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Topic:  RE: Its Over

Topic:  RE: Its Over
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/14/2014 7:51:12 PM 
ou79 wrote:
So I guess for some of you being mediocre year in and year out is our goal. We have hit the glass ceiling and as long as we win 6, 7 or 8 games a year AGAINST SOME OF THE WORST TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY, then hey, we really had a good year.


No, but I think winning 6, 7 or 8 games this year would be a good accomplishment considering this was all but certain to be a rebuilding year.
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/14/2014 7:53:37 PM 
105-the only difference between those coaches/staffs and ours is this staff has not won a MACC game over the last 9 years! Those guys had great years more often than not. That is not the case in Athens the last 2-3 years.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/14/2014 8:03:39 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
105-the only difference between those coaches/staffs and ours is this staff has not won a MACC game over the last 9 years! Those guys had great years more often than not. That is not the case in Athens the last 2-3 years.

It wasn't the case in 2007-8, either, but 2009-12 were pretty good years. I think that 2011 and 2012 "should have" been MAC Championship years, but 2011 was a fail in the second half of the championship game, and 2012 the team was destroyed by injuries. 2013 we can debate what went wrong, but I still think 2014 is a team that will continue to improve as the year goes on, and that 2015-16 will be very good years.

In the end, though, it doesn't matter what we think on this topic. I personally think Solich will retire after a good season, and given that I think 2015-16 will be good seasons, I think one or the other will be his last. Then Ohio can move on, and get back on the normal MAC coaching roller coaster.

Last Edited: 9/14/2014 8:30:13 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/14/2014 8:09:16 PM 
I appreciate your optimism L.C. It's just that reality sees nothing different in this program the next year or two than what we have seen the last 9. Again, sorry. And I really do hope I am wrong.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/14/2014 8:34:45 PM 
At this point we'll just have to watch and see how the season develops. Still, those that say nothing ever changes are clearly wrong. We saw some changes to things they did off-season, such as the Navy Seals Training, and we see an entirely new defensive scheme this year. The latter obviously did not work out well against Marshall, but I expect that the coaches will make some changes to it as we go along.

Last Edited: 9/14/2014 8:38:25 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/14/2014 8:59:53 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
105-the only difference between those coaches/staffs and ours is this staff has not won a MACC game over the last 9 years! Those guys had great years more often than not. That is not the case in Athens the last 2-3 years.

It wasn't the case in 2007-8, either, but 2009-12 were pretty good years. I think that 2011 and 2012 "should have" been MAC Championship years, but 2011 was a fail in the second half of the championship game, and 2012 the team was destroyed by injuries. 2013 we can debate what went wrong, but I still think 2014 is a team that will continue to improve as the year goes on, and that 2015-16 will be very good years.

In the end, though, it doesn't matter what we think on this topic. I personally think Solich will retire after a good season, and given that I think 2015-16 will be good seasons, I think one or the other will be his last. Then Ohio can move on, and get back on the normal MAC coaching roller coaster.


L.C. check me on this. The last time Nebraska won a conference championship was, I think, 1999. Their coach was Frank Solich. Then as Randy Cross said from the booth commenting on the Marshall game, they got really stupid and let him go. Nebraska has not been a champion since coach Solich. I doubt there is anyone in Ohio who wants a MACC more than coach Solich. Well, mabe D. Vick. Really like Vick. He will be a winner.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/14/2014 9:08:19 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
I appreciate your optimism L.C. It's just that reality sees nothing different in this program the next year or two than what we have seen the last 9. Again, sorry. And I really do hope I am wrong.


Relieve my confusion, "nothing different...than what we have seen the last nine years" -- what have we seen the last nine years? Consistent winning - versus a pathetic past.

1950's - 50 - 39 .561
1960's - 60 - 38 .612 (included a winless 10-loss season)
1970's - 45 - 60 .429
1980's - 34 - 73 .315
1990's - 34 - 74 .315
2000 - 2004 - 17 - 39 .304

Frank's years - 67 - 52 .563
last five years 43 - 24 .641 -- including 5 straight bowl games.

Is Frank nearing the end of his tenure - of course. But the wheels are coming off talk seems a little absurd - and given our history -- comical.
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perimeterpost
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/14/2014 9:44:13 PM 
ou79 wrote:
So I guess for some of you being mediocre year in and year out is our goal. We have hit the glass ceiling and as long as we win 6, 7 or 8 games a year AGAINST SOME OF THE WORST TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY, then hey, we really had a good year.


Yes, you figured us out. Being mediocre is the goal. We're so sick and tired of success after experiencing the winningest 5 year stretch in our program's 120 year history that we just want to sink back into mediocrity. I miss the good old days when we used to win 6,7 or 8 games a year, year in and year out. So mediocre. So boring. So predictable. Ohio's bowl eligible again? Ughh. Amiright?

And I thought you screamed a really good point about how our schedule, which is mostly made up of conference mates, has some bad teams. If we were real winners we'd join a conference with better teams like the B1G or the SEC, but apparently we're too happy with being mediocre to make the move.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/14/2014 10:22:52 PM 
cc cat wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
I appreciate your optimism L.C. It's just that reality sees nothing different in this program the next year or two than what we have seen the last 9. Again, sorry. And I really do hope I am wrong.


Relieve my confusion, "nothing different...than what we have seen the last nine years" -- what have we seen the last nine years? Consistent winning - versus a pathetic past.

1950's - 50 - 39 .561
1960's - 60 - 38 .612 (included a winless 10-loss season)
1970's - 45 - 60 .429
1980's - 34 - 73 .315
1990's - 34 - 74 .315
2000 - 2004 - 17 - 39 .304

Frank's years - 67 - 52 .563
last five years 43 - 24 .641 -- including 5 straight bowl games.

Is Frank nearing the end of his tenure - of course. But the wheels are coming off talk seems a little absurd - and given our history -- comical.


+1
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/15/2014 9:56:35 AM 
Which gets back to the concept this is as good as it will ever get for this institution. This staff, and maybe no staff, will do much better given our lat 50 year history in football.

And, seriously, half the teams in major college football go to Bowl games nowadays. What 5-6 MAC teams went bowling last year? In the good old days there was only one Bowl for the MAC. So, to me, going to 5 straight bowls in this environment is not much to hang your hat on.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/15/2014 10:10:52 AM 
Casper71 wrote:
Which gets back to the concept this is as good as it will ever get for this institution. This staff, and maybe no staff, will do much better given our lat 50 year history in football.

And, seriously, half the teams in major college football go to Bowl games nowadays. What 5-6 MAC teams went bowling last year? In the good old days there was only one Bowl for the MAC. So, to me, going to 5 straight bowls in this environment is not much to hang your hat on.


Perhaps - I disagree, but perhaps. Though there is absolutely no indication that is the case.

FYI - since we do not control the bowl environment, you're good old days are irrelevant. What we can do, which is constant through the years, is to compare to our peers.

Question which I do not have time to explore. What teams from non P5 conferences have gone to 5 straight bowl games? Which teams overall have done so? Within the MAC - two. Ohio University from the East and Northern Illinois from the West. That's it. And no, we are not at the Northern level.

What we can all agree on is that Frank (barring some unexpected indiscretion), with the resurrection he has accomplished for this program, can, will, and should go out when he decides - and certainly through his current contract. Any move now would shatter any and all equity that the head coaching position at Ohio University has now attained.

Last Edited: 9/15/2014 1:14:27 PM by cc-cat
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/15/2014 1:58:39 PM 
Yes so instead of complaining let's enjoy these years while they last because based on our history it may be another 50 years before we see it again. This is a golden age of OU football. It won't last forever
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/15/2014 2:43:43 PM 
Well, at least we have 2 out of the bottom three teams in the country on our schedule this year:

126. Idaho (0-2, 0-1) | 127. Eastern Michigan (1-2, 0-0) | 128. Miami (Ohio) (0-3, 0-0)

BTW, Miami sucks...
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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 9/15/2014 2:56:00 PM 
Frank has our program at a point where it is a solid program that wins more than loses. For that I am grateful as I was part of a modest sized crowd who rushed the field over a 34-31 win over Buffalo my junior year to break a long losing streak. Buffalo then was not Buffalo now.

Speaking of Buffalo, I kind of feel like our program is similar to the early 90s Bills. On the cusp of championships but never coming through. Had we not folded in the second half of the 2011 MACC I think our frustration would be significantly lower.

It frustrates me that in less than the past ten years every team in our division other than Kent State (and I will include UMass although they are just on an extended layover) and us has won the MAC in football. My frustration is rooted in pure jealousy, not some kind of superiority complex.

Just win...but win with class...win with honor.

Ohio-The State University
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Paul Graham
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/4/2014 7:29:51 PM 
Paul Graham wrote:
Well folks, we are witnessing the disintegration of the Solich regime. No quarterback, no weapons at WR/RB and a terribly inexperienced/ineffective offensive front.

The way I see it, we have at least two seasons before we can be competitive with anyone besides the dregs of college football.

I've been hinting at it for a while, but it seems obvious to me that this staff has run its course. A decade coaching a MAC team is plenty. We need a fresh start. Thoughts?


BUMP
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/4/2014 10:06:37 PM 
Paul Graham wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
Well folks, we are witnessing the disintegration of the Solich regime. No quarterback, no weapons at WR/RB and a terribly inexperienced/ineffective offensive front.

The way I see it, we have at least two seasons before we can be competitive with anyone besides the dregs of college football.

I've been hinting at it for a while, but it seems obvious to me that this staff has run its course. A decade coaching a MAC team is plenty. We need a fresh start. Thoughts?


BUMP


Did you BUMP your head?
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/4/2014 10:25:18 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
Well folks, we are witnessing the disintegration of the Solich regime. No quarterback, no weapons at WR/RB and a terribly inexperienced/ineffective offensive front.

The way I see it, we have at least two seasons before we can be competitive with anyone besides the dregs of college football.

I've been hinting at it for a while, but it seems obvious to me that this staff has run its course. A decade coaching a MAC team is plenty. We need a fresh start. Thoughts?


BUMP


Did you BUMP your head?


If we change coaches it will be at least two seasons before we're competitive with anyone besides the dregs of college football.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/4/2014 10:45:32 PM 
Some would argue could well be longer if we don't change something.

And don't overestimate where we were at the peak of the current regime.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/4/2014 11:22:36 PM 
Somebody please pass the green kool aid my way. Even after watching the debacle today, I will be in Athens for Homecoming next week like a lot of you rooting on dear old Ohio. Like the good old days, I will leave after the 110 performs because the prodeuct on the field will be licking their wounds.

It won't be like the late 70s to 90s were we had NO HOPE at all. It's just I think that going into year 10 this staff has done all it can, it has gotten as good as it gets and based on the last 25 games it is on the way out with both good and bad memories.

Oh, I really do hope they prove me wrong!
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/5/2014 10:26:43 PM 
Pataskala, that is where we are now. Competitive with only the dregs. The last 25 games have shown that.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/6/2014 7:59:26 AM 
Casper71 wrote:
Pataskala, that is where we are now. Competitive with only the dregs. The last 25 games have shown that.


You aint kidding. Since the beginning of 2012, which is 32 games played, Ohio has only beaten FOUR opponents that finished with winning records.
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/6/2014 10:11:15 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Pataskala, that is where we are now. Competitive with only the dregs. The last 25 games have shown that.


You aint kidding. Since the beginning of 2012, which is 32 games played, Ohio has only beaten FOUR opponents that finished with winning records.


The 32 games played is incredibly misleading since only 12 of the last 32 were against teams with winning records. OHIO could've won all of their games against teams with winning records and that number would only be 37.5% of 32.

OHIO won 40% of games against teams with winning records in 2012. (2 out of 5)

OHIO won 40% of games against teams with winning records in 2013. (2 out of 5)

And this year we've come up win-less in two tries. But remember the season is incomplete; is drawing an arbitrary line after 6 games a valuable measurement?

Is winning 40% of your games against teams with a winning record in a complete season a failure or success? Well I have no idea because you didn't provide anything to compare our 40% win rate to in 2012 and 2013.

Which of our peers win >40% and which peers win <40%?

BTW

Of those wins OHIO beat:
8 win Penn State
8 win UL-Monroe
9 win North Texas
10 win Marshall

Last Edited: 10/6/2014 10:12:54 AM by The Situation
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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/6/2014 11:06:38 AM 
The Situation wrote:
But remember the season is incomplete; is drawing an arbitrary line after 6 games a valuable measurement?


Eh, it's the halfway point in the season. That seems to be as good a point to evaluate progress in the season as any.

And that's what we were told to expect: progress. The team is young, be patient, we'll develop them.

So the question is, what are the signs of progress halfway through the season?
(A) Our starting QB is hurt, and the guy we were told was almost good enough to start has not looked that good in the 2 and a half games he's been the guy.
(B) The OL had looked improved through 5 games, but fell apart in game 6. Is CMU's front seven that dominant? A not-good Syracuse team and a bad Kansas team didn't have the trouble our offense did.
(C) Ouellette is the only RB that has looked the part of a starter. Behind him are several specialists we're trying to use as every down backs.
(D) WR and TE development has been hindered by poor QB play.
(E) Defensive front 7 has been mixed. D Line has not been as impressive as many of us hoped it would be, but the linebackers have been much better.
(F) Secondary has been burned consistently in all of our games.
(G) Special teams has been markedly better than last year.

Based on that, I would say that outside of linebackers and special teams, the trend line is flat to down.
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/6/2014 11:34:47 AM 
The Situation wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Pataskala, that is where we are now. Competitive with only the dregs. The last 25 games have shown that.


You aint kidding. Since the beginning of 2012, which is 32 games played, Ohio has only beaten FOUR opponents that finished with winning records.


The 32 games played is incredibly misleading since only 12 of the last 32 were against teams with winning records. OHIO could've won all of their games against teams with winning records and that number would only be 37.5% of 32.

OHIO won 40% of games against teams with winning records in 2012. (2 out of 5)

OHIO won 40% of games against teams with winning records in 2013. (2 out of 5)

And this year we've come up win-less in two tries. But remember the season is incomplete; is drawing an arbitrary line after 6 games a valuable measurement?

Is winning 40% of your games against teams with a winning record in a complete season a failure or success? Well I have no idea because you didn't provide anything to compare our 40% win rate to in 2012 and 2013.

Which of our peers win >40% and which peers win <40%?

BTW

Of those wins OHIO beat:
8 win Penn State
8 win UL-Monroe
9 win North Texas
10 win Marshall



I made an error. I just chopped up some data using excel and realized OHIO was 2 out of 6 in 2013, or 33%, instead of 40%.

I apologize.

I will report my results about win percentage vs winning records in a different thread because I feel it's a stand alone topic.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Its Over
   Posted: 10/6/2014 12:15:06 PM 
The Situation wrote:
The Situation wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Pataskala, that is where we are now. Competitive with only the dregs. The last 25 games have shown that.


You aint kidding. Since the beginning of 2012, which is 32 games played, Ohio has only beaten FOUR opponents that finished with winning records.


The 32 games played is incredibly misleading since only 12 of the last 32 were against teams with winning records. OHIO could've won all of their games against teams with winning records and that number would only be 37.5% of 32.

OHIO won 40% of games against teams with winning records in 2012. (2 out of 5)

OHIO won 40% of games against teams with winning records in 2013. (2 out of 5)

And this year we've come up win-less in two tries. But remember the season is incomplete; is drawing an arbitrary line after 6 games a valuable measurement?

Is winning 40% of your games against teams with a winning record in a complete season a failure or success? Well I have no idea because you didn't provide anything to compare our 40% win rate to in 2012 and 2013.

Which of our peers win >40% and which peers win <40%?

BTW

Of those wins OHIO beat:
8 win Penn State
8 win UL-Monroe
9 win North Texas
10 win Marshall



I made an error. I just chopped up some data using excel and realized OHIO was 2 out of 6 in 2013, or 33%, instead of 40%.

I apologize.

I will report my results about win percentage vs winning records in a different thread because I feel it's a stand alone topic.


You bring up some valid points. I had originally intended to go back through the years and show the entire Solich era (at work, didn't have time). So of course the numbers will be skewed. My original thought was that the wins over teams with winning records has declined over the years. But the more I thought about it, maybe that's not true. It's possible every year is in the 30-40% range. Maybe that's just something Ohio is good at right now. It can beat the teams they are supposed to, but can't beat the ones they want/need to.

Kinda sounds like the Reds...
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