/2015 1:27:13 AM  L.C. wrote: 25 points seems like the breaking point. When a team is beaten, but keeps fighting anyway, they stay within 25, unless the other team is very, very good. Most the the time Solich's teams have battled even when behind. I think that the numbers I posted above show that the 2013 was very different from the teams before and the one after, but I also think we all knew that intuitively, so that data is just confirming what we already knew. The 2013 team had significantly more talent than the 2014 team (which was way too young), but even then the 2013 team lost big often, even losing big to one team with a losing record. By contrast the 2014 team played hard at all times, and while they lost by two TDs, it was always to good teams, and was simply because the other team was better/more experienced. In that respect the 2014 team was much more like the 2007 and 2008 teams than the 2013 team. It could also be said that the 2013 MAC East (and the MAC in general) was much better than the 2014 version. What would the score have been if the 2014 Bobcats played the 2013 BG team? I would guess pretty ugly. I see what you're trying to do though...The 2012-2014 period is just an anomaly and 2015 will return the Bobcats to their rightful place as top-tier MAC team. I just don't see it. Frank will never let us slip too far, but a MAC championship looks to be a loooong way off at least for the time being. Back to Top Mark Lembright '85 General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Highland Heights, OH Post Count: 2,447 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/18/2015 9:25:21 AM  OhioCatFan wrote: Mark, this is going to be long season in men's basketball. Saul was a really good hire and will be an excellent basketball coach, but he is dealing with a very dysfunctional team right now. I don't think it's anywhere near the level of dysfunctionality we saw with the 2013 football team, but I think it is very real nonetheless. Next year, by contrast I think will be a banner year in both major sports. Go OHIO! Hi OCF and I think you're exactly right. I was just trying to point out there are worse things than being 15-16. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,067 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/18/2015 11:30:28 AM  Paul Graham wrote: It could also be said that the 2013 MAC East (and the MAC in general) was much better than the 2014 version. What would the score have been if the 2014 Bobcats played the 2013 BG team? I would guess pretty ugly. I see what you're trying to do though...The 2012-2014 period is just an anomaly and 2015 will return the Bobcats to their rightful place as top-tier MAC team. I just don't see it. Frank will never let us slip too far, but a MAC championship looks to be a loooong way off at least for the time being. I wasn't really "trying to do" anything. Someone pm'd me the various point spreads of the losses, and it stuck out like a sore thumb, so I commented on it. I hadn't really looked at it that way before, but when you line things up, it's remarkable how badly the 2013 team played in some games. An optimist would look at the data and say, "well, 2014 was a lot better than 2013". A pessimist would look at it and say, "see how bad 2013 was!" Was the MAC East better in 2013 than 2014? I'm not so sure. BG was certainly good in 2013, and Buffalo and Kent were all better in 2013 than 2014, but the bottom teams (Akron, Miami, U.Mass) all went the other way and improved a lot from 2013 to 2014. Overall I don't know that the quality was a lot worse, but the league was certainly closer from top to bottom in 2014. How would the 2014 team have played against the 2013 BG team? I don't disagree that Ohio would have lost, nor that it wouldn't have been close. Nevertheless, I think it would have been a lot better than 49-0. Last Edited: 1/18/2015 11:32:33 AM by L.C. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Bcat2 General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 4,295 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/18/2015 1:32:19 PM  Mark Lembright '85 wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Mark, this is going to be long season in men's basketball. Saul was a really good hire and will be an excellent basketball coach, but he is dealing with a very dysfunctional team right now. I don't think it's anywhere near the level of dysfunctionality we saw with the 2013 football team, but I think it is very real nonetheless. Next year, by contrast I think will be a banner year in both major sports. Go OHIO! Hi OCF and I think you're exactly right. I was just trying to point out there are worse things than being 15-16. Except coach Solich's records are; 130-75 overall, 72-56 at Ohio and 48-32 in the MAC. They are what they are. "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK Back to Top bobcat695 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Parkersburg, WV Post Count: 1,345 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/19/2015 10:09:27 AM  Have you factored in the schedule? Marshall killed Ohio, and ironically, they were the only non-conference team we played with a winning record this year. The rest of the games were against MAC foes, and I have yet to hear anyone claim the conference was any good this year. To summarize, we got crushed by the only good team we played, and lost a bunch of games to teams that range from mediocre to the worst in the nation. Thanks for putting this together LC. I am bursting with excitement about Labor Day weekend so we can continue seeing all this awesome improvement. "You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15 Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/19/2015 10:15:18 AM  When good teams hire, is the criteria lack of losses by 25 or more? Is this what it's come to? 2012 Loss by 30 to Ball Loss by 22 to kents 2013 Loss by 42 to Louisville Loss by 27 to Beefs Loss by 49 to BG Loss by 31 to kent Loss by 17 to ECU 2014 Loss by 30 to stupd cow Loss by 18 to CMU Loss by 18 to BG Loss by 21 to WMU. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,552 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/19/2015 10:32:20 AM  bobcat695 wrote: Have you factored in the schedule? Marshall killed Ohio, and ironically, they were the only non-conference team we played with a winning record this year. The rest of the games were against MAC foes, and I have yet to hear anyone claim the conference was any good this year. To summarize, we got crushed by the only good team we played, and lost a bunch of games to teams that range from mediocre to the worst in the nation. Thanks for putting this together LC. I am bursting with excitement about Labor Day weekend so we can continue seeing all this awesome improvement. I realize you are being sarcastic. Do you really expect for Ohio to not be improved next season? Personally, I am very excited about next season. Not sure how you cannot be excited with what we bring back. Last Edited: 1/19/2015 10:33:35 AM by The Optimist I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/19/2015 11:03:56 AM  Monroe: Late in the season we lost to NIU by one TD, and minus a fumble could have easily sent the game into OT. A few games later, in a bowl, NIU got creamed by Marshall and lost by 22 points. Now, who would a reasonable person conclude improved the most during the season looking at the comparative scores with Ohio, Marshall and NIU? I still find it so peculiar, amigo, that you start your little mantra at the end of the 2012 season, which conveniently leaves out wins over Penn State and Marshall and then you also leave out the bowl game which was a win over another team with a winning record. Further, when you report on 2013, you tend to forget about wins over Marshall and North Texas -- two teams with winning records and bowl victories. Marshall beat Maryland in the Military Bowl and North Texas beat UNLV in the Heart of Dallas Bowl. You, sir, are the king of selective reporting and data manipulation to prove a point. The problem is that your point is invalid. Solich has not morphed into Knorr. ;-) The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,067 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/19/2015 11:28:02 AM  bobcat695 wrote: Have you factored in the schedule?... What's to factor in? I think people are trying to read too much into this. The one point that this data makes unambiguously is something that we already knew, that something was very wrong in 2013. Sure, some really, really good teams, are sometimes going to beat you badly, but no one else should. If teams that went 6-6 (2007, 2014) and 4-8 (2008) didn't ever lose by 25 to teams that weren't 12-1 or better, how did the 2013 team manage to do it not once, but three times? That's the bad news. Since I tend to be an optimist, I look for the good news. The good news is that the players and coaches also knew there were problems in 2013, and they took a lot of steps to try to solve them. They did things like changing the selection methods for Captains, and doing the Navy Seal training. Were those enough to change things, and get things back on track? Was 2014 just a normal rebuilding year, like 2007-8? Or, was it merely a continuation of the problems of 2013? This metric says it was more like 2007-8. bobcat695 wrote: ... I am bursting with excitement about Labor Day weekend so we can continue seeing all this awesome improvement. I know you're being sarcastic, but actually, I'm very much looking forward to this fall. 2015 will not be a rebuilding year. Almost all the starters return. I presume they are working hard in the weight room, and this will be the first winter where they will be able to use the IPF, so I expect to see a very solid team this fall, and I expect a very exciting season with very good results. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,306 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/19/2015 11:54:00 AM  bobcat695 wrote: To summarize, we got crushed by the only good team we played, and lost a bunch of games to teams that range from mediocre to the worst in the nation. Thanks for putting this together LC. I am bursting with excitement about Labor Day weekend so we can continue seeing all this awesome improvement. Thanks for that keen insight, Monroe. Back to Top Mike Johnson General User Member Since: 11/11/2004 Location: North Canton, OH Post Count: 1,707 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/19/2015 11:55:28 AM  OhioCatFan wrote: Monroe: Late in the season we lost to NIU by one TD, and minus a fumble could have easily sent the game into OT. A few games later, in a bowl, NIU got creamed by Marshall and lost by 22 points. Now, who would a reasonable person conclude improved the most during the season looking at the comparative scores with Ohio, Marshall and NIU? I still find it so peculiar, amigo, that you start your little mantra at the end of the 2012 season, which conveniently leaves out wins over Penn State and Marshall and then you also leave out the bowl game which was a win over another team with a winning record. Further, when you report on 2013, you tend to forget about wins over Marshall and North Texas -- two teams with winning records and bowl victories. Marshall beat Maryland in the Military Bowl and North Texas beat UNLV in the Heart of Dallas Bowl. You, sir, are the king of selective reporting and data manipulation to prove a point. The problem is that your point is invalid. Solich has not morphed into Knorr. ;-) I know I'm going out to the end of long limb with the following observation: After watching all or parts of many bowl games and keeping in mind how Ohio played in its final three games, I tend to think the Bobcats could have fared well against several teams that did play in bowls. In other words, at season's end, I was encouraged by what I saw from the Cats. (No, I haven't begun wearing rose-tinted glasses.) http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author Back to Top Casper71 General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Post Count: 2,895 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/22/2015 4:03:58 PM  Things I've been thinking about: Ohio was 6-6 this year in a rebuilding year. I can buy that. Then, we didn't lose many games by more than 25 points, I guess I like that. And, I too am really looking forward to next year and improvement by all the young guys that played! And, yes, I'd like to see the rebuilding turn into Championship form for sure in 2015. The one negative I think about: We won 3 games out of 6 by one field goal, yes 3 points, to some really bad MAC teams and a couple in the last seconds. We were much closer to 3-9 than 9-3. So rebuilding year or not, there is a LOT of work to be done! So, "Get'er done" and come back in top form come August!! Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,067 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/22/2015 4:50:11 PM  I can't disagree with anything you've said here, Casper. There is much to be done, but the pieces are there. I hope they have a great lifting/conditioning season, get a lot of good work done in the IPF, and have a solid Spring, setting the stage for a much better season this Fall. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top UpSan Bobcat General User Member Since: 8/30/2005 Location: Upper Sandusky, OH Post Count: 3,792 Status: Offline     RE: Which one is unlike the others?    Posted: 1/23/2015 9:01:59 AM  Casper71 wrote: The one negative I think about: We won 3 games out of 6 by one field goal, yes 3 points, to some really bad MAC teams and a couple in the last seconds. We were much closer to 3-9 than 9-3. So rebuilding year or not, there is a LOT of work to be done! So, "Get'er done" and come back in top form come August!! You're right, Ohio was basically 3-1 in close games, so did the Bobcats get a little bit lucky or was it there something good about that the team that will allow it to continue to do that in the future as well? Either way, it seems apparent Ohio should be a lot better, but we'll see for sure in the fall. Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 22  of 22 Posts Jump to Page:   1 View Other 'Ohio Football' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 148 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 146 Guests 2 Registered Users:   oldkatz, Kevin Finnegan There are no other users looking at this page.

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