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Topic: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Topic: Is Frank loyal or weak?

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Kevin Finnegan
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Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/14/2014 2:38:18 PM

When the announcers yesterday made the now mandatory declaration that Frank and his two assistants are the only group in D-IA to be together for the last nine years, I got to thinking. Is Frank loyal or afraid to make difficult decisions?

What has been Frank's most difficult decision at OHIO? He hasn't let any of his coaches go, no matter how they have performed. He's never really made a controversial move with players either, never benched a player due to attitude. Last year, many noticed that the team was not on the same page, yet nobody suffered. Fans have mentioned that Ryan Boykins was a problem, but he still played (though not consistently). T2 seemed to outwardly disagree with the coaching staff, yet he never was punished.

A manager or boss who doesn't consequence people for their indiscretions is not loyal, they're considered weak. Is that Frank? Has he made any real hard decisions at OHIO? Would he ever be willing to part with his coordinators, either of them? Or is he too afraid to make a decision?

L.C.
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/14/2014 5:26:02 PM

Frank has been known to do all of those things in the past. At Nebraska he replaced several assistants when they failed to perform, and had star players that he kicked off the team (e.g. Richie Incognito, DeAngelo Evans). As for the specific question regarding assistants, I think you could ask the same questions about Jim Grobe, who also kept his same assistants, year after year.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Cat-staxx
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 1:47:57 AM

Albin should've been let go in 2010

ayfkm
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 6:00:16 AM

Frank did not kick Richie Incognito or DeAngelo Evans off the team. Bill Callahan indefinitely suspended Richie and he eventually quit and DeAngelo quit too. He asked to come back but the team voted to not let him return.

Frank did fire Craig Bohl, but only after he was told to make some changes or lose his own job. And while a few coaches like Milt Tenopir and Dan Young "retired", the fact was, they quit because they couldn't stand working for him anymore.

L.C.
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 8:41:03 AM

My apologies with regards to Incognito. Frank did suspend him, and sent him for anger management therepy, but I forgot that he did later reinstate him, and that it was Callahan who ended up suspending him again. I would agree that Solich consulted the team in not allowing Evans to return, but in the end it was Frank's decision to make, and he did not allow Evans back on the team.

As for the coaches that Frank replaced, there is nothing to be gained in rehashing that here. All were good coaches, but circumstances dictated that changes needed to be made. Tenopir continued to be honored as a coach, and Bohl regrouped and went on to great success at NDSU.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 8:55:52 AM

This still begs the question, has he made any tough decisions at OHIO? Honestly, I don't care about Nebraska. We have the second-highest paid coaching staff in the conference (behind Akron, who made a splash with Bowden and Amato). Are we getting our money's worth? Our two assistant coaches are among the highest paid in the conference at over $125,000/yr (not to mention their car allowance). For what it's worth, the average professor at OHIO makes $103,757 (2013 numbers).

BillyTheCat
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 9:28:45 AM

ayfkm wrote:

+1, I love it when someone brings actual facts to the table.

giacomo
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 12:39:20 PM

Are we getting our moneys worth? I have to laugh when I read this kind of stuff. Just enjoy the games, as it is a way to pass the time, not life and death. I'd like to see how many would hold up if their boss started asking the same questions about them. These guys can coach and have proven it.

5yearplan
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 1:09:11 PM

I think Frank has been a boon for this program. Has he been flawless? No, but overall I think he has done well. Personally I think the fact that we've had success and retained staff is a positive and not a negative.

Like the fountain at Alden says: Ohio University the best four OR FIVE years of your life.

perimeterpost
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 2:56:43 PM

Frank won 66 games in his first 9 seasons at Ohio. Here's how that win total compares to other teams in the MAC (plus Marshall) during that time frame-

9 Seasons (2005-2013)
75 NIU
66 Ohio
63 CMU
60 Toledo
59 Ball St
56 BGSU
52 WMU
50 Marshall
44 Kent St
38 Buffalo
36 Miami
32 Akron
24 EMU

and here's how Ohio compared to the same group for their previous 65 wins.

21 Seasons (1984-2004)
153 Toledo
136 BGSU
134 Miami
121 WMU
107 CMU
106 Ball St
103 NIU
101 Akron
85 EMU
79 Marshall
65 Ohio
59 Kent St
9 Buffalo

Ohio won more games in Frank's first 9 seasons than they won in the previous 21. Is that a satisfactory level of improvement? In the 9 seasons Frank has been at Ohio only NIU has had more wins, is being second in the MAC in wins satisfactory to you? Of course we all want to win every game and we all desperately want to win a MACC, but overall, are you satisfied with the work Frank and his staff have done over the past 9 seasons? If not, what would the win total have to be to change your opinion of Frank and his coaching staff?

And specifically in regards to this season- knowing the number of record setting starters we were replacing on offense what was your expectation of our record after playing a Kent St team that had beat us 4 of the previous 5, a much improved SEC team, and a 10 win Marshall team with a 4 year starter at QB, all on the road? Did you expect a record greater than 1-2 and if so what was your expectation?

Last Edited: 9/15/2014 2:58:26 PM by perimeterpost

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

cincybobcat99
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 3:23:55 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

If there is a knock on Frank, I believe it would on the recruiting side. Despite having the second most wins the last nine years, Ohio's recruiting continues to be middle of the pack. Some of that may be by design (e.g., tough nosed undervalued kids that fit Frank personality), but I would love to see a couple years of highly-touted recruits.

L.C.
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 4:33:19 PM

cincybobcat99 wrote:

There is definitely a difference between the recent classes under Haines as compared to the earlier classes under Germano. The classes under Germano had only a few players recruited by other schools, and a lot of under-the-radar players. Under Haines most players are recruited by other schools as well, some by many schools, and only a few are totally under the radar. Under Germano there were few early commits, and the classes were assembled from around the country in December and January. Under Haines most of the verbals are early now, and most of them are from Ohio.

Will there be a difference? Will the difference be an improvement, or will it be worse? That remains to be seen. The teams from 2009-2013 were made up primarily from Germano recruits. The 2014-16 teams will be Haines recruits. (There are still a handful of Isphording recruits this year, too, Carpenter, Cochran, Ingol, and Kristoff.) On paper, the Haines recruits look better, but they need to prove it on the field.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

BobcatPride
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 4:37:51 PM

cincybobcat99 wrote:

perimeterpost wrote:

cincybobcat99, in taking your thought to the next step, don't you have to conclude that the COACHING JOB Solich and his staff have done over the past nine years is all the more impressive? If the players they've had coming in are "middle of the pack", but the performance of those players on the field has led to the second-most wins in the conference (as outlined by perimeterpost) they must be coaching them effectively. They're maximizing the potential of what they've had to work with.

Their abilities to recruit should be evaluated, but seperately.

cincybobcat99
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 4:49:19 PM

BobcatPride wrote:

cincybobcat99 wrote:

perimeterpost wrote:

I think Frank and Company have done a heck of a job coaching...I still remember the lean years in the early 90's. :) But I also think recruiting is part of the game in college football, I don't believe you should separate the two. Honestly, I think the quality of the recruits are getting better (for both Ohio and MAC), but a couple playmakers would make this team look a lot better. Hopefully, the indoor practice facility will help with recruiting.

L.C.
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 5:02:39 PM

cincybobcat99 wrote:

... Hopefully, the indoor practice facility will help with recruiting.

It's really been since the IPF was a firm plan that we've seen the jump in early verbals, and mostly in-state recruits. Will that mean better players, and better results? We'll have to wait and see, but maybe they are better players, and maybe that's the reason so many true freshmen are being played suddenly (4 last year, 9 this year).

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 5:18:52 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

Frank won 66 games in his first 9 seasons at Ohio. Here's how that win total compares to other teams in the MAC during that time frame-

9 Seasons (2005-2013)
75 NIU (MAC CHAMPIONS--2011, 2012)
66 Ohio
63 CMU (MAC CHAMPIONS--2006, 2007, 2009)
60 Toledo
59 Ball St
56 BGSU (MAC CHAMPIONS--2013)
52 WMU
44 Kent St
38 Buffalo (MAC CHAMPIONS--2008)
36 Miami (MAC CHAMPIONS--2010)
32 Akron (MAC CHAMPIONS--2005)
24 EMU

To look at this more in-depth, we are one of six schools who have not won a MAC Championship during the past nine years. Go back one year further, Toledo won in 2004, so that would just leave Ball St, WMU, Kent State and EMU in our company.

I, too, think Frank has done a fantastic job during his time here. That's not the question I posed. I wondered, instead, if he can make difficult decisions. There's nothing in his past (here) that shows he can, or will.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 5:26:26 PM

Wait a minute. I'm sorry but the fine job of turning us around IS NOT NOW RELEVANT. It was well done. But let's talk now.

And the now is that this offense has significantly underperformed over the last 20 some games. And I believe the underperformance is not from lack of talent; it's mostly from defect in scheme and use of talent.

How many decades is it going to be before we see a two-back set (maybe with qb under center), especially near the goal line. Might've helped on our first drive on Saturday.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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perimeterpost
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 7:52:12 PM

finnOhio wrote:

perimeterpost wrote:

ok, so let's look at the last 9 years like this-

# of appearances in the MACC since 2005-

5 NIU (2005 L, 2010 L, 2011 W, 2012 W, 2013 L)
3 CMU (2006 W, 2007 W, 2009 W)
3 Ohio (2006 L, 2009 L, 2011 L)
2 Miami (2007 L, 2010 W)
1 Akron (2005 W)
1 Ball St (2008 L)
1 BGSU (2013 W)
1 Buffalo (2008 W)
1 Kent St (2012 L)

Ohio is 0-3 in the MACC, but they also faced the other two most successful programs over the last 9 years in the title game. So are you saying Frank not winning a MACC shows he can't make tough decisions? If so then what does it say about Frank that he's tied for 2nd with most Division championships? Did he do that 3 times without having to make a difficult decision?

If you feel winning a MACC trumps total wins then how many of our total wins would you sacrifice for a MACC. Would you give up 28 wins to be like Buffalo? Would you give up 30 wins to be like Fiami? What's your price?

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

bobcat695
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 8:27:09 PM

1968. Personally I don't care about how many disappointing drives I've made home from Detroit. Just getting to that game is worthless rhetoric to me at this point. I'd like to leave that city just once in my lifetime with a smile on my face. I'm 41 and it has yet to happen.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Casper71
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 11:39:54 PM

Personally, I give FS&Co the benefit of the doubt. I really think they can coach and develop players. Heck, they've been to the National Championship level. My knock on them is they cannot recruit enough "star guys" to Athens to win a championship...at least they have not in the first 9 years. You can only go so far with under the radar overachievers and late bloomers in my opinion. To get to that next level we need more better players.

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/15/2014 11:59:56 PM

Honestly with how bad our facilities are I think Frank has done a great job with recruiting. Plus if we look back. How many KEY players have we gotten from his Nebraska connection. No other coach could have gotten some of the players he has. Our name brand and facilities are getting better so I expect the recruits to as well.

Beat Michigan
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/16/2014 11:26:22 AM

perimeterpost wrote:

21 Seasons (1984-2004)
153 Toledo
136 BGSU
134 Miami
121 WMU
107 CMU
106 Ball St
103 NIU
101 Akron
85 EMU
79 Marshall
65 Ohio
59 Kent St
9 Buffalo

From 1984 through 1996 Marshall had 125 wins. I assume that 79 total only includes their time in the MAC from 97-2004. From 84 to 96 Marshall also had a 3-1 record vs the Cats. Didn't check all the schools records but did look at Marshall's because I remember hearing they were suppose to have been the winningest team in college football in the 90's and 79 seemed low for a total from 84-2004.

But I agree with the point I think you are trying to make. Would you rather have the OHIO of today or the one before Frank. Thats obvious I would take Franks teams everyday of the week. Some people don't remember the past. Some years you have more experienced players and some years there is a learning curve. I think this team will be fine and grow alot over the next several weeks and still be in there competing for an EAST title.

Ohio69
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/16/2014 11:27:16 AM

Perimeterpost's list of wins pre and post Solich should give all the complainers pause. And we've played for 3 MACCs. And all the bowl games. And have some dudes in the NFL. And a new facility which should help sustain the program.

And, its been fun. Way more fun than prior to Solich's arrival.

Careful about the grass being greener folks.

Every team has some tweaks that can be made. But, this program is on very solid footing right now. Lets not get too crazy about big changes needing to be made.

(That said, I'd like to see more JD Sprague....)

Go Ohio!

Last Edited: 9/16/2014 11:28:24 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

BillyTheCat
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/16/2014 11:31:15 AM

Without a doubt Coach Solich is a loyal guy, and he puts faith in his guys to do their jobs, and for the most part they have been very successful at that over their tenure here. As for the next level though, that has been elusive.

L.C.
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RE: Is Frank loyal or weak?

Posted: 9/16/2014 12:37:53 PM

The thing people need to be careful about is thinking that the program has stagnated. That implies that no changes are happening. If you think about it, you realize that many changes have been made, and that changes continue to be made:
1. Ohio changed the offensive blocking scheme from traditional blocking to zone blocking in about 2007.
2. In 2011 Ohio modified the offense to be like Troy, and since then has tinkered with it, particularly adding speed option to it. This year they added a new co-coordinator, so I expect we'll see new wrinkles and tendencies emerge as we go forward.
3. This year they changed the defense to implement some of the Michigan State quarters system.
4. Ohio has changed how they recruit, getting offers out earlier, and going after more Ohio kids, and relying less on last minute class filling from places around the country.
5. Ongoing facilities improvements, recently including the IPF and Locker Room
6. Changes to motivational methods, including Navy Seals training in the off-season

When you think of someone that is over the hill, or who has lost their fire, they tend to coast along doing the same thing, year after year. I don't see that here. I see constant efforts to improve. I also see assistants trying to change things and improve, too.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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