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Topic: RE: UAB to Drop Football

Topic: RE: UAB to Drop Football

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catfan28
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Member Since: 6/11/2011
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/1/2014 10:42:18 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Deficit does not equal subsidy!,,

You'll need to back that up, my friend.

99% of athletic departments will cover the deficit one of two ways:

1. Student fees
2. General fund (tuition)

That's subsidy! You can't just operate at a loss the $$$ has to come from somewhere.

Ohio69
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/2/2014 6:17:48 PM

catfan28 wrote:

That's subsidy! You can't just operate at a loss the $$$ has to come from somewhere.

Wait, what? http://www.usdebtclock.org/

There are no deficits. Just investments. Ohio likes to invest student fees in Athletics. What's the problem?

Last Edited: 12/2/2014 6:19:40 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

BobcatCrew
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Member Since: 5/1/2012
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/2/2014 6:43:54 PM

WOW. This is what the death of football looks like... Crazy!

UAB president leaving the meeting after telling the football team you're done.

http://instagram.com/p/wHjf_-zLiF/?utm_source=partner&utm...

Recovering Journalist
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/2/2014 7:11:01 PM

Some interesting quotes from Ridpath in this piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/uab...

OhioStunter
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Member Since: 2/18/2005
Location: Chicago
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/2/2014 8:00:26 PM

[QUOTE=Recovering Journalist]Some interesting quotes from Ridpath in this piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/uab...]

Great link. Thanks for sharing.

I wonder if all of the smaller conferences could band together to set standard pricing for playing games at the big conference schools to help make up those deficits and "force" some revenue sharing.

Want to schedule a C-USA team to play at Alabama? $1.5M for any team

A MAC school to play at Michigan? $1.25M

Collusion? No more so than what is already happening on the other side of college football. What other defense do programs have? UAB won't be the only one to shut down its football program.

Who else will big teams schedule? They need the "easy" wins and small schools should make them pay for them.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11430182/c...

Y-CityCatFan
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Member Since: 7/28/2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 136

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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/2/2014 10:14:42 PM

This is hard to watch. What a sad situation!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvSuQEh6lI

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/2/2014 11:12:04 PM

Actually, C-USA is currently at 13 with UAB, so I imagine they will just stay pat at 12.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Campus Flow
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/2/2014 11:37:25 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Actually, C-USA is currently at 13 with UAB, so I imagine they will just stay pat at 12.

Charlotte was scheduled to join in football next year for 14. CUSA could pull their offer letter with UAB leaving.

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JSF
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 12:15:35 AM

BobcatCrew wrote:

Did I hear a, "I'm gonna $@%@ you up!"?

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 7:22:57 AM

[QUOTE=Y-CityCatFan]This is hard to watch. What a sad situation!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvSuQEh6lI[/QUOTE]

Is that the coach at the beginning who gets emotional? I wanna play for that guy!

Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 9:19:49 AM

It's impossible for me to view this as a singular event. UAB seems more like a canary in the coal mine for football and maybe beyond. The escalating expenses and the fees used to cover them are untenable. UAB faced a certain amount of anger for this decision, but you can bet there are other 1A schools that will see what happens over the next few years.

My bet is that nothing significant will change UAB from an enrollment or academic rankings standpoint. If so, I expect other schools to start doing a cost/benefit analysis on athletics, and football is the most obvious place to start cutting for many reasons. To name a few: It's the biggest expense for most departments, it has increasingly well-established negative health consequences, it isn't played by women (who make up the majority of the population and most student bodies), the greed of the Power 5 has pulled back the curtain on the illusion of competition for the rest of 1A, and pretty soon the pool of players and fans will shrink as parents stop letting their kids play.

UAB may well just be (trail)Blazers in the inevitable death of most money-losing college football programs.

Casper71
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 9:37:52 AM

Technically, in college and university financial talk those are called "non mandatory transfers" from the General Fund and/or Student Fees to an auxilliary (Athletics) which, by the way, is supposed to run at a break even (haha). Things like Parking and Dining and Residence Halls are the typical Auxilliaries that actually do have a model which makes them break even (at least) over time.

L.C.
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 9:38:53 AM

Remember that when a school has football, Title IX requires them to add an offsetting 85 women scholarship athletes, and ~120 women sports participants. Once they drop football, they also must drop probably 5-6 women's sports. If they don't drop the women's sports, Title IX will require them to add back some other men's sports to keep the number of scholarship athletes equal, and the expected savings will evaporate.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

JSF
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 9:50:54 AM

I liked the one player who angrily asked if he was supposed to focus on his education now.

L.C. wrote:

If they don't drop the women's sports, Title IX will require them to add back some other men's sports to keep the number of scholarship athletes equal, and the expected savings will evaporate.

Not entirely. Most sports cost a lot less to run than football does (coaches, equipment, other ancillary fees). And many schools can simply funnel those scholarships into other sports that weren't getting full scholarships.

GoCats105
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 10:31:55 AM

JSF wrote:

I liked the one player who angrily asked if he was supposed to focus on his education now.

L.C. wrote:

If they don't drop the women's sports, Title IX will require them to add back some other men's sports to keep the number of scholarship athletes equal, and the expected savings will evaporate.

Great point. That's something that a lot of people don't realize. Not all athletes at schools who aren't football or basketball or volleyball players get full scholarships. Half-tuition and quarter-tuition scholarships are very common in small athletic departments. When I was at X, I think the baseball team only had 7-10 full scholarships to give out, so they split them up.

Ted Thompson
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 10:43:20 AM

JSF wrote:

I liked the one player who angrily asked if he was supposed to focus on his education now.

L.C. wrote:

If they don't drop the women's sports, Title IX will require them to add back some other men's sports to keep the number of scholarship athletes equal, and the expected savings will evaporate.

Other sports cost less but football also produces the most revenue. UAB football can get money from buy games, tickets and TV. They played 2 buy games this year and drew 130k people. So let's say they got $1.5M for the two buy games, $1.5M for the CUSA TV contract and $500K in tickets/parking. That is probably enough to cover their non-scholarship costs.

IF UAB stays at the same scholarship level, I would be willing to wager their net spend would be neutral or go up. The fact is that the biggest factor in the cost of college athletics is the skyrocketing tuition. You can argue the hard-to-qualify benefits of football but there is value. Like others have pointed out, this wasn't entirely about the money.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

JSF
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 11:37:44 AM

The question is football is a net money gainer or loser.

OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 11:46:55 AM

MedinaCat wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-f...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solom...

That 2nd link shows a list of schools currently operating at a deficit. Ohio is on there. I wonder if that list takes into account the student fees?

So every MAC school save NIU is on the list. Some feel dropping a division would fix things, but I'd like to see the list of schools playing FCS(D1-AA) football that are operating at a loss as well. Anyone know what our subsidy rate is or where one can find it?

I'd be curious to know as well. Despite the improved on field success, I've wondered how long MAC Schools can sustain the attempts at trying to keep up with the "Power 5". Those are substantial numbers that are subsidized across the conference and others like the MAC.

Ted Thompson
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 12:01:29 PM

JSF wrote:

The question is football is a net money gainer or loser.

Not if you plan to keep offering the same number of scholarships. Then the question is how much does the substitute sports cost vs. football's net (of revenue) cost. I think it would be very close. Probably not worth losing the value of football.

If you plan to reduce scholarships for men and women (which may be UAB's plan), then yes you save money.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

bobcat28
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: United States
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 12:03:57 PM

Feel for the kids here. This is an interesting case study though. I believe enrollment will go down. If it doesn't who's next? EMU?

whocaresgobobcats
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 12:28:09 PM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

Except the Alabama system has plenty of money to pay for the UAB program. But Paul Bryant wanted it gone, so it's gone. This decision has very little to do with money.

shabamon
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Location: Cincinnati
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 12:41:46 PM

I've read several articles about the story (most of them suck) and the one thing I can't figure out is does Ray Watts deserve as much vitriol as he is receiving? How much influence of this decision did he have or was he forced to accept it?

GoCats105
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 12:47:01 PM

bobcat28 wrote:

Feel for the kids here. This is an interesting case study though. I believe enrollment will go down. If it doesn't who's next? EMU?

That's the thing I don't quite get. UAB has been bad yes, but they haven't been EMU bad. Only twice in their history have they won only 2 games in a year (2007 and 2013). Looking at their history, it doesn't look awful for a program that started 23 years ago. And it's not like they are in a bad area. They are located in the largest city in Alabama in a talent rich South. Granted, there are probably slim pickings amongst all of the other teams, but there are worse places you can play football (Idaho, EMU). If you get the right coach in there, which Clark definitely seems to be, then what's the issue?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UAB_Blazers_football...

After reading more and more about the personal side of this story with Bear Bryant's son and the Alabama Board, one has to think it wasn't just because of the numbers or the fan base wasn't there. Something deeper is going on here.

Last Edited: 12/3/2014 12:47:57 PM by GoCats105

OhioStunter
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Location: Chicago
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 12:47:19 PM

I smell an excellent "30 for 30" piece on this.

shabamon
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Location: Cincinnati
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RE: UAB to Drop Football

Posted: 12/3/2014 12:51:18 PM

^Yes, I'm dying for some investigative journalism here.

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