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Topic: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Topic: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/19/2014 5:55:30 PM

When I was a young man of high school and college age, Bill Hess was our head coach. I once thought that he was an old man who didn't know what he was doing and after a few bad to mediocre seasons I thought he should be fired. Then, the 1968 season happened, and we won all of our regular season games, were nationally ranked, and went to a bowl game. It was clear that I didn't know what I was talking about. Since Frank was hired, I have always seen a similarity in his approach to the game and Bill Hess coaching philosophy. Perhaps, neither are the world's greatest sports orators and both may have bland media personalities, but they are both very genuine -- what-you-see-is-what-you-get men. Further, Hess always stressed execution of the plays we practice and that our personnel are equipped to carry out rather than razzle dazzle type of gimmick plays. They both would throw these in every now and then, but not all that frequently. Like the direct-snap fourth down conversion yesterday. That's a two or three times a season play. Though the gambler in me always likes new and different exotic plays, and I sometimes get bored with BUTM type plays, I now realize that the coaches know more than I do and that sometimes the boring repetition today means better execution tomorrow, which can mean that next year's team -- like the team of '68 -- can be one of future legend. OK, you can now officially enroll me in the "Sunshine Boy" Club. Thanks for listening.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Mark Lembright '85
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Highland Heights, OH
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/19/2014 6:27:51 PM

You're OK, OCF!! I agree. Does that mean that the program doesn't need improvement? Heck no, I'm sure Coach Solich would be the first to admit such. However, in what most people would agree was going to be a rebuilding year, I'm certainly not going to be "that guy" demanding a coach be fired after having a .500 year. By that standard, Saulball better be better than .500 this year or people will be calling for his head too.

OhioStunter
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Member Since: 2/18/2005
Location: Chicago
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/19/2014 7:42:59 PM

I don't know that what I've seen in conference play signifies a program that is improving, nor where we want it to be:

2009 - 7 MAC wins
2010 - 6
2011 - 6
2012 - 4
2013 - 4
2014 - 3

For the last three seasons, we're just an average team in conference play.

Last Edited: 11/19/2014 7:44:22 PM by OhioStunter

Mark Lembright '85
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Highland Heights, OH
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/19/2014 9:32:38 PM

Well I see the basketball board is not much better. One loss to FGCU and the comments are already flying. Somewhere along the way Ohio alumni became a fickle bunch. Yikes.

L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,067

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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/19/2014 10:03:47 PM

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

Well I see the basketball board is not much better. One loss to FGCU and the comments are already flying. Somewhere along the way Ohio alumni became a fickle bunch. Yikes.

It's really quite a dramatic change from 10 years ago. The reason I became an Ohio fan in the first place was because this board was refreshingly different from boards like Ohio State or Nebraska. That's no longer true, however, and it's pretty much the same as everywhere else. On the positive side, at least it still has some fan interest, unlike most MAC boards that I have looked at, which have very little activity.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 6,913

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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/20/2014 8:55:21 AM

L.C. wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

Well I see the basketball board is not much better. One loss to FGCU and the comments are already flying. Somewhere along the way Ohio alumni became a fickle bunch. Yikes.

You think this board is anywhere near what Ohio State and Nebraska's are?

I'm not surprised in the change. The football program was so down in the dumps before Frank's arrival that it was easy to be apathetic and have a "not a big deal" attitude. Once you taste winning, you want more of it. It's not uncommon.

Casper71
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/20/2014 10:07:21 AM

Wow OCF, let's not get carried away here. I understand where you are coming from and have some general agreement. But, there are some BIG differences. You were young then. But, as I recall Bill Hess was, maybe, in his 50s...not 68 so he just seemed really old to you:)! Second, Bill Hess took OHIO to the small College Championship (again as I recall)in 1960. And, he won at least one MAC Championship in his tenure. On the other hand, I believe he went 0-10 or 1-10 at least once. So, yes, there are some similarities but some differences too. Overall, I think their win per centages at OHIO are very close so I will give you that! And, I do agree their "old style" is pretty similar. Bill Hess ran the ball with LaVeck and Houmard in my days at OHIO. And, he ran out of the I with a lead blocker. He also had a mobile QB that he rolled out a lot. We now run out of the pistol and use the QB draw.

Just my 2 cents. I like(d) and respect(ed) both of these coaches very much. I just thought when we hired FS, a guy who led a team to a big college National Championship game, we would have won one or two MAC titles in 10 years. I think FS started out on the path but the last 30+ games we seemed to have lost our way. That is what is frustrating to many on this board. I only hope we get back on the road and win a MACC game real quick. My years, like yours, are running out...

Last Edited: 11/20/2014 10:11:02 AM by Casper71

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/20/2014 10:27:19 AM

Casper, I understand what you are saying and I agree with many of your points. Yes, Hess did win the college division championship in 1960. I was there at every home game. What I'm trying to say was that by the mid '60s I was a member of a the "what have you done for me lately" club, which has a few adherents on this board. It was the wrong club to be a member of then, and it may turn out to be the dumb boys club again now. I was trying to impart to the young whippersnappers here a little of that old age wisdom that I might have acquired. Speaking of age, Frank is but a few months older than I. He had his 70th birthday back in August (I think it was), and mine is next week. So, yes, the clock is ticking . . .

Bobcatbob
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Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Coolville, OH
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/20/2014 10:51:44 AM

Too much credit and too much blame is showered on coaches. This is like a physics lesson: water tends to seek its own level.
If you look at more than a five or ten year span not a lot has changed in the football landscape in the last several decades. Florida State is a notable exception and other Florida schools, like U of M, come close. Otherwise, we're still talking about the same group of "leading" schools that were there in 1960, 1970, 1980, etc.

To blame Frank or any head coach for failing to permanently transform a program is to ignore everything else that affects that success. Thinks like institutional support, population shifts, the NCAA itself and so on.

Let's measure Frank on what Frank can control - recruiting, hiring and firing, individual readiness and game management. I agree that we're seeing some stagnation in those areas and a review is needed but that isn't a wholesale condemnation of Frank's contributions to Ohio.

Casper71
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/20/2014 3:19:46 PM

OCF, since I am only 65 I feel really young compared to you and FS!

And, I really do hope you are right and next year brings that elusive MACC...we'll see!

And bobcatBob you are absolutely right. Those top 20-30 programs are the same year in and year out and have been for decades (even I have made that point before). But, when you start looking at 50-1xx there is a ton of change year to year. I'd like to be one of those programs closer to 50 and not 100 right now and year in and year out.

Last Edited: 11/20/2014 3:23:01 PM by Casper71

L.C.
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Location: United States
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/20/2014 4:13:03 PM

Bobcatbob wrote:

...
To blame Frank or any head coach for failing to permanently transform a program is to ignore everything else that affects that success. Thinks like institutional support, population shifts, the NCAA itself and so on.
...

I do think that Solich has made some relatively permanent changes that do transform the program. As I have said before, I think his contribution in the area of program building and culture building exceed his contribution in terms of actual coaching. I think that culture change is reflected in the improved facilities, the attendance, and the whole atmosphere surrounding the games. It's even reflected in the negativity here on BA. If he hadn't raised the expectations of winning, who would have complained about a 6-6 season?

A more relevant question is, "is he done"? Also pertinent is, "When he can't take the program any further, will he know it is time to step down?"

My answer to the first of these questions is that, no, he's not done. If you look at the program, you see him still trying new ideas, not caught in a rut. They have new procedures for selecting Captains. They brought in various people last winter to advise them on better ways for "team-building". They tried a Navy Seal recruiter (now featured on the reality show "Dude, you're screwed"). The recruiting has improved the last couple years. All this doesn't add up to a stagnant program. It adds up to a program that is rebuilding from a core group of Seniors that left in 2011-2013, and which is now building a solid set of players that will lead the program from 2014-2017.

To the second question, my answer is that, yes, he'll know when to step down. I don't believe he's a Jo-Pa type. I think that while he's kind of mild-mannered and boring sounding at times if you listen only, if you look into his eyes you can see a competitive intensity. I have no doubt that he wants to win just as much as anyone on this board, and that if he reaches the conclusion that he won't continue winning, he'll step down. I also happen to think that he wants to follow his mentors, Bob Devaney, and Tom Osborne. Neither were like JoPa; both retired when on top. In Devaney's case, he won a National Championship in 1970 and 71, and then coached one more year and resigned after the 72 season. In Osborne's case, he won National Championships in 1994, 95, and 97, and then resigned. I think that Solich will win the MACC sometime in the 2015-2017 time period, and will retire after he does, probably at expiration of the current contract.

More importantly, I think that when he goes, he'll leave behind a strong culture. Hopefully that culture will be sufficient to attract a decent successor, and hopefully Schaus will choose wisely.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/20/2014 6:08:51 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Not disputing anything you say here, but I can name at least few programs that were top 30 back in the day -- even before your day and mine -- and are not any longer -- Tulane (played in a Rose Bowl and other top bowls), Army (several top five teams), Navy (also several top five finishes), Rice (finished in the top 20 nine times and as high as fifth), Duke (now making a comeback), Holy Cross (five top 20 finishes, as high as ninth, dropped football), several Ivy League teams, etc. Then there are teams like Baylor and TCU that were once top 30 material, dropped into oblivion, and are now back. Again, I agree that the stability of the top 30 is more salient than these outliers, but one should not ignore that there are some changes over the years.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/21/2014 3:54:01 AM

Monroe has a second job--providing Ant-Stupdity Service (he's an ASS)--so he can't respond now. This is a committee composed of Sarah Palin, Funky Winkerbean, and the goalposts which were torn down the last time that the Bobcats won the MAC title responding obo Monroe:

Any thread that mentions Bob Houmard is a good one.

Some of you old guys oughta stop being so old.

Oughtn't we to show a little creativity on the field (see the 'We Albin' thread) instead of showing it via new method of appointing captains, Navy SEAL training, advisors, recruiting improved from the abysmal that we did to ourselves 201 and, now, 2011.

The committee doesn't know--Maybe off-field creativity is the key. How about putting up a brick wall type of thing (Athens..bricks..get it?!) for the players to run through as they come out of the tunnel for the game.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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oucs 1986
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RE: Bobcat True Confession . . . Monroe Needs to Read This

Posted: 11/21/2014 10:12:57 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

What happened?

You spill a coke on this keyboard or something?

Go Bobcats!

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