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Topic:  Announced Attendance?

Topic:  Announced Attendance?
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Chicken George
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  Message Not Read  Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 1:10:29 AM 
Is this correct? 15,000+ announced? If so could you please send those people to my place of work to count my sales?

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=400548157
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 1:20:22 AM 
We've been down this road a million times. It's paid attendance. I've been told we have about 10,000 season ticket holders - add in students, tickets given to sponsors, etc. and you'd probably never see an attendance below 14K or so.
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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 8:14:37 AM 
I agree that this is a tiresome discussion, but I will say that it would help if the conference had uniform standards. Some schools (Western, NIU and maybe a few others) count butts in the seats while most simply count tickets sold. If everyone counted the same way maybe we could have fewer attendance discussions.

We are the most attendance-obsessed school in a conference of attendance-obsessed schools.
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 8:25:23 AM 
Dave Brandon would like a word with you.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 8:32:53 AM 
Chicken George wrote:
Is this correct? 15,000+ announced? If so could you please send those people to my place of work to count my sales?

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=400548157


You hit the nail on the head without realizing it. "Count my sales."

Ohio was counting tickets sales. I bought two tickets to this game when I purchased season tickets.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 8:36:33 AM 
catfan28 wrote:
We've been down this road a million times. It's paid attendance. I've been told we have about 10,000 season ticket holders - add in students, tickets given to sponsors, etc. and you'd probably never see an attendance below 14K or so.


Valid point 28. Just out of curiosity, how many folks do you think were actually there? On tv even counting the 110, there were no more than 1000 on the student side.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 8:37:43 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
Chicken George wrote:
Is this correct? 15,000+ announced? If so could you please send those people to my place of work to count my sales?

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=400548157


You hit the nail on the head without realizing it. "Count my sales."

Ohio was counting tickets sales. I bought two tickets to this game when I purchased season tickets.


If you price your product low enough, it's an easy sale. Thank goodness we have a student body willing to subsidize our ticket prices not only for athletics for all university related entertainment. I saw "Anything Goes" at Mem Aud last week and the ticket was less than $30. That same ticket the next night in Bowling Green, KY, was $60.

Last Edited: 11/19/2014 8:39:11 AM by Alan Swank
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 8:37:57 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
I agree that this is a tiresome discussion, but I will say that it would help if the conference had uniform standards. Some schools (Western, NIU and maybe a few others) count butts in the seats while most simply count tickets sold. If everyone counted the same way maybe we could have fewer attendance discussions.

We are the most attendance-obsessed school in a conference of attendance-obsessed schools.


This is the business aspect that fans and businesses can participate in. Season ticket holders from California, Missouri, Nebraska who might make one game. Tickets for Kids. Ticket sales is the point. Nebraska started a soldout streak in the sixties that has driven the program ever since. Many of those tickets go unused each week, but, they are sold. Many on the board wish the program was more like OSU or other big time programs. Careful what you wish for, fans at those programs have to pay nice premiums for season tickets.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 8:40:54 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
I agree that this is a tiresome discussion, but I will say that it would help if the conference had uniform standards. Some schools (Western, NIU and maybe a few others) count butts in the seats while most simply count tickets sold. If everyone counted the same way maybe we could have fewer attendance discussions.

We are the most attendance-obsessed school in a conference of attendance-obsessed schools.


Our obsession stems from the ad trumpeting how great our attendance is. Most people in America, if they read a box score, see an attendance number and assume that many people were at the game. There is no debate that we lead the MAC in ticket sales and people attending games (at least for Saturday games).
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catfan28
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 9:19:56 AM 
I'd say that there were about 1,000 actual students (not band) that came. Some may not have stayed very long, but I'd guess it was in that range. I'm less sure about the fan/season ticket holder side...I did not leave the confines of the Tower Club. :)

Either way, given the weather (which is the coldest game I can remember at Peden)...you can't tell me that any other MAC school would have drawn better. Midweek games are bad enough, but we got dealt a very tough hand this year. Driving rain for Buffalo and almost "O" wind chills last night.
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Mark Lembright '85
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Location: Highland Heights, OH
Post Count: 2,447

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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 9:30:36 AM 
Those 1,000 students are better than me! Not that we had Tuesday MACtion games back in the day, but if we did, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have trekked it all the way from one end of campus in subzero windchill weather to Peden to watch a weeknight football game. If anything, I probably would've been sidetracked at Court St. My hat's off to those 1,000 students!!

As a sidenote, what the **** was the Kent State football team trying to get to Buffalo last night for?!?! The news reported it wound up being an 11 hour drive. With 6 feet of snow in Buffalo, the MAC should have cancelled tonight's game.

Edit: Now the MAC has postponed the game. Kent State should be pissed since the MAC called the game AFTER they drove 11 hours in hazardous weather to get to Buffalo in the first place. Game should have been called yesterday as it was well known Buffalo was going to get hammered with snow. Now Kent has to drive back in bad roads AGAIN for nothing! Bad move by the MAC to wait so long!

Last Edited: 11/19/2014 4:55:13 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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Tyler
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Location: Arizona
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 9:59:33 AM 
Meanwhile, in Akron (announced attendance: 5,571):
http://imgur.com/a/3ktyb

Last Edited: 11/19/2014 10:07:56 AM by Tyler
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Maryland Bobcat
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Location: Annapolis, MD
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 10:03:41 AM 
catfan28 wrote:
I'd say that there were about 1,000 actual students (not band) that came. Some may not have stayed very long, but I'd guess it was in that range. I'm less sure about the fan/season ticket holder side...I did not leave the confines of the Tower Club. :)

Either way, given the weather (which is the coldest game I can remember at Peden)...you can't tell me that any other MAC school would have drawn better. Midweek games are bad enough, but we got dealt a very tough hand this year. Driving rain for Buffalo and almost "O" wind chills last night.


This is the very problem with mid-week games, though. It's a giant risk to attendance should the weather not be absolutely perfect. Would it be cold on Saturday, too? Sure, but there's a big difference in going sitting in the cold in the daylight hours and at night. Throw in the weeknight issue and it's too easy to stay at home.

I know it's a tired debate, but the "MACtion" games for us this year were a total bust. I know I had several texts last night joking about the attendance from non-Bobcat watchers. This was a good matchup - one of the best teams to play in Peden the past couple of years - and we had ZERO home field advantage. I'd like to be able to go to a good late-season MAC game, but living six hours away it's out of the question on a Tuesday night. My home games are limited to the first half of the season.

I really feel bad for those who work so hard who deserve to play in front of fans - the seniors on this team, especially. The 110 practices very hard to learn new halftime shows, as do the cheerleaders/dance team only to play in front of an empty stadium. They all deserve better. I know it's money, and we'd play at 1AM if it meant getting on tv, but is it really worth it? Does anyone not currently associated with the university look at that and think we care about our football program? Can that really help recruiting more than it hurts it?

On a side note congrats to the team for playing a great game despite not having that emotional boost from the fans. Well done.

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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,839

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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 10:26:04 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:

If you price your product low enough, it's an easy sale. Thank goodness we have a student body willing to subsidize our ticket prices not only for athletics for all university related entertainment. I saw "Anything Goes" at Mem Aud last week and the ticket was less than $30. That same ticket the next night in Bowling Green, KY, was $60.


I know the student fee is one of your favorite axes to grind, Alan, but I see the fee as a good thing. It's part of the cost of a rich and fulfilling campus life. One can debate its size and how it's allocated, but without the fee, there would be no shows at Mem Aud at any price. There'd be no student-run media (Post, radio stations, TV, etc.). Many clubs would be gone. And to the delight of Dr. Vedder there'd be no athletics either.

The problem with looking at the fee like an economist is that a university is not a corporation. It's OK to have some expenses that don't turn a profit or benefit every single student.

If you started ruthlessly looking at every expense (which is happening at many schools) you'd soon be left with a campus devoid of a lot of the educational opportunities, vibrancy, diversity, and culture.
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shabamon
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Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 6,089

Status: Online
  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 10:58:05 AM 
Maryland Bobcat wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
I'd say that there were about 1,000 actual students (not band) that came. Some may not have stayed very long, but I'd guess it was in that range. I'm less sure about the fan/season ticket holder side...I did not leave the confines of the Tower Club. :)

Either way, given the weather (which is the coldest game I can remember at Peden)...you can't tell me that any other MAC school would have drawn better. Midweek games are bad enough, but we got dealt a very tough hand this year. Driving rain for Buffalo and almost "O" wind chills last night.


This is the very problem with mid-week games, though. It's a giant risk to attendance should the weather not be absolutely perfect. Would it be cold on Saturday, too? Sure, but there's a big difference in going sitting in the cold in the daylight hours and at night. Throw in the weeknight issue and it's too easy to stay at home.

I know it's a tired debate, but the "MACtion" games for us this year were a total bust. I know I had several texts last night joking about the attendance from non-Bobcat watchers. This was a good matchup - one of the best teams to play in Peden the past couple of years - and we had ZERO home field advantage. I'd like to be able to go to a good late-season MAC game, but living six hours away it's out of the question on a Tuesday night. My home games are limited to the first half of the season.

I really feel bad for those who work so hard who deserve to play in front of fans - the seniors on this team, especially. The 110 practices very hard to learn new halftime shows, as do the cheerleaders/dance team only to play in front of an empty stadium. They all deserve better. I know it's money, and we'd play at 1AM if it meant getting on tv, but is it really worth it? Does anyone not currently associated with the university look at that and think we care about our football program? Can that really help recruiting more than it hurts it?

On a side note congrats to the team for playing a great game despite not having that emotional boost from the fans. Well done.



For those reasons, I hope Saturday's WMU-CMU game is a sellout. A November rivalry game on a Saturday with so much on the line for both teams is a rare treat.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 11:17:55 AM 
Maryland Bobcat wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
I'd say that there were about 1,000 actual students (not band) that came. Some may not have stayed very long, but I'd guess it was in that range. I'm less sure about the fan/season ticket holder side...I did not leave the confines of the Tower Club. :)

Either way, given the weather (which is the coldest game I can remember at Peden)...you can't tell me that any other MAC school would have drawn better. Midweek games are bad enough, but we got dealt a very tough hand this year. Driving rain for Buffalo and almost "O" wind chills last night.


This is the very problem with mid-week games, though. It's a giant risk to attendance should the weather not be absolutely perfect. Would it be cold on Saturday, too? Sure, but there's a big difference in going sitting in the cold in the daylight hours and at night. Throw in the weeknight issue and it's too easy to stay at home.

I know it's a tired debate, but the "MACtion" games for us this year were a total bust. I know I had several texts last night joking about the attendance from non-Bobcat watchers. This was a good matchup - one of the best teams to play in Peden the past couple of years - and we had ZERO home field advantage. I'd like to be able to go to a good late-season MAC game, but living six hours away it's out of the question on a Tuesday night. My home games are limited to the first half of the season.

I really feel bad for those who work so hard who deserve to play in front of fans - the seniors on this team, especially. The 110 practices very hard to learn new halftime shows, as do the cheerleaders/dance team only to play in front of an empty stadium. They all deserve better. I know it's money, and we'd play at 1AM if it meant getting on tv, but is it really worth it? Does anyone not currently associated with the university look at that and think we care about our football program? Can that really help recruiting more than it hurts it?

On a side note congrats to the team for playing a great game despite not having that emotional boost from the fans. Well done.



What you stated is why I think they need to move the home team back to the Tower side. When the students don't happen to be there but the regulars are, they need that support right behind them. It's time to change this.
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 11:22:21 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:


What you stated is why I think they need to move the home team back to the Tower side. When the students don't happen to be there but the regulars are, they need that support right behind them. It's time to change this.


Students came out much better than the regulars last night. Old folks don't like cold :)
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Tyler
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Location: Arizona
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 11:38:52 AM 
Maryland Bobcat wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
I'd say that there were about 1,000 actual students (not band) that came. Some may not have stayed very long, but I'd guess it was in that range. I'm less sure about the fan/season ticket holder side...I did not leave the confines of the Tower Club. :)

Either way, given the weather (which is the coldest game I can remember at Peden)...you can't tell me that any other MAC school would have drawn better. Midweek games are bad enough, but we got dealt a very tough hand this year. Driving rain for Buffalo and almost "O" wind chills last night.

I really feel bad for those who work so hard who deserve to play in front of fans - the seniors on this team, especially. The 110 practices very hard to learn new halftime shows, as do the cheerleaders/dance team only to play in front of an empty stadium. They all deserve better. I know it's money, and we'd play at 1AM if it meant getting on tv, but is it really worth it? Does anyone not currently associated with the university look at that and think we care about our football program? Can that really help recruiting more than it hurts it?


The 110 recycled the Justin Timberlake halftime show from earlier this season, so at least they were smart and didn't learn a new show to perform in front on 1,000 people.

I feel bad for the seniors, but the way I see it, that crowd was still bigger than the largest crowds most student-athletes compete in front of. Plus, having a game on national TV means friends and family can watch them play.
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Tyler
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 11:41:36 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Maryland Bobcat wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
I'd say that there were about 1,000 actual students (not band) that came. Some may not have stayed very long, but I'd guess it was in that range. I'm less sure about the fan/season ticket holder side...I did not leave the confines of the Tower Club. :)

Either way, given the weather (which is the coldest game I can remember at Peden)...you can't tell me that any other MAC school would have drawn better. Midweek games are bad enough, but we got dealt a very tough hand this year. Driving rain for Buffalo and almost "O" wind chills last night.


This is the very problem with mid-week games, though. It's a giant risk to attendance should the weather not be absolutely perfect. Would it be cold on Saturday, too? Sure, but there's a big difference in going sitting in the cold in the daylight hours and at night. Throw in the weeknight issue and it's too easy to stay at home.

I know it's a tired debate, but the "MACtion" games for us this year were a total bust. I know I had several texts last night joking about the attendance from non-Bobcat watchers. This was a good matchup - one of the best teams to play in Peden the past couple of years - and we had ZERO home field advantage. I'd like to be able to go to a good late-season MAC game, but living six hours away it's out of the question on a Tuesday night. My home games are limited to the first half of the season.

I really feel bad for those who work so hard who deserve to play in front of fans - the seniors on this team, especially. The 110 practices very hard to learn new halftime shows, as do the cheerleaders/dance team only to play in front of an empty stadium. They all deserve better. I know it's money, and we'd play at 1AM if it meant getting on tv, but is it really worth it? Does anyone not currently associated with the university look at that and think we care about our football program? Can that really help recruiting more than it hurts it?

On a side note congrats to the team for playing a great game despite not having that emotional boost from the fans. Well done.



What you stated is why I think they need to move the home team back to the Tower side. When the students don't happen to be there but the regulars are, they need that support right behind them. It's time to change this.


Isn't the home team on the student side because of verbal altercations between the students and the visitors' bench?
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GoCats105
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Location: Seattle, WA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 11:56:16 AM 
Tyler wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Maryland Bobcat wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
I'd say that there were about 1,000 actual students (not band) that came. Some may not have stayed very long, but I'd guess it was in that range. I'm less sure about the fan/season ticket holder side...I did not leave the confines of the Tower Club. :)

Either way, given the weather (which is the coldest game I can remember at Peden)...you can't tell me that any other MAC school would have drawn better. Midweek games are bad enough, but we got dealt a very tough hand this year. Driving rain for Buffalo and almost "O" wind chills last night.


This is the very problem with mid-week games, though. It's a giant risk to attendance should the weather not be absolutely perfect. Would it be cold on Saturday, too? Sure, but there's a big difference in going sitting in the cold in the daylight hours and at night. Throw in the weeknight issue and it's too easy to stay at home.

I know it's a tired debate, but the "MACtion" games for us this year were a total bust. I know I had several texts last night joking about the attendance from non-Bobcat watchers. This was a good matchup - one of the best teams to play in Peden the past couple of years - and we had ZERO home field advantage. I'd like to be able to go to a good late-season MAC game, but living six hours away it's out of the question on a Tuesday night. My home games are limited to the first half of the season.

I really feel bad for those who work so hard who deserve to play in front of fans - the seniors on this team, especially. The 110 practices very hard to learn new halftime shows, as do the cheerleaders/dance team only to play in front of an empty stadium. They all deserve better. I know it's money, and we'd play at 1AM if it meant getting on tv, but is it really worth it? Does anyone not currently associated with the university look at that and think we care about our football program? Can that really help recruiting more than it hurts it?

On a side note congrats to the team for playing a great game despite not having that emotional boost from the fans. Well done.



What you stated is why I think they need to move the home team back to the Tower side. When the students don't happen to be there but the regulars are, they need that support right behind them. It's time to change this.


Isn't the home team on the student side because of verbal altercations between the students and the visitors' bench?


I think that was the case, but I don't know how bad it really was.
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87OU Alum
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 12:38:32 PM 
I thought Frank changed it in his second or third year, so that the team was closer to the students.
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Panda
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 1:06:11 PM 
MAC Conference established a rule that the home team must be in front of student section. Therefore, opponents are on the opposite side. Evidently there were problems at a venue??

Panda

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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 1:08:05 PM 
If I'm not mistaken the rule was made because of Ohio.
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jpmo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 1:36:12 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:

If you price your product low enough, it's an easy sale. Thank goodness we have a student body willing to subsidize our ticket prices not only for athletics for all university related entertainment. I saw "Anything Goes" at Mem Aud last week and the ticket was less than $30. That same ticket the next night in Bowling Green, KY, was $60.


I know the student fee is one of your favorite axes to grind, Alan, but I see the fee as a good thing. It's part of the cost of a rich and fulfilling campus life. One can debate its size and how it's allocated, but without the fee, there would be no shows at Mem Aud at any price. There'd be no student-run media (Post, radio stations, TV, etc.). Many clubs would be gone. And to the delight of Dr. Vedder there'd be no athletics either.

The problem with looking at the fee like an economist is that a university is not a corporation. It's OK to have some expenses that don't turn a profit or benefit every single student.

If you started ruthlessly looking at every expense (which is happening at many schools) you'd soon be left with a campus devoid of a lot of the educational opportunities, vibrancy, diversity, and culture.


I'm fairly certain that Dr. Vedder would be perfectly happy with this student fee (and athletics left as is) as long as the professor/administrator ratio returned to pre 1990 levels (with the elimination of layers of administration) and administrator pay returning to pre 1990 levels normalized for inflation. The savings in tuition would more than make up for the fee and students would be immensely helped by walking away with less debt.

You don't have to outrun the bear...just the other guy.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Announced Attendance?
   Posted: 11/19/2014 3:46:19 PM 
jpmo wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:

If you price your product low enough, it's an easy sale. Thank goodness we have a student body willing to subsidize our ticket prices not only for athletics for all university related entertainment. I saw "Anything Goes" at Mem Aud last week and the ticket was less than $30. That same ticket the next night in Bowling Green, KY, was $60.


I know the student fee is one of your favorite axes to grind, Alan, but I see the fee as a good thing. It's part of the cost of a rich and fulfilling campus life. One can debate its size and how it's allocated, but without the fee, there would be no shows at Mem Aud at any price. There'd be no student-run media (Post, radio stations, TV, etc.). Many clubs would be gone. And to the delight of Dr. Vedder there'd be no athletics either.

The problem with looking at the fee like an economist is that a university is not a corporation. It's OK to have some expenses that don't turn a profit or benefit every single student.

If you started ruthlessly looking at every expense (which is happening at many schools) you'd soon be left with a campus devoid of a lot of the educational opportunities, vibrancy, diversity, and culture.


I'm fairly certain that Dr. Vedder would be perfectly happy with this student fee (and athletics left as is) as long as the professor/administrator ratio returned to pre 1990 levels (with the elimination of layers of administration) and administrator pay returning to pre 1990 levels normalized for inflation. The savings in tuition would more than make up for the fee and students would be immensely helped by walking away with less debt.


Bingo and I would second that.
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