BobcatAttack.com - For Fans of Ohio University Sports

Welcome Guest!
Create an Account

site search

where to watch

about us

advertise with us

help

BobcatAttack.com Message Board

Ohio Football

Topic: New assistant coaches

Topic: New assistant coaches

Author

Message

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,067

Status: Offline

New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/26/2014 7:06:29 PM

Now that we are 3/4 of the way through the season, I thought it's time to ask a question about the new assistant coaches, Isphording and Johnson. Clearly two of the problem spots for Ohio this year have been the offensive line, and the QB spot. I think that on offense the WR play has been generally good, and the same holds for the TE spot, and really I don't have any issue with the running backs, either - I think that the running problems have been due to one of a couple things, line blocking, or audibles (or lack of them), and not the play of the RB themselves.

To what extent do people think that the OL and QB problems are due to the new coaches? Due to a change in coaches, and the players having to learn new ways to do things? Or, due to the old coaches leaving the cupboard bare?

FWIW, the new coaches may not have their new jobs long. Vanderbilt has been very, very bad this year. They have only 2 wins, a 34-31 win over U.Mass early, and a 21-20 win over Charleston Southern.

I think it's too early to have an opinion on the new coaches, and I'll have to wait to see the progress next year. I do think that the prior coaches definitely left the cupboard bare. Remember that the position coach has a lot of say on who gets recruited for their position.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

MonroeClassmate
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2010
Post Count: 2,003

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/26/2014 8:29:27 PM

QB Coach--there appears a different style of ball handling by the QB's.

I have a special needs daughter, she can throw a football pretty well. She has been to many games watching her brother and sister in the 110.

When she throws a pass in the back yard it is always preceded with her holding out the ball as if to hand off that she learned watching Theo, Boo and TT. She thinks that before you throw the ball you have to play action like that--darnedest thing she picked up from the stands.

These QB's would hold that pose long--perhaps it is a pass read option. But today I don't see that exaggerated style. I also do not see the QB's riding the ball into the belly on the read option. Ball handling skills seem undeveloped by our QB's--is that a lack skill and dramatics on their part or a change of style? None of them would fake the cameraman out like you see on televised games by some QB's that take great pride in the ball handling skills to add deception to the offense's tools.

BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,478

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/26/2014 8:33:59 PM

Johnson is doing a great job! Look at what he had to work with, thin depth and youth. He hasa proven track record and the kids are getting better!

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,067

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/26/2014 9:05:15 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Johnson is doing a great job! Look at what he had to work with, thin depth and youth. He hasa proven track record and the kids are getting better!

I don't disagree with that. Clearly he didn't have much to work with. I just think that at the OL position it will take longer than at most positions. Seeing progress in <1 year at OL isn't easy unless you are looking at slow motion instant replays of the individual linemen. No matter how well he coaches, an 18 year old is still 18. The best offensive linemen are 4th and 5th year upperclassmen.

I never had a real issue with Lightner, but it always seemed like he was trying to scramble to make a line, and never had built up depth. What I really don't understand is that normally OL is a position where walkons often make an impact, and if you have a strong OL walkon program you always have 4th and 5th year players. Unless Bales started a game or two, the last OL that started for Ohio was David Shelby, a walkon under Knorr. Here are the walkons under Solich, most of them under Lightner:
Pisano
Fosnaugh
Rauen
Batsakes
K Davis
Kenner
JD Bales
Crane
Fain
Stump
Everhart
Pritchard
Adams
Alcorn
Schilke
B. Williams
Noltemeyer
Alcorn
Pauley

Of these, Only JD Bales played regularly, and Everhart has played some, and earned a scholarship. Adams may have, too. Most other positions have done a good job of building a strong group of walkons, where they are there to fall back on when there is an injury or dept problem.

I don't know why Ohio hasn't had the quality walkons at OL that they have had at other positions. I do know that walkons can have a significant impact at OL. Nebraksa won national championships in the 90s, and so far as I know, had at least 1-2 walkons starting for them on the line, most years.

In any case, I'm not blaming Johnson for the issues at OL. He inherited very little, and has to build the line back up.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/26/2014 9:16:59 PM

So, the worse we get blow'd out, the better it is and the more we're improving.

I love this.

If you kinda come in a whole lot more than somewhat optimal on a big work project, tell the boss that you are improving and deserve a raise!

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/26/2014 10:35:15 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

. . . If you kinda come in a whole lot more than somewhat optimal on a big work project, tell the boss that you are improving and deserve a raise

It ain't that simple, Monroe. It kind of depends on the project and how progress is evaluated. Sometimes there are setbacks from an original plan and it's necessary to make modifications with the desired results not coming about in the target year. If your boss can be shown that progress is being made and that the desired result is likely to happen if the contract is extended another year, you might get a contract extension and a raise. Note that in this case the evaluation needs to be made by someone who knows the business and can reasonably evaluate whether or not real progress is being made -- not by someone in another line of work who tries to impose the standards of his or her profession on another quite different profession.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Campus Flow
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,952

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/26/2014 11:00:33 PM

I have wondered the same today about whether the talent level on the coaching staff is as high as it was when Frank first rolled into Ohio. Lightner, Mason, Gdowski are all coaching now at Vanderbilt. Frank's year of discernment where he traveled around the country to observe the latest offensive trends is now 10 years ago. Pete Germano who Tom Boeh said was a great coach is now gone. Its not just Frank who is old here, the average age of the staff is 44. Ten years ago the average age of the staff was 34.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 12:04:31 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

. . . If you kinda come in a whole lot more than somewhat optimal on a big work project, tell the boss that you are improving and deserve a raise

Please. Stop it. Let's just agree to disagree. There's significantly only one scoreboard here. And we have beaten very few good teams and gotten thrashed by a lot of not-really-very-great teams lately. Here's six in the last year: beefs, bg2, cmu, kents, wmu. They beat us solidly and I don't think that anyone would claim that they were great teams ('cept maybe bg last year was decent and they destroyed us in 6 minutes). No; trying, haven't quit, youth, injuries, blah, blah, blah don't gain any traction here. Can't Solich and staff overcome those a wee bit so that we don't get blown out by middle-of-the MAC teams?

And, you're better than the 'we can't know as much as the coaches' card. Anyone who thinks our conception of offense is above the very bottom of college football is not very observant.

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 10:47:39 AM

I should stop it? Am I the one jumping into nearly every thread saying exactly the same thing about how bad our coaching is, how "we ablin," and how we need more imagination in play calling, etc. Some of your points are good ones, some are not so good, but none of them are worth repeating ad nauseam. You sound like a broken record. So, I'll tell you what. I'll "stop it" if you will! ;-)

Paul Graham
General User

Member Since: 1/18/2005
Location: The Plains, OH
Post Count: 1,424

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 12:58:28 PM

Isophording is an example of our low expectations and an unwillingness to shake things up. We have an opening for a CO-OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR and QB coach. Getting a coordinator job seems like a nice career step for someone and should attract some good folks.

Did we conduct a national search? The answer is almost certainly NO.

Instead we settled on a guy who has had the following experience (in reverse chronological order):

Toledo
Ohio
Eastern Michigan
Wittenberg
Colorado School of Mines
Fort Hays State
Hanover College

This guy has NEVER COACHED COLLEGE FOOTBALL AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. He's never been involved with it outside of the MAC. And he cut his teeth in Division 2 and 3.

Every year there are grad assistants or position coaches at bigger schools that are looking for opportunities. Do we even try to lure them to Athens?

OUcats82
General User

Member Since: 1/9/2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 1,827

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 1:03:19 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

The pedigree does not bother me so much as the results that come from the coach's work. The early results are underwhelming but year one is not always the best indicator of long term yields.

In general I prefer doing a national search, making sure that you exhausted all of your options. It could very well be the best candidate is just up the highway/down the hall (see Ducks, Oregon-Kelly to Helfrich). Other times it spells disaster (which in our case a prime example is spelled K-N-O-R-R.) .

Last Edited: 10/27/2014 1:04:16 PM by OUcats82

Ohio-The State University

BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,478

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 1:04:11 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

A position coach at one of those "bigger" schools could take as much as a 75% pay cut coming to OHIO.

bobcatsquared
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 5,042

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 1:08:19 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Interesting. The guy with over 4,700 posts challenging the guy with over 5,400 posts to "stop it."

There's something to be said about quality over quantity (says the guy with neither).

Last Edited: 10/27/2014 1:09:07 PM by bobcatsquared

C Money
General User

Member Since: 8/28/2010
Post Count: 3,420

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 1:22:21 PM

Since it was mentioned.....The current HC at Colorado School of Mines (Bob Stitt) is one of the most innovative offensive minds in football. Here's Bill Connelly's
profile of Stitt:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/10/17/69934...

That's exactly the kind of guy a MAC school should target for an OC (or even HC) position.

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,067

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 1:27:51 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

A position coach at one of those "bigger" schools could take as much as a 75% pay cut coming to OHIO.

Very true. Also, with Isphording, he had the advantage that they knew him, and know, or should know, what his potential contribution is.

In general I think Solich has done an outstanding job over his career in choosing assistants. Considering that he hasn't had a ton of turnover, the list of people he has hired is fairly short. Here are a few of his former hires:
1. Craig Bohl - His first hire for defensive coordinator at Nebraska, Craig Bohl went on to great success at North Dakota State, and is now at Wyoming.
2. Bo Pelini - His second hire for defensive coordinator at Nebraska was Bo Pelini, now at Nebraska.
3. Lance Leipold - His first recruiting coordinator at Nebraska, Lance is now head coach at Wisconsin-Whitewater, where he has an incredible record of 100-6, and multiple Division III national championships.
4. Scott Downing - His last recruiting coordinator at Nebraska became head football coach at U. Northern Colorado, now is the Assistant Head Coach at Tulsa.
5. Derek Mason - now head coach at Vanderbilt

As a result of this track record, I'm inclined to give his choices some deference, especially when it is someone he should know well because they were on his staff once before.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Paul Graham
General User

Member Since: 1/18/2005
Location: The Plains, OH
Post Count: 1,424

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 1:34:59 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

A position coach at one of those "bigger" schools could take as much as a 75% pay cut coming to OHIO.

Sure, lower ranking OSU assistants make over 250k...is that true at Northwestern or other Big 10 schools? What about at Cinci, Pitt, etc...? And moving from a position coach to a coordinator position is a step up, that should be worth something.

This is the same mentality that keeps us where we are. PJ Fleck doesn't think that way...that's why he'll be kicking out butts until he moves on to a better job.

Successful people figure out what they want, and they go and get it.

Last Edited: 10/27/2014 1:36:49 PM by Paul Graham

Mark Lembright '85
General User

Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Highland Heights, OH
Post Count: 2,447

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 1:57:59 PM

This is the same mentality that keeps us where we are. PJ Fleck doesn't think that way...that's why he'll be kicking out butts until he moves on to a better job. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, and a year ago at this time we all thought Fleck was a crazy idiot and were glad he wasn't coaching at Ohio.

I think the point about salaries for assistant coaches is a very good one. Heck, Frank himself is one of the lowest paid coaches in FBS division football and all I read up here in Cleveland are complaints that he's the highest paid employee at Ohio University. As I've said before, it's going to cost Ohio a whole lot more $$$$ than most are willing to spend just to keep pace with the Joneses. And please don't tell me Fleck has the same foundation to work with at WMU as Frank. Fleck has more to work with-WMU's stadium is larger, newer and nicer, their IPF is larger and is in the process of being renovated, and they just renovated their locker rooms.

Caveat: with all that being said, I still don't see how Fleck is able to have recruiting classes that are ranked in the top 30 in all of FBS football. Is his program above board? We'll see, I guess.

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 3:05:22 PM

L.C. wrote:

. . . As a result of this track record, I'm inclined to give his choices some deference, especially when it is someone he should know well because they were on his staff once before.

"Deference" -- now there's a word not often seen on fan boards, not even on this most erudite of sports boards, let alone actually practiced. ;-)

Bcat2
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 4,295

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 3:15:00 PM

L.C. wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

A position coach at one of those "bigger" schools could take as much as a 75% pay cut coming to OHIO.

So now the coaches don't have enough stars? Really? Really? Current staff has worked at Georgia, WVU, Washington State, Florida, Boise State, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowas State, etc.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Paul Graham
General User

Member Since: 1/18/2005
Location: The Plains, OH
Post Count: 1,424

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 3:25:20 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

A position coach at one of those "bigger" schools could take as much as a 75% pay cut coming to OHIO.

So now the coaches don't have enough stars? Really? Really? Current staff has worked at Georgia, WVU, Washington State, Florida, Boise State, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowas State, etc.

I'm sure you loved Isophording's 2010 recruiting class, Bcat.

Mike Johnson
General User

Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,707

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 3:30:44 PM

During these last 10 seasons - which clearly exceeded my expectations when Coach Solich was hired - Ohio has recorded not a genuine offensive breakout season that would match the kind achieved by NIU or Toledo.

And if my memory isn't failing me again, I think Ohio's most prolific scoring season during those same 10 seasons just about matches Grobe's best with his triple option. I seem to recall that both of those seasons saw Ohio average about 31 ppg.

Yes, I'd like to see a season when Ohio averages 35 or more ppg - and with a stout D.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

Cats2014
General User

Member Since: 3/29/2014
Post Count: 101

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 4:24:56 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

It all comes down to TALENT, not coaching. We could run off tackle all day with a 6'1, 245 bull fullback, couldn't we ? Especially if we could just audible if the defense is loading up against the run play and throw to our 6'4 wide receiver. We just don't have those kids on our team. So, if we would run those plays if we had TALENT, what should we do ? We should go get that talent. We should put time and energy into recruiting. What happened to the lost art of recruiting ? Do our coaches go out and hit the pavement and get across the table from mom and pop and look their son in the eye and tell him what a great addition he would be in green and white? Do they follow up the visit with a phone call when they get back to the office ? Do they write hand written notes every week ? If we are spending 10 hours a week on recruiting, we should spend 20. If we are spending 20, we should spend 40. THAT is how we turn this thing around. Get out on the road, all over the country, get into living rooms. SELL our product !! SELL Ohio University !! SELL Frank Solich !!! SELL SELL SELL !!!!!

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,067

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 4:27:22 PM

Mike Johnson wrote:

Scouring the Ohio record book, highest Average yards/game offense:
1. 445.8 2011
2. 444.8 2012
3. 418.1 2000
4. 415.7 1968
5. 379.4 2013
6. 365.4 1953
7. 364.5 2007
8. 361.4 2008

Five of the top 8 are Solich years, and the 2 1/2 years where the offense was "totally unacceptable" includes the second and 5th best ever. So far this year Ohio is averaging 375.6 yards/game, and it will probably improve over the last three games considering who the foes are, so it will probably be one of the five best in Ohio history, when it's all done. In fairness, yardages are up across the board, and Ohio is actually in the bottom half of the MAC, so this is meaningless.

Higest average points/game doesn't seem to be included, but you can guess at the leaders from the highest points/season, which is probably OK since the old 9-10 game seasons had less points scored. Heck, there were 2 years back in the old era where the defense gave up less than an average of 3 points a game (1929, 1897).
1. 1968 37.6 ppg
2. 1929 33.6 (note: this team also gave up only .7 points/game)
3. 2012 31.7
4. 2000 31.2
5. 2011 30.5
6. 2007 30.5
7. 2010 27.5
8. 2013 27.4

This year, of course, points/game is awful because Ohio hasn't been effective at finishing drives. They did a much better job of that in the second half against WMU, so here's hoping the rest of the year goes better.

I'd say your memory is dead on as to the points in 2000, though.

Cats2014 wrote:

... Do they write hand written notes every week ?...

per this thread, apparently yes, they do:
http://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPa...

They also text and tweet the kids, and yes, visit them, too, as per NCAA guidelines.

Last Edited: 10/27/2014 4:33:59 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Mike Johnson
General User

Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,707

Status: Offline

RE: New assistant coaches

Posted: 10/27/2014 7:28:26 PM

L.C. wrote:

Mike Johnson wrote:

Cats2014 wrote:

... Do they write hand written notes every week ?...

per this thread, apparently yes, they do:
http://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPa...

They also text and tweet the kids, and yes, visit them, too, as per NCAA guidelines.

Nice to see that, for once, my memory was "dead on." 2000 when Grobe's team averaged 31.2 ppg also was a year when Ohio had a stout defense. It was one of only 4 or 5 FBS teams to not give up more than 28 points in any game.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

Showing Replies:	1 - 24 of 24 Posts
Jump to Page:	1

View Other 'Ohio Football' Topics

There are 318 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com

316 Guests
2 Registered Users:
	ohio9704, Victory

There are no other users looking at this page.