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Topic:  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?

Topic:  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/10/2014 8:17:34 PM 
L.C., as you know from your reading of the definitive paper on early OHIO football ;-), as of 1973, OHIO had the 1898 UC game down in its official records as 12-0 loss. And, the interpreted reporter who wrote said definitive piece did not report that there were any stories about the game in the local press. There were some missing editions of local papers, so that might have been the problem, though at that time three Athens papers were reporting games -- The Messenger & Herald, the Journal, and The OU Mirror (predecessor of The Post). The Glouster Press also sometimes carried OHIO football stories. It's interesting that both schools now say the game was a 12-12 tie. Sorry I can't give a first hand report of this game, but oldkatz, or fansince1849 might be able to! ;-) Perhaps a search of the Cincinnati papers might find a story about this game.

On a related note, 1898 was the season that Ralph O'Bleness, QB, was seriously injured in practice before the WVU game, and died about a month later in early December. I've sometimes wondered what kind of pallor this may have had over the early years of OHIO football. This gridiron death got nationally publicity and was used by both sides of the ban football debate that was raging at the time.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/12/2014 1:02:24 PM 
WARNING: Unpopular Opinion Alert!

I view the present state of the OHIO/Miami "rivalry" in a near identical fashion to that of the Evil Empire/Michigan (with both schools sporting the name Ohio presently kicking the other):

-As long as one side is dominantly kicking the other's ass, it is the most important thing in the world TO THE KICKER.

-However, in both scenarios, the kickees, as judged by independent industry experts, kick the ass of their "rival" when it comes to the actual mission of the university: being a better institution of higher learning.

-Hence, it is easy for the kickee to not really feel too dejected when they are beaten by their rival on the field of play.

I sense that Michigan and Miami hold themselves in similar high regard v their "rivals", and therefore feel they hold the "moral" high ground regardless of wins and losses. However they would certainly revel in a victory over their "rival".

I don't know enough about the history of the academic ratings of OHIO and Miami prior to my time at OHIO in the 80's, but my logical assumption would be that the two were viewed as more academic peers prior to that time, and that it has been the last three to four decades that Miami has been able to solidify itself as a Public Ivy. However I am certain that Michigan has always been viewed as being superior to the Evil Empire academically, and the rivalry there was always more fueled by the two being their respective state's flagships.

Last Edited: 12/12/2014 1:03:51 PM by D.A.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday
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DelBobcat
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/16/2014 12:18:32 PM 
D.A. wrote:
WARNING: Unpopular Opinion Alert!

I view the present state of the OHIO/Miami "rivalry" in a near identical fashion to that of the Evil Empire/Michigan (with both schools sporting the name Ohio presently kicking the other):

-As long as one side is dominantly kicking the other's ass, it is the most important thing in the world TO THE KICKER.

-However, in both scenarios, the kickees, as judged by independent industry experts, kick the ass of their "rival" when it comes to the actual mission of the university: being a better institution of higher learning.

-Hence, it is easy for the kickee to not really feel too dejected when they are beaten by their rival on the field of play.

I sense that Michigan and Miami hold themselves in similar high regard v their "rivals", and therefore feel they hold the "moral" high ground regardless of wins and losses. However they would certainly revel in a victory over their "rival".

I don't know enough about the history of the academic ratings of OHIO and Miami prior to my time at OHIO in the 80's, but my logical assumption would be that the two were viewed as more academic peers prior to that time, and that it has been the last three to four decades that Miami has been able to solidify itself as a Public Ivy. However I am certain that Michigan has always been viewed as being superior to the Evil Empire academically, and the rivalry there was always more fueled by the two being their respective state's flagships.


I always wonder about this though. I know Miami is ranked higher by "experts" and that they have a local reputation as the public Ivy. But around here I say I went to Ohio University and I get the following responses, in order of popularity:

1. That's a great school
2. Oh, the Bobcats!
3. Halloween!
4. My friend is a Scripps grad.
5. Wait, that's different than Ohio State right?
6. Oh, the Buckeyes! Oh no, the Bobcats? Oh yeah, yeah, I knew that.

When I mention Miami as our rival, I get the following responses:

1. Why would your rival be a school in Florida? Wait, Ohio? There is no Miami in Ohio, that's silly.
2. Crickets.

So, as much as I hate occasionally getting mistaken for the Evil Empire in Columbus, I'm happy that MOST people are familiar with Ohio University and view it positively. Most people here don't even know Miami exists. So what good does it do you to have a degree from a supposedly "superior" institution if when you leave the Cincy metro area no one has ever heard of your school?

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/16/2014 1:12:10 PM 
One notable difference in the Ohio v Miami/State v Michigan comparison... We are Miami's older brother while Ohio State is Michigan's younger brother.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/16/2014 6:50:06 PM 
I have to disagree about Miami being unknown. If anyone was in a fraternity or sorority, they know Miami. If they are in business or sales, they know Miami. If they're from the east coast, they likely know someone who went to Miami.

We may dislike Miami, but it has a fantastic reputation around the country amongst people who make decisions and who make money.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/16/2014 8:27:50 PM 
Delete Pending wrote:
I have to disagree about Miami being unknown. If anyone was in a fraternity or sorority, they know Miami. If they are in business or sales, they know Miami. If they're from the east coast, they likely know someone who went to Miami.


It makes sense because they have 3,500 students in their business school. Its about a quarter of their school. Ohio's business school is under 1,000 students.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/16/2014 8:54:46 PM 
D.A. wrote:

I don't know enough about the history of the academic ratings of OHIO and Miami prior to my time at OHIO in the 80's, but my logical assumption would be that the two were viewed as more academic peers prior to that time, and that it has been the last three to four decades that Miami has been able to solidify itself as a Public Ivy. However I am certain that Michigan has always been viewed as being superior to the Evil Empire academically, and the rivalry there was always more fueled by the two being their respective state's flagships.


Miami was classified in a book as a Public Ivy in the mid 80s so that reputation is many decades old. They've always benefited from the status as the top school in SW Ohio region and they aren't that far from Indianapolis or Chicago as far as attracting students. Miami has a better campus than IU or Purdue. If you are looking for a private school like setting but don't want to go to a tiny school Miami is a good option. Ohio is different in that it serves SE Ohio as the exclusive educational option so it lets in students from the Appalachian Counties under easier standards. The average ACT score from those accepted to OU from SE Ohio is around 22.5 but from other sectors of the state its about 26 the same as Miami, but that brings the overall average down in the college stat books. Ohio is 15% greek and Miami is 50% greek. Again not a surprise with the business school 25% of the enrollment at Miami. The students that are coming down to Ohio from the suburbs of Cleveland, Pittsburgh ect. are for a higher end educational experience.

Last Edited: 12/16/2014 8:58:14 PM by Campus Flow

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/16/2014 9:06:14 PM 
Miami sucks.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/16/2014 9:31:22 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
D.A. wrote:
WARNING: Unpopular Opinion Alert!

I view the present state of the OHIO/Miami "rivalry" in a near identical fashion to that of the Evil Empire/Michigan (with both schools sporting the name Ohio presently kicking the other):

-As long as one side is dominantly kicking the other's ass, it is the most important thing in the world TO THE KICKER.

-However, in both scenarios, the kickees, as judged by independent industry experts, kick the ass of their "rival" when it comes to the actual mission of the university: being a better institution of higher learning.

-Hence, it is easy for the kickee to not really feel too dejected when they are beaten by their rival on the field of play.

I sense that Michigan and Miami hold themselves in similar high regard v their "rivals", and therefore feel they hold the "moral" high ground regardless of wins and losses. However they would certainly revel in a victory over their "rival".

I don't know enough about the history of the academic ratings of OHIO and Miami prior to my time at OHIO in the 80's, but my logical assumption would be that the two were viewed as more academic peers prior to that time, and that it has been the last three to four decades that Miami has been able to solidify itself as a Public Ivy. However I am certain that Michigan has always been viewed as being superior to the Evil Empire academically, and the rivalry there was always more fueled by the two being their respective state's flagships.


I always wonder about this though. I know Miami is ranked higher by "experts" and that they have a local reputation as the public Ivy. But around here I say I went to Ohio University and I get the following responses, in order of popularity:

1. That's a great school
2. Oh, the Bobcats!
3. Halloween!
4. My friend is a Scripps grad.
5. Wait, that's different than Ohio State right?
6. Oh, the Buckeyes! Oh no, the Bobcats? Oh yeah, yeah, I knew that.

When I mention Miami as our rival, I get the following responses:

1. Why would your rival be a school in Florida? Wait, Ohio? There is no Miami in Ohio, that's silly.
2. Crickets.

So, as much as I hate occasionally getting mistaken for the Evil Empire in Columbus, I'm happy that MOST people are familiar with Ohio University and view it positively. Most people here don't even know Miami exists. So what good does it do you to have a degree from a supposedly "superior" institution if when you leave the Cincy metro area no one has ever heard of your school?


In many ways Ohio is at a perfect point because its viewed to be a high quality liberal arts public school without the snob attitudes that get attached to Michigan, Berkley, Wisconsin. Going to schools with those names label you as a cut throat prep who couldn't get into an Ivy League school. Someone who drives a range rover and only associates with people at the right beach parties. Ohio is perceived more like a SUNY school or from the engineering angle like Cal Poly, Michigan Tech, Colorado School of Mines. Universities respected for producing solid grads instead of corporate wannabees.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/17/2014 12:01:00 AM 
And, perhaps, the most important difference between OHIO and that school in Oxford occurred during the last Rebellion. The Hoover History of Ohio University reports that President Howard claimed that Ohio University had more graduates serving as officers in the Union Army than any other college in the state. Also, other researchers have confirmed that Athens and Southeastern Ohio were strongly pro-Union. The situation in Oxford and Butler county was much different, according to the official history of Miami University, The Miami Years, by Walter Havighurst. Not only was the president a southerner, but the university had many students from five southern states. They had alumni who served in the Confederate Congress, a professor who became assistant secretary of war for Jeff Davis, another was a nephew of Jeff Davis and became a Confederate general. The whole chapter on the Civil War period is called, "A College Divided." There was no such division at Ohio University at the time. The university, like the surrounding area, was solidly pro Union. The 1863 gubernatorial election shows this very clearly. While Athens County and every county to the southeast of Athens all voted for Ohio alumnus John Brough, the pro-Union candidate, Butler county stands out as the only county in Southwestern Ohio that voted for the Peace Democrat (Copperhead) Clement Vallandigham. SO, IN SUMMARY, MIAMI EVEN SUCKED 1861-65, WHICH SHOULD COME AS NO SURPRISE ANY BA MAN OR WOMAN.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/17/2014 11:10:33 AM 
Delete Pending wrote:
I have to disagree about Miami being unknown. If anyone was in a fraternity or sorority, they know Miami. If they are in business or sales, they know Miami. If they're from the east coast, they likely know someone who went to Miami.

We may dislike Miami, but it has a fantastic reputation around the country amongst people who make decisions and who make money.


See, again, I hear those things all the time--but my personal experience doesn't line up with that. I live on the east coast, I have many friends in business, and I have many who were Greek. Not a single one of them had ever heard of Miami University. Not one. None of my colleagues at work are familiar with it, except a few that know that there is indeed "that other" Miami that plays in the MAC and is somewhere in the Midwest. But they definitely don't know anything about it.

Now this is all anecdotal, I haven't taken a scientific survey of business leaders or east coast residents, but I'm telling you that I really, really think that the Miami reputation isn't as well regarded as Ohioans (or maybe Midwesterners in general?) think. The whole "good business school" argument is weak. In the Northeast there is Harvard, Penn, Columbia, MIT, NYU, Yale, Georgetown, Cornell, etc. When companies are looking outside of that elite group of local schools they are thinking about Berkley, UVA, Duke, Michigan, Notre Dame, Stanford, Northwestern, Carnegie Mellon, etc. Nobody has Miami on their radar, as far as I can tell.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/17/2014 11:19:30 AM 
^Interesting, of the mistaken impressions I regularly have about alma mater, people think that I graduated from Miami when I say I graduated from OHIO. This is not as common as mistaking OHIO with the Evil Empire, but it happens more than I would have ever thought, likely because of the use of the moniker "Miami of OHIO".

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/17/2014 1:06:44 PM 
So, DA, which is worse? Having someone mistake your alma mater with o$u or with Miami?

Last Edited: 12/17/2014 1:07:06 PM by bobcatsquared
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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/17/2014 1:40:12 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
So, DA, which is worse? Having someone mistake your alma mater with o$u or with Miami?


That's like asking me to choose which one of two methods of slow, agonizing methods of death I would rather experience.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Is Miami still our top rival?
   Posted: 12/18/2014 12:19:54 AM 
C Money wrote:
Miami sucks.


Succinct.


End of topic. Next thread.

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