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Topic: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Topic: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

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AudioCat'13
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6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/22/2014 4:10:30 PM

If Ohio were to beat the Redhawks again (Miami Sucks!) but were to miss out on a bowl game this year could it be considered a positive for the program for the long haul? I fully understand the positive to a bowl game, exposure, extra practices, winning a trophy,hopefully getting a favorable pairing etc. However I feel there could be some positives to missing out on a year, and I'm not saying if we are offered a bowl we shouldn't go.
Ever since the Sports Illustrated article came out, I feel we could all see a notable decline with the lopsided losses to BG, Buffalo, Western etc. As some have hinted at perhaps the team was feeling like everything should be automatic. With football being such a mental game, as well as physical perhaps the program has lost the appreciation of a bowl game, and missing out might essentially hit the reset button, refocus the team and coaches, and perhaps bring on a fresh/blue collar attitude. Of course I could also be terribly mistaken and could cause the wheels to fall off. I just figured I'd share a few thoughts and see what others opinions were.

L.C.
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/22/2014 5:26:31 PM

I don't think you are necessarily mistaken, but I think the effect you are looking for has already been accomplished. With a win, and a bowl, the result would be reinforcement that if they work hard, even when things turn against them at times, they can still accomplish goals. With a win and no bowl the lesson is similar, that while they are close, they must work hard all off season to assure that they don't end up here again.

Whatever happens Tuesday, I think the season results for this season are far from what the team had hoped for, just as the results from 2005 and 2008 disappointed the team, and made the players work hard in the off-season for the following year.

Another similarity to 2005 is that few starters will be lost:
2005 - Wesley (RT), Cody(TE), Byrum(CB), Ream(DE), Miller (P)
2014 - L. Smith (WR), Cochran (WR), Kristoff (S), Ingol (S), Crutcher (DT), McLeod (DT), Davis (DT), Chapman (LS),

Even losing two starters at WR, plus Bradley, that position has tremendous depth and is not a concern. At Safety you similarly lose two starters, plus perhaps Carpenter as well, but with injuries, we've seen a lot of play from Devin Jones, Toran Davis, and Aaron Macer, plus next year we can presume that Blake Scipio and Quallen will return from injury, so Safety will be solid. At DT, you have more of a question mark, but you do have returning players in Purdum and Tautuaiki, plus younger players Aloese and Porter, and some new players in Frueauf and Stephens.

Back to your point, though, the most important thing for the team to do is just win, and then after that the bowls will fall where they will. Thanksgiving will be much more enjoyable if it includes a serving of thrashed Redhawk, with or without a bowl.

Edit - Fixed an error with regard to Davis

Last Edited: 11/23/2014 2:23:56 PM by L.C.

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Pataskala
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/22/2014 5:45:16 PM

L.C. wrote:

Thanksgiving will be much more enjoyable if it includes a serving of thrashed Redhawk, with or without a bowl.

It's more appropriate to serve thrashed Redhawk on a plate, but a bowl is appropriate for thrashed Redhawk stew.

Bowls are supposed to be a reward for a successful season. For most, 6-6 isn't all that successful. I guess it depends on what they do with it. It gives the players one last chance to finish with a winning record, which could help to build for next year. But if they lose, it's a long off-season. I agree with LC -- Beat Fiami and don't worry about it. If they go, great. But if they don't, at least they would end the season on a high note.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
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Campus Flow
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/22/2014 7:15:45 PM

If the choice is between beating the Redhawks and a bowl my vote goes for beating the Redhawks. That is however not what you are choosing. Its a choice between beating the Redhawks and a bowl or beating them and not going to a bowl. I choose the former. We have a legit chance to win a bowl with the way this team is improving and a chance for a winning season.

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OUE+Z Grad
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 8:53:16 AM

It is amazing that we are able to have these conversations. Up until this year, 6-6 meant no bowl for a MAC team almost always. I used to sell the MAC to Power 5 fans by explaining that at least MAC teams have to earn a bowl with a winning record and can't just beat up four patsies and two bottom-feeding conference foes and go bowling. Honestly, though, I want Ohio to beat Miami and I want a bowl game. Not only are the extra practices good, but as a fan, bowl season is always more exciting when your team is in one. It's a little hollow when Dec. starts and the season is over. I think Ohio has a bright future and a springboard to next season would be to finish strong by beating Miami and hoisting a bowl trophy. Last year, a bowl seemed impossible after NIU blew their Orange Bowl bid, but we still got one. I'm still hopeful we'll get to one. Beat Miami!

Bcat2
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 9:51:36 AM

L.C. wrote:

I don't think you are necessarily mistaken, but I think the effect you are looking for has already been accomplished. With a win, and a bowl, the result would be reinforcement that if they work hard, even when things turn against them at times, they can still accomplish goals. With a win and no bowl the lesson is similar, that while they are close, they must work hard all off season to assure that they don't end up here again.

Whatever happens Tuesday, I think the season results for this season are far from what the team had hoped for, just as the results from 2005 and 2008 disappointed the team, and made the players work hard in the off-season for the following year.

Another similarity to 2005 is that few starters will be lost:
2005 - Wesley (RT), Cody(TE), Byrum(CB), Ream(DE), Miller (P)
2014 - L. Smith (WR), Cochran (WR), Kristoff (S), Ingol (S), Crutcher (DT), McLeod (DT), Chapman (LS)

Even losing two starters at WR, plus Bradley, that position has tremendous depth and is not a concern. At Safety you similarly lose two starters, plus perhaps Carpenter as well, but with injuries, we've seen a lot of play from Devin Jones, Toran Davis, and Aaron Macer, plus next year we can presume that Blake Scipio and Quallen will return from injury, so Safety will be solid. At DT, you have more of a question mark, but you do have returning players in Tony Davis and Tautuaiki, plus younger players Aloese and Porter, and some new players in Frueauf and Stephens.

Back to your point, though, the most important thing for the team to do is just win, and then after that the bowls will fall where they will. Thanksgiving will be much more enjoyable if it includes a serving of thrashed Redhawk, with or without a bowl.

Last Edited: 11/23/2014 2:35:53 PM by Bcat2

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 12:21:04 PM

Why isn't MAC Championship a good thing?

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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OhioCatFan
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 2:02:10 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Why isn't MAC Championship a good thing?

Who said it wasn't?

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Alan Swank
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 2:40:23 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Why isn't MAC Championship a good thing?

Who said it wasn't?

I think what Monroe is saying is why this preoccupation with a bowl bid? Why aren't we demanding a league championship?

L.C.
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 2:49:41 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Why isn't MAC Championship a good thing?

Who said it wasn't?

I think what Monroe is saying is why this preoccupation with a bowl bid? Why aren't we demanding a league championship?

I thought that everyone was.

At this point in the season, however, there are only a few goals that are still achievable:
1. Beating Miami
2. Bowl game
3. 2d place finish in the MAC East

Since the last of these isn't much, the posts seem to focus on the first two, plus on looking forward to 2015.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bcat2
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 3:07:01 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Why isn't MAC Championship a good thing?

Who said it wasn't?

I think what Monroe is saying is why this preoccupation with a bowl bid? Why aren't we demanding a league championship?

"Demanding" Really? Demanding fans are never helpful.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Alan Swank
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 3:45:45 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Why isn't MAC Championship a good thing?

Who said it wasn't?

I think what Monroe is saying is why this preoccupation with a bowl bid? Why aren't we demanding a league championship?

"Demanding" Really? Demanding fans are never helpful.

You know I thought about that when I typed it but couldn't come up with the right word. Perhaps expecting would have been a better word although with the money that we have committed to our two highest interest sport, those in the business world would demand a higher return on investment.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 4:08:38 PM

Beat a MAC team with a winning record.

Win MAC title.

WMU, CMU, NIU, BG better than us now. redhawk rising...'kron and UMass apparently rising, also. In light of that, unless something(s) change VERY significantly, don't see how there's a MAC Championship next year.

I'd like to thank myself for that reasonable assessment.

Last Edited: 11/23/2014 4:09:18 PM by Monroe Slavin

OhioCatFan
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 4:15:39 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

. . . I'd like to thank myself for that reasonable assessment.

What's reasonable about it? We are rising too, but you don't seem to acknowledge it in the least. [Alan, we aren't in a position to "demand" anything, but I don't know any fans here who don't want a MACC and who weren't very disappointed at our second half swoon against NIU that kept us from it.] Monroe, would you be keeping up this endless series of irrational posts if NIU had missed that FG in the waning seconds of the MACC? Is that the only thing that's driving your negativity and your incessant drumbeat?

Alan Swank
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 4:24:33 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

. . . I'd like to thank myself for that reasonable assessment.

Looks like I may have opened a can of worms with one simple word - demand. Because we are a public institution funded with your tax dollars and mine, we can expect and perhaps demand that those funds are spent wisely in both athletic and academic areas. Many on here would agree that we have a bloated administration on the academic side and as such, spend way more than we need to. Others would contend that we don't spend enough on the other 14 sports (is having volleyball come up on the landing/splash page of ohiobobcat.com such a big expenditure that we can't do it in the days before the MAC tournament?). You're right, OCF, in the literal sense we can't demand anything. But we sure can expect certain levels of achievement both on the athletic field and in the classroom.

Bcat2
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 5:15:55 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Bcat2 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Why isn't MAC Championship a good thing?

Who said it wasn't?

I think what Monroe is saying is why this preoccupation with a bowl bid? Why aren't we demanding a league championship?

"Demanding" Really? Demanding fans are never helpful.

Well the list of returns is long. Winning, in the MAC only NIU has won more. Bowling, in the MAC only NIU has been better. Attendance, looking good. Still no MACC, well, you know the thing about those "demanding" fans is if you give them something they want, they just want more. Never happy, ever see a demanding fan happy? I never have. Sad really. After the Buffalo game, a good win, were the demanding fans happy? The NIU contest, a great game all round, any demanding fans happy. Well anyway the fan base is building. There are Ohio grads who have seen more wins than loses, who can wear the green around the country and have folks recognize the Bobcat. So I would say the returns are there.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

L.C.
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 6:23:42 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

...Still no MACC, well, you know the thing about those "demanding" fans is if you give them something they want, they just want more. Never happy, ever see a demanding fan happy? I never have. ...

Some very wise words, there. If winning is the only thing, you can never be happy, because there is always more to win. Whatever the level of winning, there is always some higher level, and anything less becomes "not acceptable".

When I was young, I was around these words, which perhaps explains my different perspective: "Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory."

To me those words mean, don't focus solely on the victory, but rather enjoy the game itself. Appreciate the action, and the good plays, and the individual achievements, for therein lies the true glory. Therefore I try to support teams in victory and loss, so long as they play hard, and so long as they continue to work to improve. I have no right to expect, much less demand any more than that.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

C Money
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 6:45:36 PM

6-6 and no bowl is better than 5-7 and no bowl.

Muck Fiami.

Alan Swank
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 8:24:36 PM

L.C. wrote:

Bcat2 wrote:

...Still no MACC, well, you know the thing about those "demanding" fans is if you give them something they want, they just want more. Never happy, ever see a demanding fan happy? I never have. ...

Nobody said anything about winning being the only thing - what we said was that we expect better than .500 and think that a conference championship more than once every 46 years is appropriate. You can win a conference championship without winning every game which would be perfectly o.k. with the vast majority of posters on this site.

L.C.
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 8:46:42 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Nobody said anything about winning being the only thing - what we said was that we expect better than .500...

Wow, Alan, you have baffled me. From your question, it seems clear that you do not believe a .500 season in a rebuilding year is satisfactory anymore. Now I have to ask, what has changed so that you now expect better than .500 even in weak years, and clearly much more in good years?

That isn't something you expected even as recently as a few years ago. In fact, I remember you arguing that football should be discontinued or dropped to FCS or lower, and that trying to win at football in Athens was an exercise in futility, and that all available resources would be better off devoted to other sports such as Basketball and Volleyball. What has changed your opinion so dramatically that you now believe that Football can and should be over .500 every year?

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Alan Swank
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 9:52:09 PM

L.C. wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Nobody said anything about winning being the only thing - what we said was that we expect better than .500...

Never said it should be discontinued but did remark on more than one occasion that perhaps we should be playing 1AA which in essence aren't all but the top 5 conferences doing now? Marshall may go undefeated yet not get a sniff at the playoff. So what are they playing for and what are the other 65 schools playing for? Conference championships and as weak as the MAC east is, we should be competing for the east title each and every year considering the resources that we have committed to the program. For the life of me I don't see where that is an outrageous or unrealistic expectation.

Last Edited: 11/23/2014 10:03:20 PM by Alan Swank

Paul Graham
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/23/2014 11:29:03 PM

L.C. wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Nobody said anything about winning being the only thing - what we said was that we expect better than .500...

Wow, Alan, you have baffled me. From your question, it seems clear that you do not believe a .500 season in a rebuilding year is satisfactory anymore.

We spend a lot of time on this site talking about records and wins and losses. LC, how much is .500 really worth when potentially none of those wins are against top 100 teams?

L.C.
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/24/2014 4:36:22 AM

Paul Graham wrote:

We spend a lot of time on this site talking about records and wins and losses. LC, how much is .500 really worth when potentially none of those wins are against top 100 teams?

Good question, Paul. As we know, mathematically it is impossible for all teams to be over .500 because for every team over .500, another must be under .500. Now, if you factor in a win for each team against an FCS foe, it could be possible for every team to be .500 or better, but when you also factor in the P5-G5 disparity, the majority of G5 teams will be under .500, it would seem. In a typical year, what percentage of G5 teams are .500 or better?

Next, we have to add the other part of my statement into the equation, the rebuilding year aspect. Most teams will be unable to avoid a rebuilding year every now and then, with the norm probably every 5-6 years or so. If it is to be true that even in rebuilding years, the team must be over .500, then I guess one has to ask what percentage of G5 teams are able to stay over .500 for five to six consecutive years?

Only if you can answer these questions can you know how reasonable the expectation of being over .500 every year, even in rebuilding years is, and whether it is a significant achievement in it's own right.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

bobcatsquared
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/24/2014 6:18:12 AM

L.C. wrote:

Good question, Paul. As we know, mathematically it is impossible for all teams to be over .500 because for every team over .500, another must be under .500.

Not necessarily, LC. While it is true that for every win there is a loss, you can have one team several games over .500 with 1 or more under .500.

Simple example, a 4-team league with each team playing each other once. Team A goes 3-0 and the other three teams go 1-2. Or the reverse, one team goes 0-3 while the other three teams go 2-1.

Last Edited: 11/24/2014 6:19:33 AM by bobcatsquared

Pataskala
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RE: 6-6 and no bowl, good or bad thing?

Posted: 11/24/2014 6:48:10 AM

bobcatsquared wrote:

L.C. wrote:

Good question, Paul. As we know, mathematically it is impossible for all teams to be over .500 because for every team over .500, another must be under .500.

And as far as overall record is concerned, it gets even more out of kilter because nearly every team plays a 1AA school. That's how 70-some 1A schools wind up with winning records.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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