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Topic: RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Topic: RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

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bobcat2nc
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/20/2014 11:16:32 AM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

Ohio outplayed a superior Northern Illinois and would have won if not for having more turnovers and two missed field goals (not a fault of coaching). While I'm sure you can pick apart the coaching and find errors, clearly something about the coaching was good for that to have happened.

To repeat...we would be 11-0 if we had scored more points than each of our opponents this year. However, we are 5-6. Why do we keep saying we would have won except for not winning? Like regular basketball threads..one changed play changes everything from that moment forward. We cannot assume that everything else would happen the way it did if that one play was different.

I do agree that we are at a better place than we were BFS but we are not at the place we expected to be. I also agree that we have improved this year. I still do not apologize for not being satisfied with where we are right now. (the fact that we have improved and are improving late in the year is refreshing because that has not been the case every year...I know, I know injuries, bad breaks, and all the other cited reasons are noted but limping towards the finish was getting old)

My point has always been that if a team has the same issues over and over again that cause losses (fumbles, stupid penalties, bad play calls, etc) then you cannot disregard the fact that the system has some flaws and the system is the sole responsibility of the head coach.

To summarize. I agree there is improvement. I think there is need for more improvement. The responsibility for the need to improve is on the Head Coach and the responsibility for the actual improvement lies with the Head Coach.
That is not unwarranted criticism, in my opinion. I really hope that we are not having the same shoulda, woulda, coulda discussions next year at this time.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/20/2014 4:23:00 PM

shabamon wrote:

L.C. wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

I don't think the cold was a factor in yesterday's game at all. Both of yazdanis kicks were just not well struck and you could see that at liftoff.

The ball gets a lot harder when it's cold, and I think all kickers lose range in the cold. I agree with Frank's assessment that he shouldn't have even tried them from that range in that temperature.

Baseball announcers talk about this all the time in July and August. Scorching weather facilitates the long ball.

yes, the ball travels better in warmer air, but those were just weak kicks. several kickoffs were able to get close to or into the endzone still, and NIU's punter had no trouble booming the crap out of the ball, with two 50+ punts, and averaging 43 while still dropping 3 inside the 20. MB could only muster a 35 average on three kicks. Yazdani has put up fairly pedestrian numbers this year, and these kicks are a continuation of that trend. the foot-striking-ball aspects of the game Tuesday did not help us.

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/20/2014 4:58:34 PM

We played well we just didn't have the experience to win. Next year close losses like this will turn into wins. If we hit a FG and don't fumble that last drive we have a W. I'm not worried about the direction of this team at all. Hopefully we can get a W against Miami. Make a bowl, and get some momentum for next year where we should be a very good team.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/20/2014 6:11:06 PM

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

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L.C.
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/20/2014 6:14:42 PM

Casper71 wrote:

...Problem, is, either nobody knows what "IT" is or they cannot correct whatever "IT" is.

The reason that I see things totally differently is that I think most people are looking at multiple separate problems and erroneously combining them into a single one. I see four separate problems:
1. The abnormal injuries that eventually broke the back of the team in 2012, a team that started very strong, but after something like 19 season ending injuries, they were not the same.
2. The "it" that affected the 2013 team. That "it" may or may not have been precipitated by the injuries the prior year, but it certainly affected the team attitude in 2013, especially towards the end of the season.
3. Recruiting misses in 2010 and 2011
4. The rebuilding year in 2014.

Problems 1 and 2 are probably somewhat related. Problem #4 has nothing to do with the first two, but is related to/caused by problem #3.

I see things differently than many here because I see problems 1 and 2 as something that happened in the past, and something that is behind the team. Those players are gone, and their problems are gone with them. Therefore I separate that period as the past, and don't see it as relevant at all in in evaluating the 2014 team. I don't see the time period of "the last 30 games" as a useful period at all because it is a time period that includes several totally separate and independent situations.

Instead, for me the relevant period is 2014 alone. To me, it's all new players, and an all-new team with an all-new defense and an all-new attitude. Going into this year I expected a rebuilding year. I expected to see this team struggle, but battle, and to win some along the way. Indeed, this team has struggled a bit more than I expected, but only marginally so. Before the season I picked them to beat WMU because I was wrong about how good WMU would be, and then I expected them to beat NIU, which they very nearly did. Thus, yes, they are slightly below my expectations, but not tremendously below them.

My other expectation for 2014 was to see was a team that improved from game to game, and there I'm not disappointed at all. I expect them to improve again this week, and to improve more by next fall. Next year will not be a rebuilding year, so I expect Ohio be be a much better team next year than they were this year. I think that when that happens, a lot of this will die back down.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bcat2
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/20/2014 8:32:47 PM

Problem I see is a lack of appreciation of a really well contested game by two teams that fought hard for four quarters. I don't recall a single expression of congratulations toward NIU. All I recall was a crowd eager to get right to the blame game. After senior night some time might have been spent on those who just played their last game at home for Bobcats. I hope the team receives appreciation from some quarter though I their "fan" site might be the place.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/21/2014 3:40:52 AM

Another perspective:

We don't have enough experience in our 11th game of the year? Note: not all of our guys are first year players so it's more than 11 games for most.

Our decades-experienced head coach (note: Nebraska and Ohio are 'winter weather' states) doesn't realize until after the game that long FG tries may be inappropriate?

Injuries--really wanna play that excuse card?

Who was in charge, who could have intervened to stop the 'it' of 2013? Does that person have many years of experience such that he should have reacted better to this?

Who is responsible for the recruiting gaps of 2010 and 2011? Hey, it used to be just a gap in 2010--when did 2011 get added?

Don't you guys get it? The problem is that there are so many things that are so easy to get right that we are getting wrong. Basic stuff. And the lack of things that we are doing well (besides some of the basics) is notable. May it change next year? Could happen. But right now--in the middle of another year of no wins against MAC teams with winning records--we have problems.

Nothing wrong with being positive. But to be comfortable that there's pretty much just positive, on-track stuff here--that view befuddles me. Befuddles, I tell you.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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L.C.
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/21/2014 11:33:56 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

We don't have enough experience in our 11th game of the year? ...

If you can't see the difference between how they played against NIU and the games early in the year, there is nothing I can say.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Injuries--really wanna play that excuse card?

For 2012? Again, if you can't see that when you lose 19 players for the year (basically an entire team), it's going to effect you, there is nothing I can say. Personally I think 9 wins with that many injuries is pretty amazing. Compare it to 1965.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Who was in charge, who could have intervened to stop the 'it' of 2013? Does that person have many years of experience such that he should have reacted better to this?

Was there a better way it could have been handled? I don't know. They did manage
a winning season and a bowl despite the issues, so it wasn't a total disaster.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Who is responsible for the recruiting gaps of 2010 and 2011? Hey, it used to be just a gap in 2010--when did 2011 get added?

There were 2 new recruiting coordinators in 2 years. Sure, that's the coaches fault, and it was unfortunate. There would always have been a dip here for rebuilding, but it wouldn't have been a big deal had it not been for the other issues. As for adding 2011, it wasn't nearly as bad as 2010, but it did include a large number of players who have never played.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Don't you guys get it? The problem is that there are so many things that are so easy to get right that we are getting wrong.

There was no way to get around the injury problems of 2012, which led indirectly to the problems of 2013, problems that were not "easy", and problems that I'm not sure were solvable. As for recruiting coordinator, is it easy to get the right one? Solich has a pretty good track record on hires, there, I think. His first recruiting coordinator ever (1997) was a guy named Lance Leipold who is now the head Coach at Wisconsin-Whitewater, and is the fastest coach ever to 100 wins (100-6, five national championships in Division III since 2007).

Yes there were some issues, but I think they have been fixed.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Nothing wrong with being positive. But to be comfortable that there's pretty much just positive, on-track stuff here--that view befuddles me. Befuddles, I tell you.

The thing is that there is a time lag. There was a problem in 2010, and a lesser one in 2011. By the time the fans see it, it is 2014, and it has been long since corrected.

To me the key is to try to look forward, not back:
1. Has the recruiting issue been fixed? How are the current recruits? Solich labelled the 2013 class his best ever, and then said that the 2014 class was even better. It was so that an incredible 9-10 of them played as true freshmen, and they looked darn good on the field. Guys like Walker, White, and Brunis looked explosive. Guys like Pruehs, Lowery, and McCray looked solid up front. When I look forward, not back, the future looks bright.
2. Has the "it" problem been fixed? Yes, it seems to have been. Unlike last year, this team seems to be very united. They play hard to the end. Looking forward, I also see steps put in place to try to prevent "it" from happening again.
3. Yes, the players were young this year, and didn't look great at the beginning of the year, but are they improving? As I said above, if you can't see that, there isn't much I can say, but I think the improvement is clear.

When you look backwards, you see some problems, some perhaps preventable, others not preventable. When you look forward you see that each of them has been addressed.

Last Edited: 11/21/2014 11:37:30 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/21/2014 1:10:36 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

We should be able to hit a 46 yard field goal no matter the weather. L.C. addressed the rest so I'll leave it alone but If you don't have faith in one of the best kickers in the country to hit a 46 yarder when in his first game this season he hit it by plenty. Then what do you have faith in? There is no way you can criticize that play call given his track record kicking.

perimeterpost
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/21/2014 1:16:57 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

How many times did the NIU QB pick up a 1st down with his legs when they needed it in key situations? I know of at least three that helped keep drives alive.

The NIU QBs ran the ball 6 times on 3rd down, successfully converting 4 times. One of those drives resulted in a score. Vick ran the ball 4 times on 3rd down, successfully converting it 1 time. QBs are also judged by their ability to throw the ball, on 3rd down passes NIU QBs were successful 1 of 3 times, Vick was successful 4 of 6 times and a TD.

GoCats105 wrote:

How many times did Vick throw into coverage? I know at least the one that got picked off, another down by the goal line where the receiver was covered and all of the deep throws where luckily NIU got called for P.I.

The answer is Vick threw into coverage every time, 28 times to be exact. Of those 28 throws 19 were caught, 3 resulted in 15yd PI penalties, and 1 was picked off. Vick threw 5 incomplete passes all night.

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L.C.
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/21/2014 1:55:08 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

When there is a penalty, the original play is not included in the stats. Thus Vick actually threw the ball 31 times, resulting in 19 completions, 8 incompletions, 3 penalties, and an interception.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

L.C.
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/21/2014 2:21:54 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

... Hey, it used to be just a gap in 2010--when did 2011 get added?...

If you go to the recruiting board and look at the pinned thread "Ohio 2015 Recruiting Commits", you asked me on 10/3 for an evaluation of recruiting classes, and I posted my evaluations back to 2006:

LC wrote:

2006 (Germano) - 2.68 (Price, Hodge, Luchsinger, Posey, McCrae, Williamson, Garrett, S. Jackson)
2007 (Germano) - 2.65 (Keller, Flading, Dunlop, Strum, Brazill, Harden, Davidson, C. Meyers)
2008 (Germano) - 2.93 (Huynh, Carlotta, Carrie, Weller, Herman, Thompson, Lewis, Futrell, Moore, Tafua)
2009 (Germano) - 2.94 (Lechner, Hughes, Fortune, Woseley, Allen, Dovell, C. Jones, Foster, McGrath)
2010 (Isphoding) - 2.15 (Carpenter, Cochran, Krstoff, Ingol)
2011 (Haines) - 2.59 (Russell, L. Smith, Crutcher, McQueen, Wells, Vick, Purdum, Jov. Johnson, Bass, Lucas)
2012 (Haines) - 2.86 (Gibbons, Watson, Laseak, Patterson, B. Brown, Tor. Davis, Reid)
2013 (Haines) - 3.16 (Wood, Sayles, Poling, Basham, Mangen, Cope, McLeod)
2014 (Haines) - 3.40 (Lowery, McCray, Walker, Brunson, White, Preuhs, Brunis, Nelson, Langenkamp)

2010 was simply bad. 2011 was not that much different than 2006 or 2007, but not up to the standards of 2008 and 2009. Had it followed another decent class, it would have been fine, but since it was following a small, weak class, it needed to be extra good, and it wasn't. Note the pattern above, by the way. Under Germano, each year he got better. Similarly, each year Haines has improved.

FWIW, these numbers are just my person evaluations, and are not etched in stone, so they change as time passes. My current numbers are slightly different for 2011 and beyond since the players are still playing. It now goes 2.15, 2.55, 2.79, 3.00, 3.44.

The 2008-2009 classes carried Ohio to great success in 2011 and through the start of 2012 before injuries took a toll. I think that the classes of 2013-2014 will be better than those classes.

By the way, I don't deserve any points for being able to look back now at the 2010 class and see what a waste it was, and how it has hurt the team this year; anyone could do that. One thing that is a shame is that, with the ancient history of BA lost, we can't go back in time to February 2010 and find the true seers, the ones that said "this is not a good recruiting class, and we'll pay the price in a few years". If I had to take a guess, I'd say Casper or Paul would be the most likely ones to have said that.

Last Edited: 11/21/2014 2:28:49 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bcat2
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/21/2014 2:44:53 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

How many times did the NIU QB pick up a 1st down with his legs when they needed it in key situations? I know of at least three that helped keep drives alive.

GoCats105 wrote:

perimeterpost, you have a good way of completing a picture. Vick did very well against a good NIU defense. After the game he was very displeased with the INT. With experience he keeps getting better and better. Not sure what some folks expect. He has still only started a few games. Did you here how RGIII's coach assessed his last performance?

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/21/2014 2:53:39 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Sorry. Apparently, none of the above holds any weight or truth.

I apologize for thinking this way.

Anyone know when the Ohio ticket office will start selling tickets to see Ohio in the MAC title game this year?

Sean Gallagher
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/22/2014 12:31:00 AM

Hate to be politically correct, but you're all right in your observations. That said, I'm still a fan! Go OU!

Beat Miami and I'm happy and (bowl or no bowl) we can discuss next year. Again, Go OU!

Last Edited: 11/22/2014 1:24:07 AM by Sean Gallagher

Paul Graham
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RE: Good Team, Unlucky Injuries, Bad Coaching

Posted: 11/23/2014 1:34:10 PM

L.C. wrote:

If I had to take a guess, I'd say Casper or Paul would be the most likely ones to have said that.

I also predicted the housing market would collapse...but that was also lost in the BA crash!

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